EPTProtoss at the GSL - Page 6
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rickybobby
United States405 Posts
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Mailing
United States3087 Posts
Squirtle -> knocked out by marineking -> understandable Ace -> has to play MarineKing next MC -> knocked out by Alicia Alicia -> has to play Byun next SangHo, Genius, Tester, Huk, Choya, San, Inca, LegalMind, and anypro are all weak at some things and failed to impress me as a viewer. They either have a matchup they are terrible in or they rode their race to the top (Sorry San, after the amulet nerf you seem to have just completely fizzled...) Zerg also lost Fruit, Moon, July, and Losira pretty early. It just happens that some of the best players meet each other in the Ro64, especially the good protoss. | ||
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vOdToasT
Sweden2870 Posts
On June 04 2011 02:52 Cthun wrote: Makes me want to switch to zerg :/ Go ahead. You won't last 5 games. | ||
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Firepaw292
Canada126 Posts
On June 04 2011 02:52 Cthun wrote: Makes me want to switch to zerg Do it. You'll realise how good you Protoss have it and switch back. | ||
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Hypemeup
Sweden2783 Posts
Makes me want to switch to zerg Go ahead and do it, you still wont be playing the hardest race. | ||
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On June 04 2011 03:24 Cthun wrote: Spoiler alert! + Show Spoiler + Genius got squashed by Min, 0:2... Again, roach timing push, like always. Did you even watched the games? + Show Spoiler + In the first game Genius tried a timing push but simply waited to long so min had roaches with speed and burrow. Once he defended the initial push he countered with mass roach and won. where is the roach timing push here exactly? In game 2 it was 2base vs 5 of min where genius had an army but never attacked mins base since min always countered with muta's wich eventually became to much and it became a silly base trade where genius went back to his base and all he had were 2buildings and his army. There was not 1roach in that game. | ||
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ImmortalTofu
United States1254 Posts
On June 04 2011 03:04 Duoma wrote: This is generally pretty true. Outside of MC, Alicia, and some flashes of brilliance from San, the korean scene does not have many consistent or interesting protoss players. Ace and Squirtle have failed to make a splash in the korean scene thus far, Anypro Tester and SangHo have all been inconsistent in performance and rarely bring anything interesting to the table. I think it's pretty safe to say there has been no Protoss "hero" akin to MVP or Nestea. Sure, MC is likely the most successful player(winning-wise) to come out of Korea, but he hasn't revolutionized the race so much as just doing everything better. Tl;dr: OP, inconsistent protoss performance is business as usual in the GSL. Hmmm... Nothing innovative from MC? Yes he might not have the high round consistency of Nestea or MVP, he definitely has changed protoss completely. It went from the race of desperately trying to survive to collosus into high-templar or void ray cheeses to the race of void ray expands, 2 base gateway forcefield timing pushes, during GSL S3. In GSL March, he basically premiered the low-to-no collosus style of PvZ/T. Lately, vs. Ryung, he showed some dominating play with Templar. So in consistency, I would say MC is behind MVP and Nestea, but I think he is definitely innovative, and at his peak, close or surpassing their level! | ||
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Noro
Canada991 Posts
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PartyBiscuit
Canada4525 Posts
It's all about the time and context since everyone was still crying in the Round of 64 about the OP of toss. That being said, I agree with the points to actually watch the games...they were pretty terrible from both sides. It is true that Toss do pretty poorly in GSLs though with minor exceptions. | ||
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wideye
United States209 Posts
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Beyonder
Netherlands15103 Posts
Versus terran there are simply tons of stuff they can do, and you really have no idea which one, so you prepare for multiple. Scouting early is difficult and close to impossible once the marine comes out. Are they going fast ghost marauder marine? Are they doing the annoying tank banshee marine thing? Fast drops? Just marauder marine? Banshees? There are tons of possibilities. And with each build, tons of timings that can be used. The marauder and bunker generally prevents you from harassing, or doing anything that involves skill, unless you take a huge gamble, because there is no way that you can get behind-- then the timing pushes just kill you. You have to wait with taking your extra base till you know Terran takes it on most maps, this counts for your third as well. Its just very very difficult and if you want to play a tad safe, youre forced to play extremely reactive. One mistake and there are no units to get you back in to the game: the protoss units simply do not allow for a lot of skill input. They are kind of straight forward, attack move units, almost wc3esque with our a-click units as heroes (sup colossus). Versus zerg, early harassment is also almost all-in. Either one base or two base. You get behind, then youre forced to turtle up and there's simply not much more to do than that. Wait till you have a huge army, defend, and move out. Zerg is just incredibly strong at the moment and the only way to deal with it is go (semi) all in with a huge push and pray that the opponent doesnt have the macro, or try to secure bases and move out when youre psy capped. This is why I wished that I played terran. Its units are so mobile, so versatile, and the harass units mix into the regular army so incredibly well (sup banshee). You can come back from behind (see TvT and TvZ) because your units allow for a lot of skill input. And zergs can actually take expands on big maps agressively. Bleh. In general, protoss is truly the practice race. It is kind of what zerg was before T_T. You play full reactionary, then every tiny mistake gets punished. You try to (somewhat) dicatate the game? then youre almost all-in. | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
It is weird because protosses in NA/EU win tournaments with builds that korean protosses do and get smashed. It makes me think it is game design rather than talent; any time a protoss has time to prepare for a gsl match what does he come up with? A gimmicky timing attack, most likely. If these are the players that are grinding double digit hours a day and that is the only thing they can come up with, I am very worried for protoss in the future. | ||
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Veritassong
Canada393 Posts
On June 04 2011 03:54 skrzmark wrote: I think Mothership Templar would be good against a Terran in Midgame. But then again they can emp and reveal your units with scans... I was thinking it would force them into vikings. they only need emp to both clear ur mana AND reveal ur units... emp has like 10 functions. | ||
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Beyonder
Netherlands15103 Posts
On June 04 2011 04:06 Alejandrisha wrote: Inside of korea protoss is really awkward. You have people like anypro and inca who have been in the gsl forever but are awful. You have people like hongun and sangho that are pretty bad but stick around somehow. You have MC who was unbeatable for a time just doing gimmicky builds. You have San who is trying to play macro games and having some success. Then you have Alicia who is the only one who has shown he is compentant at playing a macro game. Really, he is the only one I'd ever want to learn from. It is weird because protosses in NA/EU win tournaments with builds that korean protosses do and get smashed. It makes me think it is game design rather than talent; any time a protoss has time to prepare for a gsl match what does he come up with? A gimmicky timing attack, most likely. If these are the players that are grinding double digit hours a day and that is the only thing they can come up with, I am very worried for protoss in the future. I think protoss is quite easy to get good with as it does not allow for that much skill input. So al ot of practice pays off in that regard. But its insanely hard to get truly good with for that same reason. You simply can not do all that much with your units. Outmacroing is out of the question: you cant take bases ahead of your opponent. There's a reason they come up with gimmicky timing attacks. Protosss is just the sad mix between sc2 and wc3, and therefore rarely, if ever, fun to watch T_T. Only maps can camouflage the sadness that is protoss. Some big maps produce fun situations (e.g. terrans running all over the place and protoss following, or protoss actually doing multi prong attacks). Cant believe that the zergs are still whining nowadays. Zerg is sick strong atm :D | ||
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Beyonder
Netherlands15103 Posts
On June 04 2011 04:06 Veritassong wrote: they only need emp to both clear ur mana AND reveal ur units... emp has like 10 functions. There's absolutely NO WAY that you can get those units out. There are 10 different attacks that kill you. | ||
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Trentelshark
Canada385 Posts
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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
On June 04 2011 03:50 GhostFall wrote: Protoss randomly do badly in one tournament and people start complaining and switching races. Jesus Christ. It's not even one whole tournament, it's the first freaking round. Seriously, 2 short weeks of Protoss losing. I don't even understand why this is a thread. Its not just the first round of this tournament. Look at GSL: How many Toss have actually done that well EVER? Sure, MC has won it twice, but MC is a fricking god at this game. Inca was there to face Nestea, but he excels on cheesy wins and is very good against Toss, but awful against Zerg. Honestly, theres about 4 Toss worth mentioning from the GSL imo: San, Alicia, HuK, and MC. | ||
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Treehead
999 Posts
The patch is new, the tactics are still fairly new, how can we possibly think we've already tried everything worth trying to overcome these problems? That, and the fact that a lot of people are posting about things like how they want 4-gate to be good again. I don't think any progamer thus far has posted or spoken to the effect that they'd like to see 4-gate get stronger. | ||
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Mailing
United States3087 Posts
On June 04 2011 04:10 Beyonder wrote: I think protoss is quite easy to get good with as it does not allow for that much skill input. So al ot of practice pays off in that regard. But its insanely hard to get truly good with for that same reason. You simply can not do all that much with your units. Outmacroing is out of the question: you cant take bases ahead of your opponent. There's a reason they come up with gimmicky timing attacks. Cant believe that the zergs are still whining nowadays. Zerg is sick strong atm :D Dude zerg are not whining much. We are mad at protoss thinking zerg is strong vs protoss now because their weakest GSL players lost badly to zergs while the actually impressive ones like MC and Squirtle and Ace get knocked out by PvP and PvT They see Inca getting smashed by NesTea an indicator that protoss are weak somehow.. | ||
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Gescom
Canada3516 Posts
On June 04 2011 02:57 Joseph123 wrote: well protoss has never been doing well in the GSL only MC has did so.. Two seasons ago it was 3 protoss in the top 4. =P | ||
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