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On June 04 2011 05:12 Beyonder wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 05:11 Steel wrote:On June 04 2011 04:58 QTIP. wrote:On June 04 2011 04:52 Steel wrote:Let's take a look at the PvZ and PvT played so far. Warning: This spoiler is a short summary of every played game yet. The official report of the R64 is out. If you haven't seen them and don't want to get spoiled..you know what to do. + Show Spoiler +Round of 64MVP vs Creator - Great series, Creator took a game off the amazing MVP so I don't think this says much about the state of the protoss. MVP > Creator so he won like it should be. Of course, this is based on past results, but you can't say that MVP is trash and that he didn't deserve the win. He played well. Inca vs Ryung - ....Terran is pretty good at stopping all-ins? Dumb series tbh. If you are mad because protoss all-ins aren't working anymore, don't switch to zerg you'll be disapointed. jookTo vs Anypro - G1 he wanted to hit a timing, and so did JookTo. Anypro turned around. When do you win when you turn around? Never. Poor decision making by Anypro. Game 2: Kind of like zerg vs 4gate, if you have no idea it's coming you're going to lose. Yet, we notice Protoss stopping a zerg all in with no units. I'd like to zerg stop 4gate with only spines  The versatility of Protoss not matched by Zerg, so don't complain about that. Zerg one base SUCKS as seen in this game. Game 3: Interesting roach/baneling-centric style from jookto, Anypro not responding properly. He should of sit back, got collosi, got many forcefield and ROLLED over jookto. Again, Anypro didn't respond correctly to Jookto's unit composition. Imba? Then collosi/gatewayunits is imba because you can't kill roach hydra. Trickster vs Yugioh - Lol.Yugioh got rolled over, with non-standard play too. Protoss still has very many options. Genius vs Boxer - Good series. Genius played well and Boxer did several mistakes, Genius won. Makes sense... Fruitdealer vs Ace - Good example of Protoss winning games they shouldn't. Squirtles vs Marineking - Squirtle scouted poorly and didn't see the timings coming. He wasn't prepared, he lost. End of story. How many times have Protoss been victor in these types of scenarios? Look at Ace. He won IEM with one build. Byun vs Legalmind - Should terrible players win? ... Kyrix vs Vanvanth - read ^ Choya vs Zenio - Choya won doing allins. Did you notice in the Round of 64 how many protoss players won with standard play? Those who played standard always did quite well. There's not many great standard protoss players. Are you mad because all-ins are so effective anymore? Round of 32TheBest vs Trickster - Nice all in from theBest. He got pretty lucky and I don't personally think he should of won but timings are timings and theBest had good micro while Trickster showed some poor decision making in G3 so it's a player thing not a race thing. Genius vs Min - One of the best ZvP in this tournament so far. Game 1: Trickster got really greedy with his tech. He got a third base without robo = without scouting, and he lost. If protoss 6 gates and zerg doesn't get burrow and a lot of units zerg loses, so if roaches are imba, 6 gate is imba, 4 gate is imba, anything is. The point is, you can't just expand without tech and scouting information, especially when your opponent has the tech to punish it. Game 2: Genius lost too many probes to baneling drops, did some dumb moving around while Min got thousands of mutas. Interview with Min: Min said he the best way to beat Genius was with mutas. Did Genius know about this weakness? Did he adjust his play to Min's style? Doesn't look like it since he got ouplayed hard, I don't think the player didn't deserve to win. VERY DISAPOINTING pheonix control. Like masters player can outrun mutas I was laughing. Revival vs HongUn - Revival looked at HongUn's replays, which featured the same build over and over again. He found a weakness, exploited it. He deserved to win because HongUn changed nothing in his play, which was not that safe afterall. Conclusion: I don't know what you're complaining about. It seems to me like you're complaining that those fucking terrible players who got past the round of 64 doing all-ins all the time are not winning anymore and so you're mad. Protoss players who played standard did great, the Creator vs MVP games were way too close in my opinion. Protoss is really strong race but the thing about all-ins is if they don't work you lose. TL;DR: Protoss is a great race just bad players. annnnnd here we go. I think it's kind of silly too look at the GSL since most Protoss players all-ined. Macro protosses are rare and those who exist have been doing quite well. Which macro protosses are you talking about?
Macro players in general are rare these days, most zerg wins have come from abusive timing pushes, and basically ALL terran wins nowadays come from abusive timing pushes (save from a couple players like nestea, mvp and etc). Protoss is actually the one that wins most "macro" matches with their "deathballs", idk what you're talking about
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On June 04 2011 05:41 Reborn8u wrote:
Well Artosis did switch to Protoss, so I guess they kind of have to be the worst race now. Sorry guys it's a long held starcraft tradition.
I totally forgot that artosis switched to protoss and he was the guy who was QQing the most in every single cast about terran timings and how if not taken proper precautions that they become so unbelievably unstoppable. Especially 2 rax which is pretty much a standard and laughable omg you loss to that build sort of thing..
Zergs, look at artosis and look back at yourself and smack yourself in the face and wake up from reality. You aren't special, and every race has its perks.
If protoss is clearly that easy then artosis shouldn't be doing so bad considering he is the "Zerg" who switched to "Protoss" scenario.
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Protoss is neither underpowered nor overpowered and even if they are it's impossible to show 100% that they are.
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Wait for the Chinese to come to the GSL, dude. They'll tear everything up with their mass Blink Stalkers.
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On June 04 2011 05:41 Reborn8u wrote:
Well Artosis did switch to Protoss, so I guess they kind of have to be the worst race now. Sorry guys it's a long held starcraft tradition.
Ahaha!!! Point taken. For the longest time, I had a really hard time against protoss but now that the game has developed a little bit more, they are probably my best match up. ZvP used to be a nightmare but there are now so many ways to beat Protoss other than the old standard Roach/Hydra/Corruptor that it makes it harder for them to know what you are going to do. In the early days, they pretty much knew what you were going to do every game and it just came down to execution, now, since you have more options, it is harder for Protoss to just blindly follow their build order.
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On June 04 2011 03:46 Reborn8u wrote:
I can't believe some of the stuff I'm reading in this thread, some the comments would only make sense 6 months ago. With the buffs to zerg and nerfs to toss along with lingering undressed issues, protoss is not what it once was. I personally think that the nerfs designed to "fix" pvp, put protoss over the tipping point and have hurt toss greatly in every matchup. A 4 gate rush in pvp is still hard to stop if you don't have 4 gates, but in the other matchups I don't think it's that people can't win by 4 gating but that the threat isn't there. I loved 4 gating zergs, but it was razor thin whether or not it held and game deciding. With that threat being 20 seconds later, it is 2x easier for zerg to hold. Also, that 20 seconds also means that when a protoss 3gate expands against zerg they only have 3 or 4 units and warp isn't done when they want to put down the nexus. Just setting back every potential warp in 20 seconds has opened the door for zergs to deny the natural. Meanwhile zerg can expand at 15 food and toss can't do anything but try to force a few units early instead of drones.
Another issue for protoss in every matchup is that protoss is very reliant on FF's and Colossus. When zergs deal with FF's by doing bane drops or roach burrow, it looks like most protoss's (at least that I've seen) don't have any answer. Terrans are getting emp earlier and 1 good emp is GG, people say "spread out your units" but there are situations where you can't do that, like when defending a ramp or pretty much anytime you engage a bio ball early to mid game, if your army spreads out, it will get stim-a moved and evaporate. Colossus are getting hard countered by vikings, corruptors, and neural parasite. When a zerg fungals the death ball, there is nothing protoss can do but watch, it stops your air, your blink, pulling your colossus back.
Also, the cost to get blink and charge are absurd if you compare them to any other upgrades for zerg or terrans early units. For example the cost to get twilight and charge is the same as a terran getting a tech lab + stim + combat shield + concussive. The stalker is a huge issue too, toss has to use them, but their long cooldown combined with only getting +1 per upgrade means that the more upgrades terran or zerg gets the worse stalkers scale against them. When you realize that 1 stalker has a slightly lower dps than a single UNstimmed marine, and that they can afford almost 4 marines for the cost of 1 stalker, or that roaches can me made almost 2 to 1 for cost and scale better with upgrades it makes it clear that stalkers are terrible for their cost. Colossus have become a liability for protoss in many ways as well because of the continuing trend towards macro heavy play and macro maps. Colossus slow down the protoss army, and they must be protected, and for you opponent they are always expected. It gets very difficult to defend your bases after the 3rd because protoss can't just throw units away and it's very hard to split your army and deal with threats at multiple locations cost effectively.
Then there are issues with unit counters, hydras are excellent against zealots and stalkers, but they also rape immortals and voids. MM does great against zealots and stalkers, but marines also rape voids and immortals. But toss needs obs so the only safe and logical option is colossus.
As it is, protoss has to back its self into a corner or choke and use FF and Colossus so the range of its units can make its dps higher than the front line their opponents, but it has slowly been figured out how to deal with FF's and Colossus. The protoss army gets crushed $ for $ to almost anything without FF, and colossus.
I have little hope that any of this will be corrected until HOTS. I think there are core design issues with protoss that require the addition of units and abilities, or the removal of some from other races for the issue to be worked out.
FF are absolutely at the base of all the problems, they are too strong in some situations. But once the opponent has a tech to make them ineffective toss is really handicapped. I think the same is true for colossus.
BTW this whole argument that all the toss players are just not as good as the other races players is complete bullshit. It's just like how Terran has had better tourney results than toss and zerg combined and had 40-50% of the top 200 throughout Sc2's history and people say "well that just means that better players choose terran" If you honestly believe it works like that, your logic is so flawed it makes 99% of what you say worth ignoring.
perfect post. Also wanna add into it is Vikings and Corruptors own colossus, carriers and mothership so hard. That's why I don't want to use mothership and carriers at all. May be a buff for mothership's speed or carriers. Otherwise they're suck so bad, and everything have to come down to ground armies again.
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As for all of those worrying about my MC note, I simply forgot about him getting beat by Alicia. As you can see a few posts after I described how Alicia outmicro'ed him to pieces.Clearly I've seen the match (:
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Protoss just simply has too many design flaws. I don't think it's imbalanced, it's just that the early game in Starcraft 2 is stupi. The developers said that they are thinking about buffing tier 1 scouting options for Heart of the Swarm which is a big deal. People call MC greedy but he is the only protoss who does well. Why? Because protoss early game is a complete coin flip. Either you hard counter, counter decently, or outright lose to other build orders. If you play completely safe you are far, far behind if you two gate robo and your opponent 1 rax CC'd, which is impossible to scout after the first marine is out until an observer goes into their base (quite a long time inbetween). Sometimes MC plays "greedy" by going 1 gate fast expand and looks retarded against one base terran pressure that wipes him out, but that's no more greedy than a 1rax CC which is completely unpunishable if they have a bunker. But a marauder costs less than a stalker and destroys it absolutely, a zealot is worthless against anything but lings, and sentries have the damage output of a feather.
Protoss decides to go air? If the zerg made a couple queens and a spore or two your entire tech path has become a worthless gas heavy investment. Robo is required to move out against roaches due to tunneling claws, an amazing ability where a roach that costs literally half of a stalker but is almost as good (and scales better with upgrades) can pop up on your entire army and wipe it all away. Maybe reducing the build time for observer and boosting the speed would help? Because those things take forever to come out for literally NO reason and they're worthlessly slow, and no one gets the upgrade. Hallucination is a huge 100/100 early game investment and becomes completely obsolete once the robo is out anyway---and robo is absolutely necessary for detection.
I'm just hoping Heart of the Swarm makes this game less luck-based for everyone. Any mediocre player can get a build order win against an amazing player (no one would call Polt a top terran) due to all races being unable to scout.
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On June 04 2011 06:02 Cthun wrote:
As for all of those worrying about my MC note, I simply forgot about him getting beat by Alicia. As you can see a few posts after I described how Alicia outmicro'ed him to pieces.Clearly I've seen the match (:
Lol he didn't outmicro MC. He had complete build order wins, rewatch the videos. First game had nothign to do with micro, it was a build order loss and MC made a really bad decision to send his zealots way ahead of his stalkers. Second game he did an earlier gate/core than MC on his four gate so his warp ins were at least 10 seconds ahead, that's impossible to come back from.
Stop listening to casters who scream 'OH MY GOD HE BLOCKED A ZEALOT THAT WAS ALMOST DEAD WITH A PROBE BEFORE IT DID NOTHING, WHAT AMAZING MICRO THIS IS THE BEST THING I'VE EVER SEEN".
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On June 04 2011 06:00 hitman123 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 03:46 Reborn8u wrote:
I can't believe some of the stuff I'm reading in this thread, some the comments would only make sense 6 months ago. With the buffs to zerg and nerfs to toss along with lingering undressed issues, protoss is not what it once was. I personally think that the nerfs designed to "fix" pvp, put protoss over the tipping point and have hurt toss greatly in every matchup. A 4 gate rush in pvp is still hard to stop if you don't have 4 gates, but in the other matchups I don't think it's that people can't win by 4 gating but that the threat isn't there. I loved 4 gating zergs, but it was razor thin whether or not it held and game deciding. With that threat being 20 seconds later, it is 2x easier for zerg to hold. Also, that 20 seconds also means that when a protoss 3gate expands against zerg they only have 3 or 4 units and warp isn't done when they want to put down the nexus. Just setting back every potential warp in 20 seconds has opened the door for zergs to deny the natural. Meanwhile zerg can expand at 15 food and toss can't do anything but try to force a few units early instead of drones.
Another issue for protoss in every matchup is that protoss is very reliant on FF's and Colossus. When zergs deal with FF's by doing bane drops or roach burrow, it looks like most protoss's (at least that I've seen) don't have any answer. Terrans are getting emp earlier and 1 good emp is GG, people say "spread out your units" but there are situations where you can't do that, like when defending a ramp or pretty much anytime you engage a bio ball early to mid game, if your army spreads out, it will get stim-a moved and evaporate. Colossus are getting hard countered by vikings, corruptors, and neural parasite. When a zerg fungals the death ball, there is nothing protoss can do but watch, it stops your air, your blink, pulling your colossus back.
Also, the cost to get blink and charge are absurd if you compare them to any other upgrades for zerg or terrans early units. For example the cost to get twilight and charge is the same as a terran getting a tech lab + stim + combat shield + concussive. The stalker is a huge issue too, toss has to use them, but their long cooldown combined with only getting +1 per upgrade means that the more upgrades terran or zerg gets the worse stalkers scale against them. When you realize that 1 stalker has a slightly lower dps than a single UNstimmed marine, and that they can afford almost 4 marines for the cost of 1 stalker, or that roaches can me made almost 2 to 1 for cost and scale better with upgrades it makes it clear that stalkers are terrible for their cost. Colossus have become a liability for protoss in many ways as well because of the continuing trend towards macro heavy play and macro maps. Colossus slow down the protoss army, and they must be protected, and for you opponent they are always expected. It gets very difficult to defend your bases after the 3rd because protoss can't just throw units away and it's very hard to split your army and deal with threats at multiple locations cost effectively.
Then there are issues with unit counters, hydras are excellent against zealots and stalkers, but they also rape immortals and voids. MM does great against zealots and stalkers, but marines also rape voids and immortals. But toss needs obs so the only safe and logical option is colossus.
As it is, protoss has to back its self into a corner or choke and use FF and Colossus so the range of its units can make its dps higher than the front line their opponents, but it has slowly been figured out how to deal with FF's and Colossus. The protoss army gets crushed $ for $ to almost anything without FF, and colossus.
I have little hope that any of this will be corrected until HOTS. I think there are core design issues with protoss that require the addition of units and abilities, or the removal of some from other races for the issue to be worked out.
FF are absolutely at the base of all the problems, they are too strong in some situations. But once the opponent has a tech to make them ineffective toss is really handicapped. I think the same is true for colossus.
BTW this whole argument that all the toss players are just not as good as the other races players is complete bullshit. It's just like how Terran has had better tourney results than toss and zerg combined and had 40-50% of the top 200 throughout Sc2's history and people say "well that just means that better players choose terran" If you honestly believe it works like that, your logic is so flawed it makes 99% of what you say worth ignoring. perfect post. Also wanna add into it is Vikings and Corruptors own colossus, carriers and mothership so hard. That's why I don't want to use mothership and carriers at all. May be a buff for mothership's speed or carriers. Otherwise they're suck so bad, and everything have to come down to ground armies again.
Why thank you, if you liked that post you should check out this one http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=228320¤tpage=13#244
I basically explain to blizzard how to make this game into awesomecraft when hots comes out. (Some of it is repetitive between the two posts, I use many of the same examples and analogies.)
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I think one important factor was that Blizzard nerfed protoss too quickly and too frequently. Most other strategies were nerfed to oblivion so that no we must rely on ff and colossus, and gimmicks here and there. Straight templar tech is weaker without the KA, stargate was a somewhat viable opening with void speed, but then that went out the window. Warpgate timing pushes to punish greedy openings, pushed back 20 seconds. In all honesty i feel like alot of there preemptive nerfs will lead to some serious consequences as Protoss keeps on running into brick walls when they try other strategies.
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Yeah, there are almost no good protosses in Korea. It really points towards an imbalance to be honest.
Think zerg is the strongest race atm, and terran and toss being equal.
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Lol, I had to check the date of the first post to see if it was from 2010...
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Well once the other races started to figure out how to counter their a-moving, the protoss players couldn't do anything else.
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Dominican Republic913 Posts
This are the real problems:
Protoss :
GAMEPLAY
No Harrassment early-mid game (Dts vs Zerg and Terran are a joke)
No Pressure on a terran player once they have medivac.
Very Fragile vs Cheese play, Terran all ins are way way stronger that protoss all ins and Zerg all ins are worst imo.
Coming back in a game This doesnt exits being protoss player, u can come back in again when u are behind, mean while Zerg have injects and Zerglings, and Terran Mules + free Bunkers to defend cost effective while they macro up again.
ADAPTING
Timmings u have to be good at MICRO, MACRO, TIMMING, SCOUTING, REACTING, , if u fail in one of those u lose.
but in the other hand, Terran can fight with just MMM and Zerg with Pure Roaches or Zerglings + infestors
UNIT AND UPGRADES COST EFECTIVENESS
Units U cant fight a Terran or Zerg without Collosus or Sentries at Mid-LateGame.
Zealot speed Cost to much and Take for ever to be made.
BUILDS
Openings Most of the protoss opening are way way figure out by this time
3Gate expo dies to Banshee or expo behind wall.
1Gate FE is very fragile to 2rax + 5scv.
20nexus (aka huk build) Same as 1Gate Fe but worst because if terran expo behind this pressure u way behind.
What i think can help protoss players?
For Protoss:
Incresing the upgrade for the Stalkers +2 like Roaches,
incresing the heath of the warp prism. +20shield
For Terran
Make Medivacs heal or transport an ungrade
Make marines like BW 4rage, a upgrade for 5rage
Make marauders cost a little more like Stalkers
Terran have to many ways to detect Cloak units, EMP should not be allow to see DT, Banshees or burroed units
For Zerg
Infestor are so OP
Larva from inject take 5sec longer.
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On June 04 2011 05:56 Jtom wrote:
Protoss is neither underpowered nor overpowered and even if they are it's impossible to show 100% that they are.
If they aren't you can't prove it 100% either, nice argument fool
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On June 04 2011 06:30 2GRe-Play- wrote:
UNIT AND UPGRADES COST EFECTIVENESS
Units U cant fight a Terran or Zerg without Collosus or Sentries at Mid-LateGame.
Zealot speed Cost to much and Take for ever to be made.
You can't fight protoss with mech. You have to go MMM + V + G or you die. Protoss players just seem to forget that... Do we terrans claim a sollution? No. Is it hard to win with MMM + V + G against a protoss deathball? Hell yes, even with mass emp's.
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I can't believe some of the stuff I'm reading in this thread, some the comments would only make sense 6 months ago. With the buffs to zerg and nerfs to toss along with lingering undressed issues, protoss is not what it once was. I personally think that the nerfs designed to "fix" pvp, put protoss over the tipping point and have hurt toss greatly in every matchup. A 4 gate rush in pvp is still hard to stop if you don't have 4 gates, but in the other matchups I don't think it's that people can't win by 4 gating but that the threat isn't there. I loved 4 gating zergs, but it was razor thin whether or not it held and game deciding. With that threat being 20 seconds later, it is 2x easier for zerg to hold. Also, that 20 seconds also means that when a protoss 3gate expands against zerg they only have 3 or 4 units and warp isn't done when they want to put down the nexus. Just setting back every potential warp in 20 seconds has opened the door for zergs to deny the natural. Meanwhile zerg can expand at 15 food and toss can't do anything but try to force a few units early instead of drones.
Another issue for protoss in every matchup is that protoss is very reliant on FF's and Colossus. When zergs deal with FF's by doing bane drops or roach burrow, it looks like most protoss's (at least that I've seen) don't have any answer. Terrans are getting emp earlier and 1 good emp is GG, people say "spread out your units" but there are situations where you can't do that, like when defending a ramp or pretty much anytime you engage a bio ball early to mid game, if your army spreads out, it will get stim-a moved and evaporate. Colossus are getting hard countered by vikings, corruptors, and neural parasite. When a zerg fungals the death ball, there is nothing protoss can do but watch, it stops your air, your blink, pulling your colossus back.
Also, the cost to get blink and charge are absurd if you compare them to any other upgrades for zerg or terrans early units. For example the cost to get twilight and charge is the same as a terran getting a tech lab + stim + combat shield + concussive. The stalker is a huge issue too, toss has to use them, but their long cooldown combined with only getting +1 per upgrade means that the more upgrades terran or zerg gets the worse stalkers scale against them. When you realize that 1 stalker has a slightly lower dps than a single UNstimmed marine, and that they can afford almost 4 marines for the cost of 1 stalker, or that roaches can me made almost 2 to 1 for cost and scale better with upgrades it makes it clear that stalkers are terrible for their cost. Colossus have become a liability for protoss in many ways as well because of the continuing trend towards macro heavy play and macro maps. Colossus slow down the protoss army, and they must be protected, and for you opponent they are always expected. It gets very difficult to defend your bases after the 3rd because protoss can't just throw units away and it's very hard to split your army and deal with threats at multiple locations cost effectively.
Then there are issues with unit counters, hydras are excellent against zealots and stalkers, but they also rape immortals and voids. MM does great against zealots and stalkers, but marines also rape voids and immortals. But toss needs obs so the only safe and logical option is colossus.
As it is, protoss has to back its self into a corner or choke and use FF and Colossus so the range of its units can make its dps higher than the front line their opponents, but it has slowly been figured out how to deal with FF's and Colossus. The protoss army gets crushed $ for $ to almost anything without FF, and colossus.
I have little hope that any of this will be corrected until HOTS. I think there are core design issues with protoss that require the addition of units and abilities, or the removal of some from other races for the issue to be worked out.
FF are absolutely at the base of all the problems, they are too strong in some situations. But once the opponent has a tech to make them ineffective toss is really handicapped. I think the same is true for colossus.
BTW this whole argument that all the toss players are just not as good as the other races players is complete bullshit. It's just like how Terran has had better tourney results than toss and zerg combined and had 40-50% of the top 200 throughout Sc2's history and people say "well that just means that better players choose terran" If you honestly believe it works like that, your logic is so flawed it makes 99% of what you say worth ignoring.
Amazingly put. Thank you sir.
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On June 04 2011 06:27 thegamer wrote:
Well once the other races started to figure out how to counter their a-moving, the protoss players couldn't do anything else.
For all the dirtbags in this thread saying protoss players blah blah a move, let me point some things out in the hope it will serve as the lube to pull your head out of your ass. Protoss is the only race that has to rely on casters ALL game, this takes good control. A single late or misplaced FF can cost you the game. The spells protoss all have to rely on all require placement, like FF , storm, feedback, blink. Protoss is the only race that has to move its screen location to macro units AND place every unit, on top of which we have the crono mechanic which must be utilized to keep up and is unforgiving, I can't double crono 1 thing to catch it up.
The warp in controls have been glitchy since beta, (this is not just in personal experience, every time I watch pro's play I see this) When you warp in (especially when your warp gate count get high) your gateways constantly get unselected in the middle of the process (this happens over and over in every game! You have your gates selected your holding S and clicking and all of the sudden after your first 4 stalkers you suddenly just have a pointer and you're like wtf I need to be managing my army not fighting the controls to macro) Also, the warp in size of the units is all screwed up, there are so many places you can't warp in that you should be able to. It is almost impossible to warp a stalker in on a ramp for example. With the pylon radius shrunk, it's even worse now. Zerg and Terran can just press 5 and hold a or r and be on full production.
When you combine all these factors (rely on spell casters all game, can't watch battle and micro while you macro, the need to crono and how most of the upgrades and spells for toss have to be contolled (we don't just have speed upgrades for every unit or fast units! We can't just press 1t and have our armies effectiveness doubled) To use protoss at very high levels takes serious multitasking, especially with the booming trend of both terrans and zergs attacking on multiple fronts.
Hopefully this has enlightened you. The whole "herp derp a move protoss" is a myth, an excuse, and flat out garbage.
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EPT
