• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:52
CEST 16:52
KST 23:52
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League21Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.162Rollback Netcode in Brood War1205.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 202624Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)0
StarCraft 2
General
Server Blocker Terran AddOns placement SCII needs to put more weight on strategy and tact How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) $3,500 WardiTV Not-Summer Championship Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts
Brood War
General
Rollback Netcode in Brood War [Megathread] Daily Funny Videos [Recap] Hive ZvZ in MonstarZ vs Dreams [ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory! Bot on ladder
Tourneys
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League [ASL22] Grand Finals 2v2v2v2 Tournament Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Dawn of War IV Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread The Chess Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
MLB/Baseball 2023 Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The Link Between Gaming and …
TrAiDoS
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9156 users

Which Non-Korea Nation has the best pro lineup? - Page 30

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 28 29 30 31 32 48 Next All
red4ce
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States7313 Posts
December 28 2011 17:19 GMT
#581
On December 29 2011 01:07 Malaz wrote:
So lets do this with a point system. I know this doesn't make the whole thing any less subjective, but I'm bored right now I don't know the Chinese players well enough so I won't put them in the equation.

A+: Top foreigner able to beat almost every top Korean in a Bo3 = 5 points
A: Still one of the best foreigners, just a step away from A+ = 3 points
B+: Player between A and B = 2,5 points
B: Very strong player that can win online cups but no big lans = 2 points
C+: Player between B and C = 1,5 points
C: Players with great potential that haven't delivered results yet or players that used to be higher but are currently in a little slump = 1 point

Sweden: Naniwa A+, SaSe A, ThorZain A, MorroW B+, SjoW B, Bischu B, hayprO B, Merz C+, Jinro C+, Seiplo C, Jimpo C, LaLush C, Naugrim C = 26,5

Canada: HuK A+, Kiwikaki B+, SLush B, TT1 C+, Drewbie C+, dde C, Ostojiy C = 14,5

USA: Idra A, Sheth B+, qxc C+, Gatored C+,Tyler C, Pokebunny C Machine C, iNcontroL C, KawaiiRice C, Painuser C = 14,5

Ukraine: White-Ra A, Dimaga A, Kas A, Strelok B+, Bly C+, HappyZerg C = 14

Germany HasuObs B+, Socke B+, GoOdy B+, TLO B, Darkforce C+, XlorD C+, Mondragon C = 13,5

France: Stephano A+, ToD B+, SarenS C+, Adelscott C+, MoMan C 11,5

Poland: Nerchio A, Mana A, Tarson B+, DieStar C, Paranoid C =10,5

Russia: BratOk B+, Happy B, Titan C, Pomi C, Abver C, LiveZerg C, HasHe C = 9,5

Netherlands: Ret A, Grubby B+, DaBoO C = 6,5

UK: DeMusliM A, BlinG C+, Pureball C = 5,5

Finland: Elfi B+, Welmu C+, Naama C+ ,Satiini C = 5,5

Australia: mOOnGlaDe B, Iaguz C+, tgun C = 4,5

Romania: Nightend B, Deathangel C+ = 3,5

Peru: Fenix B, CatZ C = 3

Serbia: Beastyqt B+ =2,5

Chile: KiLLeR B+ = 2,5

Italy: Cloud B = 2

Denmark: BabyKnight C, Ciara C = 2

Spain: Lucifron C+ = 1,5

Belarus: LoWeLy C+ = 1,5

Israel: Osho C+ =1,5

Norway: Snute = 1,5

Switzerland: biGs C = 1

Belgium: Orly C = 1

I'm sure I missed some players and keep in mind the ranking is very subjective . Also the ranking system itself doesn't necessarily provide the beste Sc2 nations besides Korea and China. Although I think it's quite safe to say it's Sweden no matter how you look at it





I don't care for nitpicking your list but I am curious as to what South Korea's score would be under your system. Probably over 100.
hunts
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2113 Posts
December 28 2011 17:19 GMT
#582
On December 29 2011 02:15 halfies wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 29 2011 01:43 BlitzerSC wrote:
On December 29 2011 01:07 Malaz wrote:
So lets do this with a point system. I know this doesn't make the whole thing any less subjective, but I'm bored right now I don't know the Chinese players well enough so I won't put them in the equation.

A+: Top foreigner able to beat almost every top Korean in a Bo3 = 5 points
A: Still one of the best foreigners, just a step away from A+ = 3 points
B+: Player between A and B = 2,5 points
B: Very strong player that can win online cups but no big lans = 2 points
C+: Player between B and C = 1,5 points
C: Players with great potential that haven't delivered results yet or players that used to be higher but are currently in a little slump = 1 point

Sweden: Naniwa A+, SaSe A, ThorZain A, MorroW B+, SjoW B, Bischu B, hayprO B, Merz C+, Jinro C+, Seiplo C, Jimpo C, LaLush C, Naugrim C = 26,5

Canada: HuK A+, Kiwikaki B+, SLush B, TT1 C+, Drewbie C+, dde C, Ostojiy C = 14,5

USA: Idra A, Sheth B+, qxc C+, Gatored C+,Tyler C, Pokebunny C Machine C, iNcontroL C, KawaiiRice C, Painuser C = 14,5

Ukraine: White-Ra A, Dimaga A, Kas A, Strelok B+, Bly C+, HappyZerg C = 14

Germany HasuObs B+, Socke B+, GoOdy B+, TLO B, Darkforce C+, XlorD C+, Mondragon C = 13,5

France: Stephano A+, ToD B+, SarenS C+, Adelscott C+, MoMan C 11,5

Poland: Nerchio A, Mana A, Tarson B+, DieStar C, Paranoid C =10,5

Russia: BratOk B+, Happy B, Titan C, Pomi C, Abver C, LiveZerg C, HasHe C = 9,5

Netherlands: Ret A, Grubby B+, DaBoO C = 6,5

UK: DeMusliM A, BlinG C+, Pureball C = 5,5

Finland: Elfi B+, Welmu C+, Naama C+ ,Satiini C = 5,5

Australia: mOOnGlaDe B, Iaguz C+, tgun C = 4,5

Romania: Nightend B, Deathangel C+ = 3,5

Peru: Fenix B, CatZ C = 3

Serbia: Beastyqt B+ =2,5

Chile: KiLLeR B+ = 2,5

Italy: Cloud B = 2

Denmark: BabyKnight C, Ciara C = 2

Spain: Lucifron C+ = 1,5

Belarus: LoWeLy C+ = 1,5

Israel: Osho C+ =1,5

Norway: Snute = 1,5

Switzerland: biGs C = 1

Belgium: Orly C = 1

I'm sure I missed some players and keep in mind the ranking is very subjective . Also the ranking system itself doesn't necessarily provide the beste Sc2 nations besides Korea and China. Although I think it's quite safe to say it's Sweden no matter how you look at it





I don't understand how you gave those votes. I mean... are really TLO, Killer, Fenix, Sheth, Moonglade, Slush and Haypro at the same level ( or better ) as ClouD and Sjow ?
I don't know, for me they aren't ( Sjow and ClouD are better) but of course everyone has his own opinion.
Just wanted to point that out ^^

edit: Also i think that Darkforce is better than TLO, Killer, Fenix, Slush and Moonglade

edit2: BTW, i think that judging a player skill only with personal achievment is wrong. You need to go deeper ( looking at the opponents, when the games were played ) but it's impossible to do. It would take too much time ^^

thorzain must be A+, didnt he all kill QIM in the IPL TAC finals?


By that logic Idra would be A+ as well since he was and is again in code S while thorzain couldn't make it past 1 round of code A.
twitch.tv/huntstv 7x legend streamer
GreEny K
Profile Joined February 2008
Germany7312 Posts
December 28 2011 17:21 GMT
#583
On December 29 2011 02:19 hunts wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 29 2011 02:15 halfies wrote:
On December 29 2011 01:43 BlitzerSC wrote:
On December 29 2011 01:07 Malaz wrote:
So lets do this with a point system. I know this doesn't make the whole thing any less subjective, but I'm bored right now I don't know the Chinese players well enough so I won't put them in the equation.

A+: Top foreigner able to beat almost every top Korean in a Bo3 = 5 points
A: Still one of the best foreigners, just a step away from A+ = 3 points
B+: Player between A and B = 2,5 points
B: Very strong player that can win online cups but no big lans = 2 points
C+: Player between B and C = 1,5 points
C: Players with great potential that haven't delivered results yet or players that used to be higher but are currently in a little slump = 1 point

Sweden: Naniwa A+, SaSe A, ThorZain A, MorroW B+, SjoW B, Bischu B, hayprO B, Merz C+, Jinro C+, Seiplo C, Jimpo C, LaLush C, Naugrim C = 26,5

Canada: HuK A+, Kiwikaki B+, SLush B, TT1 C+, Drewbie C+, dde C, Ostojiy C = 14,5

USA: Idra A, Sheth B+, qxc C+, Gatored C+,Tyler C, Pokebunny C Machine C, iNcontroL C, KawaiiRice C, Painuser C = 14,5

Ukraine: White-Ra A, Dimaga A, Kas A, Strelok B+, Bly C+, HappyZerg C = 14

Germany HasuObs B+, Socke B+, GoOdy B+, TLO B, Darkforce C+, XlorD C+, Mondragon C = 13,5

France: Stephano A+, ToD B+, SarenS C+, Adelscott C+, MoMan C 11,5

Poland: Nerchio A, Mana A, Tarson B+, DieStar C, Paranoid C =10,5

Russia: BratOk B+, Happy B, Titan C, Pomi C, Abver C, LiveZerg C, HasHe C = 9,5

Netherlands: Ret A, Grubby B+, DaBoO C = 6,5

UK: DeMusliM A, BlinG C+, Pureball C = 5,5

Finland: Elfi B+, Welmu C+, Naama C+ ,Satiini C = 5,5

Australia: mOOnGlaDe B, Iaguz C+, tgun C = 4,5

Romania: Nightend B, Deathangel C+ = 3,5

Peru: Fenix B, CatZ C = 3

Serbia: Beastyqt B+ =2,5

Chile: KiLLeR B+ = 2,5

Italy: Cloud B = 2

Denmark: BabyKnight C, Ciara C = 2

Spain: Lucifron C+ = 1,5

Belarus: LoWeLy C+ = 1,5

Israel: Osho C+ =1,5

Norway: Snute = 1,5

Switzerland: biGs C = 1

Belgium: Orly C = 1

I'm sure I missed some players and keep in mind the ranking is very subjective . Also the ranking system itself doesn't necessarily provide the beste Sc2 nations besides Korea and China. Although I think it's quite safe to say it's Sweden no matter how you look at it





I don't understand how you gave those votes. I mean... are really TLO, Killer, Fenix, Sheth, Moonglade, Slush and Haypro at the same level ( or better ) as ClouD and Sjow ?
I don't know, for me they aren't ( Sjow and ClouD are better) but of course everyone has his own opinion.
Just wanted to point that out ^^

edit: Also i think that Darkforce is better than TLO, Killer, Fenix, Slush and Moonglade

edit2: BTW, i think that judging a player skill only with personal achievment is wrong. You need to go deeper ( looking at the opponents, when the games were played ) but it's impossible to do. It would take too much time ^^

thorzain must be A+, didnt he all kill QIM in the IPL TAC finals?


By that logic Idra would be A+ as well since he was and is again in code S while thorzain couldn't make it past 1 round of code A.


But Idra was offered the spot, Thorzain has to do it the hard way.
Why would you ever choose failure, when success is an option.
WightyCity
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada887 Posts
December 28 2011 17:21 GMT
#584
i say sweden but canada and usa close second
90% watching it 8% talking about it and 2% playing it - sc2
hunts
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2113 Posts
December 28 2011 17:23 GMT
#585
On December 29 2011 02:21 GreEny K wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 29 2011 02:19 hunts wrote:
On December 29 2011 02:15 halfies wrote:
On December 29 2011 01:43 BlitzerSC wrote:
On December 29 2011 01:07 Malaz wrote:
So lets do this with a point system. I know this doesn't make the whole thing any less subjective, but I'm bored right now I don't know the Chinese players well enough so I won't put them in the equation.

A+: Top foreigner able to beat almost every top Korean in a Bo3 = 5 points
A: Still one of the best foreigners, just a step away from A+ = 3 points
B+: Player between A and B = 2,5 points
B: Very strong player that can win online cups but no big lans = 2 points
C+: Player between B and C = 1,5 points
C: Players with great potential that haven't delivered results yet or players that used to be higher but are currently in a little slump = 1 point

Sweden: Naniwa A+, SaSe A, ThorZain A, MorroW B+, SjoW B, Bischu B, hayprO B, Merz C+, Jinro C+, Seiplo C, Jimpo C, LaLush C, Naugrim C = 26,5

Canada: HuK A+, Kiwikaki B+, SLush B, TT1 C+, Drewbie C+, dde C, Ostojiy C = 14,5

USA: Idra A, Sheth B+, qxc C+, Gatored C+,Tyler C, Pokebunny C Machine C, iNcontroL C, KawaiiRice C, Painuser C = 14,5

Ukraine: White-Ra A, Dimaga A, Kas A, Strelok B+, Bly C+, HappyZerg C = 14

Germany HasuObs B+, Socke B+, GoOdy B+, TLO B, Darkforce C+, XlorD C+, Mondragon C = 13,5

France: Stephano A+, ToD B+, SarenS C+, Adelscott C+, MoMan C 11,5

Poland: Nerchio A, Mana A, Tarson B+, DieStar C, Paranoid C =10,5

Russia: BratOk B+, Happy B, Titan C, Pomi C, Abver C, LiveZerg C, HasHe C = 9,5

Netherlands: Ret A, Grubby B+, DaBoO C = 6,5

UK: DeMusliM A, BlinG C+, Pureball C = 5,5

Finland: Elfi B+, Welmu C+, Naama C+ ,Satiini C = 5,5

Australia: mOOnGlaDe B, Iaguz C+, tgun C = 4,5

Romania: Nightend B, Deathangel C+ = 3,5

Peru: Fenix B, CatZ C = 3

Serbia: Beastyqt B+ =2,5

Chile: KiLLeR B+ = 2,5

Italy: Cloud B = 2

Denmark: BabyKnight C, Ciara C = 2

Spain: Lucifron C+ = 1,5

Belarus: LoWeLy C+ = 1,5

Israel: Osho C+ =1,5

Norway: Snute = 1,5

Switzerland: biGs C = 1

Belgium: Orly C = 1

I'm sure I missed some players and keep in mind the ranking is very subjective . Also the ranking system itself doesn't necessarily provide the beste Sc2 nations besides Korea and China. Although I think it's quite safe to say it's Sweden no matter how you look at it





I don't understand how you gave those votes. I mean... are really TLO, Killer, Fenix, Sheth, Moonglade, Slush and Haypro at the same level ( or better ) as ClouD and Sjow ?
I don't know, for me they aren't ( Sjow and ClouD are better) but of course everyone has his own opinion.
Just wanted to point that out ^^

edit: Also i think that Darkforce is better than TLO, Killer, Fenix, Slush and Moonglade

edit2: BTW, i think that judging a player skill only with personal achievment is wrong. You need to go deeper ( looking at the opponents, when the games were played ) but it's impossible to do. It would take too much time ^^

thorzain must be A+, didnt he all kill QIM in the IPL TAC finals?


By that logic Idra would be A+ as well since he was and is again in code S while thorzain couldn't make it past 1 round of code A.


But Idra was offered the spot, Thorzain has to do it the hard way.


Idra originally got into code S the normal way and he never dropped out of code S before he left though. And by that token, thorzain was offered his code A spot that he lost in 1 round, he didn't go thru code B which is the hard way.
twitch.tv/huntstv 7x legend streamer
Bagi
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6799 Posts
December 28 2011 17:28 GMT
#586
On December 29 2011 02:19 hunts wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 29 2011 02:15 halfies wrote:
On December 29 2011 01:43 BlitzerSC wrote:
On December 29 2011 01:07 Malaz wrote:
So lets do this with a point system. I know this doesn't make the whole thing any less subjective, but I'm bored right now I don't know the Chinese players well enough so I won't put them in the equation.

A+: Top foreigner able to beat almost every top Korean in a Bo3 = 5 points
A: Still one of the best foreigners, just a step away from A+ = 3 points
B+: Player between A and B = 2,5 points
B: Very strong player that can win online cups but no big lans = 2 points
C+: Player between B and C = 1,5 points
C: Players with great potential that haven't delivered results yet or players that used to be higher but are currently in a little slump = 1 point

Sweden: Naniwa A+, SaSe A, ThorZain A, MorroW B+, SjoW B, Bischu B, hayprO B, Merz C+, Jinro C+, Seiplo C, Jimpo C, LaLush C, Naugrim C = 26,5

Canada: HuK A+, Kiwikaki B+, SLush B, TT1 C+, Drewbie C+, dde C, Ostojiy C = 14,5

USA: Idra A, Sheth B+, qxc C+, Gatored C+,Tyler C, Pokebunny C Machine C, iNcontroL C, KawaiiRice C, Painuser C = 14,5

Ukraine: White-Ra A, Dimaga A, Kas A, Strelok B+, Bly C+, HappyZerg C = 14

Germany HasuObs B+, Socke B+, GoOdy B+, TLO B, Darkforce C+, XlorD C+, Mondragon C = 13,5

France: Stephano A+, ToD B+, SarenS C+, Adelscott C+, MoMan C 11,5

Poland: Nerchio A, Mana A, Tarson B+, DieStar C, Paranoid C =10,5

Russia: BratOk B+, Happy B, Titan C, Pomi C, Abver C, LiveZerg C, HasHe C = 9,5

Netherlands: Ret A, Grubby B+, DaBoO C = 6,5

UK: DeMusliM A, BlinG C+, Pureball C = 5,5

Finland: Elfi B+, Welmu C+, Naama C+ ,Satiini C = 5,5

Australia: mOOnGlaDe B, Iaguz C+, tgun C = 4,5

Romania: Nightend B, Deathangel C+ = 3,5

Peru: Fenix B, CatZ C = 3

Serbia: Beastyqt B+ =2,5

Chile: KiLLeR B+ = 2,5

Italy: Cloud B = 2

Denmark: BabyKnight C, Ciara C = 2

Spain: Lucifron C+ = 1,5

Belarus: LoWeLy C+ = 1,5

Israel: Osho C+ =1,5

Norway: Snute = 1,5

Switzerland: biGs C = 1

Belgium: Orly C = 1

I'm sure I missed some players and keep in mind the ranking is very subjective . Also the ranking system itself doesn't necessarily provide the beste Sc2 nations besides Korea and China. Although I think it's quite safe to say it's Sweden no matter how you look at it





I don't understand how you gave those votes. I mean... are really TLO, Killer, Fenix, Sheth, Moonglade, Slush and Haypro at the same level ( or better ) as ClouD and Sjow ?
I don't know, for me they aren't ( Sjow and ClouD are better) but of course everyone has his own opinion.
Just wanted to point that out ^^

edit: Also i think that Darkforce is better than TLO, Killer, Fenix, Slush and Moonglade

edit2: BTW, i think that judging a player skill only with personal achievment is wrong. You need to go deeper ( looking at the opponents, when the games were played ) but it's impossible to do. It would take too much time ^^

thorzain must be A+, didnt he all kill QIM in the IPL TAC finals?


By that logic Idra would be A+ as well since he was and is again in code S while thorzain couldn't make it past 1 round of code A.

Idras code S spot is a relic from a year ago, it has literally no meaning in the power of today and Idra has yet to prove himself again in Korea.

Or do you think Jinro is the best foreigner still because of what happened a year ago?
Culture
Profile Joined October 2007
Canada488 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-28 17:30:40
December 28 2011 17:28 GMT
#587
I think it's a toss up between sweden and ukraine for best, it just depends on how well the more streaky players like thorzain/kas play.

Also, taking more than top 5 players from each country, unless the country has more than 5 A class players is just like reaching into the unknown to fish out semi popular names. We're talking about the heavy hitters. Would a country with 400 C class players really be #1?
Elem
Profile Joined April 2011
Sweden4717 Posts
December 28 2011 17:32 GMT
#588
Still easily Sweden or Ukraine.

Probably Sweden though, more depth in their lineup.
#freeshauni
Grovbolle
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Denmark3819 Posts
December 28 2011 17:33 GMT
#589
On December 29 2011 00:18 KinQuh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 29 2011 00:09 Grovbolle wrote:
On December 29 2011 00:07 KinQuh wrote:
On December 28 2011 23:40 plouer wrote:
OMG

you can't put incontrol a in a list of great player like stephano or Idra

he is a important member of the community but that's all

american have some good player like idra and sheth, very nice streamer like destiny, but many of them are really overated
Incontrol is one of the best exemple.

and for the top 10 i would put netherland higher with grubby and ret who both play really really good

You put netherlands but you dont mention RotterdaM


RotterdaM is not a pro player, he is a good caster and a pretty good player, but he is not a pro (like he was back in WC3)

Rotti is a masters player even though he cant play as much as he would like!


As mentioned, there are a lot of master players.
I am not saying Rotti is a bad player (how would I know), I just said he isn't a pro either. He makes his money casting the game, not playing it, there in lies the difference.. ( I <3 Rotti's casting, but he is not a professional gamer anymore, he is good though)
Lies, damned lies and statistics: http://aligulac.com
GWBuffalo
Profile Joined January 2011
United States234 Posts
December 28 2011 17:34 GMT
#590
On December 29 2011 01:21 Klyberess wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 29 2011 01:16 Tryxtira wrote:
I don't really agree with putting Ukraine as high up as many do. Dimaga is an amazing player but Kas/White-ra isn't really up there at the top.

I am obviously bias, but I feel Sweden is definitely second to Korea. However I'd say the second best nation is the US. IdrA/HuK/Sheth can take games off anyone in the world.

Isn't HuK canadian?


I think he was born and raised in Florida... then moved to Canada at about 15 or 16, iirc.
GreEny K
Profile Joined February 2008
Germany7312 Posts
December 28 2011 17:35 GMT
#591
On December 29 2011 02:23 hunts wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 29 2011 02:21 GreEny K wrote:
On December 29 2011 02:19 hunts wrote:
On December 29 2011 02:15 halfies wrote:
On December 29 2011 01:43 BlitzerSC wrote:
On December 29 2011 01:07 Malaz wrote:
So lets do this with a point system. I know this doesn't make the whole thing any less subjective, but I'm bored right now I don't know the Chinese players well enough so I won't put them in the equation.

A+: Top foreigner able to beat almost every top Korean in a Bo3 = 5 points
A: Still one of the best foreigners, just a step away from A+ = 3 points
B+: Player between A and B = 2,5 points
B: Very strong player that can win online cups but no big lans = 2 points
C+: Player between B and C = 1,5 points
C: Players with great potential that haven't delivered results yet or players that used to be higher but are currently in a little slump = 1 point

Sweden: Naniwa A+, SaSe A, ThorZain A, MorroW B+, SjoW B, Bischu B, hayprO B, Merz C+, Jinro C+, Seiplo C, Jimpo C, LaLush C, Naugrim C = 26,5

Canada: HuK A+, Kiwikaki B+, SLush B, TT1 C+, Drewbie C+, dde C, Ostojiy C = 14,5

USA: Idra A, Sheth B+, qxc C+, Gatored C+,Tyler C, Pokebunny C Machine C, iNcontroL C, KawaiiRice C, Painuser C = 14,5

Ukraine: White-Ra A, Dimaga A, Kas A, Strelok B+, Bly C+, HappyZerg C = 14

Germany HasuObs B+, Socke B+, GoOdy B+, TLO B, Darkforce C+, XlorD C+, Mondragon C = 13,5

France: Stephano A+, ToD B+, SarenS C+, Adelscott C+, MoMan C 11,5

Poland: Nerchio A, Mana A, Tarson B+, DieStar C, Paranoid C =10,5

Russia: BratOk B+, Happy B, Titan C, Pomi C, Abver C, LiveZerg C, HasHe C = 9,5

Netherlands: Ret A, Grubby B+, DaBoO C = 6,5

UK: DeMusliM A, BlinG C+, Pureball C = 5,5

Finland: Elfi B+, Welmu C+, Naama C+ ,Satiini C = 5,5

Australia: mOOnGlaDe B, Iaguz C+, tgun C = 4,5

Romania: Nightend B, Deathangel C+ = 3,5

Peru: Fenix B, CatZ C = 3

Serbia: Beastyqt B+ =2,5

Chile: KiLLeR B+ = 2,5

Italy: Cloud B = 2

Denmark: BabyKnight C, Ciara C = 2

Spain: Lucifron C+ = 1,5

Belarus: LoWeLy C+ = 1,5

Israel: Osho C+ =1,5

Norway: Snute = 1,5

Switzerland: biGs C = 1

Belgium: Orly C = 1

I'm sure I missed some players and keep in mind the ranking is very subjective . Also the ranking system itself doesn't necessarily provide the beste Sc2 nations besides Korea and China. Although I think it's quite safe to say it's Sweden no matter how you look at it





I don't understand how you gave those votes. I mean... are really TLO, Killer, Fenix, Sheth, Moonglade, Slush and Haypro at the same level ( or better ) as ClouD and Sjow ?
I don't know, for me they aren't ( Sjow and ClouD are better) but of course everyone has his own opinion.
Just wanted to point that out ^^

edit: Also i think that Darkforce is better than TLO, Killer, Fenix, Slush and Moonglade

edit2: BTW, i think that judging a player skill only with personal achievment is wrong. You need to go deeper ( looking at the opponents, when the games were played ) but it's impossible to do. It would take too much time ^^

thorzain must be A+, didnt he all kill QIM in the IPL TAC finals?


By that logic Idra would be A+ as well since he was and is again in code S while thorzain couldn't make it past 1 round of code A.


But Idra was offered the spot, Thorzain has to do it the hard way.


Idra originally got into code S the normal way and he never dropped out of code S before he left though. And by that token, thorzain was offered his code A spot that he lost in 1 round, he didn't go thru code B which is the hard way.


Good point, but I still think that it was easier to get into code S when IdrA did it, the game has developed a lot more since then and IdrA has been in the US for a while so he has missed out on some Korean training. I don't think he will make it far, or keep his stop for long.
Why would you ever choose failure, when success is an option.
AsnSensation
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany24009 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-28 17:37:07
December 28 2011 17:36 GMT
#592
+ Show Spoiler +

On December 29 2011 01:07 Malaz wrote:
So lets do this with a point system. I know this doesn't make the whole thing any less subjective, but I'm bored right now I don't know the Chinese players well enough so I won't put them in the equation.

A+: Top foreigner able to beat almost every top Korean in a Bo3 = 5 points
A: Still one of the best foreigners, just a step away from A+ = 3 points
B+: Player between A and B = 2,5 points
B: Very strong player that can win online cups but no big lans = 2 points
C+: Player between B and C = 1,5 points
C: Players with great potential that haven't delivered results yet or players that used to be higher but are currently in a little slump = 1 point

Sweden: Naniwa A+, SaSe A, ThorZain A, MorroW B+, SjoW B, Bischu B, hayprO B, Merz C+, Jinro C+, Seiplo C, Jimpo C, LaLush C, Naugrim C = 26,5

Canada: HuK A+, Kiwikaki B+, SLush B, TT1 C+, Drewbie C+, dde C, Ostojiy C = 14,5

USA: Idra A, Sheth B+, qxc C+, Gatored C+,Tyler C, Pokebunny C Machine C, iNcontroL C, KawaiiRice C, Painuser C = 14,5

Ukraine: White-Ra A, Dimaga A, Kas A, Strelok B+, Bly C+, HappyZerg C = 14

Germany HasuObs B+, Socke B+, GoOdy B+, TLO B, Darkforce C+, XlorD C+, Mondragon C = 13,5

France: Stephano A+, ToD B+, SarenS C+, Adelscott C+, MoMan C 11,5

Poland: Nerchio A, Mana A, Tarson B+, DieStar C, Paranoid C =10,5

Russia: BratOk B+, Happy B, Titan C, Pomi C, Abver C, LiveZerg C, HasHe C = 9,5

Netherlands: Ret A, Grubby B+, DaBoO C = 6,5

UK: DeMusliM A, BlinG C+, Pureball C = 5,5

Finland: Elfi B+, Welmu C+, Naama C+ ,Satiini C = 5,5

Australia: mOOnGlaDe B, Iaguz C+, tgun C = 4,5

Romania: Nightend B, Deathangel C+ = 3,5

Peru: Fenix B, CatZ C = 3

Serbia: Beastyqt B+ =2,5

Chile: KiLLeR B+ = 2,5

Italy: Cloud B = 2

Denmark: BabyKnight C, Ciara C = 2

Spain: Lucifron C+ = 1,5

Belarus: LoWeLy C+ = 1,5

Israel: Osho C+ =1,5

Norway: Snute = 1,5

Switzerland: biGs C = 1

Belgium: Orly C = 1

I'm sure I missed some players and keep in mind the ranking is very subjective . Also the ranking system itself doesn't necessarily provide the beste Sc2 nations besides Korea and China. Although I think it's quite safe to say it's Sweden no matter how you look at it







I dont even know what to say about that list. First it's not objective at all and second it's totally flawed. I think such a system is useless in the first place anyway

I personally think it's:

SK->Sweden,Ukraine->Poland,Germany+NA if we count USA+Canada as one team which includes both Huk and Idra
GreEny K
Profile Joined February 2008
Germany7312 Posts
December 28 2011 17:37 GMT
#593
On December 29 2011 02:36 AsnSensation wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

On December 29 2011 01:07 Malaz wrote:
So lets do this with a point system. I know this doesn't make the whole thing any less subjective, but I'm bored right now I don't know the Chinese players well enough so I won't put them in the equation.

A+: Top foreigner able to beat almost every top Korean in a Bo3 = 5 points
A: Still one of the best foreigners, just a step away from A+ = 3 points
B+: Player between A and B = 2,5 points
B: Very strong player that can win online cups but no big lans = 2 points
C+: Player between B and C = 1,5 points
C: Players with great potential that haven't delivered results yet or players that used to be higher but are currently in a little slump = 1 point

Sweden: Naniwa A+, SaSe A, ThorZain A, MorroW B+, SjoW B, Bischu B, hayprO B, Merz C+, Jinro C+, Seiplo C, Jimpo C, LaLush C, Naugrim C = 26,5

Canada: HuK A+, Kiwikaki B+, SLush B, TT1 C+, Drewbie C+, dde C, Ostojiy C = 14,5

USA: Idra A, Sheth B+, qxc C+, Gatored C+,Tyler C, Pokebunny C Machine C, iNcontroL C, KawaiiRice C, Painuser C = 14,5

Ukraine: White-Ra A, Dimaga A, Kas A, Strelok B+, Bly C+, HappyZerg C = 14

Germany HasuObs B+, Socke B+, GoOdy B+, TLO B, Darkforce C+, XlorD C+, Mondragon C = 13,5

France: Stephano A+, ToD B+, SarenS C+, Adelscott C+, MoMan C 11,5

Poland: Nerchio A, Mana A, Tarson B+, DieStar C, Paranoid C =10,5

Russia: BratOk B+, Happy B, Titan C, Pomi C, Abver C, LiveZerg C, HasHe C = 9,5

Netherlands: Ret A, Grubby B+, DaBoO C = 6,5

UK: DeMusliM A, BlinG C+, Pureball C = 5,5

Finland: Elfi B+, Welmu C+, Naama C+ ,Satiini C = 5,5

Australia: mOOnGlaDe B, Iaguz C+, tgun C = 4,5

Romania: Nightend B, Deathangel C+ = 3,5

Peru: Fenix B, CatZ C = 3

Serbia: Beastyqt B+ =2,5

Chile: KiLLeR B+ = 2,5

Italy: Cloud B = 2

Denmark: BabyKnight C, Ciara C = 2

Spain: Lucifron C+ = 1,5

Belarus: LoWeLy C+ = 1,5

Israel: Osho C+ =1,5

Norway: Snute = 1,5

Switzerland: biGs C = 1

Belgium: Orly C = 1

I'm sure I missed some players and keep in mind the ranking is very subjective . Also the ranking system itself doesn't necessarily provide the beste Sc2 nations besides Korea and China. Although I think it's quite safe to say it's Sweden no matter how you look at it







I dont even know what to say about that list. First it's not objective at all and second it's totally flawed. I think such a system is useless in the first place anyway

I personally think it's:

SK->Sweden,Ukraine->Poland,Germany


I'd agree with that ranking. Of course we would have to see a lot more of Chine to know where to throw them in, but I have a feeling they would be right behind SK.
Why would you ever choose failure, when success is an option.
KinQuh
Profile Joined February 2011
Finland810 Posts
December 28 2011 17:37 GMT
#594
On December 29 2011 02:33 Grovbolle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 29 2011 00:18 KinQuh wrote:
On December 29 2011 00:09 Grovbolle wrote:
On December 29 2011 00:07 KinQuh wrote:
On December 28 2011 23:40 plouer wrote:
OMG

you can't put incontrol a in a list of great player like stephano or Idra

he is a important member of the community but that's all

american have some good player like idra and sheth, very nice streamer like destiny, but many of them are really overated
Incontrol is one of the best exemple.

and for the top 10 i would put netherland higher with grubby and ret who both play really really good

You put netherlands but you dont mention RotterdaM


RotterdaM is not a pro player, he is a good caster and a pretty good player, but he is not a pro (like he was back in WC3)

Rotti is a masters player even though he cant play as much as he would like!


As mentioned, there are a lot of master players.
I am not saying Rotti is a bad player (how would I know), I just said he isn't a pro either. He makes his money casting the game, not playing it, there in lies the difference.. ( I <3 Rotti's casting, but he is not a professional gamer anymore, he is good though)

Dont mind that im just a Rotti fanboy :3
Holy check.
Kluey
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada1197 Posts
December 28 2011 17:38 GMT
#595
On December 29 2011 02:23 hunts wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 29 2011 02:21 GreEny K wrote:
On December 29 2011 02:19 hunts wrote:
On December 29 2011 02:15 halfies wrote:
On December 29 2011 01:43 BlitzerSC wrote:
On December 29 2011 01:07 Malaz wrote:
So lets do this with a point system. I know this doesn't make the whole thing any less subjective, but I'm bored right now I don't know the Chinese players well enough so I won't put them in the equation.

A+: Top foreigner able to beat almost every top Korean in a Bo3 = 5 points
A: Still one of the best foreigners, just a step away from A+ = 3 points
B+: Player between A and B = 2,5 points
B: Very strong player that can win online cups but no big lans = 2 points
C+: Player between B and C = 1,5 points
C: Players with great potential that haven't delivered results yet or players that used to be higher but are currently in a little slump = 1 point

Sweden: Naniwa A+, SaSe A, ThorZain A, MorroW B+, SjoW B, Bischu B, hayprO B, Merz C+, Jinro C+, Seiplo C, Jimpo C, LaLush C, Naugrim C = 26,5

Canada: HuK A+, Kiwikaki B+, SLush B, TT1 C+, Drewbie C+, dde C, Ostojiy C = 14,5

USA: Idra A, Sheth B+, qxc C+, Gatored C+,Tyler C, Pokebunny C Machine C, iNcontroL C, KawaiiRice C, Painuser C = 14,5

Ukraine: White-Ra A, Dimaga A, Kas A, Strelok B+, Bly C+, HappyZerg C = 14

Germany HasuObs B+, Socke B+, GoOdy B+, TLO B, Darkforce C+, XlorD C+, Mondragon C = 13,5

France: Stephano A+, ToD B+, SarenS C+, Adelscott C+, MoMan C 11,5

Poland: Nerchio A, Mana A, Tarson B+, DieStar C, Paranoid C =10,5

Russia: BratOk B+, Happy B, Titan C, Pomi C, Abver C, LiveZerg C, HasHe C = 9,5

Netherlands: Ret A, Grubby B+, DaBoO C = 6,5

UK: DeMusliM A, BlinG C+, Pureball C = 5,5

Finland: Elfi B+, Welmu C+, Naama C+ ,Satiini C = 5,5

Australia: mOOnGlaDe B, Iaguz C+, tgun C = 4,5

Romania: Nightend B, Deathangel C+ = 3,5

Peru: Fenix B, CatZ C = 3

Serbia: Beastyqt B+ =2,5

Chile: KiLLeR B+ = 2,5

Italy: Cloud B = 2

Denmark: BabyKnight C, Ciara C = 2

Spain: Lucifron C+ = 1,5

Belarus: LoWeLy C+ = 1,5

Israel: Osho C+ =1,5

Norway: Snute = 1,5

Switzerland: biGs C = 1

Belgium: Orly C = 1

I'm sure I missed some players and keep in mind the ranking is very subjective . Also the ranking system itself doesn't necessarily provide the beste Sc2 nations besides Korea and China. Although I think it's quite safe to say it's Sweden no matter how you look at it





I don't understand how you gave those votes. I mean... are really TLO, Killer, Fenix, Sheth, Moonglade, Slush and Haypro at the same level ( or better ) as ClouD and Sjow ?
I don't know, for me they aren't ( Sjow and ClouD are better) but of course everyone has his own opinion.
Just wanted to point that out ^^

edit: Also i think that Darkforce is better than TLO, Killer, Fenix, Slush and Moonglade

edit2: BTW, i think that judging a player skill only with personal achievment is wrong. You need to go deeper ( looking at the opponents, when the games were played ) but it's impossible to do. It would take too much time ^^

thorzain must be A+, didnt he all kill QIM in the IPL TAC finals?


By that logic Idra would be A+ as well since he was and is again in code S while thorzain couldn't make it past 1 round of code A.


But Idra was offered the spot, Thorzain has to do it the hard way.


Idra originally got into code S the normal way and he never dropped out of code S before he left though. And by that token, thorzain was offered his code A spot that he lost in 1 round, he didn't go thru code B which is the hard way.


Code S then and Code S now a so extremely different. Code B might be closer to the Code S of that time.
GreEny K
Profile Joined February 2008
Germany7312 Posts
December 28 2011 17:39 GMT
#596
On December 29 2011 02:36 AsnSensation wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

On December 29 2011 01:07 Malaz wrote:
So lets do this with a point system. I know this doesn't make the whole thing any less subjective, but I'm bored right now I don't know the Chinese players well enough so I won't put them in the equation.

A+: Top foreigner able to beat almost every top Korean in a Bo3 = 5 points
A: Still one of the best foreigners, just a step away from A+ = 3 points
B+: Player between A and B = 2,5 points
B: Very strong player that can win online cups but no big lans = 2 points
C+: Player between B and C = 1,5 points
C: Players with great potential that haven't delivered results yet or players that used to be higher but are currently in a little slump = 1 point

Sweden: Naniwa A+, SaSe A, ThorZain A, MorroW B+, SjoW B, Bischu B, hayprO B, Merz C+, Jinro C+, Seiplo C, Jimpo C, LaLush C, Naugrim C = 26,5

Canada: HuK A+, Kiwikaki B+, SLush B, TT1 C+, Drewbie C+, dde C, Ostojiy C = 14,5

USA: Idra A, Sheth B+, qxc C+, Gatored C+,Tyler C, Pokebunny C Machine C, iNcontroL C, KawaiiRice C, Painuser C = 14,5

Ukraine: White-Ra A, Dimaga A, Kas A, Strelok B+, Bly C+, HappyZerg C = 14

Germany HasuObs B+, Socke B+, GoOdy B+, TLO B, Darkforce C+, XlorD C+, Mondragon C = 13,5

France: Stephano A+, ToD B+, SarenS C+, Adelscott C+, MoMan C 11,5

Poland: Nerchio A, Mana A, Tarson B+, DieStar C, Paranoid C =10,5

Russia: BratOk B+, Happy B, Titan C, Pomi C, Abver C, LiveZerg C, HasHe C = 9,5

Netherlands: Ret A, Grubby B+, DaBoO C = 6,5

UK: DeMusliM A, BlinG C+, Pureball C = 5,5

Finland: Elfi B+, Welmu C+, Naama C+ ,Satiini C = 5,5

Australia: mOOnGlaDe B, Iaguz C+, tgun C = 4,5

Romania: Nightend B, Deathangel C+ = 3,5

Peru: Fenix B, CatZ C = 3

Serbia: Beastyqt B+ =2,5

Chile: KiLLeR B+ = 2,5

Italy: Cloud B = 2

Denmark: BabyKnight C, Ciara C = 2

Spain: Lucifron C+ = 1,5

Belarus: LoWeLy C+ = 1,5

Israel: Osho C+ =1,5

Norway: Snute = 1,5

Switzerland: biGs C = 1

Belgium: Orly C = 1

I'm sure I missed some players and keep in mind the ranking is very subjective . Also the ranking system itself doesn't necessarily provide the beste Sc2 nations besides Korea and China. Although I think it's quite safe to say it's Sweden no matter how you look at it







I dont even know what to say about that list. First it's not objective at all and second it's totally flawed. I think such a system is useless in the first place anyway

I personally think it's:

SK->Sweden,Ukraine->Poland,Germany+NA if we count USA+Canada as one team which includes both Huk and Idra


I would not count them as one, I don't see a reason to. Two separate countries.
Why would you ever choose failure, when success is an option.
THM
Profile Joined November 2010
Bulgaria1131 Posts
December 28 2011 17:40 GMT
#597
On December 29 2011 02:19 red4ce wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 29 2011 01:07 Malaz wrote:
So lets do this with a point system. I know this doesn't make the whole thing any less subjective, but I'm bored right now I don't know the Chinese players well enough so I won't put them in the equation.

A+: Top foreigner able to beat almost every top Korean in a Bo3 = 5 points
A: Still one of the best foreigners, just a step away from A+ = 3 points
B+: Player between A and B = 2,5 points
B: Very strong player that can win online cups but no big lans = 2 points
C+: Player between B and C = 1,5 points
C: Players with great potential that haven't delivered results yet or players that used to be higher but are currently in a little slump = 1 point

Sweden: Naniwa A+, SaSe A, ThorZain A, MorroW B+, SjoW B, Bischu B, hayprO B, Merz C+, Jinro C+, Seiplo C, Jimpo C, LaLush C, Naugrim C = 26,5

Canada: HuK A+, Kiwikaki B+, SLush B, TT1 C+, Drewbie C+, dde C, Ostojiy C = 14,5

USA: Idra A, Sheth B+, qxc C+, Gatored C+,Tyler C, Pokebunny C Machine C, iNcontroL C, KawaiiRice C, Painuser C = 14,5

Ukraine: White-Ra A, Dimaga A, Kas A, Strelok B+, Bly C+, HappyZerg C = 14

Germany HasuObs B+, Socke B+, GoOdy B+, TLO B, Darkforce C+, XlorD C+, Mondragon C = 13,5

France: Stephano A+, ToD B+, SarenS C+, Adelscott C+, MoMan C 11,5

Poland: Nerchio A, Mana A, Tarson B+, DieStar C, Paranoid C =10,5

Russia: BratOk B+, Happy B, Titan C, Pomi C, Abver C, LiveZerg C, HasHe C = 9,5

Netherlands: Ret A, Grubby B+, DaBoO C = 6,5

UK: DeMusliM A, BlinG C+, Pureball C = 5,5

Finland: Elfi B+, Welmu C+, Naama C+ ,Satiini C = 5,5

Australia: mOOnGlaDe B, Iaguz C+, tgun C = 4,5

Romania: Nightend B, Deathangel C+ = 3,5

Peru: Fenix B, CatZ C = 3

Serbia: Beastyqt B+ =2,5

Chile: KiLLeR B+ = 2,5

Italy: Cloud B = 2

Denmark: BabyKnight C, Ciara C = 2

Spain: Lucifron C+ = 1,5

Belarus: LoWeLy C+ = 1,5

Israel: Osho C+ =1,5

Norway: Snute = 1,5

Switzerland: biGs C = 1

Belgium: Orly C = 1

I'm sure I missed some players and keep in mind the ranking is very subjective . Also the ranking system itself doesn't necessarily provide the beste Sc2 nations besides Korea and China. Although I think it's quite safe to say it's Sweden no matter how you look at it





I don't care for nitpicking your list but I am curious as to what South Korea's score would be under your system. Probably over 100.


Yeah, I'd like to see the Korean score as well, that would be fun

Also, I like the list a lot, I think it's very accurate.
Lewan72
Profile Joined April 2011
United States381 Posts
December 28 2011 17:40 GMT
#598
On December 29 2011 02:19 red4ce wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 29 2011 01:07 Malaz wrote:
So lets do this with a point system. I know this doesn't make the whole thing any less subjective, but I'm bored right now I don't know the Chinese players well enough so I won't put them in the equation.

A+: Top foreigner able to beat almost every top Korean in a Bo3 = 5 points
A: Still one of the best foreigners, just a step away from A+ = 3 points
B+: Player between A and B = 2,5 points
B: Very strong player that can win online cups but no big lans = 2 points
C+: Player between B and C = 1,5 points
C: Players with great potential that haven't delivered results yet or players that used to be higher but are currently in a little slump = 1 point

Sweden: Naniwa A+, SaSe A, ThorZain A, MorroW B+, SjoW B, Bischu B, hayprO B, Merz C+, Jinro C+, Seiplo C, Jimpo C, LaLush C, Naugrim C = 26,5

Canada: HuK A+, Kiwikaki B+, SLush B, TT1 C+, Drewbie C+, dde C, Ostojiy C = 14,5

USA: Idra A, Sheth B+, qxc C+, Gatored C+,Tyler C, Pokebunny C Machine C, iNcontroL C, KawaiiRice C, Painuser C = 14,5

Ukraine: White-Ra A, Dimaga A, Kas A, Strelok B+, Bly C+, HappyZerg C = 14

Germany HasuObs B+, Socke B+, GoOdy B+, TLO B, Darkforce C+, XlorD C+, Mondragon C = 13,5

France: Stephano A+, ToD B+, SarenS C+, Adelscott C+, MoMan C 11,5

Poland: Nerchio A, Mana A, Tarson B+, DieStar C, Paranoid C =10,5

Russia: BratOk B+, Happy B, Titan C, Pomi C, Abver C, LiveZerg C, HasHe C = 9,5

Netherlands: Ret A, Grubby B+, DaBoO C = 6,5

UK: DeMusliM A, BlinG C+, Pureball C = 5,5

Finland: Elfi B+, Welmu C+, Naama C+ ,Satiini C = 5,5

Australia: mOOnGlaDe B, Iaguz C+, tgun C = 4,5

Romania: Nightend B, Deathangel C+ = 3,5

Peru: Fenix B, CatZ C = 3

Serbia: Beastyqt B+ =2,5

Chile: KiLLeR B+ = 2,5

Italy: Cloud B = 2

Denmark: BabyKnight C, Ciara C = 2

Spain: Lucifron C+ = 1,5

Belarus: LoWeLy C+ = 1,5

Israel: Osho C+ =1,5

Norway: Snute = 1,5

Switzerland: biGs C = 1

Belgium: Orly C = 1

I'm sure I missed some players and keep in mind the ranking is very subjective . Also the ranking system itself doesn't necessarily provide the beste Sc2 nations besides Korea and China. Although I think it's quite safe to say it's Sweden no matter how you look at it





I don't care for nitpicking your list but I am curious as to what South Korea's score would be under your system. Probably over 100.


I don't think tossing in random no-name pro-gamers should count. Remember its not all about quantity.
MC / Hero / MMA / Bomber / Coca / Suppy
Durp
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada3117 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-28 17:44:11
December 28 2011 17:41 GMT
#599
On December 29 2011 02:19 red4ce wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 29 2011 01:07 Malaz wrote:
So lets do this with a point system. I know this doesn't make the whole thing any less subjective, but I'm bored right now I don't know the Chinese players well enough so I won't put them in the equation.

A+: Top foreigner able to beat almost every top Korean in a Bo3 = 5 points
A: Still one of the best foreigners, just a step away from A+ = 3 points
B+: Player between A and B = 2,5 points
B: Very strong player that can win online cups but no big lans = 2 points
C+: Player between B and C = 1,5 points
C: Players with great potential that haven't delivered results yet or players that used to be higher but are currently in a little slump = 1 point

Sweden: Naniwa A+, SaSe A, ThorZain A, MorroW B+, SjoW B, Bischu B, hayprO B, Merz C+, Jinro C+, Seiplo C, Jimpo C, LaLush C, Naugrim C = 26,5

Canada: HuK A+, Kiwikaki B+, SLush B, TT1 C+, Drewbie C+, dde C, Ostojiy C = 14,5

USA: Idra A, Sheth B+, qxc C+, Gatored C+,Tyler C, Pokebunny C Machine C, iNcontroL C, KawaiiRice C, Painuser C = 14,5

Ukraine: White-Ra A, Dimaga A, Kas A, Strelok B+, Bly C+, HappyZerg C = 14

Germany HasuObs B+, Socke B+, GoOdy B+, TLO B, Darkforce C+, XlorD C+, Mondragon C = 13,5

France: Stephano A+, ToD B+, SarenS C+, Adelscott C+, MoMan C 11,5

Poland: Nerchio A, Mana A, Tarson B+, DieStar C, Paranoid C =10,5

Russia: BratOk B+, Happy B, Titan C, Pomi C, Abver C, LiveZerg C, HasHe C = 9,5

Netherlands: Ret A, Grubby B+, DaBoO C = 6,5

UK: DeMusliM A, BlinG C+, Pureball C = 5,5

Finland: Elfi B+, Welmu C+, Naama C+ ,Satiini C = 5,5

Australia: mOOnGlaDe B, Iaguz C+, tgun C = 4,5

Romania: Nightend B, Deathangel C+ = 3,5

Peru: Fenix B, CatZ C = 3

Serbia: Beastyqt B+ =2,5

Chile: KiLLeR B+ = 2,5

Italy: Cloud B = 2

Denmark: BabyKnight C, Ciara C = 2

Spain: Lucifron C+ = 1,5

Belarus: LoWeLy C+ = 1,5

Israel: Osho C+ =1,5

Norway: Snute = 1,5

Switzerland: biGs C = 1

Belgium: Orly C = 1

I'm sure I missed some players and keep in mind the ranking is very subjective . Also the ranking system itself doesn't necessarily provide the beste Sc2 nations besides Korea and China. Although I think it's quite safe to say it's Sweden no matter how you look at it





I don't care for nitpicking your list but I am curious as to what South Korea's score would be under your system. Probably over 100.

South Korea's power levels are OVER NINE THOUSAND


This power ranking idea is not viable. How do you assign value to players? Do we value their achievements in the past or only recent ones? How is Stephano an A+ while Idra is an A and Jinro is a C+ (those two have earned their way into Code-S before spots were just given to people)? QXC has an all-kill of Koreans, how is he rated lower than Bischu, who has done nothing in the Korean scene? Dimaga was the first to beat NesTea's ZvZ when the prospect of that ever happening was unheard of. Does that not qualify him for an A+? Also, fanboyism makes assigning unbiased value to players essentially impossible
SOOOOOooooOOOOooooOOOOoo Many BANELINGS!!
GreEny K
Profile Joined February 2008
Germany7312 Posts
December 28 2011 17:42 GMT
#600
On December 29 2011 02:40 Lewan72 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 29 2011 02:19 red4ce wrote:
On December 29 2011 01:07 Malaz wrote:
So lets do this with a point system. I know this doesn't make the whole thing any less subjective, but I'm bored right now I don't know the Chinese players well enough so I won't put them in the equation.

A+: Top foreigner able to beat almost every top Korean in a Bo3 = 5 points
A: Still one of the best foreigners, just a step away from A+ = 3 points
B+: Player between A and B = 2,5 points
B: Very strong player that can win online cups but no big lans = 2 points
C+: Player between B and C = 1,5 points
C: Players with great potential that haven't delivered results yet or players that used to be higher but are currently in a little slump = 1 point

Sweden: Naniwa A+, SaSe A, ThorZain A, MorroW B+, SjoW B, Bischu B, hayprO B, Merz C+, Jinro C+, Seiplo C, Jimpo C, LaLush C, Naugrim C = 26,5

Canada: HuK A+, Kiwikaki B+, SLush B, TT1 C+, Drewbie C+, dde C, Ostojiy C = 14,5

USA: Idra A, Sheth B+, qxc C+, Gatored C+,Tyler C, Pokebunny C Machine C, iNcontroL C, KawaiiRice C, Painuser C = 14,5

Ukraine: White-Ra A, Dimaga A, Kas A, Strelok B+, Bly C+, HappyZerg C = 14

Germany HasuObs B+, Socke B+, GoOdy B+, TLO B, Darkforce C+, XlorD C+, Mondragon C = 13,5

France: Stephano A+, ToD B+, SarenS C+, Adelscott C+, MoMan C 11,5

Poland: Nerchio A, Mana A, Tarson B+, DieStar C, Paranoid C =10,5

Russia: BratOk B+, Happy B, Titan C, Pomi C, Abver C, LiveZerg C, HasHe C = 9,5

Netherlands: Ret A, Grubby B+, DaBoO C = 6,5

UK: DeMusliM A, BlinG C+, Pureball C = 5,5

Finland: Elfi B+, Welmu C+, Naama C+ ,Satiini C = 5,5

Australia: mOOnGlaDe B, Iaguz C+, tgun C = 4,5

Romania: Nightend B, Deathangel C+ = 3,5

Peru: Fenix B, CatZ C = 3

Serbia: Beastyqt B+ =2,5

Chile: KiLLeR B+ = 2,5

Italy: Cloud B = 2

Denmark: BabyKnight C, Ciara C = 2

Spain: Lucifron C+ = 1,5

Belarus: LoWeLy C+ = 1,5

Israel: Osho C+ =1,5

Norway: Snute = 1,5

Switzerland: biGs C = 1

Belgium: Orly C = 1

I'm sure I missed some players and keep in mind the ranking is very subjective . Also the ranking system itself doesn't necessarily provide the beste Sc2 nations besides Korea and China. Although I think it's quite safe to say it's Sweden no matter how you look at it





I don't care for nitpicking your list but I am curious as to what South Korea's score would be under your system. Probably over 100.


I don't think tossing in random no-name pro-gamers should count. Remember its not all about quantity.


We would have to take ALL of the players that play SC2 in each country and then find the average skill level, and then do that for each country. Would be the only fair way.
Why would you ever choose failure, when success is an option.
Prev 1 28 29 30 31 32 48 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Invitational
20:00
WardiTV Not-Summer Championshi
SHIN vs herO
WardiTV1072
IntoTheiNu 795
TaKeTV 320
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ByuN 428
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 31128
Horang2 1123
Shuttle 928
Larva 839
FanTaSy 797
Rush 417
actioN 360
BeSt 334
firebathero 155
Hyun 147
[ Show more ]
Zeus 103
Last 80
Mind 69
Bishop 56
910 50
Barracks 33
HiyA 31
ToSsGirL 30
Bale 28
Aegong 27
scan(afreeca) 21
Rock 18
soO 15
Free 13
yabsab 13
Sacsri 12
ajuk12(nOOB) 9
Dota 2
syndereN1810
Dendi1571
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
fl0m2682
Heroes of the Storm
Lowko444
Other Games
singsing2827
B2W.Neo1092
Beastyqt534
Mlord443
Khaldor436
crisheroes173
DeMusliM170
KnowMe119
Chillindude22
fpsfer 1
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 12
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 6
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3659
League of Legends
• Nemesis4667
• Jankos1765
Upcoming Events
AI Arena Tournament
1h 8m
BSL Open Qualifier
4h 8m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
19h 8m
OSC
22h 8m
IPSL
1d 1h
BSL Open Qualifier
1d 4h
WardiTV Weekly
1d 20h
IntoTheTV X SOOP
2 days
PiGosaur Cup
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
[ Show More ]
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
FEL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Copium Cup

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Acropolis #5 - GSC
HCC Season 3
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.