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kirbynator
Canada503 Posts
On June 04 2011 02:55 Cthun wrote: Did I miss something? When did that happen? Very constructive post m8, really gives you a lot to think about. You're the one with the useless thread with a not-thinly-veiled-at-all whine... | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
On June 04 2011 08:32 vOdToasT wrote: Storm drops aren't that good vs a player who has map awareness. The investment in gas is huge, and you are unlikely to kill many drones at all vs a good Zerg. He just has to move his drones. His exact response. But you know you don't have to load your templars into your warp prism ? If it doesn't work, you lost 200minerals. So what ? But if it works, it's a mineral line cleared. With speed warp prism (100/100 upgrade), you can get aways easily. And no zerg can make banelings/bl/infestors/corruptors/muta. | ||
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leecH
Germany385 Posts
On June 04 2011 08:31 Erasme wrote: Did one of you (toss) ever tried to drop templars ? I ask a friend of mine (top eu master). He never did, because it's 'useless'. Same for Dark templars. As a zerg player, I love when a toss sticks to an outdated style and QQ after being crushed into oblivion. sure man i make a nonstatic pylon. then i fly it to an expansion. there i unload my templar. i give him a hustler magazine and a couple of beers so he is not bored while waiting for his mojo to go up. after 25 minutes my templar could storm the shit out of the workerline but he felt asleep.. stupid templars have no work ethic. socke used alot of templar warpins but since amulet is removed you cant warp them im and instantly storm. so you talking about outdated styles while playing outdated styles. yo dawg. | ||
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Catch]22
Sweden2683 Posts
On June 04 2011 08:37 leecH wrote: sure man i make a nonstatic pylon. then i fly it to an expansion. there i unload my templar. i give him a hustler magazine and a couple of beers so he is not bored while waiting for his mojo to go up. after 25 minutes my templar could storm the shit out of the workerline but he felt asleep.. stupid templars have no work ethic. socke used alot of templar warpins but since amulet is removed you cant warp them im and instantly storm. so you talking about outdated styles while playing outdated styles. yo dawg. Funny how people managed to stormdrop in Sc1, but its impossible in sc2 because of no Khaydarin ??????????????? | ||
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Elefanto
Switzerland3584 Posts
On June 04 2011 08:40 Catch]22 wrote: Funny how people managed to stormdrop in Sc1, but its impossible in sc2 because of no Khaydarin ??????????????? you don't go fast storm in sc2. storm drop comes incredible late, you won't have templar / colossus tech before min 3 base gas | ||
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leecH
Germany385 Posts
On June 04 2011 08:40 Catch]22 wrote: Funny how people managed to stormdrop in Sc1, but its impossible in sc2 because of no Khaydarin ??????????????? did i say its impossible to do? | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
On June 04 2011 08:37 leecH wrote: sure man i make a nonstatic pylon. then i fly it to an expansion. there i unload my templar. i give him a hustler magazine and a couple of beers so he is not bored while waiting for his mojo to go up. after 25 minutes my templar could storm the shit out of the workerline but he felt asleep.. stupid templars have no work ethic. socke used alot of templar warpins but since amulet is removed you cant warp them im and instantly storm. so you talking about outdated styles while playing outdated styles. yo dawg. You need to wait 15sec. Wow. That's huge. Btw you don't have to make it where he can see it. But you're too smart for me. (And yes amulet was imba. Get over it.) And I'm not talking about a fast tech to storm drop, but a lategame strat. | ||
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IVN
534 Posts
On June 04 2011 08:37 Erasme wrote: His exact response. But you know you don't have to load your templars into your warp prism ? If it doesn't work, you lost 200minerals. So what ? But if it works, it's a mineral line cleared. With speed warp prism (100/100 upgrade), you can get aways easily. And no zerg can make banelings/bl/infestors/corruptors/muta. OK, what then? Warp them in? ololololol | ||
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Apolo
Portugal1259 Posts
1) Every strategy must be beatable if the other player knows it's coming, otherwise it's imbalanced. 2) Many strategies should be beatable even if the other player doesn't know for sure it's coming, because there are ways to deny scouting, and then it would be imbalanced. 3) Protoss relies on tight build orders and fixed timings. 4) A lot of SC2 is based on strategies winning other strategies many times without the possibility of other kind of skill to show within the confrontation, because a lot of times it revolves around one player making one strategy and the other countering it. As zergs learn to scout and know toss timings, suddenly protoss gets beaten. This is nothing more than Blizzards' fault for making protoss so rigid. Most of the times, the counter of a strategy is so strong, that microing barely affects the outcome, specially how toss units aren't that micro intensive, for instance, compared to marine tank - bane micro involved. Had Blizzard made so that all races had equally strong and viable strategies on their own, without having to rely so much on hard counter units / hard counter strategies / fixed timings for all ins / coin flip based strategies, we would see much less of this bs. | ||
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epikAnglory
United States1120 Posts
Protoss will lose any macro game against an EVENLY SKILLED player. If you watch SlayerS_Min games on Terminus, he used his 12 minute max-supply Roach w/ 1/1 and speed with burrow build two times while Protoss is only about 86 supply. Though our deathball is the second strongest compared to the unaffordable Ultralisk Infestor, it is technically an all-in style as there is no way to replace those Colossi and Void Rays, and Warp Gate units are trash by themselves. In StarCraft II the races rely on only one strategy, or cheese in the beginning, there are no alternatives to playing from the standard Deathball style. They tried to make Archons better, but honestly the Immortal is too weak of a unit to be useful in mid-game and further. Just a side note, I know its not possible to discuss without it, but still if I did not watch the GSL, I would just assume almost every Protoss lost in their non-PvP matchups lol (without clicking on the spoiler). | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
I don't know ... do you want a 'victory' button ? Seriously, I'm sick of that. I just throwed a viable idea, and every toss are 'lololol DOESNT WORK ! CUZ NEED MICRO/MAP AWARENESS'. Get your head of your ass and try to make it work. | ||
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
Most of the times, the counter of a strategy is so strong, that microing barely affects the outcome, specially how toss units aren't that micro intensive, for instance, compared to marine - bane micro involved. No one Protoss unit is as micro intensive, but the army as awhole is considerably more micro intensive. No other race has as many slow/vulnerable units, no other race has as many spells, no other race has the need to keep formation at the level Protoss does, no other race has to look away from the battle to build reinforcements. | ||
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leecH
Germany385 Posts
On June 04 2011 08:42 Erasme wrote: You need to wait 15sec. Wow. That's huge. Btw you don't have to make it where he can see it. But you're too smart for me. (And yes amulet was imba. Get over it.) And I'm not talking about a fast tech to storm drop, but a lategame strat. you are talking about trends hence you mentioned "ZOMG I luuuv it when they go outdated". then i told you there is a very talented individual that did this when amulat still excisted. i neither said i would warp in my templar where you could see it (why should i do that wtf) neither did i cry about not having amulet anymore. so basicly i have no clue what you are talking about. | ||
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Belha
Italy2850 Posts
- Z's have learned the proper timmings to drone hard, abuse the mobility-cost/efficiency of roach/ling, take expos, or just defend until the muta ball is up; also the big maps favor all those facts, Z have time to stop droning once they see the protoss going out, also the bigger the distances, the bigger the benefit from fast movement units. - T's just improved their usual play, AND added the insanity of the cheap ghost (tier 2 templar class spellcaster with stupidly micro-friendly spell mechanics). P's must learn how to deal with this new meta, or just wait until a new balance patch (which will eventualy come out if P pros keep falling). | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
On June 04 2011 08:50 leecH wrote: you are talking about trends hence you mentioned "ZOMG I luuuv it when they go outdated". then i told you there is a very talented individual that did this when amulat still excisted. i neither said i would warp in my templar where you could see it (why should i do that wtf) neither did i cry about not having amulet anymore. so basicly i have no clue what you are talking about. Seriously ? So it was legit but only Socke did it ? And now that there is no more instant storm, it's not viable anymore ? You have no clue because you're not good. You're not even good to try it. It's just sad. Edit : And I'm saying that you should test new strats. I'm sorry if you're not happy about that. | ||
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Zealot Lord
Hong Kong747 Posts
On June 04 2011 03:13 KimJongChill wrote: Zerg is not OP, and never has or will be. I feel like there just aren't many great korean protoss besides MC and Alicia. Zerg has Nestea, July, Losira, and some great up-and-comers like DRG and Min. And there are just a dickload of terran players, all with great potential (slayers, anyone?) that it makes the rest of the toss seem comparatively lack-luster. Not implying that Zerg is OP or not - but to definitively say the race will never be overpowered like a proven fact just goes to show how biased certain zerg players are unfortunately =/ It's funny that whenever Protoss seems weak, its always because of players and not the race - but if you really think about it, how come there are so few up and coming protoss players all these past months in GSL? It cannot just be because everyone who plays protoss is 'lack-luster'.. truth is that, its never been as strong of a race people believed it to be - its pretty much an illusion created by ogsMC (similar to how Moon made Nightelf in WC3). Is protoss weak? Its hard to tell right now, but it cannot be denied its an extremely fragile race - thats why I think pro players generally don't pick/succeed much with the race because its a race that either punishes with certain timings, or gets punished, theres not much inbetween usually. If you look at the latest GSTL finals between Slayers & MVP, in a BO9 that went to the ace match, Cella couldn't even find a good time to send out Alicia - who is widely regarded as the teams best player. It just goes to show you they are fully aware of the risks of using a protoss player imo. | ||
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epikAnglory
United States1120 Posts
On June 04 2011 08:54 Erasme wrote: Seriously ? So it was legit but only Socke did it ? And now that there is no more instant storm, it's not viable anymore ? You have no clue because you're not good. You're not even good to try it. It's just sad. The patch technically removed the High Templar bro, I would never go there except when I am at least on four bases and ahead, never at even footing. Warp Prisms have low HP and move slow as hell, and I really do not want to use gas on speed when I am going for High Templars under four bases. High Templar drops depend on the map, it may be viable on maps such as Tal Darim Altar, but on maps such as Shattered Temple it is almost impossible to get a good storm against a decent player. | ||
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leecH
Germany385 Posts
On June 04 2011 08:54 Erasme wrote: Seriously ? So it was legit but only Socke did it ? And now that there is no more instant storm, it's not viable anymore ? You have no clue because you're not good. You're not even good to try it. It's just sad. Edit : And I'm saying that you should test new strats. I'm sorry if you're not happy about that. you still dont get it on top you are making the claim i am a bad player. your opinion just became much more legit by calling me a bad player. sir i hope one day ill be as smart and good as you are lol. | ||
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5unrise
New Zealand646 Posts
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
On June 04 2011 08:59 iTzAnglory wrote: The patch technically removed the High Templar bro, I would never go there except when I am at least on four bases and ahead, never at even footing. Warp Prisms have low HP and move slow as hell, and I really do not want to use gas on speed when I am going for High Templars under four bases. High Templar drops depend on the map, it may be viable on maps such as Tal Darim Altar, but on maps such as Shattered Temple it is almost impossible to get a good storm against a decent player. I said something about speed warp prism. 100/100. And the patch didn't 'technically removed the High Templar bro'. Ht is an amazing unit. My last post in this topic, it's a stupid one anyway. | ||
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