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APM measurements changes in 1.4.0 - Page 28

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Macpo
Profile Joined September 2010
453 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-21 10:24:22
September 21 2011 10:22 GMT
#541
ONe thing I am wondering: is camera hotkeys use included in APM ? Cause for instance, when i spam with camera hotkeys in the beginning, Sc2 gears often tells me "low apm" which seems to imply that it is not (which i find a bit weird).

"Courage consists, however, in agreeing to flee rather than live tranquilly and hypocritically in false refuges." G. Deleuze
Dali.
Profile Joined June 2010
New Zealand689 Posts
September 21 2011 10:24 GMT
#542
I've dropped from 140-160 ingame to 85-105 ingame. What have I learned as a result. Nothing.

If the endeavor is to minimise the recording of 'ineffective' actions then they've failed. New eAPM is still susceptible to spamming, Taking 2 random control groups of units and constantly move commanding them in between 'effective' actions. would raise APM substantially, especially if done quickly. Further conditions need to be added to avoid situations such as this, but now we're essentially scrapping the barrel for actions which are incapable of manipulation.

An measure of all actions would allow the observer to be able to analyse and determine their worth. The arbitrary discrimination does little to help in my opinion.

P.s. Most of this probably stems from an inexplicable loss of nerd-ego as a result of this change.
Tofugrinder
Profile Joined September 2010
Austria899 Posts
September 21 2011 10:30 GMT
#543
On September 21 2011 18:11 Toppp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2011 18:06 Alpino wrote:
Wtf change. Waste your time on something useful blizz.


Don't be a idiot.

This is a positive change... they don't "waste" their time on any changes.

not really this was along with the change where you can't see any losses anymore the most stupid change. When I want to check my apm I actually want to see my _action_per_minute_ not the "useful" actions per minute.

everybody knows that the logic "more apm == better player" is not really true, so I don't see a point in changing something that worked prepatch
Loire
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Singapore1358 Posts
September 21 2011 10:35 GMT
#544
i actually would like to see some of the apms of progamers after this new patch.. would be interesting to see
ThE)ShoWTimE
Profile Joined August 2011
Italy213 Posts
September 21 2011 10:38 GMT
#545
Just remove the APM then, how do you still know if your APM are useful or not? One can still be terrible with this system, just by spamming move commands around, the best players will still spam a lot not just because they like to be cool having ton of APM (now not counted anymore) but because this spamming helps them checking things out faster, having better multitasking and warming their hands. The low league players do not spam and have less APM generally, lowering the APM of all the players by removing "spam" actions doesn't help these players in any way, on the contrary, focusing on a better management and faster play will improve their gameplay, stepping out of lower leagues implies acquiring better mechanics and micro, then strategy kicks in, APM is a direct measurement of having a better macro, multitask and micro, despite you not having to spam all the game long.
And also, considering that the 2 parameters for APM are essentially broken:
Actions: not true, Blizz removed many actions that should have been counted, spam or not, these are actions.
Minute: SC2 time is different than real time
So APM ingame are actually totally broken and not reliable, so i'm not ever going to look at them anymore ingame, i will use sc2gears for it, it's so much helpful in that regard and analyzing your playstyle and what to improve.
Monkeyballs25
Profile Joined October 2010
531 Posts
September 21 2011 10:55 GMT
#546


What was the problem with pre 1.4 APM anyway? Have you seen anyone ever complain about apm spammers fe? Merz has 500 APM, did anyone care? Did anyone consider him better than MVP or Bomber who were in the same tournament? Of course not, no one cared. But this change is god awful imo and highly unnecessary. APM should be displayed the way it is, raw clean and untouched.


If no one cares about high APM why is there a 27 page thread with many people complaining about their now lower APM?
Glurkenspurk
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1915 Posts
September 21 2011 11:09 GMT
#547
On September 21 2011 19:55 Monkeyballs25 wrote:
Show nested quote +


What was the problem with pre 1.4 APM anyway? Have you seen anyone ever complain about apm spammers fe? Merz has 500 APM, did anyone care? Did anyone consider him better than MVP or Bomber who were in the same tournament? Of course not, no one cared. But this change is god awful imo and highly unnecessary. APM should be displayed the way it is, raw clean and untouched.


If no one cares about high APM why is there a 27 page thread with many people complaining about their now lower APM?


Because it's a non issue that does nothing but make calculating APM more annoying. There is literally no reason for it to be changed.
Monkeyballs25
Profile Joined October 2010
531 Posts
September 21 2011 11:18 GMT
#548
On September 21 2011 20:09 Odal wrote:

Because it's a non issue that does nothing but make calculating APM more annoying. There is literally no reason for it to be changed.


Right, so people *do* care about APM, so they want to measure it more accurately.
vudulp
Profile Joined April 2011
Brazil45 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-21 11:23:30
September 21 2011 11:23 GMT
#549
this change sounds more like. Blizz to low ranks player
ps: their apm will keep at 30
eloist
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1017 Posts
September 21 2011 11:26 GMT
#550
On September 21 2011 20:09 Odal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2011 19:55 Monkeyballs25 wrote:


What was the problem with pre 1.4 APM anyway? Have you seen anyone ever complain about apm spammers fe? Merz has 500 APM, did anyone care? Did anyone consider him better than MVP or Bomber who were in the same tournament? Of course not, no one cared. But this change is god awful imo and highly unnecessary. APM should be displayed the way it is, raw clean and untouched.


If no one cares about high APM why is there a 27 page thread with many people complaining about their now lower APM?


Because it's a non issue that does nothing but make calculating APM more annoying. There is literally no reason for it to be changed.

Oh there are plenty of reasons. Perhaps now you get a more consistent idea while watching a replay. I never have the higher APM in the beginning of the game but usually have a higher average by the end. The numbers are not useful for comparison this way.
sVnteen
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany2238 Posts
September 21 2011 11:30 GMT
#551
that make no sense at all but who cares how apm is counted
i guess the spammers that think they are so gosu will get down to reality but other then that ? i dont think it changes anything tbh
MY LIFE STARTS NOW ♥
firehand101
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Australia3152 Posts
September 21 2011 11:35 GMT
#552
Why is APM so important anyway? viewing it seriously, i think it is only a hinderance to the sport. It puts pressure on noobies to play faster and harder, and people start measuring skill by how fast your fingers move?

Starcraft 2 is not a game of mechanics (as much as BW was), it is a game of outsmarting your opponent and making good plays, so stop worrying about AMP and enjoy the game!
The opinions expressed by our users do not reflect the official position of TeamLiquid.net or its staff.
Zeevo
Profile Joined June 2011
148 Posts
September 21 2011 11:41 GMT
#553
On September 21 2011 20:35 firehand101 wrote:
Why is APM so important anyway? viewing it seriously, i think it is only a hinderance to the sport. It puts pressure on noobies to play faster and harder, and people start measuring skill by how fast your fingers move?

Starcraft 2 is not a game of mechanics (as much as BW was), it is a game of outsmarting your opponent and making good plays, so stop worrying about AMP and enjoy the game!

No matter how much you want it not to be, Starcraft is a game of mechanics more than outsmarting your opponent
Fuchsteufelswild
Profile Joined October 2009
Australia2028 Posts
September 21 2011 11:48 GMT
#554
If spam move commands on very close locations to each other are still going to count, this is an amazingly stupid change. At least hotkey checking (121234561221131 kinda thing) can actually be for real actions, checking for anything fishy and checking for information such as how close an upgrade is to completion.
If this new APM was made to filter out close move commands but not more distant ones, it would be a more reliable indicator of a player's multitasking ability.
As an example, I see zergs with 145+ APM (SCII, prior to 1,4) who have a lot of spare larva, don't always keep the minerals as low as they could and clearly make about 6-8 move commands for most of the times when they could simply click once. Clearly, their multitasking ability is not so good, their task prioritising is poor and yet the move spam artificially jacks up their APM.
Blizzard, please fix this so that there is actually a good point to your change.
ZerO - FantaSy - Calm - Nal_rA - Jaedong - NaDa - EffOrt - Bisu - by.hero - StarDust - Welmu - Nerchio - Supernova - Solar - Squirtle - LosirA - Grubby - IntoTheRainbow - Golden... ~~~ Incredible Miracle and Woongjin Stars 화이팅!
elimzkE
Profile Joined May 2011
Australia92 Posts
September 21 2011 11:51 GMT
#555
I really, really don't understand why this change was needed. An utter complete waste of time. I really do wish Blizzard would spend more time balancing and less time changing something that ultimately doesn't matter whatsoever.
"First there was eLim. Then there was skill."
Ansinjunger
Profile Joined November 2010
United States2451 Posts
September 21 2011 11:52 GMT
#556
It's not the number that makes you capable, but the actions performed. Who cares what APM says?
Fuchsteufelswild
Profile Joined October 2009
Australia2028 Posts
September 21 2011 12:04 GMT
#557
^ If spam actions are removed (INCLUDING the mass move commands), the SCII APM will effectively become EAPM, which gives a close numeric representation of how many valid, real (actually executed, rather than repeated commands) actions were performed. It doesn't show the quality of the decisions, but it does more accurately display comparisons in people's mechanics.
ZerO - FantaSy - Calm - Nal_rA - Jaedong - NaDa - EffOrt - Bisu - by.hero - StarDust - Welmu - Nerchio - Supernova - Solar - Squirtle - LosirA - Grubby - IntoTheRainbow - Golden... ~~~ Incredible Miracle and Woongjin Stars 화이팅!
gruff
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden2276 Posts
September 21 2011 12:07 GMT
#558
I wonder how much apm Merz have after this change.
pHAcide
Profile Joined September 2011
France10 Posts
September 21 2011 14:25 GMT
#559
This is the worth update in 1.4 patch. The APM only interest poeple who are looking at it. I personaly enjoy looking at my replay and looking at my high apm well diserve cause i spamed like hell. What's the problem?
Dire_Element
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom10 Posts
September 21 2011 14:40 GMT
#560
i dont think its worth getting super excited about, most people will probably just adjust to the slightly lower figures and then wont notice it anymore. ill probably still have the odd moment when watching a replay when im confused why my apm is lower than usual though :/
"...good thing i brought my AXE CANE."
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