I've played zerg before and it is nowhere near as hard as people make it out to be. I'm a mid master level toss and I played zerg for a very short time, but after I did I was already at diamond level for zerg. All those zergs that say that their race is so much harder bla bla actually takes skill bla bla toss ez zerg so hard are full of fkin bullshit. IMO zergs are inclined to think that their race is the hardest because it feeds their egos and makes them feel better when they lose. And finally when protoss is actually underpowered(now) they just say that its because protoss lack the skills of the other races. Protosses appear lackluster and unskilled right now such as san or anypro because their race itself is lackluster, its harder as a toss to show good play and win than with zerg. The fact of the matter is that right now protoss is doing terribly against both zergs and terrans, and they always didn't do that well against terrans but now they are doing bad as well against zergs, which brings up the protoss qq that is completely justified. I mean if a race as a whole is doing badly against both other races, that means that it is underpowered. Also, this is not reflected only by super tournament. I think it is pretty much established that protoss is weak at the moment, whether this will change because of new innovations or balance patches is yet to be resolved. However if zergs keep falsely qqing that their race takes skill while protoss doesn't and blizz listens to them, protoss will remain underpowered for a while.

LesPhoques

Canada782 Posts

June 04 2011 22:48 GMT

#522

On June 05 2011 07:42 bananaman533 wrote:
I've played zerg before and it is nowhere near as hard as people make it out to be. I'm a mid master level toss and I played zerg for a very short time, but after I did I was already at diamond level for zerg. All those zergs that say that their race is so much harder bla bla actually takes skill bla bla toss ez zerg so hard are full of fkin bullshit. IMO zergs are inclined to think that their race is the hardest because it feeds their egos and makes them feel better when they lose. And finally when protoss is actually underpowered(now) they just say that its because protoss lack the skills of the other races. Protosses appear lackluster and unskilled right now such as san or anypro because their race itself is lackluster, its harder as a toss to show good play and win than with zerg. The fact of the matter is that right now protoss is doing terribly against both zergs and terrans, and they always didn't do that well against terrans but now they are doing bad as well against zergs, which brings up the protoss qq that is completely justified. I mean if a race as a whole is doing badly against both other races, that means that it is underpowered. Also, this is not reflected only by super tournament. I think it is pretty much established that protoss is weak at the moment, whether this will change because of new innovations or balance patches is yet to be resolved. However if zergs keep falsely qqing that their race takes skill while protoss doesn't and blizz listens to them, protoss will remain underpowered for a while.

Yep, I completely agree with you. Mid master protoss and zerg here.
People blame inbalance instead of their skill but I am not sure if protoss underpowered, but they lack something, most likely new strategy.

Mactator

109 Posts

June 04 2011 22:57 GMT

#523

Eh, let me see if I get this. You watch GSL --> see protoss players lose a lot --> wanna change race. Talking about fleeing from challenges. Don't see the point of this thread. Protoss has just been figured out and is forced to think new ideas on how to play. Not the worst thing that can happen.

dooraven

Australia2820 Posts

June 04 2011 23:00 GMT

#524

I think we need to incorporate more pheonixes in our builds. They are tremendously useful in sniping medivacs and overlords but the stuff we need to work on is the timing so we don't die to pressures, also they tank vikings pretty well.

ScythedBlade

308 Posts

June 04 2011 23:15 GMT

#525

Yea. The only viable path for a new strategy is probably more phoenixes. Unfortunately, it doesn't stop mass roaches, and phoenixes are still WAY too expensive as paper planes.

The problem right here with people here thinking that Protoss's lack strategies is the fact Protoss units don't work so well unless they're in balls. You canno just mass one untis and expect protoss to be awesome.

Smigi

United States328 Posts

June 04 2011 23:21 GMT

#526

There are two simple reasons.

First of all. Yes, its actually true. SOME protoss players have been lackluster performance wise.

Secondly, protoss players are sticking to strategies that made the race ridiculously strong over the past months. These strategies are now being figured out by Zerg players/Terran players.

Someone summed it up in one quote, which was right on the money. And I will repeat it for you;

When is protoss at its strongest?
When it has the deathball.
How do you avoid playing against the deathball?
Kill them before they get it.

MrCon

France29748 Posts

June 04 2011 23:52 GMT

#527

People will never learn.
Recent sc2 history showed us that there is no such thing as imbalance (that's not entirely true, some things were really imba like reapers).
Protosses have dominated zergs for months and months. It took a long time for zergs to learn to play against this (and patches are not the reason, just look at morrow ling banelings style vs P, it's a style that could have worked in beta but that just have been discovered). Now zergs knows how to play vs protosses, they have powerful new timings (ling roach 8 minutes bust), so it's protosses turn to invent new builds and new ways to play.
That's the normal cycle of starcraft. Zergs were crying when protoss were killing them during months ; now we know that this whine was not justified, this was a "learn to play" case. Please protoss players, don't fall in the whine side.

It can be discouraging to be in the bottom of such a cycle, but blaming imbalance will just delay the discovery of new builds and unit compositions. Protoss have a tough time, this is true. But it has nothing to do with balance. It has everything to do with a recent patch that messed up their timings and all their builds. They have to relearn PvZ because of new zerg builds, PvT because terrans learned to play too (this is another long story but i'll just skip it), and even PvP because the patch opened up a lot of new viable paths. Having to relearn and rediscover all 3 matchups at once is the reason P players are struggling and why most pro P are slumping.

xbankx

703 Posts

June 05 2011 00:31 GMT

#528

Just switch to zerg and go roaach ling(what I been doing every game on ladder lately against toss) until blizzard fix toss or a new toss hero comes out with some decent strategy.

Litterally it takes no skill just hotkey your hatch and do a 7-8 min roachling rush and1a and its gg. At Low level you don't even need to do creep spread.

vOdToasT

Sweden2870 Posts

June 05 2011 01:01 GMT

#529

On June 05 2011 09:31 xbankx wrote:
Just switch to zerg and go roaach ling(what I been doing every game on ladder lately against toss) until blizzard fix toss or a new toss hero comes out with some decent strategy.

Litterally it takes no skill just hotkey your hatch and do a 7-8 min roachling rush and1a and its gg. At Low level you don't even need to do creep spread.

Hello 600 master. I'm 1500. On my level Protosses don't die to roach ling.

IVN

534 Posts

June 05 2011 01:12 GMT

#530

On June 05 2011 10:01 vOdToasT wrote:

Show nested quote +

Hello 600 master. I'm 1500. On my level Protosses don't die to roach ling.

Really? How's that possible, when even code s players die to that strategy?

Serdiuk

Belgium145 Posts

June 05 2011 01:46 GMT

#531

On June 05 2011 08:52 MrCon wrote:
People will never learn.
Recent sc2 history showed us that there is no such thing as imbalance (that's not entirely true, some things were really imba like reapers).
Protosses have dominated zergs for months and months. It took a long time for zergs to learn to play against this (and patches are not the reason, just look at morrow ling banelings style vs P, it's a style that could have worked in beta but that just have been discovered). Now zergs knows how to play vs protosses, they have powerful new timings (ling roach 8 minutes bust), so it's protosses turn to invent new builds and new ways to play.
That's the normal cycle of starcraft. Zergs were crying when protoss were killing them during months ; now we know that this whine was not justified, this was a "learn to play" case. Please protoss players, don't fall in the whine side.

You're right, it's pretty cyclical

I'd say the MU was Zerg favoured until around november when Tyler made Mutaling nearly impossible with 6 gate (Gosucoaching showmatch where Tyler upset Idra). Then it was pretty even until late december when void ray colossus really came out. Since April the momentum is turning again with since the Losira build came out. Since then Z is putting up a clinic of creative build orders and Protoss is struggling a bit.

What amazes me though, is that the focus is always on PvZ/ZvP. Despite T generally having the highest representation and success.

aZealot

New Zealand5447 Posts

June 05 2011 01:49 GMT

#532

Isn't that because P and Z know that Terran have been OP since beta? :p

fadestep

United States605 Posts

June 05 2011 01:57 GMT

#533

Because Terran is a well rounded race that can easily be brought to a place of balance because it is solid, stable. Zerg and Protoss both feel like they are apt to bounce back and forth between UP/OP because of some of their mechanics/design.