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On June 04 2011 07:47 HolyHenk wrote:
The real weakness of the protoss is it very limited amount of options. Not only unit options but also usage options.
The unit options are a complete joke! Carriers, Mothership, Warp Prisms are basicly all useless. DT is a dangerous unit to get because its countered really easy. This doesn't really leave a lot of units left considering that you always need zealots stalkers sentries and observers. You can then chose between HT, Voidray, Phoenixes, Immortal and Colosus. Phoenixes are only used in openings to ensure map control in the early game and very rarely in the late game . The same goes for voidrays although they sometimes get massed in the late game. This leaves you with only 3 options of which immortals are only viable against certain units.
The options for unit usage is the biggest problem. Protoss got no harass options but phoenixes which are so easily countered. Warp prisms are too dangerous to use because they get shot down instantly and got no futher usage like medivacs and overlords. Protoss can't attack at multiple places because their units are inefficient in small numbers and are slow. Protoss can't put pressure without risking the loss of their entire army. Their units are slow and can never retreat. Protoss only got 1 interesting mechanic: The forcefield. This ability makes the difference in every battle. And if you take it away (EMPS) ! You are basicly dead.
Due to this protoss is either forced to defend all game and make the feared deathball or they have to do some sort of timing/all in push.
I've never understood why protoss players seem to hate the warp prism, it's a very good unit, against zergs at least.
And, using your logic in ZvP, late game zerlings are bad, roaches are bad, hydras are bad, brood lords are bad, ultras are bad, which leaves infestors and maybe banelings/corruptors. You can always talk about how easily X units are countered, but that's not the way to judge a MU. You also completely forgot archons, which are great against zerg. 
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On June 04 2011 07:56 vOdToasT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 07:49 Darclite wrote:Protoss is still the best race just bad players Zerg is not OP, and never has or will be. I feel like there just aren't many great korean protoss besides MC and Alicia. Zerg has Nestea, July, Losira, and some great up-and-comers like DRG and Min. And there are just a dickload of terran players, all with great potential (slayers, anyone?) that it makes the rest of the toss seem comparatively lack-luster. if you look at results only it looks bad. but if you watched the games, they played horribly. Protoss best race the strategy's are very easy to execute for toss right now the only thing that makes things different with players is just mechanic's/micro. Do switch to zerg. There is the unforgiving larva inject mechanism and the constant dilemma to drone or make army units, which tosses don't have to deal with. Switch and see how easy it is. As for me, whenever I get random protoss, all I have to do is turtle for 90% of the game and then a-move. Scouting - optional for protoss, necessary for zerg (or else you'll overdrone, underdrone, or make the wrong counters).
It just takes half as much effort into the game whenever I roll terran or toss. this, why don't you just do it ? before posting a slightly disguised imba-whine thread? for the playerbase protoss has in gsl ( i think they suck mostly ) they are doing extremely well protoss players are really really bad as far as I can tell. resorting to all ins/gimmicky plays
Well, don't tell me protoss don"'t have the tools to win.
It's just, korean don't have a lot of good protoss in my opinion.
To me Korean toss players always seemed inferior to their terran and zerg brothers. So it's no wonder that they started to lose in the end. protoss still wins 66% against zerg you retards. protoss is just a flawed race where the best zerg can't do anything but the protoss can't win against terran because protoss is so easy they can't find a way to improve their play. if anything blizzard needs to remove the race from the game because P matchups are always boring, so much so that T can only go MMM and Z can only make roaches, unless it's some cutesy timing push or coinflip strat After someone said they wanted to switch to zerg: Go ahead. You won't last 5 games. Do it. You'll realise how good you Protoss have it and switch back. Go ahead and do it, you still wont be playing the hardest race. Protoss goes through one patch where they cant 1-a, and suddenly all the tosses start whining.
Saying that they wanna switch to zerg, its really funny.. Because the style u have to play to beat a protoss is insanely hard. Requires a metric tonne of multitasking and lots and lots of bases. Constantly reinforcing with diffrent types of army etc.. Not as easy as it looks... Whereas protoss can still win 50% of their games with a 3 base turtle into deathball. what units do you rely on the most? Colossus and Sentries. One unit is a-click and the other is F spam. Yes, Sentries actually do take some skill to use, but that is really the only thing you can improve upon as you get better and even then it's incredibly simplistic. The entire deathball mechanic also pretty much gets rid of any use for positioning apart from zealots at front at your one big control group. So what do I want? Forget the patches for the moment, I'm stick of being called unskilled by zerg players who have NO understanding whatsoever of protoss mechanics, and use Idra as their basis for claiming that they are underpowered. The best is that they talk about how easy force fielding is (im not saying it is hard, but one pixel left opened nullifies them) but then say that larva injecting is hard. Your race is not hard. Neither is mine, neither is terran. And can we stop with the whole protoss players suck argument. It makes no sense. And claiming that zergs stopped qqing is a joke. Scroll up. I've tried every race, but I could only play Zerg and keep my self respect. This is not a joke. Don't tell me I have no "understanding of Protoss mechanics". I was a P player, then a T player, then finally Z because I couldn't enjoy winning when I felt like a lameass. And compared to P, Z is really fucking hard. Try Z and see for yourself.
Thats kind of useless anecdotal evidence, and especially biased since you chose to play zerg. I play random and I think Darclite is right, zerg is no harder than the others. Which race you find hardest depends on your personal weakness. In my opinion its terran because micro is my weakness, but this assessment of difficulty is useless compared someone else who might not have difficulty with micro.
Also I always laugh at zergs complaining that all protoss does is a-move a deathball. If anything zerg is the a-move race, theres not very much micro involved with anything they do.
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On June 04 2011 07:56 vOdToasT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 07:49 Darclite wrote:Protoss is still the best race just bad players Zerg is not OP, and never has or will be. I feel like there just aren't many great korean protoss besides MC and Alicia. Zerg has Nestea, July, Losira, and some great up-and-comers like DRG and Min. And there are just a dickload of terran players, all with great potential (slayers, anyone?) that it makes the rest of the toss seem comparatively lack-luster. if you look at results only it looks bad. but if you watched the games, they played horribly. Protoss best race the strategy's are very easy to execute for toss right now the only thing that makes things different with players is just mechanic's/micro. Do switch to zerg. There is the unforgiving larva inject mechanism and the constant dilemma to drone or make army units, which tosses don't have to deal with. Switch and see how easy it is. As for me, whenever I get random protoss, all I have to do is turtle for 90% of the game and then a-move. Scouting - optional for protoss, necessary for zerg (or else you'll overdrone, underdrone, or make the wrong counters).
It just takes half as much effort into the game whenever I roll terran or toss. this, why don't you just do it ? before posting a slightly disguised imba-whine thread? for the playerbase protoss has in gsl ( i think they suck mostly ) they are doing extremely well protoss players are really really bad as far as I can tell. resorting to all ins/gimmicky plays
Well, don't tell me protoss don"'t have the tools to win.
It's just, korean don't have a lot of good protoss in my opinion.
To me Korean toss players always seemed inferior to their terran and zerg brothers. So it's no wonder that they started to lose in the end. protoss still wins 66% against zerg you retards. protoss is just a flawed race where the best zerg can't do anything but the protoss can't win against terran because protoss is so easy they can't find a way to improve their play. if anything blizzard needs to remove the race from the game because P matchups are always boring, so much so that T can only go MMM and Z can only make roaches, unless it's some cutesy timing push or coinflip strat After someone said they wanted to switch to zerg: Go ahead. You won't last 5 games. Do it. You'll realise how good you Protoss have it and switch back. Go ahead and do it, you still wont be playing the hardest race. Protoss goes through one patch where they cant 1-a, and suddenly all the tosses start whining.
Saying that they wanna switch to zerg, its really funny.. Because the style u have to play to beat a protoss is insanely hard. Requires a metric tonne of multitasking and lots and lots of bases. Constantly reinforcing with diffrent types of army etc.. Not as easy as it looks... Whereas protoss can still win 50% of their games with a 3 base turtle into deathball. what units do you rely on the most? Colossus and Sentries. One unit is a-click and the other is F spam. Yes, Sentries actually do take some skill to use, but that is really the only thing you can improve upon as you get better and even then it's incredibly simplistic. The entire deathball mechanic also pretty much gets rid of any use for positioning apart from zealots at front at your one big control group. So what do I want? Forget the patches for the moment, I'm stick of being called unskilled by zerg players who have NO understanding whatsoever of protoss mechanics, and use Idra as their basis for claiming that they are underpowered. The best is that they talk about how easy force fielding is (im not saying it is hard, but one pixel left opened nullifies them) but then say that larva injecting is hard. Your race is not hard. Neither is mine, neither is terran. And can we stop with the whole protoss players suck argument. It makes no sense. And claiming that zergs stopped qqing is a joke. Scroll up. I've tried every race, but I could only play Zerg and keep my self respect. This is not a joke. Don't tell me I have no "understanding of Protoss mechanics". I was a P player, then a T player, then finally Z because I couldn't enjoy winning when I felt like a lameass. And compared to P, Z is really fucking hard. Try Z and see for yourself.
I quit toss some odd months ago and hardcore trained my Z. I played T in the beta. I've played all 3 races fluently - I returned to toss, not because it's easier, but because I prefer it over Z. Z isn't harder. It's different. Get out of here with that "I have self respect" shit. All 3 races are equally challenging but with different mechanics. Comparing Terran to Zerg and Zerg to Protoss and Protoss to Terran is like comparing apples, oranges, and pears.
This thread is a damn nightmare. It's a train wreck.. why the hell hasn't it been closed yet ;;
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On June 04 2011 08:05 Disquiet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 07:56 vOdToasT wrote:On June 04 2011 07:49 Darclite wrote:Protoss is still the best race just bad players Zerg is not OP, and never has or will be. I feel like there just aren't many great korean protoss besides MC and Alicia. Zerg has Nestea, July, Losira, and some great up-and-comers like DRG and Min. And there are just a dickload of terran players, all with great potential (slayers, anyone?) that it makes the rest of the toss seem comparatively lack-luster. if you look at results only it looks bad. but if you watched the games, they played horribly. Protoss best race the strategy's are very easy to execute for toss right now the only thing that makes things different with players is just mechanic's/micro. Do switch to zerg. There is the unforgiving larva inject mechanism and the constant dilemma to drone or make army units, which tosses don't have to deal with. Switch and see how easy it is. As for me, whenever I get random protoss, all I have to do is turtle for 90% of the game and then a-move. Scouting - optional for protoss, necessary for zerg (or else you'll overdrone, underdrone, or make the wrong counters).
It just takes half as much effort into the game whenever I roll terran or toss. this, why don't you just do it ? before posting a slightly disguised imba-whine thread? for the playerbase protoss has in gsl ( i think they suck mostly ) they are doing extremely well protoss players are really really bad as far as I can tell. resorting to all ins/gimmicky plays
Well, don't tell me protoss don"'t have the tools to win.
It's just, korean don't have a lot of good protoss in my opinion.
To me Korean toss players always seemed inferior to their terran and zerg brothers. So it's no wonder that they started to lose in the end. protoss still wins 66% against zerg you retards. protoss is just a flawed race where the best zerg can't do anything but the protoss can't win against terran because protoss is so easy they can't find a way to improve their play. if anything blizzard needs to remove the race from the game because P matchups are always boring, so much so that T can only go MMM and Z can only make roaches, unless it's some cutesy timing push or coinflip strat After someone said they wanted to switch to zerg: Go ahead. You won't last 5 games. Do it. You'll realise how good you Protoss have it and switch back. Go ahead and do it, you still wont be playing the hardest race. Protoss goes through one patch where they cant 1-a, and suddenly all the tosses start whining.
Saying that they wanna switch to zerg, its really funny.. Because the style u have to play to beat a protoss is insanely hard. Requires a metric tonne of multitasking and lots and lots of bases. Constantly reinforcing with diffrent types of army etc.. Not as easy as it looks... Whereas protoss can still win 50% of their games with a 3 base turtle into deathball. what units do you rely on the most? Colossus and Sentries. One unit is a-click and the other is F spam. Yes, Sentries actually do take some skill to use, but that is really the only thing you can improve upon as you get better and even then it's incredibly simplistic. The entire deathball mechanic also pretty much gets rid of any use for positioning apart from zealots at front at your one big control group. So what do I want? Forget the patches for the moment, I'm stick of being called unskilled by zerg players who have NO understanding whatsoever of protoss mechanics, and use Idra as their basis for claiming that they are underpowered. The best is that they talk about how easy force fielding is (im not saying it is hard, but one pixel left opened nullifies them) but then say that larva injecting is hard. Your race is not hard. Neither is mine, neither is terran. And can we stop with the whole protoss players suck argument. It makes no sense. And claiming that zergs stopped qqing is a joke. Scroll up. I've tried every race, but I could only play Zerg and keep my self respect. This is not a joke. Don't tell me I have no "understanding of Protoss mechanics". I was a P player, then a T player, then finally Z because I couldn't enjoy winning when I felt like a lameass. And compared to P, Z is really fucking hard. Try Z and see for yourself. Thats kind of useless anecdotal evidence, and especially biased since you chose to play zerg. I play random and I think Darclite is right, zerg is no harder than the others. Which race you find hardest depends on your personal weakness. In my opinion its terran because micro is my weakness, but this assessment of difficulty is useless compared someone else who might not have difficulty with micro. Also I always laugh at zergs complaining that all protoss does is a-move a deathball. If anything zerg is the a-move race, theres not very much micro involved with anything they do.
I'd disagree completely, Zerg doesn't require anywhere near as much micro as Terran, but it requires just as much, if not more, micro than toss. You have to be burrowing roaches, moving them under ffs, fungling, dropping banelings, making sure BLs are in safe positions, etc.
Although I'd agree that the "hardest" race depends completely on your weaknesses/strengths of the player.
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On June 04 2011 08:05 Skwid1g wrote:
I've never understood why protoss players seem to hate the warp prism, it's a very good unit, against zergs at least.
dude there is this unit. its like the warp prism but like static. only costs half the money. i see alot of protoss use it.
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On June 04 2011 07:56 vOdToasT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 07:49 Darclite wrote:Protoss is still the best race just bad players Zerg is not OP, and never has or will be. I feel like there just aren't many great korean protoss besides MC and Alicia. Zerg has Nestea, July, Losira, and some great up-and-comers like DRG and Min. And there are just a dickload of terran players, all with great potential (slayers, anyone?) that it makes the rest of the toss seem comparatively lack-luster. if you look at results only it looks bad. but if you watched the games, they played horribly. Protoss best race the strategy's are very easy to execute for toss right now the only thing that makes things different with players is just mechanic's/micro. Do switch to zerg. There is the unforgiving larva inject mechanism and the constant dilemma to drone or make army units, which tosses don't have to deal with. Switch and see how easy it is. As for me, whenever I get random protoss, all I have to do is turtle for 90% of the game and then a-move. Scouting - optional for protoss, necessary for zerg (or else you'll overdrone, underdrone, or make the wrong counters).
It just takes half as much effort into the game whenever I roll terran or toss. this, why don't you just do it ? before posting a slightly disguised imba-whine thread? for the playerbase protoss has in gsl ( i think they suck mostly ) they are doing extremely well protoss players are really really bad as far as I can tell. resorting to all ins/gimmicky plays
Well, don't tell me protoss don"'t have the tools to win.
It's just, korean don't have a lot of good protoss in my opinion.
To me Korean toss players always seemed inferior to their terran and zerg brothers. So it's no wonder that they started to lose in the end. protoss still wins 66% against zerg you retards. protoss is just a flawed race where the best zerg can't do anything but the protoss can't win against terran because protoss is so easy they can't find a way to improve their play. if anything blizzard needs to remove the race from the game because P matchups are always boring, so much so that T can only go MMM and Z can only make roaches, unless it's some cutesy timing push or coinflip strat After someone said they wanted to switch to zerg: Go ahead. You won't last 5 games. Do it. You'll realise how good you Protoss have it and switch back. Go ahead and do it, you still wont be playing the hardest race. Protoss goes through one patch where they cant 1-a, and suddenly all the tosses start whining.
Saying that they wanna switch to zerg, its really funny.. Because the style u have to play to beat a protoss is insanely hard. Requires a metric tonne of multitasking and lots and lots of bases. Constantly reinforcing with diffrent types of army etc.. Not as easy as it looks... Whereas protoss can still win 50% of their games with a 3 base turtle into deathball. what units do you rely on the most? Colossus and Sentries. One unit is a-click and the other is F spam. Yes, Sentries actually do take some skill to use, but that is really the only thing you can improve upon as you get better and even then it's incredibly simplistic. The entire deathball mechanic also pretty much gets rid of any use for positioning apart from zealots at front at your one big control group. So what do I want? Forget the patches for the moment, I'm stick of being called unskilled by zerg players who have NO understanding whatsoever of protoss mechanics, and use Idra as their basis for claiming that they are underpowered. The best is that they talk about how easy force fielding is (im not saying it is hard, but one pixel left opened nullifies them) but then say that larva injecting is hard. Your race is not hard. Neither is mine, neither is terran. And can we stop with the whole protoss players suck argument. It makes no sense. And claiming that zergs stopped qqing is a joke. Scroll up. I've tried every race, but I could only play Zerg and keep my self respect. This is not a joke. Don't tell me I have no "understanding of Protoss mechanics". I was a P player, then a T player, then finally Z because I couldn't enjoy winning when I felt like a lameass. And compared to P, Z is really fucking hard. Try Z and see for yourself.
Zerg maybe somewhat hard, but you don't need to play perfectly to win. There are more Zergs than Terrans in Masters and they are reaching they point where they are equaling the Protoss in representation yet they are the least played race in this game.
I've never understood why protoss players seem to hate the warp prism, it's a very good unit, against zergs at least.
What Morrow thinks: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=218687¤tpage=20#384
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yeah i guess sometimes stuff like that happens :/ kinda sux too see that as a toss player
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On June 04 2011 08:09 leecH wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 08:05 Skwid1g wrote:
I've never understood why protoss players seem to hate the warp prism, it's a very good unit, against zergs at least.
dude there is this unit. its like the warp prism but like static. only costs half the money. i see alot of protoss use it.
Dude, the fact that it's static is like, the reason it's worse than a warp prism.
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On June 04 2011 08:05 Skwid1g wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 07:47 HolyHenk wrote:
The real weakness of the protoss is it very limited amount of options. Not only unit options but also usage options.
The unit options are a complete joke! Carriers, Mothership, Warp Prisms are basicly all useless. DT is a dangerous unit to get because its countered really easy. This doesn't really leave a lot of units left considering that you always need zealots stalkers sentries and observers. You can then chose between HT, Voidray, Phoenixes, Immortal and Colosus. Phoenixes are only used in openings to ensure map control in the early game and very rarely in the late game . The same goes for voidrays although they sometimes get massed in the late game. This leaves you with only 3 options of which immortals are only viable against certain units.
The options for unit usage is the biggest problem. Protoss got no harass options but phoenixes which are so easily countered. Warp prisms are too dangerous to use because they get shot down instantly and got no futher usage like medivacs and overlords. Protoss can't attack at multiple places because their units are inefficient in small numbers and are slow. Protoss can't put pressure without risking the loss of their entire army. Their units are slow and can never retreat. Protoss only got 1 interesting mechanic: The forcefield. This ability makes the difference in every battle. And if you take it away (EMPS) ! You are basicly dead.
Due to this protoss is either forced to defend all game and make the feared deathball or they have to do some sort of timing/all in push. I've never understood why protoss players seem to hate the warp prism, it's a very good unit, against zergs at least. And, using your logic in ZvP, late game zerlings are bad, roaches are bad, hydras are bad, brood lords are bad, ultras are bad, which leaves infestors and maybe banelings/corruptors. You can always talk about how easily X units are countered, but that's not the way to judge a MU. You also completely forgot archons, which are great against zerg.
Let me guess you are a zerg player? Every zerg player always goes but why don't protoss use warp prisms more??!?!?
Try it yourself, fail, and then you'll see that its made of glass, is expensive, wastes valuable robo production time and in 90% of cases a pylon is the cheaper alternative. Warp in mechanics make dropping gateway units unnecessary, which means its main use is dropping robo units, which honestly just isn't very effective for the risk you're taking.
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On June 04 2011 08:11 Disquiet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 08:05 Skwid1g wrote:On June 04 2011 07:47 HolyHenk wrote:
The real weakness of the protoss is it very limited amount of options. Not only unit options but also usage options.
The unit options are a complete joke! Carriers, Mothership, Warp Prisms are basicly all useless. DT is a dangerous unit to get because its countered really easy. This doesn't really leave a lot of units left considering that you always need zealots stalkers sentries and observers. You can then chose between HT, Voidray, Phoenixes, Immortal and Colosus. Phoenixes are only used in openings to ensure map control in the early game and very rarely in the late game . The same goes for voidrays although they sometimes get massed in the late game. This leaves you with only 3 options of which immortals are only viable against certain units.
The options for unit usage is the biggest problem. Protoss got no harass options but phoenixes which are so easily countered. Warp prisms are too dangerous to use because they get shot down instantly and got no futher usage like medivacs and overlords. Protoss can't attack at multiple places because their units are inefficient in small numbers and are slow. Protoss can't put pressure without risking the loss of their entire army. Their units are slow and can never retreat. Protoss only got 1 interesting mechanic: The forcefield. This ability makes the difference in every battle. And if you take it away (EMPS) ! You are basicly dead.
Due to this protoss is either forced to defend all game and make the feared deathball or they have to do some sort of timing/all in push. I've never understood why protoss players seem to hate the warp prism, it's a very good unit, against zergs at least. And, using your logic in ZvP, late game zerlings are bad, roaches are bad, hydras are bad, brood lords are bad, ultras are bad, which leaves infestors and maybe banelings/corruptors. You can always talk about how easily X units are countered, but that's not the way to judge a MU. You also completely forgot archons, which are great against zerg. Let me guess you are a zerg player? Every zerg player always goes but why don't protoss use warp prisms more??!?!? Try it yourself, fail, and then you'll see that its made of glass, is expensive, wastes valuable robo production time and in 90% of cases a pylon is the cheaper alternative. Warp in mechanics make dropping gateway units unnecessary, which means its main use is dropping robo units, which honestly just isn't very effective for the risk you're taking.
I play random and have success with warp prisms all the time, it costs 200 minerals, nothing more. And your opponent lets you get pylons in his base, wut?
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On June 04 2011 08:08 DuckS wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 07:56 vOdToasT wrote:On June 04 2011 07:49 Darclite wrote:Protoss is still the best race just bad players Zerg is not OP, and never has or will be. I feel like there just aren't many great korean protoss besides MC and Alicia. Zerg has Nestea, July, Losira, and some great up-and-comers like DRG and Min. And there are just a dickload of terran players, all with great potential (slayers, anyone?) that it makes the rest of the toss seem comparatively lack-luster. if you look at results only it looks bad. but if you watched the games, they played horribly. Protoss best race the strategy's are very easy to execute for toss right now the only thing that makes things different with players is just mechanic's/micro. Do switch to zerg. There is the unforgiving larva inject mechanism and the constant dilemma to drone or make army units, which tosses don't have to deal with. Switch and see how easy it is. As for me, whenever I get random protoss, all I have to do is turtle for 90% of the game and then a-move. Scouting - optional for protoss, necessary for zerg (or else you'll overdrone, underdrone, or make the wrong counters).
It just takes half as much effort into the game whenever I roll terran or toss. this, why don't you just do it ? before posting a slightly disguised imba-whine thread? for the playerbase protoss has in gsl ( i think they suck mostly ) they are doing extremely well protoss players are really really bad as far as I can tell. resorting to all ins/gimmicky plays
Well, don't tell me protoss don"'t have the tools to win.
It's just, korean don't have a lot of good protoss in my opinion.
To me Korean toss players always seemed inferior to their terran and zerg brothers. So it's no wonder that they started to lose in the end. protoss still wins 66% against zerg you retards. protoss is just a flawed race where the best zerg can't do anything but the protoss can't win against terran because protoss is so easy they can't find a way to improve their play. if anything blizzard needs to remove the race from the game because P matchups are always boring, so much so that T can only go MMM and Z can only make roaches, unless it's some cutesy timing push or coinflip strat After someone said they wanted to switch to zerg: Go ahead. You won't last 5 games. Do it. You'll realise how good you Protoss have it and switch back. Go ahead and do it, you still wont be playing the hardest race. Protoss goes through one patch where they cant 1-a, and suddenly all the tosses start whining.
Saying that they wanna switch to zerg, its really funny.. Because the style u have to play to beat a protoss is insanely hard. Requires a metric tonne of multitasking and lots and lots of bases. Constantly reinforcing with diffrent types of army etc.. Not as easy as it looks... Whereas protoss can still win 50% of their games with a 3 base turtle into deathball. what units do you rely on the most? Colossus and Sentries. One unit is a-click and the other is F spam. Yes, Sentries actually do take some skill to use, but that is really the only thing you can improve upon as you get better and even then it's incredibly simplistic. The entire deathball mechanic also pretty much gets rid of any use for positioning apart from zealots at front at your one big control group. So what do I want? Forget the patches for the moment, I'm stick of being called unskilled by zerg players who have NO understanding whatsoever of protoss mechanics, and use Idra as their basis for claiming that they are underpowered. The best is that they talk about how easy force fielding is (im not saying it is hard, but one pixel left opened nullifies them) but then say that larva injecting is hard. Your race is not hard. Neither is mine, neither is terran. And can we stop with the whole protoss players suck argument. It makes no sense. And claiming that zergs stopped qqing is a joke. Scroll up. I've tried every race, but I could only play Zerg and keep my self respect. This is not a joke. Don't tell me I have no "understanding of Protoss mechanics". I was a P player, then a T player, then finally Z because I couldn't enjoy winning when I felt like a lameass. And compared to P, Z is really fucking hard. Try Z and see for yourself. I quit toss some odd months ago and hardcore trained my Z. I played T in the beta. I've played all 3 races fluently - I returned to toss, not because it's easier, but because I prefer it over Z. Z isn't harder. It's different. Get out of here with that "I have self respect" shit. All 3 races are equally challenging but with different mechanics. Comparing Terran to Zerg and Zerg to Protoss and Protoss to Terran is like comparing apples, oranges, and pears. This thread is a damn nightmare. It's a train wreck.. why the hell hasn't it been closed yet ;;
T and Z are equally challenging but with difficult mechanics. P isn't. And my talk about self respect isn't bullshit, it's the truth. I played P in SC1 but I really can't enjoy it in SC2.
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On June 04 2011 08:12 vOdToasT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 08:08 DuckS wrote:On June 04 2011 07:56 vOdToasT wrote:On June 04 2011 07:49 Darclite wrote:Protoss is still the best race just bad players Zerg is not OP, and never has or will be. I feel like there just aren't many great korean protoss besides MC and Alicia. Zerg has Nestea, July, Losira, and some great up-and-comers like DRG and Min. And there are just a dickload of terran players, all with great potential (slayers, anyone?) that it makes the rest of the toss seem comparatively lack-luster. if you look at results only it looks bad. but if you watched the games, they played horribly. Protoss best race the strategy's are very easy to execute for toss right now the only thing that makes things different with players is just mechanic's/micro. Do switch to zerg. There is the unforgiving larva inject mechanism and the constant dilemma to drone or make army units, which tosses don't have to deal with. Switch and see how easy it is. As for me, whenever I get random protoss, all I have to do is turtle for 90% of the game and then a-move. Scouting - optional for protoss, necessary for zerg (or else you'll overdrone, underdrone, or make the wrong counters).
It just takes half as much effort into the game whenever I roll terran or toss. this, why don't you just do it ? before posting a slightly disguised imba-whine thread? for the playerbase protoss has in gsl ( i think they suck mostly ) they are doing extremely well protoss players are really really bad as far as I can tell. resorting to all ins/gimmicky plays
Well, don't tell me protoss don"'t have the tools to win.
It's just, korean don't have a lot of good protoss in my opinion.
To me Korean toss players always seemed inferior to their terran and zerg brothers. So it's no wonder that they started to lose in the end. protoss still wins 66% against zerg you retards. protoss is just a flawed race where the best zerg can't do anything but the protoss can't win against terran because protoss is so easy they can't find a way to improve their play. if anything blizzard needs to remove the race from the game because P matchups are always boring, so much so that T can only go MMM and Z can only make roaches, unless it's some cutesy timing push or coinflip strat After someone said they wanted to switch to zerg: Go ahead. You won't last 5 games. Do it. You'll realise how good you Protoss have it and switch back. Go ahead and do it, you still wont be playing the hardest race. Protoss goes through one patch where they cant 1-a, and suddenly all the tosses start whining.
Saying that they wanna switch to zerg, its really funny.. Because the style u have to play to beat a protoss is insanely hard. Requires a metric tonne of multitasking and lots and lots of bases. Constantly reinforcing with diffrent types of army etc.. Not as easy as it looks... Whereas protoss can still win 50% of their games with a 3 base turtle into deathball. what units do you rely on the most? Colossus and Sentries. One unit is a-click and the other is F spam. Yes, Sentries actually do take some skill to use, but that is really the only thing you can improve upon as you get better and even then it's incredibly simplistic. The entire deathball mechanic also pretty much gets rid of any use for positioning apart from zealots at front at your one big control group. So what do I want? Forget the patches for the moment, I'm stick of being called unskilled by zerg players who have NO understanding whatsoever of protoss mechanics, and use Idra as their basis for claiming that they are underpowered. The best is that they talk about how easy force fielding is (im not saying it is hard, but one pixel left opened nullifies them) but then say that larva injecting is hard. Your race is not hard. Neither is mine, neither is terran. And can we stop with the whole protoss players suck argument. It makes no sense. And claiming that zergs stopped qqing is a joke. Scroll up. I've tried every race, but I could only play Zerg and keep my self respect. This is not a joke. Don't tell me I have no "understanding of Protoss mechanics". I was a P player, then a T player, then finally Z because I couldn't enjoy winning when I felt like a lameass. And compared to P, Z is really fucking hard. Try Z and see for yourself. I quit toss some odd months ago and hardcore trained my Z. I played T in the beta. I've played all 3 races fluently - I returned to toss, not because it's easier, but because I prefer it over Z. Z isn't harder. It's different. Get out of here with that "I have self respect" shit. All 3 races are equally challenging but with different mechanics. Comparing Terran to Zerg and Zerg to Protoss and Protoss to Terran is like comparing apples, oranges, and pears. This thread is a damn nightmare. It's a train wreck.. why the hell hasn't it been closed yet ;; T and Z are equally challenging but with difficult mechanics. P isn't. And my talk about self respect isn't bullshit, it's the truth. I played P in SC1 but I really can't enjoy it in SC2.
no, it's bullshit. and what I quoted.. take a screen shot and take it to the doctor, you may need a cat scan. making bold statements with little evidence is a laughable response. after you get that cat scan i suggest you take up comedy
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I think the lack of results is due to 4gate nerf and players have yet to figure themselves out. Players like MC got through on the power of 4gating alot....
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I've tried every race, but I could only play Zerg and keep my self respect. This is not a joke. Don't tell me I have no "understanding of Protoss mechanics". I was a P player, then a T player, then finally Z because I couldn't enjoy winning when I felt like a lameass.
And compared to P, Z is really fucking hard. Try Z and see for yourself.
In my my humble mid-masters experience, ive found the exact opposite to be true. I think maybe its your playstyle that leads you to play a more turtle-based style. That's the sound of it anyways and thats what Ive found to be true of most zerg players ive had discussions with about PvZ/ZvP... Zerg players for a long time just concentrated on trying not to die and getting a shitload of bases, but that didnt work vs. the deathball. Now there is a sense of timing from zergs. You can check my posts from months ago ive always felt like zergs were just missing their timings and my first example of a zerg that actually nailed every ZvP timing in a tournament setting was a tournament morrow won about 5 months ago or so.. I want to say IEM or something... i cant remember don't care to really.
I think its a stylistic choice. If you aren't comfortable attacking and relying on timings, you can do quite well as protoss with a defensive style. Zerg kind of forces you to be out on the map. You CAN be out on the map as protoss, but its much more difficult because of the way protoss units dont work so well on their own. This is why you see protoss players playing defensively and gearing up for a big attack or an all-in. If we could run around with speedlings or had roaches that move faster than stalkers off creep and are very cheap to lose, protoss could move around more... but a protoss army doesnt reward the player for being out and about... in fact it punishes it.
I think perhaps the reason you feel zerg is so difficult is because you're not comfortable playing aggressive and zergs arent rewarded for turtling like they are with being active with their combat units. I have an 'out and about' protoss style, and by that i mean constant aggression (random aggression never works). So you should try being an active player... give it a shot... move around the map and dont turtle... you'll find your Z improves dramatically as well as your understanding of RTS games as that seems to be severely lacking based on your comments
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On June 04 2011 02:52 Cthun wrote:Hello, This is a spoiler thread, so if you haven't watched the GSL, but still want to do it, do not open the rest of it... You've been warned.+ Show Spoiler +Right now as I'm watching the GSL super tournament on GOMTV, it is depressing to see how the badly the protoss players are doing. Most of the protoss are losing left and right to other races, with only HuK and MC still playing decent. It was nice to see how Trickster played, but now, even he is out...
Makes me want to switch to zerg :/
What do you guys think?
wow sucks
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On June 04 2011 08:20 Jayrod wrote:Show nested quote +
I've tried every race, but I could only play Zerg and keep my self respect. This is not a joke. Don't tell me I have no "understanding of Protoss mechanics". I was a P player, then a T player, then finally Z because I couldn't enjoy winning when I felt like a lameass.
And compared to P, Z is really fucking hard. Try Z and see for yourself.
In my my humble mid-masters experience, ive found the exact opposite to be true. I think maybe its your playstyle that leads you to play a more turtle-based style. That's the sound of it anyways and thats what Ive found to be true of most zerg players ive had discussions with about PvZ/ZvP... Zerg players for a long time just concentrated on trying not to die and getting a shitload of bases, but that didnt work vs. the deathball. Now there is a sense of timing from zergs. You can check my posts from months ago ive always felt like zergs were just missing their timings and my first example of a zerg that actually nailed every ZvP timing in a tournament setting was a tournament morrow won about 5 months ago or so.. I want to say IEM or something... i cant remember don't care to really. I think its a stylistic choice. If you aren't comfortable attacking and relying on timings, you can do quite well as protoss with a defensive style. Zerg kind of forces you to be out on the map. You CAN be out on the map as protoss, but its much more difficult because of the way protoss units dont work so well on their own. This is why you see protoss players playing defensively and gearing up for a big attack or an all-in. If we could run around with speedlings or had roaches that move faster than stalkers off creep and are very cheap to lose, protoss could move around more... but a protoss army doesnt reward the player for being out and about... in fact it punishes it. I think perhaps the reason you feel zerg is so difficult is because you're not comfortable playing aggressive and zergs arent rewarded for turtling like they are with being active with their combat units. I have an 'out and about' protoss style, and by that i mean constant aggression (random aggression never works). So you should try being an active player... give it a shot... move around the map and dont turtle... you'll find your Z improves dramatically as well as your understanding of RTS games as that seems to be severely lacking based on your comments
Actually, multitasking, multi-pronged attacks, and harassment is what I'm best at. And I don't think Z is that hard, I just think P is easy. Z and T seem about equal in difficulty, they're just hard at different things.
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I'm a high masters protoss player (hover 900-1200 depending) and I feel the same way. Any aggression and I'm pretty much allin. I feel clunky and am forced to turtle and do a lil drop harass or catch players at ramps with forcefields.
I switched to zerg just for fun and not knowing any hotkeys or anything general strategy I've managed to win half my ladder games. Zerg macro is just easy, I place my overlords and drone til no tomorrow and react accordingly. Years of protoss and only a few days of zerg and my zerg is almost on par with my protoss play. I don't have to worry about forcefielding anything. I literally have to just keep tabs on my enemy and I can make units or workers. I don't ever feel like I lose the game over one mistake like I do with protoss.
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On June 04 2011 08:11 Skwid1g wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 08:09 leecH wrote:On June 04 2011 08:05 Skwid1g wrote:
I've never understood why protoss players seem to hate the warp prism, it's a very good unit, against zergs at least.
dude there is this unit. its like the warp prism but like static. only costs half the money. i see alot of protoss use it. Dude, the fact that it's static is like, the reason it's worse than a warp prism.
dude, the static one gives like supply. the other one takes supply. oh boy im goood at balance discussion.
.......... im just talking shit but since everyone here is just writing shit without much to back it up ill keep trolling the shit out of this thread. where are all the sc1 veterans try to calm people down with stuff like "matchups change.. the game changes.. someday a player will pop out and change the match up"..
maybe i should go back to play fps´. calling other people fags is so much easier way to insult each other.
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Did one of you (toss) ever tried to drop templars ?
I ask a friend of mine (top eu master). He never did, because it's 'useless'. Same for Dark templars. As a zerg player, I love when a toss sticks to an outdated style and QQ after being crushed into oblivion.
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On June 04 2011 08:31 Erasme wrote:
Did one of you (toss) ever tried to drop templars ?
I ask a friend of mine (top eu master). He never did, because it's 'useless'. Same for Dark templars. As a zerg player, I love when a toss sticks to an outdated style and QQ after being crushed into oblivion.
Storm drops aren't that good vs a player who has map awareness. The investment in gas is huge, and you are unlikely to kill many drones at all vs a good Zerg. He just has to move his drones.
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EPT
