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On December 29 2011 03:23 Jombozeus wrote:
On the topic of China... There are at least 3 Chinese players in the top 200 of the korean ladder that I know of, and maybe a few that I don't under smurfs. Xigua is consistently top 30 GM in Korea.
There aren't many pro players in China, but the ones that are pro are definitely capable of making Code A.
For reference, Destiny is 150th on Korean ladder, Naniwa maxed out at rank 6 and is now rank ~50 due to lag with his setup, Sen is ~40, Jinro is ~50, Stephano is ~20-30 when he plays. This is definitely not be-all end-all, as ladder really doesn't show who is going to win tournaments, but is without a doubt the best gauge of average skill and consistency that we have.
Speaking of Sen, I don't understand why no one even considers Taiwan. Taiwan has a bustling scene with, Sen Hui Slam and a few others consistenly within top masters in Korea. Even luway, an amateur female gamer, placed in NA GM in season 3 with a ladder record of 70-10 or something like that. Taiwan has 5 teams in the pro circuit, with many members fully capable of surviving in Code A.
Because most of the people these people call for being amazing never put up results, period. Xigua and Sen are really the only people that have put up any form of real results, saying well omg i can tell they're good cause of they're stream and random tourneys that don't really matter (this is about non sen-xigua people) doesn't justify them being good on the proscene. that being said there are about 100 reasons why rank in gm shouldn't be used to say how awesome someone is, yes sometimes it can be indicative of skill, but not everyone tries 100% among other obvious issues.
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Sweden/Ukraine at the top then a huge dropoff. I'd probably put China/USA/Germany/Canada/France in the second tier.
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On December 29 2011 03:19 Xoronius wrote:That was online. Offline they got demolished at IEM China, but made in into the final of WCG. Nobody really knows, how good they are.
Yeah, lets never mention WCG regarding skill again.
It is still Sweden btw.
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People are kind of forgetting Poland which has better lineup than for example France.
Nerchio, Mana, Tarson + Slider, Paranoid and bunch of other quite good players.
As for the general question (I am not counting China, too hard to judge) :
1.Sweden, Ukraine - with Sweden having slight edge probably
2. Germany, Poland, USA, Canada - hard to actually pick one better than the others
4. France, Finland + maybe Russia
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Nr.1 Absolutley Sweden!
ThorZaIN
Naniwa
Sjow
Morrow
These guys speak for themsef!
Nr. 2
Ukraine has some awesome players aswell!
White Ra
Strelok
Dimaga
Nr. 3 Germay (<3)
Socke
Hasuobs
TLO (if he plays his best)
Darkeforce
Nr. 4 France!
MoMan
Stephano
Adellscott
Sarens.
Nr. 5 Poland!
Nercio
Mana
Tarson (even though he performs not as good as he did before.
The US and Canada don't deserve a place on this list considering IdrA and HuK are basicly Korean players! :D
Their other players can't be taken seriously.
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On December 29 2011 03:33 EventHorizoN wrote:
Nr.1 Absolutley Sweden!
ThorZaIN
Naniwa
Sjow
Morrow
These guys speak for themsef!
Nr. 2
Ukraine has some awesome players aswell!
White Ra
Strelok
Dimaga
Nr. 3 Germay (<3)
Socke
Hasuobs
TLO (if he plays his best)
Darkeforce
Nr. 4 France!
MoMan
Stephano
Adellscott
Sarens.
Nr. 5 Poland!
Nercio
Mana
Tarson (even though he performs not as good as he did before.
The US and Canada don't deserve a place on this list considering IdrA and HuK are basicly Korean players! :D
Their other players can't be taken seriously.
Naniwa has been in Korea for a while, can't count him then. Stephano is getting there, so is Thorzain, and so is Morrow...
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France :
Stephano / ToD / Adelscott / SarenS / MoMaN
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sweden, followed by ukraine
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On December 29 2011 03:36 GreEny K wrote:
Naniwa has been in Korea for a while, can't count him then. Stephano is getting there, so is Thorzain, and so is Morrow...
Idra trained in korea from before 2008.
Huk had 90% of the first part of his training take place in korea.
Going to korea != training like a korean... Look at the Gom foreigner house lol
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On December 29 2011 03:33 EventHorizoN wrote:
Nr.1 Absolutley Sweden!
ThorZaIN
Naniwa
Sjow
Morrow
These guys speak for themsef!
Nr. 2
Ukraine has some awesome players aswell!
White Ra
Strelok
Dimaga
Nr. 3 Germay (<3)
Socke
Hasuobs
TLO (if he plays his best)
Darkeforce
Nr. 4 France!
MoMan
Stephano
Adellscott
Sarens.
Nr. 5 Poland!
Nercio
Mana
Tarson (even though he performs not as good as he did before.
The US and Canada don't deserve a place on this list considering IdrA and HuK are basicly Korean players! :D
Their other players can't be taken seriously.
Ok, you forgot Kas for Ukarine, quite a big omission 
4th and 5th place should be in opposite order. Nerchio, Mana and Tarson are matched only by Stephano and sometimes rarely by Adelscott. If you count Moman and Sarens then you would have to count Slider and probably some other Polish players as well.
As for US : Idra,Sheth and some other players are still quite easily match for whichever country apart from Ukraine and Sweden.
Canada also has Kiwikaki and few other players so they should easily fit.
EDIT: forgot ToD, but even with that Poland still comes ahead.
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Ok, there is basically a consensus in this thread that Sweden and Ukraine have probably the strongest line ups. but how can we tell for sure?
Well why don't we organize a nation war where we have the top 5 players from both teams play in a bo9 all kill style match?
Then we would know who is better.
I would be way down, and so would the players i assume, I'm sure they all have a lot of patriotism.
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On December 29 2011 03:42 TheNessman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2011 03:36 GreEny K wrote:
Naniwa has been in Korea for a while, can't count him then. Stephano is getting there, so is Thorzain, and so is Morrow... Idra trained in korea from before 2008. Huk had 90% of the first part of his training take place in korea. Going to korea != training like a korean... Look at the Gom foreigner house lol
Then people can't count any Liquid player except Nony. The whole team was there and training with a Korean team.
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Why does it even matter, just because they trained there doesnt make someone korean the only reason they went there is because they were pretty damn good to begin with.
If a soccer player from brazil goes to play in europe like they usually do, they dont become europeans, they are not considered a product of european soccer or anything like that.
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Ukraine #1 probably, They just have some sick sick powerhouses in there. Sweden #2. Germany, Canada, US probably tie for #3. Maybe Germany a little below Canada and US.
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read this as north korea LOL
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Europe :
Z : Stephano, Dimaga, Ret, Nerchio
P : Naniwa, Mana, White-Ra,Sase
T : Thorzain, Kas, Beastyqt
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Sweden followed by Ukraine
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USA, only because we have the grack
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EPT
