EPTWhich Non-Korea Nation has the best pro lineup? - Page 31
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Krallman
Sweden713 Posts
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TheMenace
Germany244 Posts
On December 29 2011 02:19 red4ce wrote: I don't care for nitpicking your list but I am curious as to what South Korea's score would be under your system. Probably over 100. Over 9000!! | ||
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isleyofthenorth
Austria894 Posts
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discobaas
225 Posts
On December 29 2011 02:04 JoeAWESOME wrote: Sweden! We have so many talented players! Jinro, MorroW, SaSe, Haypro, Sjow, Thorzain, Naniwa, Merz, Bischu, Cytoplasm We also have lesser known players that are really good! Seiplo, Naugrim, Forsen, Runa... Now lets imagine this sick tournament. 10 nation tournament with some of the best players in the world. Bo7, All kill format! Team Sweden (Jinro, MorroW, SaSe, Naniwa, Thorzain, Haypro) Team Germany (TLO, Socke, Goody, Hasuhobs, Darkforce, Delphi) Team Ukraine (WhiteRa, Dimaga, Kas, Strelok, HappyZerg, Bly) Team Poland (Nerchio, Mana, DieStar, Tarson, SliDeR, ParanOid) Team Canada (Huk, KiwiKaki, DDE, Slush, TT1, Drewbie) Team USA (Idra, Sheth, Vibe, QXC, Tyler, Gatored) Team France (Stephano, SarenS, Adelscott, Tod, Carn, Kenzy) Team China (Xigua, MacSeed, Infi, TooDming, Loner, F91) Team Korea (Nestea, MVP, MMA, MC, DRG, Leenock) Team Russia (Brat_OK, TitaN, HappyZerg, + 3 more ) Obviously this would be played out live (like the GSTL). If this would happend then it would be by far the sickest tournament in the very young Sc2 history! Why would that be the sickest tournament lol, objectively it'd just be a poor man's gstl. | ||
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bGr.MetHiX
Bulgaria511 Posts
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Xoronius
Germany6362 Posts
On December 29 2011 01:07 Malaz wrote: So lets do this with a point system. I know this doesn't make the whole thing any less subjective, but I'm bored right now  I don't know the Chinese players well enough so I won't put them in the equation.A+: Top foreigner able to beat almost every top Korean in a Bo3 = 5 points A: Still one of the best foreigners, just a step away from A+ = 3 points B+: Player between A and B = 2,5 points B: Very strong player that can win online cups but no big lans = 2 points C+: Player between B and C = 1,5 points C: Players with great potential that haven't delivered results yet or players that used to be higher but are currently in a little slump = 1 point Sweden: Naniwa A+, SaSe A, ThorZain A, MorroW B+, SjoW B, Bischu B, hayprO B, Merz C+, Jinro C+, Seiplo C, Jimpo C, LaLush C, Naugrim C = 26,5 Canada: HuK A+, Kiwikaki B+, SLush B, TT1 C+, Drewbie C+, dde C, Ostojiy C = 14,5 USA: Idra A, Sheth B+, qxc C+, Gatored C+,Tyler C, Pokebunny C Machine C, iNcontroL C, KawaiiRice C, Painuser C = 14,5 Ukraine: White-Ra A, Dimaga A, Kas A, Strelok B+, Bly C+, HappyZerg C = 14 Germany HasuObs B+, Socke B+, GoOdy B+, TLO B, Darkforce C+, XlorD C+, Mondragon C = 13,5 France: Stephano A+, ToD B+, SarenS C+, Adelscott C+, MoMan C 11,5 Poland: Nerchio A, Mana A, Tarson B+, DieStar C, Paranoid C =10,5 Russia: BratOk B+, Happy B, Titan C, Pomi C, Abver C, LiveZerg C, HasHe C = 9,5 Netherlands: Ret A, Grubby B+, DaBoO C = 6,5 UK: DeMusliM A, BlinG C+, Pureball C = 5,5 Finland: Elfi B+, Welmu C+, Naama C+ ,Satiini C = 5,5 Australia: mOOnGlaDe B, Iaguz C+, tgun C = 4,5 Romania: Nightend B, Deathangel C+ = 3,5 Peru: Fenix B, CatZ C = 3 Serbia: Beastyqt B+ =2,5 Chile: KiLLeR B+ = 2,5 Italy: Cloud B = 2 Denmark: BabyKnight C, Ciara C = 2 Spain: Lucifron C+ = 1,5 Belarus: LoWeLy C+ = 1,5 Israel: Osho C+ =1,5 Norway: Snute = 1,5 Switzerland: biGs C = 1 Belgium: Orly C = 1 I'm sure I missed some players and keep in mind the ranking is very subjective . Also the ranking system itself doesn't necessarily provide the beste Sc2 nations besides Korea and China. Although I think it's quite safe to say it's Sweden no matter how you look at it HuK A+? He dropped out at the first round of one IEM, two Assemblys (lost both of his showmatches at the second), and did not reach ro8 in WCG or Dreamhack. People like Idra, Nerchio, MaNa, Kas, Thorzain seemed more dangerous lately and aren´t A+ and guys like Seiplo or titan, who where able to beat HuK are C? The C-rank seems a bit weird in general, Titan, Pomi or Happyzerg are much better than guys like Tyler, Mondragon, Icontrol, MoMan, Painuser. Also, if you add one of the last mentioned guys, you should add Underdark, BBQ/Ukrainestar, Delphi, rmdx, DBS, farmer, Honor, Tarra, Akkis as well. I think the idea of a ranking like this is good, but I would give away more points for the quality of players than for their quantity. I think I would rank the countries like this: Sweden Ukraine/China/Canada (assuming Huk is Canadian) Poland/USA (assuming SeleCT is korean, otherwise USA a bit ahead) Germany/France | ||
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BigLighthouse
United Kingdom424 Posts
On December 29 2011 02:45 discobaas wrote: Why would that be the sickest tournament lol, objectively it'd just be a poor man's gstl. It'd be awsome for the same reason the world cup is better than just watching the british premier league in football. People fucking love nation on nation action | ||
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mordk
Chile8385 Posts
On December 29 2011 02:40 Lewan72 wrote: I don't think tossing in random no-name pro-gamers should count. Remember its not all about quantity. Random no-name korean pro-gamers are a lot better than some of the players listed here. | ||
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Hardigan
Switzerland1297 Posts
On December 29 2011 02:42 GreEny K wrote: We would have to take ALL of the players that play SC2 in each country and then find the average skill level, and then do that for each country. Would be the only fair way. no, that's bs. What if country AAA has 200 more C-players then Country BBB? the average skill would be much lower for AAA, although they maybe have the better top 5 players | ||
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nath
United States1788 Posts
On December 29 2011 01:07 Malaz wrote: So lets do this with a point system. I know this doesn't make the whole thing any less subjective, but I'm bored right now I don't know the Chinese players well enough so I won't put them in the equation. A+: Top foreigner able to beat almost every top Korean in a Bo3 = 5 points A: Still one of the best foreigners, just a step away from A+ = 3 points B+: Player between A and B = 2,5 points B: Very strong player that can win online cups but no big lans = 2 points C+: Player between B and C = 1,5 points C: Players with great potential that haven't delivered results yet or players that used to be higher but are currently in a little slump = 1 point Sweden: Naniwa A+, SaSe A, ThorZain A, MorroW B+, SjoW B, Bischu B, hayprO B, Merz C+, Jinro C+, Seiplo C, Jimpo C, LaLush C, Naugrim C = 26,5 Canada: HuK A+, Kiwikaki B+, SLush B, TT1 C+, Drewbie C+, dde C, Ostojiy C = 14,5 USA: Idra A, Sheth B+, qxc C+, Gatored C+,Tyler C, Pokebunny C Machine C, iNcontroL C, KawaiiRice C, Painuser C = 14,5 Ukraine: White-Ra A, Dimaga A, Kas A, Strelok B+, Bly C+, HappyZerg C = 14 Germany HasuObs B+, Socke B+, GoOdy B+, TLO B, Darkforce C+, XlorD C+, Mondragon C = 13,5 France: Stephano A+, ToD B+, SarenS C+, Adelscott C+, MoMan C 11,5 Poland: Nerchio A, Mana A, Tarson B+, DieStar C, Paranoid C =10,5 Russia: BratOk B+, Happy B, Titan C, Pomi C, Abver C, LiveZerg C, HasHe C = 9,5 Netherlands: Ret A, Grubby B+, DaBoO C = 6,5 UK: DeMusliM A, BlinG C+, Pureball C = 5,5 Finland: Elfi B+, Welmu C+, Naama C+ ,Satiini C = 5,5 Australia: mOOnGlaDe B, Iaguz C+, tgun C = 4,5 Romania: Nightend B, Deathangel C+ = 3,5 Peru: Fenix B, CatZ C = 3 Serbia: Beastyqt B+ =2,5 Chile: KiLLeR B+ = 2,5 Italy: Cloud B = 2 Denmark: BabyKnight C, Ciara C = 2 Spain: Lucifron C+ = 1,5 Belarus: LoWeLy C+ = 1,5 Israel: Osho C+ =1,5 Norway: Snute = 1,5 Switzerland: biGs C = 1 Belgium: Orly C = 1 I'm sure I missed some players and keep in mind the ranking is very subjective . Also the ranking system itself doesn't necessarily provide the beste Sc2 nations besides Korea and China. Although I think it's quite safe to say it's Sweden no matter how you look at it your ranking system isn't too bad. i think one thing most would agree upon is that the C rank fucks shit up hardcore. A lot of the players you list at C i don't think should even be counted, or let alone equal to other C players (see NA's C's vs say, ukraine's C). i think ukraine should be above both usa and canada and a ranking system in which this doesn't happen, isn't accurate IMO. | ||
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stonetalon
Netherlands482 Posts
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Tidus Mino
United Kingdom1108 Posts
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CallousCarter
United Kingdom81 Posts
On December 29 2011 01:40 KinQuh wrote: Have they ever won anything? And no Select is not american. They don't have any big tournament wins. The point I was making is there's probably a lot of European players who aren't known as well because MLG gets the most attention out of the foreign tournaments and there's always top rated players going through the open bracket who they might snipe. On December 29 2011 01:40 GreEny K wrote: Why do people keep placing Pokebunny in the top of US... I seriously doubt he is. I would put State over him. Ye i put in State afterwards. | ||
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Veriol
Czech Republic502 Posts
Theres like no discussion srsly | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On December 29 2011 02:48 Hardigan wrote: no, that's bs. What if country AAA has 200 more C-players then Country BBB? the average skill would be much lower for AAA, although they maybe have the better top 5 players If you're looking for best overall skill, that is the only way to do it... You have to take everyone into account. If you want the best countries based on top 5, then it changes. But that's not what this thread is about. | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
naniwa, idra, huk and stephano are best foreigners imo so their respective countries should be placed highly. Ukraine is quite ok but their top players are just not as good as some other countries. White-ra, kas and dimaga are ok but not top level, I wouldn't rank any of them in top 10 foreigners. | ||
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Malhorn
United States148 Posts
IdrA, Sheth, HuK, Stephano, DeMusliM, PuMa. ez | ||
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sakhi20
Denmark42 Posts
On May 09 2011 04:27 Bergys wrote: + Show Spoiler + On May 09 2011 04:18 Grezzz wrote: Probably the US, not because it has the best players, but because it has the largest population of the sc2 playing nations. You have to consider that IdrA can probably take out any non-US player, and there's plenty of other decent-ish US players to back him up. In terms of player-skill per population, it's definately Sweden and Ukraine. Germany has to be fairly close after. What does population have to do with anything? It's not like it's going to be the 200 best players in each country competing, you'd have to choose the 7 best or something. The US pretty much only has idra (not counting select), and I'd say Naniwa, Jinro, Thorzain are at the very least on the same level. I'd go with Ukraine if it was a smaller tournament, like 4 players from each nation and sweden if it was 7ish. I have to go with this, Sweden has a slightly better overall lineup, but ukraine has some ridiculosly strong aces. Also, whats up with no one mentioning Sase for Sweden, that guy is beast! EDIT: On December 29 2011 03:05 Malhorn wrote: USA is easily the best; IdrA, Sheth, HuK, Stephano, DeMusliM, PuMa. ez Huk is Canadian, Stephano is French, DeMusliM is English, and Puma is Korean. Just because they play for EG, they don't suddenly count as Americans. | ||
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StyLeD
United States2965 Posts
On December 29 2011 03:03 GreEny K wrote: If you're looking for best overall skill, that is the only way to do it... You have to take everyone into account. If you want the best countries based on top 5, then it changes. But that's not what this thread is about. Uh, that is what this thread is about. Read the title again. Pro lineup = the best from each country. Top 5, Top 10, that's what the OP wants. Not some stupid cumulative average that sounds retarded in theory and is just as retarded in practice. | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On December 29 2011 03:03 Markwerf wrote: sweden best by far, then canada/usa and then france/germany/ukraine i think. naniwa, idra, huk and stephano are best foreigners imo so their respective countries should be placed highly. Ukraine is quite ok but their top players are just not as good as some other countries. White-ra, kas and dimaga are ok but not top level, I wouldn't rank any of them in top 10 foreigners. Uhhh, I definitely would. White-ra plays with extremely solid mechanics and has impeccable micro and great strategies. Kas has won games that I thought were completely hopeless with some of the best macro I have seen, and his unit control and kiting are amazing. Dimaga is a beast all around, I would definitely put them into the top 10. | ||
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