EPTAPM measurements changes in 1.4.0 - Page 24
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BioTech
Australia264 Posts
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Kambing
United States1176 Posts
On September 12 2011 10:18 stormfoxSC wrote: I have to ask what unit production cycle is 15 seconds or less. Also, were any other actions performed between hotkey cycles? If not, then your testing is unrealistic. Oh, I thought you were claiming that the system tried to detect spam (repeated selections) vs. not spam (selections spaced out). Sorry about that. The only thing you got wrong with your post, then, is that '123' generates 3 actions. That string will only generate 1 action for the initial selection. Also, such tapping does not dominate your APM in the first place, which is part of your argument, but worthwhile to point out explicitly. This specific change makes it so korean-style tapping spam doesn't influence the APM meter. Because virtually everyone does it, average APM across the board will be significantly lower. | ||
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lorkac
United States2297 Posts
Apm is useful only if it tells you how much stuff is happening on the board as opposed to in the players head. That way a marine moving from point a to point b is one action (as opposed to 2 since you need to select the marine still) | ||
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Incanus
Canada695 Posts
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IntotheNorth
Denmark116 Posts
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Kambing
United States1176 Posts
On September 12 2011 13:23 Incanus wrote: I think you guys are all interpreting this wrong... By repeated selections they mean pressing 3 multiple times in a row counts as 1 action or pressing and holding 3 counts as only 1 action as opposed to duplicating it... Cycling through unique control groups should still count as unique actions. Nope. Cycling through unique control groups = 1 action. | ||
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Grijzeham
United Kingdom50 Posts
On September 12 2011 12:22 nikj wrote: apm has never been considered an accurate measurement of "skill." I hope it would never be considered in the equation for any competitive ladder. In the end it comes down to whether or not you win the game, not who can click faster. Definitely apm is not a good representation of skill, but then again it's blizzard I wouldn't put it past them. | ||
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Godstorm
Romania845 Posts
On September 12 2011 19:18 Grijzeham wrote: Definitely apm is not a good representation of skill, but then again it's blizzard I wouldn't put it past them. It's not however changing from apm to some retarded crap that doesn't make sense isn't any good either. Measure proper apm in real time seconds and with all actions pls. Eapm/ useful apm is even worse than spam, it makes people think you need more of that to be good, when in the end the only thing that matters is if and how you win a game, not how fast you played it. | ||
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Hexagecz
Czech Republic66 Posts
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Swiftly
Iceland160 Posts
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j0ker
275 Posts
most importantly, the tastosis jokes about headset colors at the start of gsl games will die a swift death as no player will really be able to hit a high apm at the start of games | ||
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RaiZ
2813 Posts
On September 12 2011 20:19 j0ker wrote: this isnt going to show eAPM like everyone is saying, it directly ignores cycling which is a significant percentage of ones actions, whether they are spamming or not. no, this change isnt going to change gameplay in any way, but its making a useful statistic worthless. apm isnt an end all be all stat, but it can show a player when his mechanics and such are improving. the blizzard minute thing was annoying, but everyone was on the same page and simple math could give you an idea of your true apm. this essentially makes the stat worthless and players will have to go to 3rd party software to get an idea. most importantly, the tastosis jokes about headset colors at the start of gsl games will die a swift death as no player will really be able to hit a high apm at the start of games So WHAT ? Seriously, i don't understand how it's "usefull" in any way. And no i don't have low apm. Actually i'm averaging 180 according to sc2 gears which means it's 3 actions per second. Jesus do you really need more in order to perform well ? What blizz did about this was the RIGHT move by far. I just don't get why you'd want to count your early apm since it's most of the time spamming and warmup ? Hell even some players do this retarded 123 spam throughout the entire game. Don't tell me you need that to "check" ur building or upgrades or whatever. You can perfectly do that without spamming. You're just used to it because of this apm myth that started since sc/bw. A lot of ppl got this apm thoughts extremely wrong. Blizz is just giving you a service by showing your true apm (there i said it. that's your true apm really). Anyway who cares seriously ? It's not like it will stop you to do your warmup. Cauz if it does then i'm sorry but you got this apm completely wrong. Argh. I'm so fed up of this neverending apm debate. Cheers  | ||
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Drakeblitz
Spain13 Posts
On September 12 2011 20:37 RaiZ wrote: So WHAT ? Seriously, i don't understand how it's "usefull" in any way. And no i don't have low apm. Actually i'm averaging 180 according to sc2 gears which means it's 3 actions per second. Jesus do you really need more in order to perform well ? What blizz did about this was the RIGHT move by far. I just don't get why you'd want to count your early apm since it's most of the time spamming and warmup ? Hell even some players do this retarded 123 spam throughout the entire game. Don't tell me you need that to "check" ur building or upgrades or whatever. You can perfectly do that without spamming. You're just used to it because of this apm myth that started since sc/bw. A lot of ppl got this apm thoughts extremely wrong. Blizz is just giving you a service by showing your true apm (there i said it. that's your true apm really). Anyway who cares seriously ? It's not like it will stop you to do your warmup. Cauz if it does then i'm sorry but you got this apm completely wrong. Argh. I'm so fed up of this neverending apm debate. Cheers APM stands for "Action per Minute". With this change, SC2APM will measure "Some actions per 44 seconds" This change is stupid, if you wanna measure eAPM or this weird shit of SC2 then name it something else, but this isn't APM. Period. | ||
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Batch
Sweden692 Posts
On September 12 2011 20:41 Drakeblitz wrote: APM stands for "Action per Minute". With this change, SC2APM will measure "Some actions per 44 seconds" This change is stupid, if you wanna measure eAPM or this weird shit of SC2 then name it something else, but this isn't APM. Period. By your definition APM should really be named APsc2M since it's not actually measuring actions per real minute. I think this change is great. When they are ignoring the repetetive actions we will see a larger difference between the casual gamers and the pros. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
 , since people that want to know their apm don't use the ingame apm) | ||
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Eatme
Switzerland3919 Posts
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Aiurr
Poland80 Posts
On September 12 2011 13:26 IntotheNorth wrote: Just blizzard dont want people with slow hands feel too Ashamed of themselves... I'd rather say they want people with slow brains not to feel too good about themselves. Spamming keys without using your brain is nothing to brag about imho. | ||
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MetalLobster
Canada532 Posts
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chestnutman
176 Posts
On September 12 2011 21:04 FeyFey wrote: it was never apm anyway. It was apim, actions per ingame minute. But people don't wanna use external apm meters since the igname apm are so much higher. (thats why people complain that their numbers will be reduced now , since people that want to know their apm don't use the ingame apm)It's exactly the other way around, the ingame apm are lower than the real apm.... For the people that think merz and vibe will now have lower apm than sjow and goody: That wont happen, a lot of their apm comes from constantly spamming move commands. If they want to move their army they often dont click once, but spam the position which will still count as different actions. Actually a lot of high apm players do that, it sometimes gives you just a bit more accurate control of your army, just like zerg players' apm peaks when they are controlling mutas. Btw, you can still spam your rally points at the beginning like people did in wc3 to get apm. This is of course much more useful than cycling through control groups. | ||
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merz
Sweden2760 Posts
On September 12 2011 09:09 tuho12345 wrote: I believe FD has ~150 APMs when he versus BoxeR at Blizzcon last year. It does matter a lot, but not spamming and proud of it, 400 APMs like Merz doesn't mean anything. I could spam 500 APMs all game long without building anything right? -_- I've never claimed im proud of it. There's more to speed/multitasking than raw APM. It's just how I play. Whoever claims me > sjow is stupid anyways and I've honestly never seen anyone make that claim as of yet. So tired of getting bullshit for my APM when I've never once bragged/claimed it's good. I welcome this patch with open arms, hopefully it'll reduce the amounts of posts like these. EDIT: Also because you are faster than your opponent doesn't necessarily mean you're better than him. You can be faster than your opponent and still lose, as long as his decision making and game sense is better, speed is not that important (as long as you don't sit around at like 10 apm) When speed really matters is when both players are of equal skill when it comes to decisionmaking/gamesense. Because then you need other variables to seperate them. | ||
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