EPTedit: you accomplish this by nerfing FF and buffing some other aspect (gate units perhaps)
Protoss at the GSL - Page 4
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Jameser
Sweden951 Posts
edit: you accomplish this by nerfing FF and buffing some other aspect (gate units perhaps) | ||
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K3Nyy
United States1961 Posts
Nowadays Terrans and Zergs have learned to stop Protoss from reaching critical mass by harassing and timing attacks. Without critical mass, Protoss units are quite weak. It has nothing to do with bad players or whatever. The race is just very awkward to play. | ||
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Cthun
Israel71 Posts
On June 04 2011 03:20 sjschmidt93 wrote: I didn't see his Ro32 game, but Genius really impressed me in the Ro64. Spoiler alert! + Show Spoiler + Genius got squashed by Min, 0:2... Again, roach timing push, like always. delete this thread I think you mean "post". The thread is going pretty well imo, besides a few rampaging balance fan(atic)s. | ||
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LaiShin
Australia978 Posts
This is one for the b.net forums. | ||
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nokz88
Brazil1253 Posts
The pro scene is full of people dedicating their full time analyzing and dissecting builds, timings etc... not rarely the balance of power shifts to one side or another, just to be undone after a couple of weeks. It repeats for many many times, and will eventually reach BW scene levels, where (almost) everything is known and accounted for, but I feel it's far from that stage yet. Seriously, take a minute to look back and see what I'm talking about. Zerg macro, forcefields, Terran as a whole, protoss deathballs, so on... every one of those was considered overpowered once. Hell, go look at the GSL May group selection, no one wanted anything to do with any protoss, and look what happened a month later. Don't believe me? Here's the link. It's free: GSL May Group nominations Another interesting link: PlayXP QQ rankings since SC2 release Look at that shit. One could think that patches were the driving force behind those graphs, but you can compare the patch release dates with the QQ rankings that the main shifts came from important, landscape-changing builds/strategies displayed by the pros, such as when MC first showed the power of forcefields, or when MKP made marines counter banelings, etc... Stop complaining, go work on solutions, or if you won't/can't just give the scene some time. | ||
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marconi
Croatia220 Posts
As a protoss in this matchup your early aggro options are limited to a few timing attacks and gimmicky stargate play that's easily counterable by any decent zerg ( plus the spore buff ). I'm really convinced that infestors are way too powerful, especially fungal growth that's spammable and effective like an immobilizing storm at this point, and you get a nice air counter with the spammable infested marines. and the reason that no one is complaining is because there is so much hate against any further balance discussion, especially from the side of zerg players who are silent at this point, and I'm pretty sure a lot of the good zergs would agree with me. Just my 2 cents on this topic. | ||
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navara
France95 Posts
On June 04 2011 03:23 julianto wrote: Do switch to zerg. There is the unforgiving larva inject mechanism and the constant dilemma to drone or make army units, which tosses don't have to deal with. Switch and see how easy it is. As for me, whenever I get random protoss, all I have to do is turtle for 90% of the game and then a-move. Scouting - optional for protoss, necessary for zerg (or else you'll overdrone, underdrone, or make the wrong counters). It just takes half as much effort into the game whenever I roll terran or toss. this, why don't you just do it ? before posting a slightly disguised imba-whine thread? | ||
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Jojo131
Brazil1631 Posts
Can't remember the exact words, but it had something to do with a lot of Terran (or in this case Protoss) players all around getting inflated results due to imbalance and people just not knowing how to deal with them at the moment. Once a mixture of people trying out new things (ex. more infestor/ling play) coupled with a few nerfs to Toss (ex. KA nerf) and things were bound to balance out eventually. (ie. It became possible to beat Protoss again) The people who are switching from Protoss to another race were clearly riding the FOTM while it lasted, while the ones who actually like Protoss as a race are still around. Again, having Toss lose shouldn't be a surprise. Every race is supposed to lose. It's balance. | ||
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Cthun
Israel71 Posts
On June 04 2011 03:25 LaiShin wrote: What's with the bad threads recently? This is one for the b.net forums. Naming this thread bad after making that kind of post makes your opinion worth a grand total of zero. | ||
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Atila
Cuba122 Posts
its a result of people figuring out how to deal with protoss and many protoss are doing well its silly to bring up MC because + Show Spoiler + he lost a PvP You obviously don't watch GSL THAT OFTEN because you only mentioned HuK, MC, and Trickster, which are only a few and generally they perform mediocre in tournaments (yes this extends to MC, lately he hasn't been getting results, but I do acknowledge he's done very well in the past) To conclude, yes it's a change in results, yes its good. Race distribution is about even now, showing that this game has matured beyond "imbalance" | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
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HereBeDragons
1429 Posts
On June 04 2011 03:13 ScythedBlade wrote: It's been proven that Protoss is the worst race. If you use perfect micro AI (some guy who actually programmed it), Protoss finishes dead last. The real fact is that more QQ players play zerg. The only thing preventing Protoss players right now from doing extremely bad is that players have not reached anywhere near the skill ceiling, but Protoss has been mostly figured out. (Essentially because the possibility branching tree for Protoss is always less deep than the other two races.) Not really a valid argument. As far as I'm aware it is nigh-impossible to teach AI how to forcefields. Why? Because FF is situational, it requires judgement of when to be used that an algorithm just wouldn't cut it. You cannot program a perfect forcefield AI, you'll end up having random forcefields wasted more than you want, or almost nothing at all. And the protoss early/mid game often relies quite a lot on sentires. | ||
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Cthun
Israel71 Posts
Do switch to zerg. There is the unforgiving larva inject mechanism and the constant dilemma to drone or make army units, which tosses don't have to deal with. Switch and see how easy it is. As for me, whenever I get random protoss, all I have to do is turtle for 90% of the game and then a-move. Scouting - optional for protoss, necessary for zerg (or else you'll overdrone, underdrone, or make the wrong counters). It just takes half as much effort into the game whenever I roll terran or toss. You must play some really bad players then m8, I tried turtling and got my rear kicked to the moon by zerg taking over 70% of the map. Not saying zerg is OP, but I'm saying that you shouldn't do balance talks based on bad players. | ||
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{ToT}ColmA
Japan3260 Posts
On June 04 2011 03:04 Duoma wrote: This is generally pretty true. Outside of MC, Alicia, and some flashes of brilliance from San, the korean scene does not have many consistent or interesting protoss players. Ace and Squirtle have failed to make a splash in the korean scene thus far, Anypro Tester and SangHo have all been inconsistent in performance and rarely bring anything interesting to the table. I think it's pretty safe to say there has been no Protoss "hero" akin to MVP or Nestea. Sure, MC is likely the most successful player(winning-wise) to come out of Korea, but he hasn't revolutionized the race so much as just doing everything better. Tl;dr: OP, inconsistent protoss performance is business as usual in the GSL. no this is not "pretty true" if u consider 3 out of 4 people (anypro san mc) in march gsl top4 being protoss for example, inca making the finals in the last gsl etc. for the playerbase protoss has in gsl ( i think they suck mostly ) they are doing extremely well | ||
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zyzski
United States698 Posts
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Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
On June 04 2011 03:04 Duoma wrote: This is generally pretty true. Outside of MC, Alicia, and some flashes of brilliance from San, the korean scene does not have many consistent or interesting protoss players. Ace and Squirtle have failed to make a splash in the korean scene thus far, Anypro Tester and SangHo have all been inconsistent in performance and rarely bring anything interesting to the table. I think it's pretty safe to say there has been no Protoss "hero" akin to MVP or Nestea. Sure, MC is likely the most successful player(winning-wise) to come out of Korea, but he hasn't revolutionized the race so much as just doing everything better. Tl;dr: OP, inconsistent protoss performance is business as usual in the GSL. This is so damn true, couldn't agree more. Also OP if you would like to see better performance of protoss, check the starswar tournament. All semifinals is protoss. I believe the guy named XiaoT won like 2-0 against opponents like + Show Spoiler + EGIdrA, MarineKingPrime.WE and San | ||
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Ancient.sc
61 Posts
Protoss used to dominate, then Zerg figured out new things, now Zerg dominates, then Protoss will figure out new things and will dominate again and so on. Until the game will be completely figured out, there will be shifts like this were races have higher win percentages over some short periods of time. | ||
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nam nam
Sweden4672 Posts
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Let it Raine
Canada1245 Posts
protoss needs a hero. A safe, macro oriented and reactionary, hero. | ||
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meadbert
United States681 Posts
Since the Warp Nerf Protoss has a 13-28 record in the GSL vs other races. This means that a Toss that loses 1-2 is actually doing better than the average Toss. Definitely Protoss is struggling right now, but it is not clear to me that this is a UP issue as much as a strain on players by forcing them to learn all new timings. If you forced all of the protoss players to switch races they would do even worse because they have more experience with Protoss, not for power reasons. For the same reason I think the warp nerf has undone many hours/months of work on the timings of various builds essentially leaving Toss players with less experience than the players of other races. It may turn out that Toss is UP, but it is still too early to make any conclusions. | ||
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