On May 25 2011 22:06 legaton wrote: if you want to farm more gold, you may try to play some World of Warcraft. The rationality of decision making of SC2 players and managers saddens and angers me. The opportunity cost is too high and the competition level too harsh? OK, but what happened to the ambition of competitive gaming?
wait u mean people dont need to make money to live? its a business, when sponsors see that the return on their investment is little to none, why would they bother to sponsor anymore?? and without sponsors, what do the teams/players do?
its great if this was a world where people can compete without regards to cost, but it isn't.
Any problem with foreigners in Korea will be solved if a foreign is good enough to win the GSL, and for that they have to train like in Korea and sacrifice like in Korea and make everything like in Korea, it is an absurd mentality to think that everything in life has to be fix it in order to your requirements. If you are good enough: go to Korea, if not, stay at home and play MLG,NASL,IPL, etc and give some coaching for extra bucks. Seriously, whining about this is just lame.
On May 25 2011 22:56 Pandemona wrote: I really dont think there is any problem with Korea calling itself the home of SC, it has earnt this title from its BroodWar days, it also probably has the 3 best players of every race in Korea at the moment.
The reason not many people go to Korea to enter the GSL qualifiers is simply because of cost, it is not cheap buying/renting a house to stay in to practice to then try and qualify in a country you don't know much about. Even if you did get an invite into the GOM house or were able to share a house with another korean progamming team like oGs/Liquid it is not easy to just turn up and qualify first time in the "home of SC" To be the best at something you must risk losing it all, you cannont cruise your way to the top, you have to make sacrafices train riddicously hard like they do in korea (9hours a day, every day) to then have a chance at becoming the best. To say that the West has bad players is not correct at all but to say they are the worlds best is not accurate either, dont get me wrong there are some top top top players from the West, but to say Korea isnt the home of SC or it should take notes on the West is completly baffling me. The big teams in the west have taken up the idra of the gaming houses to train together the only difference is they are doing it in a country that speaks english.
The only way to settle the argument of who's way is best, is to finally have a tournament of the Top 8 EU/USA/CHINA/SEA/KR players to compete in 1 world wide tournament, but i doubt we will ever see this because of where it will be and how much prize money it would actually need to be for it to actually attract the top players to the area of the tournament to compete in it.
Money will always be the key factor in this debate aswell in my opinon, reason Idra moved out of Korea was because he saw nice prize money in the US/EU tournament scene coming along and would be able to compete and train from his own country for these tournaments, not suck in Korea waiting for every GSL
There is tournament called WCG.
For anyone not knowing what WCG is, it's World Cyber Games... It's like the E-Sports Olympics which over 60 countries participate with national qualifiers and was created and sponsored by Samsung Electronics from Korea.
On May 25 2011 22:56 Pandemona wrote: I really dont think there is any problem with Korea calling itself the home of SC, it has earnt this title from its BroodWar days, it also probably has the 3 best players of every race in Korea at the moment.
The reason not many people go to Korea to enter the GSL qualifiers is simply because of cost, it is not cheap buying/renting a house to stay in to practice to then try and qualify in a country you don't know much about. Even if you did get an invite into the GOM house or were able to share a house with another korean progamming team like oGs/Liquid it is not easy to just turn up and qualify first time in the "home of SC" To be the best at something you must risk losing it all, you cannont cruise your way to the top, you have to make sacrafices train riddicously hard like they do in korea (9hours a day, every day) to then have a chance at becoming the best. To say that the West has bad players is not correct at all but to say they are the worlds best is not accurate either, dont get me wrong there are some top top top players from the West, but to say Korea isnt the home of SC or it should take notes on the West is completly baffling me. The big teams in the west have taken up the idra of the gaming houses to train together the only difference is they are doing it in a country that speaks english.
The only way to settle the argument of who's way is best, is to finally have a tournament of the Top 8 EU/USA/CHINA/SEA/KR players to compete in 1 world wide tournament, but i doubt we will ever see this because of where it will be and how much prize money it would actually need to be for it to actually attract the top players to the area of the tournament to compete in it.
Money will always be the key factor in this debate aswell in my opinon, reason Idra moved out of Korea was because he saw nice prize money in the US/EU tournament scene coming along and would be able to compete and train from his own country for these tournaments, not suck in Korea waiting for every GSL
There is tournament called WCG.
Which has not happend in SC2 life yet, will be interesting to see who goes, but yes this happens to little and will be good viewing. But my point still stands, IEM DreamHack MLG all invite like 4-5 Koreans, and i cant remember a tournament inviting a chinese pro
Just a thing to add, I think progamers are making their money by streaming nowadays mostly. A Naniwa vs Korean ladder streaming 5 hours a day for a month would earn him a lot more than entering zotax cup#1542 100€ prizepool imo, in addition to a very correct training. That could be a good way to finance a korean trip. edit : forgot coaching. The funny thing is, writing this post made me realise that most western progamers are earning their money by NOT playing haha.
The difference in korean society and western in regards to e-sport is the acceptance in culture. Professional Gamers in western countries are NERDS. Professional Gamers in korea are rockstars.
On May 25 2011 22:36 eight.BiT wrote: Whats your point? FINALS in MLG happens later that day, not later that month.
His point is, that the reason that makes you stay a whole month is, you actually reached the finals. So you already won a lot of money. If you lose in the first round, you can fly home after day one.
Anc concerning the OP, I think if the best league in the world, the one that is offering the greatest competition by far, tries to accomodate people much more than any other league does, andsome people still don't want to play in it because they might lose and not make any money, than it's not the league's fault. At all. So I don't think Korea has to learn from the west, I think western progamers have to learn from korean progamers if they want to be as good. If they are not willing to sacrifice personal stuff, that's totally okay, but I'm certain that the amount of hard work, discipline and sacrifice of korean progamers will pay off in the long run.
Unless of course, Code A, where you don't make a ton of money if you just make it to the top 8 and still have to wait the whole duration for your up-and-down match, which if you lose, you're back to where you started.
On May 25 2011 23:10 MrCon wrote: Just a thing to add, I think progamers are making their money by streaming nowadays mostly. A Naniwa vs Korean ladder streaming 5 hours a day for a month would earn him a lot more than entering zotax cup#1542 100€ prizepool imo, in addition to a very correct training. That could be a good way to finance a korean trip.
Yes, as long as the streamer gets some money to pay the bill's, food and living from somewhere else. Otherwise i'd say all the money goes to that instead of your "korean trip fund".
On May 25 2011 23:10 MrCon wrote: Just a thing to add, I think progamers are making their money by streaming nowadays mostly. A Naniwa vs Korean ladder streaming 5 hours a day for a month would earn him a lot more than entering zotax cup#1542 100€ prizepool imo, in addition to a very correct training. That could be a good way to finance a korean trip.
Yes, as long as the streamer gets some money to pay the bill's, food and living from somewhere else. Otherwise i'd say all the money goes to that instead of your "korean trip fund".
yep, but if you live in the gom house it's already a lot of money saved. A 5k viewers stream for 5 hours a day would make like 10k$ a month (didn't calculate but it seems accurate enough) And a guy like Naniwa playing vs the Korean server would likely explode the 5k viewers mark.
you write this after mlg/gsl contract? and i'm sorry, but i think xeris is kinda whining. i can understand to an extent that he wants a little earlier notice, but he was talking about 3-4 months or more, and that's kinda bs. A month should be more than enough time to decide
We can all count on the Western scene being greatly reduced in the following two or three years, after the expansions are out and 95% of Western players lose interest in the game.
The OP's right in saying that Western culture is different from Asian culture . . . when Koreans start playing a game and they like it, they stick to it. Westerners are more prone to jump on to the next big fad.
Germans shouldn't really have that much of a problem with the language barrier... they both use a Subject-Object-Verb type language... learning that type of language wouldn't be too difficult
On May 25 2011 22:40 jpak wrote: I would not have cared if GomTV didn't name the tournament Global Starcraft2 League. I would've just said, "Oh, Korea has a domestic league, U.S has its leagues, Europe has its leagues. All we need now is a tournament or two every year to bring the best of these leagues together. Oh wait, WCG, and there could be more."
They allow anyone to play in their tournaments provided they pass the qualifiers. They already pay for the housing for foreigners. The barrier lies in the difficulty in staying in the tournaments.
Only read the intro, conclusion and the body's titles (for the most part, this has been talked a whole bunch. But I could understand your meaning). You bring up good points and i love the conclusion that we just need better communication between all parties.
I'd have a criticism however, in the intro. It almost makes it sound (and the title helps) like the koreans are doing this on purpose. Like when Xeris' and the broadcaster's thoughts are put as opposing sides of an argument. But the Gomtv broadcaster was only speaking for itself (NOT for Gom), while the article makes it sound as if Gom had spoken through him. If anything, Gom and MLG are working together to improve that process, they've been relatively vocal about it. At least Sundance has anyway. Also, as far as I know, koreans would indeed like a few more foreigners in the GSL (someone speaking korean can feel free to disprove that though).
Communication between the events is happening, at least on some level. The GSL schedule has breaks for Dreamhack, MLG and IEM. So I guess what you'd be wishing for is more communication between the events and the teams. That would probably be a good thing, I imagine.
Korea seems to be a huge risk/reward type of deal. If a team sends people and they do well, its instant fame, as GSL draws tons of viewers. If players don't do well, despite being very skilled (like Haypro & Ret), they get basically no exposure for the time they are in Korea.
You can't forget why this article was written in the first place. First, it was the announcement of GSL and MLG player exchange. Then the GSL Super Tournament. Both with intentions to bring the foreign players to Korea.
It basicaly shows that the approach that GSL is trying to attract players with won't work.
If the GSL Super Tournament or even GSL itself would last a week at most, i think we would hawe a swarm of foreigners there, but a month? And with such a close proximity time with other tournaments?
If GSL wants more foreigners to play, they need to change themselves, otherwise it's just not gonna happend with maybe 1 or 2 exceptions.
1) If foreigners would want to come to Korea it would be once or twice a year for an event similar to MLG, Dreamhack, that lasts not a month but a week at most.
2) Second way to attrtact more players would be just to make more tournaments there, on many levels of competition.
3) Third way is to increase the prize money to $1million so even the sacrifice of home and friends isn't enough to keep you stay in EU/NA.
IMO the first option is the most likely to be and i would love it.
There is nothing wrong with either scenes! They are just different;
Korean scene, 30 day tournaments, small area, monolingual (primary language: Korean), homogeneous scene, no large on-line tournaments, one ladder/servers, many pro-gaming houses,
Foreign scene, 3 day tournaments, huge area, multilingual (primary language: English), heterogeneous scene, large on line tournaments, many ladders/servers, few pro-gaming houses
I can go on for a while... but I pointed out the main differences
Obviously it's going to be a huge investment to send someone to Korea. I don't understand the point of this article other than to say that it's hard to send players to Korea...
"Korea needs to pay attention to the West" ? You didn't say why.
EPT
