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On May 25 2011 22:34 ComaDose wrote: Korea is doing a great job at trying to attract foreigners. I'm actually curious to know where the Koreans would stay for example at the NASL, TSL finals. Do we offer them a team house? Yeah I don't really know what to say, the Koreans train harder and perform better and still hand out prizes that are racist against their own country to try and get foreign people involved. I think that we need to rise to the level that Korea is at in order to mingle with them better. I also believe we are on our way, but that far fewer people are dedicating their lives to playing outside Korea.
THIS. if a foreigner is as dedicated as the koreans are. then i believe that the foreigners can perform alot better than they are right now. However, most foreigners are afraid to go to korea to commit the time and effort to practice and eventually get into GSL. As of right now, the foreign scene may seem close to the koreans in terms of skill, but soon enough the practice time that the koreans put into it will overcome this small gap.
few more things. we complain about how there are only a few foreigners in the GSL.. well think of it this way: 1. there are only a few foreigners because those are the only foreigners in korea in the first place. 2. in competitions like MLG, NASL, TSL,etc there are only a handful of Koreans. Do they complain that there are only a few koreans in our tourneys? No. Then why should we be complaining about the GSL?
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I don't know why you guys are speculating. The teams and players know why they aren't and the excuses vary and are valid.
This has been brought up on more than one occasion and Gretech is still processing what else needs to be done.
I don't see why this conversation should continue. The teams will be contact with Gretech with regards to the next step.
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On May 26 2011 00:13 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 00:07 5ukkub wrote:On May 25 2011 23:52 HolyArrow wrote:+ Show Spoiler +This article actually kind of pisses me off. I'll explain why by going through it piece by piece, italicizing every part and responding underneath the italics individually. Allow me to preface this with my annoyance at the chosen titles of these articles. A while ago, we had an article called "The Korean Problem", and, now, here's one called, "It is time for Korea to start paying attention to the West." ...What? Why do all these titles imply the issues with the Korean and foreigner scenes are all Korea's fault? They're misleading at best, and bring the articles to a rather misleading start due to the fallacious implications of the titles. Introduction
For many years, the Western world has been following the Korean eSports scene intently, gathering information and keeping up to date with all of the various professional teams, tournaments and events. Now with the Western Starcraft 2 scene surpassing that of even Korea, it is time for the Korean eSports professionals to start taking notes.
Is the Western SC2 scene really surpassing Korea's? Can any tournament in the West pull off as many viewers as the GSL does? Sure, there are many more smaller tournaments in the West, but can you really just straight up say that the Western SC2 scene is surpassing Korea's (especially in light of Blizzard and Kespa reaching and agreement)? Bottom line: Citation friggin' needed. This has never been so apparent up until the past few weeks. With the GSL Super Tournament, and the news accompanying it indicating that only two foreigners – who happen to live in Korea – will be participating in the prestigious event. Recently, the FnaticMSI.Starcraft 2 manager wrote his personal thoughts on why he believed no one wished to take part in the GSL Super Tournament. It was then followed up by a response from the GomTV broadcasters.Gom's response definitely showed some overlooking of real issues regarding foreigner participation, so I agree that there are communication problems. However, I'm pretty sure that Xeris's article had some of its facts wrong, which many people pointed out later in the topic that it was posted in. Dunno if it was fixed yet, but when I was reading the topic yesterday, it doesn't seem like any of the misinformation was remedied (if it is, then cool.) Living conditions
One of the deterrents for players moving to Korea in order to participate in the GSL sanctioned events is the conditions. When a Westerner moves to Korea they leave behind more than an address, they leave behind friends and family – a home. They leave behind their support network, the people they count on and the people who count on them. It is no easy task to simply pick up and move to the other side of the world.Fair enough. Very valid point. No qualms with this. Then once you arrive in Korea, you are expected to live with a group of strangers – most of the time, sharing a room with them. Western cultures are far different from that of Asian cultures such as that in Korea. Moving from a nice familiar home where you would have your own room, privacy and the freedom to do as you please to a house where you share a room with multiple people you probably do not know personally and share everything can be quite difficult. It takes a lot of time and effort to make this new unfamiliar destination your home.
This is where things start getting kind of ridiculous in my opinion. First of all, it bothers me how the difference in living conditions is painted as a "cultural thing". Sure, you could call it that. But, what you could (and should, since it's closer to the truth) call it is simply a difference in willingness to accept a less comfortable standard of living. This paragraph seems to be saying, "Oh, it's so hard for Westerners to adapt to conditions in Korea because of such cultural differences in living!" Nah. More like, it's hard for Westerners to adapt to living conditions in Korea because they can't handle not having the aforementioned luxuries in the paragraph I quoted. You can call it cultural differences, you can call it being spoiled and/or inflexible. I personally don't see how culture has anything to do with it, and "cultural difference" is just a pretty phrase to mask the uncomfortable truth that, perhaps, Korean progamers are simply willing to sacrifice more for the sake of a really cost-efficient practice environment. Combine the tight living quarters with vastly different cultural norms, and you have a very stressful situation for anyone who has not taken precautions to prepare themselves. Even if you have taken precautions, it can be a daunting task. You are required to adapt to new foods, new customs, new ethics, and new rules – and you are expected to adapt quickly. On top of all of this is the language barrier. For years, there has been an incredibly large rift between Korean eSports and Western eSports solely because of the language barrier. It is very difficult to communicate even the most basic ideas with broken English or Korean, but to actually develop relationships and communicate regularly on a daily basis will surely cause complications time to time.The food is pretty good, and pretty damn Westerner-friendly in my opinion. I guess you could disagree with me on that, but then you'd be saying that you have trouble adapting to stuff like Korean BBQ, which is pretty hard to believe, to say the least. Adapting to new customs, ethics, etc. simply sounds like simple etiquette for visiting another country. As for language, yes, it's difficult to communicate in Korea when you don't speak the language of their country. So learn Korean. This article is called "It is time for Korea to start paying attention in the West", and a paragraph dedicated to talking about how cultural differences and a language barrier make it difficult for foreigners carries the ridiculous implication that the Korean scene is somehow obliged to accomodate Westerners in terms of culture and language. What, do you expect Koreans to learn English just to make a foreigner's transition into Korea an easier experience? You're going into THEIR country - learn their damn language or don't complain. Practice conditions
All of the above of course leads to the practice conditions. Westerners are unable to communicate with Korean teams effectively, if at all, this makes it highly unlikely that you will see too many foreigners in a pro-gaming house in Korea.
This leaves players with the option of going to the GSL foreigner house. The GSL foreigner house – open to any gamers wishing to try their hand at entering the GSL is a wonderful idea. The house has all of your basic needs, a place to sleep, a bathroom and shower, and a room for you to set up practice Starcraft 2. However, it does not come equipped with professional gamers or any additional means of getting good practice. Players are left to their own devices, which usually ends up with them laddering on the Korean ladder.Like I said, learning Korean when you go to, you know, Korea, would help communication a lot. Sure, it's a pretty difficult task, but if you're truly dedicated to being a progamer and you want to practice with the best, you adapt so you can communicate with the best - not the other way around. Koreans have shown to be very willing to make friends with foreigners - Look at Liquid and oGs, for example. The only issue is communication, and, frankly, you just need to learn Korean at that point. If Koreans were coming to the U.S and started complaining about language barriers, then I'd tell them the same thing - they need to learn the language of the country they're going to. If you are able to speak Korean and the cultural conditions do not put you off, you can always try contacting a professional Korean team to live with and practice. However, finding a team willing or able to take in a foreign player is highly unlikely. The professional teams in Korea do not necessarily know the players wanting to live in their house personally, or even have room in their house for more players – of another team – to come and stay.A true point. This is where foreign players really need to just be proactive in making friends (which first starts with learning Korean, again - communication is so important). While it's unfortunate that Korean team houses are full and are unable to fit foreigners, I highly doubt that Korean players wouldn't be open to the idea of practicing with foreigner friends over B-net. I think you just have to really be polite and approach people on B-net, perhaps having team managers talk things over to arrange for practice partners on both ends. You don't need to be in the same house to practice together (and players definitely practice with players from different teams - this is apparent from almost any interview following a match win - the player thanks various practice partners, some of whom are obviously not on the same team). Costs of moving to Korea
Getting to Korea and being able to afford living there for the allotted time is another huge concern for any professional gamer or team looking to venture into Korea. With the average cost of a flight to Korea being $1,500 USD, and the additional living expenses such as food, phone, miscellaneous travel, etc, and you are looking at an extremely large bill for sending just one player to Korea for a month to compete in a regular season of the GSL.
Now let us say that you are doing well in Korea, and you are progressing through the various rounds in Code A or S. Now the ESL and MLG event organizers are hosting tournaments this month that you are expected to attend. Add another $1,500 flight for each of those events, the additional $300 for each events hotel rooms, as well as miscellaneous travel costs while at the venue, and your costs for that month are now three or four times as high as they would be if you were still living in your home country in Europe or North America.
If you did not do well in Korea, and after one week, you are already out of the tournament, you now have three weeks left in Korea with no events there to take part in. Three weeks with zero local events and all of the same costs as if you were to do well in the GSL.
That is for one individual player. Imagine if you will, sending an entire team to compete in a regular season GSL event for one month. Suddenly you increased your costs by five times as much. Not only that, but you are looking at an increasingly difficult time in finding them a place where they can all stay together as a team.
It's true that the cost of living in Korea is quite expensive. However, I don't really see what Korea can do about that. The cost of living in a country isn't really something that people can consciously control as far as I know. There's really nothing that can be done about it. Which makes me wonder why it's even in an article called "It's time for Korea to start to pay attention to the West". Opportunity Cost
While you are in Korea for one month, you are missing countless online and LAN tournaments alike. If you move to Korea for one month to focus solely on the GSL, you are forgoing an average of $19,000 USD in potential earnings every 15 days¹.
With major LAN tournaments outside of Korea such as the MLG, conflicting dates become a huge issue. For instance, the GSL World Championships were held right through MLG Dallas. This left FnaticMSI players TT1 and SEn unable to compete in MLG due to being in Korea.
This situation is happening again with MLG Columbus and the GSL’s Super Tournament. The Super Tournament, a one-month long affair, caused yet another choice to be made for players – go to Korea, or Columbus, Ohio. The choice in this case is obvious – Columbus, it is more important.
The GSL tried to remedy this situation by allowing foreigners the option of playing their matches around the dates for MLG Columbus. However, the solution provided by the GSL was feeble at best. You cannot realistically expect any team in eSports in its current form to spend $1,500+ to send a player to Korea for a few matches, then hotel fees and miscellaneous expenses for MLG Columbus, and then another $1,500+ trip to Korea. Again, this is simply for one person – let alone an entire team of players.Sure, there are scheduling conflicts. Again, this is an issue that both sides need to work to resolve. The GSL is an ongoing thing - there's barely any room between one tournament and another. But this is a known thing - the GSL is a huge tournament, and every season lasts for around a month, so I don't really see much room for rescheduling on Korea's end. In contrast, many Western tournaments are typically much smaller and shorter than the GSL, so it seems like just by the nature of the large GSL compared to the smaller Western tournaments, the smaller Western tournaments (which are more flexible by nature) are the ones that need to schedule themselves around the GSL. Obligations
Now, why was it an ‘obvious choice’ that MLG Columbus is more important than the GSL’s Super Tournament? Sponsorship obligations. It is more beneficial for a team whose sponsors are regional to attend events in that specific region. The majority of Western team’s sponsors are either region based in Europe or North America, or that is where the majority of the team’s fans are located. It is where they have a presence.
http://fnatic.com/filestorage/imagedb/full/7697.jpgTake FnaticMSI for example. FnaticMSI has global and regional sponsors, giving FnaticMSI a little leeway in where they send players for events. That said, FnaticMSI’s focus remains on Europe. Europe is where FnaticMSI’s fans are, and where the regional sponsors are focused, giving a larger incentive to focus efforts on the European scene. Europe is more important to FnatcMSI sponsors than Korea is, as that is where they wish to grow and that is where they are based, it only makes sense.
It would not make sense to send your players to areas where you have no presence. If you do not have any global sponsors, or sponsors in Korea, why would spend time and money on that area? It is true that professional teams and players still send players to events outside of their home regions when possible. This is because eSports is based on the internet, and our players are still able to influence and affect fans in Europe, when competing in Korea. However, with that being said, when a situation comes along where two major events, one in a team’s home region, and the other in Korea pop up at the same time, the choice should be obvious where the team will send its players. They will send their players to their local regions major event. This way they are able to interact and connect with fans much better than if they were to go to Korea and force those same fans to follow online instead of in person.Sure, you have more sponsors where you're from. That's pretty obvious. But what do you want Korean to do about the problem? Have Korean companies sponsor you as well? Seems like the onus falls upon the Western teams to make those sponsorships happen - not the other way around. It feels like this article is just complaining about all the issues with sending foreign players to Korea, all under the implication that Korea needs to do something about it (thanks to the title, again. Perhaps I'm dwelling too much on the title, but hey, a title sets the tone for the rest of the article). The article just feels like it's stating tons of problems and giving meager/no solutions, all under the implication that Korea needs to try harder to accomodate foreigners (even though many of the problems aren't even Korea's obligation to solve, such as the cultural and sponsorship issues). It's just... kind of annoying. /end rant Prompts for alot of job you put into it, but you missed the whole point of the article. As i mentioned few posts earlier, this article is basically saying that until GSL won't change drastically, no foreigners for you Korea. Look at Koreans competing in Dreamhack/MLG. They don't have to stay in US/EU for a month... they won't miss their GSL matches... Why is it so? Because MLG and Dreamhack don't last a month and Koreans can just fly over, grab some cash and come back to THEIR HOME. If GSL wants some foreigners, they should have some 1 week tournaments too. Did I really miss the main point of the article? Maybe I really just fail at reading comprehension, but I see nowhere in the article that it makes its main point the one that you described. It sounds like you didn't read the article carefully at all if you think its main point is that Korea needs smaller tournaments. The article talks about cultural, communication, scheduling, cost, and sponsorship issues. It dedicates a single small paragraph to what you claim is the article's main point: If you did not do well in Korea, and after one week, you are already out of the tournament, you now have three weeks left in Korea with no events there to take part in. Three weeks with zero local events and all of the same costs as if you were to do well in the GSL.I don't think you're right about the article's main point at all. EDIT: I kind of misread your post because your sentence about what the article was saying was worded kind of oddly. Either way, a majority of my reply to you still stands. The article complains about things far beyond the scope of the GSL, so I don't see how its main point is about how the GSL needs to change or Korea won't get foreigners.
Well... i won't argue with you who has better comprehention since i'm polish so it gives me an instant handicap with foreign languages which english is actually for me. How i understood the point of the article is that in order to attract more foreigners to Korea, GSL must change. Iit's too much of a cost for us to compete there. They have the luxury of home, their culture etc. Koreans have a good shot at winning foreign lans so it's not big of a deal to fly to Europe or America and take a few days from their calendar. Basically GSL wants more foreigners and it's good, but their doing it wrong now. That's how i see it and seems that's how the author sees it too.
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On May 25 2011 23:49 Wolf wrote: Obviously it's going to be a huge investment to send someone to Korea. I don't understand the point of this article other than to say that it's hard to send players to Korea...
"Korea needs to pay attention to the West" ? You didn't say why.
Pretty much...
You've highlighted why it's hard to go to Korea but you didn't say why they should pay more attention?
They've already taken steps to allow players to compete with the Exchange Program, but the issue is it's an ongoing tournament. They already have events out of the year where they invite foreign players to compete.
The thing is, at the end of the day, it's just hard to compete with Korean players right now. If you're in Code S, every series you win gives you enough bonus to your individual pay-out to where you would be able to sort of make it in Korea if you have additional team support. The issue most people bring up is Code A...
Well people declined the invitation to the Super Tournament, that was a straight shot... It's not just all the shit stated in the article, at the end of the day... It's hard. Koreans are good.
GOM can bend over backwards but the competition abroad will still be easier, there will still be a shit ton of money abroad, the ability to live at home will almost always be more convenient etc...
There is literally nothing more GOM can do, sure they could make the GSL a 2 times a year, 3 day event, but what the fuck? They already have events for foreigners to come compete in... They already have those events in addition to the regular seasonal GSL tournament... You can go to those if you don't want to make a huge commitment. You will not win the GSL by going over for a month anyways... I don't see it happening.
The regular tournament is made for people who are serious about competing in Korea, and steps have been taken to accommodate them. There are still special events for people who want to go over for shorter periods of time.
What is the problem?
It's hard to go to uproot your life and move to a foreign country where you don't know the language and competition is fierce? Well, no shit...
GOM has already made an effort to accommodate foreigners, they hold special events specifically for this purpose, most people just can't see the reward in going because it will still be easier to win money outside of Korea. GOM can't change that and they shouldn't change that.
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On May 26 2011 00:33 5ukkub wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 00:13 HolyArrow wrote:On May 26 2011 00:07 5ukkub wrote:On May 25 2011 23:52 HolyArrow wrote:+ Show Spoiler +This article actually kind of pisses me off. I'll explain why by going through it piece by piece, italicizing every part and responding underneath the italics individually. Allow me to preface this with my annoyance at the chosen titles of these articles. A while ago, we had an article called "The Korean Problem", and, now, here's one called, "It is time for Korea to start paying attention to the West." ...What? Why do all these titles imply the issues with the Korean and foreigner scenes are all Korea's fault? They're misleading at best, and bring the articles to a rather misleading start due to the fallacious implications of the titles. Introduction
For many years, the Western world has been following the Korean eSports scene intently, gathering information and keeping up to date with all of the various professional teams, tournaments and events. Now with the Western Starcraft 2 scene surpassing that of even Korea, it is time for the Korean eSports professionals to start taking notes.
Is the Western SC2 scene really surpassing Korea's? Can any tournament in the West pull off as many viewers as the GSL does? Sure, there are many more smaller tournaments in the West, but can you really just straight up say that the Western SC2 scene is surpassing Korea's (especially in light of Blizzard and Kespa reaching and agreement)? Bottom line: Citation friggin' needed. This has never been so apparent up until the past few weeks. With the GSL Super Tournament, and the news accompanying it indicating that only two foreigners – who happen to live in Korea – will be participating in the prestigious event. Recently, the FnaticMSI.Starcraft 2 manager wrote his personal thoughts on why he believed no one wished to take part in the GSL Super Tournament. It was then followed up by a response from the GomTV broadcasters.Gom's response definitely showed some overlooking of real issues regarding foreigner participation, so I agree that there are communication problems. However, I'm pretty sure that Xeris's article had some of its facts wrong, which many people pointed out later in the topic that it was posted in. Dunno if it was fixed yet, but when I was reading the topic yesterday, it doesn't seem like any of the misinformation was remedied (if it is, then cool.) Living conditions
One of the deterrents for players moving to Korea in order to participate in the GSL sanctioned events is the conditions. When a Westerner moves to Korea they leave behind more than an address, they leave behind friends and family – a home. They leave behind their support network, the people they count on and the people who count on them. It is no easy task to simply pick up and move to the other side of the world.Fair enough. Very valid point. No qualms with this. Then once you arrive in Korea, you are expected to live with a group of strangers – most of the time, sharing a room with them. Western cultures are far different from that of Asian cultures such as that in Korea. Moving from a nice familiar home where you would have your own room, privacy and the freedom to do as you please to a house where you share a room with multiple people you probably do not know personally and share everything can be quite difficult. It takes a lot of time and effort to make this new unfamiliar destination your home.
This is where things start getting kind of ridiculous in my opinion. First of all, it bothers me how the difference in living conditions is painted as a "cultural thing". Sure, you could call it that. But, what you could (and should, since it's closer to the truth) call it is simply a difference in willingness to accept a less comfortable standard of living. This paragraph seems to be saying, "Oh, it's so hard for Westerners to adapt to conditions in Korea because of such cultural differences in living!" Nah. More like, it's hard for Westerners to adapt to living conditions in Korea because they can't handle not having the aforementioned luxuries in the paragraph I quoted. You can call it cultural differences, you can call it being spoiled and/or inflexible. I personally don't see how culture has anything to do with it, and "cultural difference" is just a pretty phrase to mask the uncomfortable truth that, perhaps, Korean progamers are simply willing to sacrifice more for the sake of a really cost-efficient practice environment. Combine the tight living quarters with vastly different cultural norms, and you have a very stressful situation for anyone who has not taken precautions to prepare themselves. Even if you have taken precautions, it can be a daunting task. You are required to adapt to new foods, new customs, new ethics, and new rules – and you are expected to adapt quickly. On top of all of this is the language barrier. For years, there has been an incredibly large rift between Korean eSports and Western eSports solely because of the language barrier. It is very difficult to communicate even the most basic ideas with broken English or Korean, but to actually develop relationships and communicate regularly on a daily basis will surely cause complications time to time.The food is pretty good, and pretty damn Westerner-friendly in my opinion. I guess you could disagree with me on that, but then you'd be saying that you have trouble adapting to stuff like Korean BBQ, which is pretty hard to believe, to say the least. Adapting to new customs, ethics, etc. simply sounds like simple etiquette for visiting another country. As for language, yes, it's difficult to communicate in Korea when you don't speak the language of their country. So learn Korean. This article is called "It is time for Korea to start paying attention in the West", and a paragraph dedicated to talking about how cultural differences and a language barrier make it difficult for foreigners carries the ridiculous implication that the Korean scene is somehow obliged to accomodate Westerners in terms of culture and language. What, do you expect Koreans to learn English just to make a foreigner's transition into Korea an easier experience? You're going into THEIR country - learn their damn language or don't complain. Practice conditions
All of the above of course leads to the practice conditions. Westerners are unable to communicate with Korean teams effectively, if at all, this makes it highly unlikely that you will see too many foreigners in a pro-gaming house in Korea.
This leaves players with the option of going to the GSL foreigner house. The GSL foreigner house – open to any gamers wishing to try their hand at entering the GSL is a wonderful idea. The house has all of your basic needs, a place to sleep, a bathroom and shower, and a room for you to set up practice Starcraft 2. However, it does not come equipped with professional gamers or any additional means of getting good practice. Players are left to their own devices, which usually ends up with them laddering on the Korean ladder.Like I said, learning Korean when you go to, you know, Korea, would help communication a lot. Sure, it's a pretty difficult task, but if you're truly dedicated to being a progamer and you want to practice with the best, you adapt so you can communicate with the best - not the other way around. Koreans have shown to be very willing to make friends with foreigners - Look at Liquid and oGs, for example. The only issue is communication, and, frankly, you just need to learn Korean at that point. If Koreans were coming to the U.S and started complaining about language barriers, then I'd tell them the same thing - they need to learn the language of the country they're going to. If you are able to speak Korean and the cultural conditions do not put you off, you can always try contacting a professional Korean team to live with and practice. However, finding a team willing or able to take in a foreign player is highly unlikely. The professional teams in Korea do not necessarily know the players wanting to live in their house personally, or even have room in their house for more players – of another team – to come and stay.A true point. This is where foreign players really need to just be proactive in making friends (which first starts with learning Korean, again - communication is so important). While it's unfortunate that Korean team houses are full and are unable to fit foreigners, I highly doubt that Korean players wouldn't be open to the idea of practicing with foreigner friends over B-net. I think you just have to really be polite and approach people on B-net, perhaps having team managers talk things over to arrange for practice partners on both ends. You don't need to be in the same house to practice together (and players definitely practice with players from different teams - this is apparent from almost any interview following a match win - the player thanks various practice partners, some of whom are obviously not on the same team). Costs of moving to Korea
Getting to Korea and being able to afford living there for the allotted time is another huge concern for any professional gamer or team looking to venture into Korea. With the average cost of a flight to Korea being $1,500 USD, and the additional living expenses such as food, phone, miscellaneous travel, etc, and you are looking at an extremely large bill for sending just one player to Korea for a month to compete in a regular season of the GSL.
Now let us say that you are doing well in Korea, and you are progressing through the various rounds in Code A or S. Now the ESL and MLG event organizers are hosting tournaments this month that you are expected to attend. Add another $1,500 flight for each of those events, the additional $300 for each events hotel rooms, as well as miscellaneous travel costs while at the venue, and your costs for that month are now three or four times as high as they would be if you were still living in your home country in Europe or North America.
If you did not do well in Korea, and after one week, you are already out of the tournament, you now have three weeks left in Korea with no events there to take part in. Three weeks with zero local events and all of the same costs as if you were to do well in the GSL.
That is for one individual player. Imagine if you will, sending an entire team to compete in a regular season GSL event for one month. Suddenly you increased your costs by five times as much. Not only that, but you are looking at an increasingly difficult time in finding them a place where they can all stay together as a team.
It's true that the cost of living in Korea is quite expensive. However, I don't really see what Korea can do about that. The cost of living in a country isn't really something that people can consciously control as far as I know. There's really nothing that can be done about it. Which makes me wonder why it's even in an article called "It's time for Korea to start to pay attention to the West". Opportunity Cost
While you are in Korea for one month, you are missing countless online and LAN tournaments alike. If you move to Korea for one month to focus solely on the GSL, you are forgoing an average of $19,000 USD in potential earnings every 15 days¹.
With major LAN tournaments outside of Korea such as the MLG, conflicting dates become a huge issue. For instance, the GSL World Championships were held right through MLG Dallas. This left FnaticMSI players TT1 and SEn unable to compete in MLG due to being in Korea.
This situation is happening again with MLG Columbus and the GSL’s Super Tournament. The Super Tournament, a one-month long affair, caused yet another choice to be made for players – go to Korea, or Columbus, Ohio. The choice in this case is obvious – Columbus, it is more important.
The GSL tried to remedy this situation by allowing foreigners the option of playing their matches around the dates for MLG Columbus. However, the solution provided by the GSL was feeble at best. You cannot realistically expect any team in eSports in its current form to spend $1,500+ to send a player to Korea for a few matches, then hotel fees and miscellaneous expenses for MLG Columbus, and then another $1,500+ trip to Korea. Again, this is simply for one person – let alone an entire team of players.Sure, there are scheduling conflicts. Again, this is an issue that both sides need to work to resolve. The GSL is an ongoing thing - there's barely any room between one tournament and another. But this is a known thing - the GSL is a huge tournament, and every season lasts for around a month, so I don't really see much room for rescheduling on Korea's end. In contrast, many Western tournaments are typically much smaller and shorter than the GSL, so it seems like just by the nature of the large GSL compared to the smaller Western tournaments, the smaller Western tournaments (which are more flexible by nature) are the ones that need to schedule themselves around the GSL. Obligations
Now, why was it an ‘obvious choice’ that MLG Columbus is more important than the GSL’s Super Tournament? Sponsorship obligations. It is more beneficial for a team whose sponsors are regional to attend events in that specific region. The majority of Western team’s sponsors are either region based in Europe or North America, or that is where the majority of the team’s fans are located. It is where they have a presence.
http://fnatic.com/filestorage/imagedb/full/7697.jpgTake FnaticMSI for example. FnaticMSI has global and regional sponsors, giving FnaticMSI a little leeway in where they send players for events. That said, FnaticMSI’s focus remains on Europe. Europe is where FnaticMSI’s fans are, and where the regional sponsors are focused, giving a larger incentive to focus efforts on the European scene. Europe is more important to FnatcMSI sponsors than Korea is, as that is where they wish to grow and that is where they are based, it only makes sense.
It would not make sense to send your players to areas where you have no presence. If you do not have any global sponsors, or sponsors in Korea, why would spend time and money on that area? It is true that professional teams and players still send players to events outside of their home regions when possible. This is because eSports is based on the internet, and our players are still able to influence and affect fans in Europe, when competing in Korea. However, with that being said, when a situation comes along where two major events, one in a team’s home region, and the other in Korea pop up at the same time, the choice should be obvious where the team will send its players. They will send their players to their local regions major event. This way they are able to interact and connect with fans much better than if they were to go to Korea and force those same fans to follow online instead of in person.Sure, you have more sponsors where you're from. That's pretty obvious. But what do you want Korean to do about the problem? Have Korean companies sponsor you as well? Seems like the onus falls upon the Western teams to make those sponsorships happen - not the other way around. It feels like this article is just complaining about all the issues with sending foreign players to Korea, all under the implication that Korea needs to do something about it (thanks to the title, again. Perhaps I'm dwelling too much on the title, but hey, a title sets the tone for the rest of the article). The article just feels like it's stating tons of problems and giving meager/no solutions, all under the implication that Korea needs to try harder to accomodate foreigners (even though many of the problems aren't even Korea's obligation to solve, such as the cultural and sponsorship issues). It's just... kind of annoying. /end rant Prompts for alot of job you put into it, but you missed the whole point of the article. As i mentioned few posts earlier, this article is basically saying that until GSL won't change drastically, no foreigners for you Korea. Look at Koreans competing in Dreamhack/MLG. They don't have to stay in US/EU for a month... they won't miss their GSL matches... Why is it so? Because MLG and Dreamhack don't last a month and Koreans can just fly over, grab some cash and come back to THEIR HOME. If GSL wants some foreigners, they should have some 1 week tournaments too. Did I really miss the main point of the article? Maybe I really just fail at reading comprehension, but I see nowhere in the article that it makes its main point the one that you described. It sounds like you didn't read the article carefully at all if you think its main point is that Korea needs smaller tournaments. The article talks about cultural, communication, scheduling, cost, and sponsorship issues. It dedicates a single small paragraph to what you claim is the article's main point: If you did not do well in Korea, and after one week, you are already out of the tournament, you now have three weeks left in Korea with no events there to take part in. Three weeks with zero local events and all of the same costs as if you were to do well in the GSL.I don't think you're right about the article's main point at all. EDIT: I kind of misread your post because your sentence about what the article was saying was worded kind of oddly. Either way, a majority of my reply to you still stands. The article complains about things far beyond the scope of the GSL, so I don't see how its main point is about how the GSL needs to change or Korea won't get foreigners. Well... i won't argue with you who has better comprehention since i'm polish so it gives me an instant handicap with foreign languages which english is actually for me. How i understood the point of the article is that in order to attract more foreigners to Korea, GSL must change. Iit's too much of a cost for us to compete there. They have the luxury of home, their culture etc. Koreans have a good shot at winning foreign lans so it's not big of a deal to fly to Europe or America and take a few days from their calendar. Basically GSL wants more foreigners and it's good, but their doing it wrong now. That's how i see it and seems that's how the author sees it too.
I apologize if my comment about reading comprehension seemed like a subtle jab at yours. I was sincerely considering the possibility that I misread the article when I typed up the start of my reply, so I went back and reread it to be sure.
Anyway, I still feel that the Gom has done enough. What more would you expect Gom to do? When you say "they're doing it (attracting foreigners) wrong", what would you propose is the right way to go about things? Like I said before, the article talks about problems relating to culture, high costs of living in Korea, communication, practice partners, and sponsorships. There's only so much Gom can do, and I simply believe that they've already done plenty, and that foreigners really need to put more effort in if they want to make things work - and these articles about how Korea's the one that needs to accomodate foreigners, rather than the other way around, doesn't help anything.
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On May 25 2011 22:26 5ukkub wrote: Ask any foreign is he ready to forfeit his family, friend, home, basically everything he had so far for a chance that slim. So slim, that to be successfull, you need to be in Korea for at least a year and probably longer, like IdrA. IdrA was in korea for soooo long and yes, it made him better, but at what cost? And the thing is, IdrA was lucky to be picked by a progame team and actually get paid so he could stay there.
If anyone would want to go to Korea for only 1 tournament a month and leave EVERYTHING behind, he's either retarded, or his team has shit tons of money to keep him there until he actually starts achieveing something.
Welcome to real life, where everything comes with a sacrifice.
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Gotta love excuses. I have asked this before in similar threads so I will pose it again: What foreign pros are making the majority of their income from winning/participating in tournaments?
These players make their money streaming/coaching. I have no problem with that. But don't try to bullshit with this silly notion they are missing out on something. Most of the larger international tournaments are online, with koreans in them. They are playing with a handicap but I don't see them getting dominated, so that is something that has to be considered.
There are very few opportunities that close by going to korea. There are many personal reasons that someone would have not to go, and those are understandable. But this whole comparative cost/benefit analysis is silly.
It simply comes down to players that want to stay casual players and compete. And with that you will see sc2 go the way of bw, where koreans are a sure win in every tournament they enter. We aren't quite there yet, but give it time and this part-time pro style environment foreigners are becoming accustomed to will bring us there.
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So GOM should:
Pay for foreigners' travel costs Teach Koreans to speak fluent English Get practice partners so foreigners can practice Lower the cost of living in Korea Change Korean culture to better suit foreigners
I think that covers everything. Let me contact GOM, I'm sure they'll get right on it.
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The west needs to make bigger tournament with higher prize pools. It feels like SC2 is just being spammed with tournaments with crappy prize pool in comparison to the GSL, which in return just makes it feel like another "computer game" SC1 pro matches had everything.. hot korean booth girlss man, what does the west have? just amature interview with huk who just swears in them just to make the quality of eSport gaming so low. Why don't we all just put our difference aside and combine it into 1 big huge prize pool. TSL,NASL,DREAMHACK and MLG just join into 1 gaming league. and divide each share appropiately. Maybe we could have a home studio like GOM does....
And yes generally it depends on their personality to be able to fit in with strangers... Just look at ret and idra. I can tell if they moved into a progaming house I was at. I wouldn't even bother to make friends with them at all or interact with them... i mean just look at them, their personality does not fit korea very well... and maybe haypro too hes just too nice and his appearance dont seem to suit living with koreans..(maybe if they were all foreingers living together then it may be different and much more comfortable.)
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On May 25 2011 23:52 HolyArrow wrote:This article actually kind of pisses me off. I'll explain why by going through it piece by piece, italicizing every part and responding underneath the italics individually. Allow me to preface this with my annoyance at the chosen titles of these articles. A while ago, we had an article called "The Korean Problem", and, now, here's one called, "It is time for Korea to start paying attention to the West." ...What? Why do all these titles imply the issues with the Korean and foreigner scenes are all Korea's fault? They're misleading at best, and bring the articles to a rather misleading start due to the fallacious implications of the titles. Introduction
For many years, the Western world has been following the Korean eSports scene intently, gathering information and keeping up to date with all of the various professional teams, tournaments and events. Now with the Western Starcraft 2 scene surpassing that of even Korea, it is time for the Korean eSports professionals to start taking notes.
Is the Western SC2 scene really surpassing Korea's? Can any tournament in the West pull off as many viewers as the GSL does? Sure, there are many more smaller tournaments in the West, but can you really just straight up say that the Western SC2 scene is surpassing Korea's (especially in light of Blizzard and Kespa reaching an agreement)? Bottom line: Citation friggin' needed. This has never been so apparent up until the past few weeks. With the GSL Super Tournament, and the news accompanying it indicating that only two foreigners – who happen to live in Korea – will be participating in the prestigious event. Recently, the FnaticMSI.Starcraft 2 manager wrote his personal thoughts on why he believed no one wished to take part in the GSL Super Tournament. It was then followed up by a response from the GomTV broadcasters.Gom's response definitely showed some overlooking of real issues regarding foreigner participation, so I agree that there are communication problems. However, I'm pretty sure that Xeris's article had some of its facts wrong, which many people pointed out later in the topic that it was posted in. Dunno if it was fixed yet, but when I was reading the topic yesterday, it doesn't seem like any of the misinformation was remedied (if it is, then cool.) Living conditions
One of the deterrents for players moving to Korea in order to participate in the GSL sanctioned events is the conditions. When a Westerner moves to Korea they leave behind more than an address, they leave behind friends and family – a home. They leave behind their support network, the people they count on and the people who count on them. It is no easy task to simply pick up and move to the other side of the world.Fair enough. Very valid point. No qualms with this. Then once you arrive in Korea, you are expected to live with a group of strangers – most of the time, sharing a room with them. Western cultures are far different from that of Asian cultures such as that in Korea. Moving from a nice familiar home where you would have your own room, privacy and the freedom to do as you please to a house where you share a room with multiple people you probably do not know personally and share everything can be quite difficult. It takes a lot of time and effort to make this new unfamiliar destination your home.
This is where things start getting kind of ridiculous in my opinion. First of all, it bothers me how the difference in living conditions is painted as a "cultural thing". Sure, you could call it that. But, what you could (and should, since it's closer to the truth) call it is simply a difference in willingness to accept a less comfortable standard of living. This paragraph seems to be saying, "Oh, it's so hard for Westerners to adapt to conditions in Korea because of such cultural differences in living!" Nah. More like, it's hard for Westerners to adapt to living conditions in Korea because they can't handle not having the aforementioned luxuries in the paragraph I quoted. You can call it cultural differences, you can call it being spoiled and/or inflexible. I personally don't see how culture has anything to do with it, and "cultural difference" is just a pretty phrase to mask the uncomfortable truth that, perhaps, Korean progamers are simply willing to sacrifice more for the sake of a really cost-efficient practice environment. Combine the tight living quarters with vastly different cultural norms, and you have a very stressful situation for anyone who has not taken precautions to prepare themselves. Even if you have taken precautions, it can be a daunting task. You are required to adapt to new foods, new customs, new ethics, and new rules – and you are expected to adapt quickly. On top of all of this is the language barrier. For years, there has been an incredibly large rift between Korean eSports and Western eSports solely because of the language barrier. It is very difficult to communicate even the most basic ideas with broken English or Korean, but to actually develop relationships and communicate regularly on a daily basis will surely cause complications time to time.The food is pretty good, and pretty damn Westerner-friendly in my opinion. I guess you could disagree with me on that, but then you'd be saying that you have trouble adapting to stuff like Korean BBQ, which is pretty hard to believe, to say the least. Adapting to new customs, ethics, etc. simply sounds like simple etiquette for visiting another country. As for language, yes, it's difficult to communicate in Korea when you don't speak the language of their country. So learn Korean. This article is called "It is time for Korea to start paying attention in the West", and a paragraph dedicated to talking about how cultural differences and a language barrier make it difficult for foreigners carries the ridiculous implication that the Korean scene is somehow obliged to accomodate Westerners in terms of culture and language. What, do you expect Koreans to learn English just to make a foreigner's transition into Korea an easier experience? You're going into THEIR country - learn their damn language or don't complain. Practice conditions
All of the above of course leads to the practice conditions. Westerners are unable to communicate with Korean teams effectively, if at all, this makes it highly unlikely that you will see too many foreigners in a pro-gaming house in Korea.
This leaves players with the option of going to the GSL foreigner house. The GSL foreigner house – open to any gamers wishing to try their hand at entering the GSL is a wonderful idea. The house has all of your basic needs, a place to sleep, a bathroom and shower, and a room for you to set up practice Starcraft 2. However, it does not come equipped with professional gamers or any additional means of getting good practice. Players are left to their own devices, which usually ends up with them laddering on the Korean ladder.Like I said, learning Korean when you go to, you know, Korea, would help communication a lot. Sure, it's a pretty difficult task, but if you're truly dedicated to being a progamer and you want to practice with the best, you adapt so you can communicate with the best - not the other way around. Koreans have shown to be very willing to make friends with foreigners - Look at Liquid and oGs, for example. The only issue is communication, and, frankly, you just need to learn Korean at that point. If Koreans were coming to the U.S and started complaining about language barriers, then I'd tell them the same thing - they need to learn the language of the country they're going to. If you are able to speak Korean and the cultural conditions do not put you off, you can always try contacting a professional Korean team to live with and practice. However, finding a team willing or able to take in a foreign player is highly unlikely. The professional teams in Korea do not necessarily know the players wanting to live in their house personally, or even have room in their house for more players – of another team – to come and stay.A true point. This is where foreign players really need to just be proactive in making friends (which first starts with learning Korean, again - communication is so important). While it's unfortunate that Korean team houses are full and are unable to fit foreigners, I highly doubt that Korean players wouldn't be open to the idea of practicing with foreigner friends over B-net. I think you just have to really be polite and approach people on B-net, perhaps having team managers talk things over to arrange for practice partners on both ends. You don't need to be in the same house to practice together (and players definitely practice with players from different teams - this is apparent from almost any interview following a match win - the player thanks various practice partners, some of whom are obviously not on the same team). Costs of moving to Korea
Getting to Korea and being able to afford living there for the allotted time is another huge concern for any professional gamer or team looking to venture into Korea. With the average cost of a flight to Korea being $1,500 USD, and the additional living expenses such as food, phone, miscellaneous travel, etc, and you are looking at an extremely large bill for sending just one player to Korea for a month to compete in a regular season of the GSL.
Now let us say that you are doing well in Korea, and you are progressing through the various rounds in Code A or S. Now the ESL and MLG event organizers are hosting tournaments this month that you are expected to attend. Add another $1,500 flight for each of those events, the additional $300 for each events hotel rooms, as well as miscellaneous travel costs while at the venue, and your costs for that month are now three or four times as high as they would be if you were still living in your home country in Europe or North America.
If you did not do well in Korea, and after one week, you are already out of the tournament, you now have three weeks left in Korea with no events there to take part in. Three weeks with zero local events and all of the same costs as if you were to do well in the GSL.
That is for one individual player. Imagine if you will, sending an entire team to compete in a regular season GSL event for one month. Suddenly you increased your costs by five times as much. Not only that, but you are looking at an increasingly difficult time in finding them a place where they can all stay together as a team.
It's true that the cost of living in Korea is quite expensive. However, I don't really see what Korea can do about that. The cost of living in a country isn't really something that people can consciously control as far as I know. There's really nothing that can be done about it. Which makes me wonder why it's even in an article called "It's time for Korea to start to pay attention to the West". Opportunity Cost
While you are in Korea for one month, you are missing countless online and LAN tournaments alike. If you move to Korea for one month to focus solely on the GSL, you are forgoing an average of $19,000 USD in potential earnings every 15 days¹.
With major LAN tournaments outside of Korea such as the MLG, conflicting dates become a huge issue. For instance, the GSL World Championships were held right through MLG Dallas. This left FnaticMSI players TT1 and SEn unable to compete in MLG due to being in Korea.
This situation is happening again with MLG Columbus and the GSL’s Super Tournament. The Super Tournament, a one-month long affair, caused yet another choice to be made for players – go to Korea, or Columbus, Ohio. The choice in this case is obvious – Columbus, it is more important.
The GSL tried to remedy this situation by allowing foreigners the option of playing their matches around the dates for MLG Columbus. However, the solution provided by the GSL was feeble at best. You cannot realistically expect any team in eSports in its current form to spend $1,500+ to send a player to Korea for a few matches, then hotel fees and miscellaneous expenses for MLG Columbus, and then another $1,500+ trip to Korea. Again, this is simply for one person – let alone an entire team of players.Sure, there are scheduling conflicts. Again, this is an issue that both sides need to work to resolve. The GSL is an ongoing thing - there's barely any room between one tournament and another. But this is a known thing - the GSL is a huge tournament, and every season lasts for around a month, so I don't really see much room for rescheduling on Korea's end. In contrast, many Western tournaments are typically much smaller and shorter than the GSL, so it seems like just by the nature of the large GSL compared to the smaller Western tournaments, the smaller Western tournaments (which are more flexible by nature) are the ones that need to schedule themselves around the GSL. Obligations
Now, why was it an ‘obvious choice’ that MLG Columbus is more important than the GSL’s Super Tournament? Sponsorship obligations. It is more beneficial for a team whose sponsors are regional to attend events in that specific region. The majority of Western team’s sponsors are either region based in Europe or North America, or that is where the majority of the team’s fans are located. It is where they have a presence.
http://fnatic.com/filestorage/imagedb/full/7697.jpgTake FnaticMSI for example. FnaticMSI has global and regional sponsors, giving FnaticMSI a little leeway in where they send players for events. That said, FnaticMSI’s focus remains on Europe. Europe is where FnaticMSI’s fans are, and where the regional sponsors are focused, giving a larger incentive to focus efforts on the European scene. Europe is more important to FnatcMSI sponsors than Korea is, as that is where they wish to grow and that is where they are based, it only makes sense.
It would not make sense to send your players to areas where you have no presence. If you do not have any global sponsors, or sponsors in Korea, why would spend time and money on that area? It is true that professional teams and players still send players to events outside of their home regions when possible. This is because eSports is based on the internet, and our players are still able to influence and affect fans in Europe, when competing in Korea. However, with that being said, when a situation comes along where two major events, one in a team’s home region, and the other in Korea pop up at the same time, the choice should be obvious where the team will send its players. They will send their players to their local regions major event. This way they are able to interact and connect with fans much better than if they were to go to Korea and force those same fans to follow online instead of in person.Sure, you have more sponsors where you're from. That's pretty obvious. But what do you want Korean to do about the problem? Have Korean companies sponsor you as well? Seems like the onus falls upon the Western teams to make those sponsorships happen - not the other way around. It feels like this article is just complaining about all the issues with sending foreign players to Korea, all under the implication that Korea needs to do something about it (thanks to the title, again. Perhaps I'm dwelling too much on the title, but hey, a title sets the tone for the rest of the article). The article just feels like it's stating tons of problems and giving meager/no solutions, all under the implication that Korea needs to try harder to accomodate foreigners (even though many of the problems aren't even Korea's obligation to solve, such as the cultural and sponsorship issues). It's just... kind of annoying. /end rant Just read this rebuttal if nothing else.
Something that's tough for me to comprehend is what more do people expect? The fact you have room and board paid for seems pretty sick to me. You also have a chance to compete against the very best. You want to be a pro-gamer, but now you don't want to pay your dues, because it's too tough? Let's reward you like a champ before you've accomplished anything. This is why I respect players like Idra, Huk, Jinro, and Naniwa who said he's going to Korea because it's where he can grow as a player. Alot of these foreigners are theorycrafting about what it's like to go through the Korean progamer lifestyle, without ever doing it. Where is that competitive mentality?
I'm just a fan, so I guess I'm missing something, but I've known some pro/olympic athletes wannabes and/or has beens. The guys who gave it 100% and went for it, but just couldn't do it seem to be in a much better place, than the guys who half-hearted it. Maybe it's because that attitude eventually translated into their next careers.
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Getting to Korea and being able to afford living there for the allotted time is another huge concern for any professional gamer or team looking to venture into Korea. With the average cost of a flight to Korea being $1,500 USD, and the additional living expenses such as food, phone, miscellaneous travel, etc, and you are looking at an extremely large bill for sending just one player to Korea for a month to compete in a regular season of the GSL.
Now let us say that you are doing well in Korea, and you are progressing through the various rounds in Code A or S. Now the ESL and MLG event organizers are hosting tournaments this month that you are expected to attend. Add another $1,500 flight for each of those events, the additional $300 for each events hotel rooms, as well as miscellaneous travel costs while at the venue, and your costs for that month are now three or four times as high as they would be if you were still living in your home country in Europe or North America.
If you did not do well in Korea, and after one week, you are already out of the tournament, you now have three weeks left in Korea with no events there to take part in. Three weeks with zero local events and all of the same costs as if you were to do well in the GSL.
Sorry - heavily disagree with that paragraph. Flight to Korea - you are correct - that's expensive (and covered for Code S/A players who qualified via MLG). Btw - friend of mine is currently studying in Korea - flight cost Austria->Korea was ~900$. I agree though that earlier notification that players are invited to special tournaments (WC, Super Tournament) would be nice & better.
"food, phone, miscellaneous travel" So progamers dont have to pay for food when they're at home? They dont have a phonebill Btw, skype? Does the foreigner house have a phone which they can use to call GOM / practice partners? If not - a prepaid phone is ~20€ in SK, though I dont see why a progamer would need one for a max 1month stay. They dont have to pay for the bus to go shopping (or whatever else you count as other travel) when living @home?
Now the ESL / MLG is asking the progamer to fly over. Why do you use 1500$ again? Dont you have to pay for the flight from <player's home> to MLG/ESL as well? Why not use the difference? Then you mention the 300$ hotels and "miscellaneous travel costs while at the venue" - why do those only apply for the players who participate in Korea and not to players who "were still living in your home country in Europe or North America."?
Btw - say a player is winning MLG and therefore qualified for Code S - why should he not take the free flight to Korea, play 1 day, play until you lose (or lose on purpose if you hate Korea), take the free flight back, say you will forfeit the next GSL (so you leave an empty spot for the next MLG qualifier) all while you take the RO32 Code S participation money (~1900$ iirc)?
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If you want to be the best, sacrifices have to be made. That's it. If you're not willing to do that, you'll just have to accept that you might not be able to compete with the best.
The financial situation might not be the same but for example football players from all over the world drop everything to move to a foreign country with a foreign language like Spain/Italy/England/etc and train and play (or just sit on the bench) with the best of the best.
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The main article talks about general struggles that are true of any ex-pat assignment. Going to another culture and trying to adapt while maintaining a productive work schedule is very difficult. There is nothing that can be done about that though, that is just the reality of trying to live and be productive in another culture.
If a progamer wants to become a big-time competitor in Korea there is no easy solution, they must accept the differences and work their way up, make connections with practice partners, and deal with the living conditions until they can afford to live more comfortably.
There is no mystery about what the schedules of Korean tournaments will be, so if the western gaming world wants to try to adapt to that maybe that is a good idea, but there is no reason for a booming Korean e-sport market to try to change anything in order to better accommodate the west.
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Only valid point is the language, rest is purely subjective and unless you're pretty spoiled it's not too difficult to adapt. I lived most of my life in the country side and in reasonably big places but I enjoyed living in a small dorm room with 3 other people for a few years where you barely had space to move around. Not too difficult when you realize you don't really need that extra space, it's a bed and a roof, there's always parks if you want space and they're a lot better than any house.
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Something that GOM can do is shorten the GSL tournaments. They don't need to cast every single match - mainly show the higher profile ones. If you look at the grand slam tennis tournaments, they are over in 2 wks. Making them 1 month will make it harder for the players.
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On May 26 2011 02:16 Azzur wrote: Something that GOM can do is shorten the GSL tournaments. They don't need to cast every single match - mainly show the higher profile ones. If you look at the grand slam tennis tournaments, they are over in 2 wks. Making them 1 month will make it harder for the players. eeeuh, even if you don't air them all you still need to play them all. They already got a totally full schedule so unless they completely redesign how the tournament works i don't see how its possible to shorten it.
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On May 26 2011 00:31 StarStruck wrote: I don't know why you guys are speculating. The teams and players know why they aren't and the excuses vary and are valid.
This has been brought up on more than one occasion and Gretech is still processing what else needs to be done.
I don't see why this conversation should continue. The teams will be contact with Gretech with regards to the next step.
Yeah I agree with what you said on this topic, sometimes taking things at face value is the best choice and not trying to fill it with drama like almost everything else. Everything will change slowly over time and things will turn out positive if everyone just respects the situation rather than expect every single thing from it.
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Yea sorry, Gom has already made several accommodations to foreigners. What makes you think they deserve a cakewalk? Koreans work harder and are better as a result for a reason. The biggest thing other than "personal reasons" isn't the living cost or the opportunity cost from the tournaments, it's the skill difference. Most foreigners know they won't even come close to winning a GSL if they participate, thus they stay away from the tournament because if you have no chance of winning, obviously you're gonna be losing money guaranteed.
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I think the biggest problem is the living cost... everything would be solved if GSL was an online tournament? Maybe if they did it "TSL3" style (fly ppl for finals over), it would be better... sure, it would be way less exciting, but I think it would attract a much bigger pool of players. (Another fix would be increasing prize pool??)
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On May 26 2011 01:13 NHY wrote: So GOM should:
Pay for foreigners' travel costs Teach Koreans to speak fluent English Get practice partners so foreigners can practice Lower the cost of living in Korea Change Korean culture to better suit foreigners
I think that covers everything. Let me contact GOM, I'm sure they'll get right on it.
Was about to post the same thing...can also add renting out private apartments to make sure theyre not sharing a room with other people. The OP is nicely formatted but the arguments made are retarted and not even related to pro gaming except for the last paragraph or two. The first thread by Xeris pretty much covered every point did we really need another one which makes even less sense?
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