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APM measurements changes in 1.4.0 - Page 26

Forum Index > SC2 General
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rauk
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States2228 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-20 23:28:57
September 20 2011 23:12 GMT
#501
On September 21 2011 08:10 sechkie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2011 08:08 Ares[Effort] wrote:
On September 21 2011 07:55 sechkie wrote:
Actually in the Alicia vs Select game in the GSL, alicia's apm was hovering around 150ish average apm (does spike up to 200+) and Select's apm was constantly above 300 (sometimes up to 500+).

It just shows that you don't need an insanely high apm to play a competent game as many ppl consider Alicia a top tier protoss.

I don't think that's the point, it's not like you will play slower if it 'says' your apm is lower.
I just think its ridiculous they want to implant this bullshit instead of more important features. I guess it's to please the casuals, when will they please the people who play this game more then twice a week


What I was trying to say is to respond to someone above who was talking about no one below 200 apm or so being a gsl pro. Basically just saying that Alicia who is considered a top tier protoss player can do everything that he needs to effectively, (albeit with trouble defending gosu harrass, but that was mistakes, not lack of apm)


alicia was massively overhyped and i think it's pretty clear from his results (losing to a foreigner 0-2 in code a? get owned by tod in open bracket mlg?) that he is not a "top tier" protoss.

lol i just played a custom and now i have 74 "apm," whereas i had about 200 actions per blizzardminute before. that is really amusing.
Ares[Effort] *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
DEMACIA6550 Posts
September 20 2011 23:14 GMT
#502
On September 21 2011 08:10 sechkie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2011 08:08 Ares[Effort] wrote:
On September 21 2011 07:55 sechkie wrote:
Actually in the Alicia vs Select game in the GSL, alicia's apm was hovering around 150ish average apm (does spike up to 200+) and Select's apm was constantly above 300 (sometimes up to 500+).

It just shows that you don't need an insanely high apm to play a competent game as many ppl consider Alicia a top tier protoss.

I don't think that's the point, it's not like you will play slower if it 'says' your apm is lower.
I just think its ridiculous they want to implant this bullshit instead of more important features. I guess it's to please the casuals, when will they please the people who play this game more then twice a week


What I was trying to say is to respond to someone above who was talking about no one below 200 apm or so being a gsl pro. Basically just saying that Alicia who is considered a top tier protoss player can do everything that he needs to effectively, (albeit with trouble defending gosu harrass, but that was mistakes, not lack of apm)

ah I see
Moderatorgold coin
kabar
Profile Joined November 2010
United States616 Posts
September 20 2011 23:21 GMT
#503
my mind is going between: what the hell is blizzard trying to do here and who the hell cares?
TechnoZerg
Profile Joined May 2011
Australia75 Posts
September 20 2011 23:27 GMT
#504
On August 28 2011 16:31 Klyberess wrote:
So now the "Actions" only mean some of the actions, and the "Minute" isn't even real minutes.

.

I guess the "Per" still applies.


This is gold.

Honestly though, why would Blizzard go out of their way to implement such a change?
Power overwhelming!
Flonomenalz
Profile Joined May 2011
Nigeria3519 Posts
September 20 2011 23:53 GMT
#505
Erm, while I'm not really bothered by it, I kinda liked seeing my APM gradually increase. Usually in games that I lose I have low APM, which lets me know I'm missing injects, creep spread, not being active enough around the map... without having to actually see each individual mistake.

But meh, w/e.
I love crazymoving
SoKHo
Profile Joined April 2011
Korea (South)1081 Posts
September 20 2011 23:56 GMT
#506
Pre 1.4 in game apm: 150-185 apm

After 1.4: 130-160 apm, not much of a difference, my average apm difference before and after is like 20.

It didn't make much of a difference to me b/c I don't usually spam much @ the start
"If you don't understand my silence, you won't understand my words"|| Big Nal_rA fan boy!! Nal_rA, Bisu, Huk, MC, Hero fighting! SKT1---->
usethis2
Profile Joined December 2010
2164 Posts
September 21 2011 00:01 GMT
#507
I'll quote myself from another thread.

It will have more objective meaning. Clicking actually takes screen time during which you can't really do anything else. That's why you don't see anyone clicking 50 times to move an SCV. IMO, If someone does the same quality macro/micro with less control group spamming, then it's not illogical to value that more.

For example:

- player A does manage constant SCV production from 3 CCs and it takes her/him avg. 10 cycling through the CCs
- player B does manage constant SCV production from 3 CCs and it takes her/him avg. 5 cycling through the CCs
- player C does manage constant SCV production from 3 CCs and she/he doesn't need to cycle around because s/he is simply so well trained to the point that s/he never forgets it without even looking at CCs.

What you get is 3 SCV production every 20 secs, and those are the "Actions" that are measured. How you get there will differ per individual, and I think it's not too absurd to assume, at pro level, if you can do the same/more with less, you're probably a better player. And if you're player C, you may be able to produce marines, marauders, tanks, etc. and better engage in the battle (i.e. more "actions") while player A is busy cycling through CCs to produce SCVs. So if player C does more things while player A cycles around her/his CC, they are counted as "actions" toward the APM.

Basically this new APM measurement doesn't care how you get things done, but it counts the number of things you get done in the same time period. It's definitely more objective way of measuring APM, and it will be much more useful/meaningful than current way of measuring.
usethis2
Profile Joined December 2010
2164 Posts
September 21 2011 00:10 GMT
#508
On September 21 2011 07:50 iAmJeffReY wrote:
Hahaha can't wait to see all these zergs apm drop from 220 to 110. Loving it.

Honestly I don't think Zerg's APM will be affected that much. I'm more curious about Terran v Protoss when it comes to "real" actions because Terran unit production is queuing and Protoss is warping.
Esjihn
Profile Joined April 2010
United States164 Posts
September 21 2011 00:10 GMT
#509
Same as previous poster i was 190-230 pre patch

now im 130-160 post patch.
Moar Tanks, Less Skanks!
DreamChaser
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
1649 Posts
September 21 2011 00:14 GMT
#510
so if i was 80 before im going to guess like 40? WOOT what a total baller im going to test this out im super hyped
Plays against every MU with nexus first.
usethis2
Profile Joined December 2010
2164 Posts
September 21 2011 00:18 GMT
#511
On September 21 2011 09:14 DreamChaser wrote:
so if i was 80 before im going to guess like 40? WOOT what a total baller im going to test this out im super hyped

Yup. Unlike the previous APM which was nearly meaningless, you can actually suspect your skill is improving as your APM goes up with this new (and more objective) APM. Since it measures how many actions you're achieving in the game. (not how many times you tab your keyboard)
Supert0fu
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States499 Posts
September 21 2011 00:22 GMT
#512
If you click a lot the game will think that you are doing a lot of useful actions when in fact spam clicking is probably one of the most useless spam strategies. I don't know why people are so happy about this, being able to move a scout to going to back to your base to produce units is one of the most important skills to have but it is just considered to be worthless compared to clicking a zergling to move to the same place 80 times
usethis2
Profile Joined December 2010
2164 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-21 00:25:44
September 21 2011 00:24 GMT
#513
On September 21 2011 09:22 Supert0fu wrote:
If you click a lot the game will think that you are doing a lot of useful actions when in fact spam clicking is probably one of the most useless spam strategies. I don't know why people are so happy about this, being able to move a scout to going to back to your base to produce units is one of the most important skills to have but it is just considered to be worthless compared to clicking a zergling to move to the same place 80 times

What you said is exactly why you do not see spam clicking in the games (since it's useless). If there are click spams, they will have meanings. (like when you're trying to deny a zerg expansion with a probe, etc.)
StateAlchemist
Profile Joined January 2011
France1946 Posts
September 21 2011 00:32 GMT
#514
Actually i dont juge players on their apm, so i dont care about this change. ^^
dhe95
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States1213 Posts
September 21 2011 00:38 GMT
#515
To me it's a horribly stupid change, blizzard did not create the universal term APM so therefore they should not have the ability to change it. But either way it will affect only the smallest proportion of people and will generally be ignored, especially if programs such as sc2gears can calculate it based on the actual definition.
Conquerer67
Profile Joined May 2011
United States605 Posts
September 21 2011 00:43 GMT
#516
My APM will be lowered?
I hate when people compare SC2 and rochambeu. One race isn't fucking supposed to counter another one. | Protoss isn't OP. Their units on the other hand....
usethis2
Profile Joined December 2010
2164 Posts
September 21 2011 00:58 GMT
#517
On September 21 2011 08:53 Flonomenalz wrote:
Erm, while I'm not really bothered by it, I kinda liked seeing my APM gradually increase. Usually in games that I lose I have low APM, which lets me know I'm missing injects, creep spread, not being active enough around the map... without having to actually see each individual mistake.

But meh, w/e.

What you've mentioned are all counted in the new APM, I believe.
genius_man16
Profile Joined February 2011
United States749 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-21 01:02:03
September 21 2011 01:01 GMT
#518
On September 21 2011 09:22 Supert0fu wrote:
If you click a lot the game will think that you are doing a lot of useful actions when in fact spam clicking is probably one of the most useless spam strategies. I don't know why people are so happy about this, being able to move a scout to going to back to your base to produce units is one of the most important skills to have but it is just considered to be worthless compared to clicking a zergling to move to the same place 80 times


This is my problem with it. So now a major part of macro, the "tapping" aspect isn't useful APM? Since when is Blizzard the one to judge something like that?

I feel like when someone in Master or GM league has the same APM as someone in silver something is wrong.

Spam clicking is stupid/pointless/useless, whereas hotkey spam actually has some meaning.

Edit: went from 150-160 APM to about 70 now -_- how dare I tap so much I guess.
Dyrus | Vooby | Balls | Meteos | WildTurtle | Bjergsen | Cop | sexPeke | Xpecial | Aphromoo | Scarra |
HellionDrop
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
281 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-21 01:26:40
September 21 2011 01:26 GMT
#519
lol @ the people who whine about the significant drop in their apm.

first off, the change doesn't stop you from what you're best at, tapping.

second,if most of your apm is from tapping, that does tell you that you're not as fast as you think you are.

spam clicking might be useless too, but honestly who cares. just treat apm counter as a tool to help you become better. and stop spamming so much and actually do something useful to keep your apm high.
sechkie
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States334 Posts
September 21 2011 01:28 GMT
#520
someone was interested, so i'll post my own.
midmaster protoss
prepatch: 120
postpatch: 100ish (smaller sample, so give or take)

I think this is good that I have a small drop? I think?
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