EPT.. apparently now if Protoss isn't winning absolutely everything they're UP
Protoss at the GSL - Page 10
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fraktoasters
United States617 Posts
.. apparently now if Protoss isn't winning absolutely everything they're UP | ||
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G.K.
United States105 Posts
 Being the only protoss player on Ro8 and winning the tournament! | ||
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elitesniper420
Canada135 Posts
On June 04 2011 04:54 ScythedBlade wrote: Wrong statement. Protoss requires the most micro to be on par with equal cost army for early game and mid game. Proven. You can't be this delusional. Tell me: what units do you rely on the most? Colossus and Sentries. One unit is a-click and the other is F spam. Yes, Sentries actually do take some skill to use, but that is really the only thing you can improve upon as you get better and even then it's incredibly simplistic. The entire deathball mechanic also pretty much gets rid of any use for positioning apart from zealots at front at your one big control group. On June 04 2011 04:47 Severian wrote: I only brought it up to demonstrate how stupid it was of you to bring the Ro64 alone up. You can't use one round of one tournament as your sole data for the PvZ winrate in Korea, especially when a later round of that same tournament has been played that reduces that winrate to 50%! Seriously, think about it for a minute. I don't want to say this but it feels like you have some kind of mental problem when you find it amazing the winrate is decreased by 50% when you compare an entire round (and the biggest one at that), to two sets played in one day. | ||
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beat farm
United States478 Posts
On June 04 2011 04:21 Cuiu wrote: Ro64 16 P Ro32 7 around 55%?are out R64 29 T R32 17 P around 42%?are out R 19 Z R 8 Z around 60%?are out yeah protoss is soo bad in this tournament i think blizz ruined the game for toss player you should switch the game not the race... look at the Ro16 z has 4 people already make it and there is a ZvZ that still needs to be played so thats minimum of 5/8 zergs making it. i doubt leenock will beat clide, so it will probably stay at 5/8, keep in mind the ZvZ means 1 Z has to lose so 7 is the maximum number of zergs that could advance. P has 0 people to make it so far and there is no PvP. 3/7 protoss have already lost and the 4 remaining are ace, alicia huk and choya. ace plays MKP so his chances of winning are bleak. Huk plays polt who is solid against P, and huk has not done well in korea yet. choya plays top who is very solid and choya has not been doing well recently. Alicia is the only protoss hope. he plays byun and he should win that but i wouldnt be that surprised if byun won. so on a good day 2 protoss advance and on a bad day all of them are out by the Ro16 although im not going to say protoss is up. like others have said warp gate nerf screws with protoss's timings and they have to relearn all there timings. so with time P will start winning again and then it can be accessed if they are UP or not. also if the best 2 P did not play each other P would be sitting in a better position. | ||
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Reborn8u
United States1761 Posts
Or pretend you're zerg and go 15 nexus all day on ladder in every matchup, whine that is unfair that you can't be ahead all game long and when the statistics plummet for protoss even after buffs well just keep pluggin along with our 15 nexus until we get base units that aren't 2x the cost for less dmg. | ||
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Olinim
4044 Posts
On June 04 2011 04:54 Dente wrote: Amazing how people think that PvT favours terran :o... You need to drop like a mad dogg and do a HUGE amount of damage before you can actually battle the protoss army. Collossus + HT is almost unbeatable and mech is still not possible. Voidray allins are VERY hard to hold and 6gate is ridicilous without 4+ bunkers. You need to put a turret early game or you die to DT players (I'm talking about FE tosses that go DT's around 9:00). EMP is strong, I agree, but I really saw 200/200 vs 200/200 fights where both players had 3-3 and where the terran emped every single protoss unit. Result: terran loses the battle, protoss warps in a new round and GG. Am I the only one seeing TvP as balanced in EU and NA? It's different in Korea, I agree, but I feel like Europe and Korea have the same skill level. Maybe for the most part but n maps like Tal'darim altar terran have an unbelievable advantage in the late game, storms and forcefields and even colossi are much less effective because there's so much room, and drops and nukes are incredibly good also. | ||
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shire
United States405 Posts
ex. for several month protoss would have some where around 70~80% win rate against zerg and when zerg comes out with new strat (2 hatch build) then protoss win rate goes down to 20~30%. but i highly doubt though. seem like this is an age of first bonjwa, Nestea. as long as Nestea is around, might be a while for protoss. | ||
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Bkennedy
United States266 Posts
Squirtle and Ace are not impressive haha. I fail to see how people can say things like this seriously. Squirtle and Ace are hands down leagues above you most likely, how can they be "not impressive"? On topic. I agree with the majority of people in the thread, the results from one tournament aren't enough to jump to any major balance conclusions. Protoss seem to be doing drastically better in the foreign scene, maybe we should find out what's different? | ||
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sickoota
Canada918 Posts
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Snowbear
Korea (South)1925 Posts
On June 04 2011 04:29 darmousseh wrote: 3. High dependance on spell casters and high dps units Terran can win games with marines and marauders only. This is so completely wrong and a total myth. Terran can't win with marines and marauders only. Terran needs to add: - vikings - ghosts - medivacs to stand a CHANCE. That's not just marine marauder... | ||
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freetgy
1720 Posts
there are 2 things that made Protoss win and seem Overpowered. a) Incontrol Sentry Style (helped PvZ tremendously) b) MC all-in timings both have been figured out, which leaves Protoss with nothing else, to rely on. There are no safe builds in PvZ anymore, thanks to scouting issues. Protoss units are the least costeffectiv, and no Z is not least cost effectiv. You have got Roaches one of the most cost effective unit in the Game early and midgame. Zerg can now deny the economic gain of Protoss first expansion, which already seals the deal most of the time. now T/Z evolved alittle (aka they stopped playing like retards) but P also got nerfed like alot. Now P has to find some other gimmicky strategys that are not solid to win some games. It is the same as LiquidTyler said when those Gimmicky Styles get figured out everything be fixed, but of course the whole QQ fest the last 2-3 Months, resulted unneccessary huge P Nerfs and Zerg Buffs. | ||
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beat farm
United States478 Posts
On June 04 2011 05:02 shire wrote: this kind of things happened alot in sc:bw, people find out new strategy and then metagame shifts dramatically. zerg find out the strategy, now it is protoss' turn to come out with new strat that can counter what zergs are doing. ex. for several month protoss would have some where around 70~80% win rate against zerg and when zerg comes out with new strat (2 hatch build) then protoss win rate goes down to 20~30%. but i highly doubt though. seem like this is an age of first bonjwa, Nestea. as long as Nestea is around, might be a while for protoss. i don't understand all the nestea hype. he is not sweeping every one, cezanne had a chance to knock him out. the only thing different is he is the first person to win a gsl and then not suck the next one. i don't think he will win the super tourny. | ||
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Elefanto
Switzerland3584 Posts
On June 04 2011 05:04 Dente wrote: This is so completely wrong and a total myth. Terran can't win with marines and marauders only. Terran needs to add: - vikings - ghosts - medivacs to stand a CHANCE. That's not just marine marauder... He means in terms of damage output from his units. Protoss is never going to win a TvP with zealot / stalker / sentry, because their damage output sucks. (of course if he has 2-2 and terran 0-0 that's another matter, but then the terran failed) While you can win your games as terrans with only Marine / Marauder as damage dealers, without the need for aoe. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On June 04 2011 05:03 XenocideFTW wrote: I fail to see how people can say things like this seriously. Squirtle and Ace are hands down leagues above you most likely, how can they be "not impressive"? On topic. I agree with the majority of people in the thread, the results from one tournament aren't enough to jump to any major balance conclusions. Protoss seem to be doing drastically better in the foreign scene, maybe we should find out what's different? foreign scene doesn't have nestea, lol no but in all seriousness, there are some pretty good foreign protoss. they actually seem to often demonstrate more solid play than their korean counterparts. | ||
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zev318
Canada4306 Posts
On June 04 2011 05:03 XenocideFTW wrote: I fail to see how people can say things like this seriously. Squirtle and Ace are hands down leagues above you most likely, how can they be "not impressive"? shawn bradley probably is a lot better than me in basketball but he's still not impressive compared to his peers, i believe that is the point xenocide was trying to make. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On June 04 2011 05:06 beat farm wrote: i don't understand all the nestea hype. he is not sweeping every one, cezanne had a chance to knock him out. the only thing different is he is the first person to win a gsl and then not suck the next one. i don't think he will win the super tourny. dude have you watched nestea? he is freaking amazing! | ||
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Severian
Australia2052 Posts
On June 04 2011 05:00 elitesniper420 wrote: I don't want to say this but it feels like you have some kind of mental problem when you find it amazing the winrate is decreased by 50% when you compare an entire round (and the biggest one at that), to two sets played in one day. I'm not sure if you're trolling here. You've managed to mischaracterize what I said, misstate a fact, state something that doesn't make sense mathematically and call me mentally ill, all in the one sentence. The winrate wasn't reduced by 50%. It was reduced to 50%. I don't find that amazing. I find it pretty expected given that your statement that Protosses win 66% of PvZs is obviously a load of crap. Logically, the winrate should drop by a relatively small amount in the second round as there are fewer games to influence the number (unless there were, due to luck of the draw, an abnormally small number of PvZs in the first round). 66%->50% isn't a large drop (even though Protosses didn't win any PvZs!), but it is a drop and it makes your number false. Accept that. On June 04 2011 04:55 elitesniper420 wrote: 2) Banelings, which in terms of supply are more expensive than Ultralisks Expand on this, please. Ultralisks cost 6 Banelings' worth of minerals, 8 Banelings' worth of gas, and 12 Banelings' worth of supply. | ||
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Bkennedy
United States266 Posts
On June 04 2011 05:07 zev318 wrote: shawn bradley probably is a lot better than me in basketball but he's still not impressive compared to his peers, i believe that is the point xenocide was trying to make. I'm Xenocide xD. Just messed up the quote. | ||
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Snowbear
Korea (South)1925 Posts
On June 04 2011 05:06 Elefanto wrote: He means in terms of damage output from his units. Protoss is never going to win a TvP with zealot / stalker / sentry, because their damage output sucks. (of course if he has 2-2 and terran 0-0 that's another matter, but then the terran failed) While you can win your games as terrans with only Marine / Marauder as damage dealers, without the need for aoe. You can't just compare those things. As a terran MMM + V + G is the only thing that works. Mech is a complete joke against protoss. I know that some other styles had some success in the past, but that doesn't make those styles viable. Even when you EMP the whole protoss army, then it is still hard to win the battle. We have 2 damagedealers, but those are not always enough. | ||
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Steel
Japan2283 Posts
I think it's kind of silly too look at the GSL since most Protoss players all-ined. Macro protosses are rare and those who exist have been doing quite well. | ||
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