• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 08:58
CET 14:58
KST 22:58
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13
Community News
[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation13Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA8StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship7
StarCraft 2
General
Zerg is losing its identity in StarCraft 2 [TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 3 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Tenacious Turtle Tussle Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ What happened to TvZ on Retro? SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] RO32 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group C - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
PvZ map balance Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers How to stay on top of macro?
Other Games
General Games
Clair Obscur - Expedition 33 Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Dyadica Gospel – a Pulp No…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2219 users

[Show] Inside The Game - Official Thread - Page 60

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 58 59 60 61 62 496 Next
Cocomiel
Profile Joined June 2011
14 Posts
June 29 2011 08:37 GMT
#1181
On June 29 2011 17:30 Baarn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2011 16:47 Cocomiel wrote:
So was the whole show about this drama or was there actual SC2 content as well? Cause if it is I think I ll just skip this weeks episode...


There was content other than this bullshit at the end of it that people keep going on about.


Cool..guess Ill check it out then. Will just skip the first part I guess. Ty.
Hrwa
Profile Joined August 2010
Croatia147 Posts
June 29 2011 08:40 GMT
#1182
On June 29 2011 17:37 Cocomiel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2011 17:30 Baarn wrote:
On June 29 2011 16:47 Cocomiel wrote:
So was the whole show about this drama or was there actual SC2 content as well? Cause if it is I think I ll just skip this weeks episode...


There was content other than this bullshit at the end of it that people keep going on about.


Cool..guess Ill check it out then. Will just skip the first part I guess. Ty.


Drama was in last 45 minutes or so.
"That trophy is worth a million times more than the money" - NaNiwa after winning MLG Dallas
Cocomiel
Profile Joined June 2011
14 Posts
June 29 2011 08:46 GMT
#1183
On June 29 2011 17:40 Hrwa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2011 17:37 Cocomiel wrote:
On June 29 2011 17:30 Baarn wrote:
On June 29 2011 16:47 Cocomiel wrote:
So was the whole show about this drama or was there actual SC2 content as well? Cause if it is I think I ll just skip this weeks episode...


There was content other than this bullshit at the end of it that people keep going on about.


Cool..guess Ill check it out then. Will just skip the first part I guess. Ty.


Drama was in last 45 minutes or so.


Should have understood that from the last post but I read it wrong Thanks for the correction.
algorithm0r
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada486 Posts
June 29 2011 08:53 GMT
#1184
The facts as I understand them:

+ Show Spoiler +

SotG almost got sponsored by one of Complexity's sponsors.

EG (or its sponsors) did not want EG members participating in SotG if this deal went through.

EG tried to get one of their sponsors to sponsor SotG so that EG members would not have a conflict with the show.

SotG did not accept any sponsorship deal.

EG gave a raise to InControl about what he would have made if SotG was sponsored (which it wasn't) and told him they would create a new show for him (that justifies the raise). This show was ItG.

Eventually InControl realized he had bitten off more than he could chew and something had to go.

EG and InControl decided that the most reasonable thing to go would be SotG for the obvious reason that InControl was being paid for his other obligations (ItG, NASL, progaming) and that EG had no vested interest in SotG.

InControl left SotG.

InControl left NASL.

InControl now has "permission" to return to SotG.


My confessed bias:

+ Show Spoiler +

I happen to believe that people tend to compromise their character a lot and their best interests so that they can get a little more money. While I don't think money or the desire to earn money is wrong in the least, I think that people are often willing to do things they don't agree with because money is on the table. I happen to admire Destiny for being of strong character in that he was unwilling to do things he disagreed with to be on Complexity and has stated that his reason for that is that he does not want to compromise his character for some extra money. I think Destiny is a good example here because he has shown that compromising ones character or desires is not the only way to make a living. I strongly believe that it is possible to be of strong character AND make a decent reasonable living.


My issue with how EG handles its sponsors and the SotG situation:

EG's management or EG's sponsors (I suspect the management) is not very subtle in how they want their sponsorship promoted. Case in point:
- EVERY interview with and EG member ends with a list of every sponsor.
- EVERY SotG ends with a list of every EG sponsor. (The fact that I know that Intel, Steelseries, Bigfoot Networks, Monster Energy, Kingston Hyper X are all sponsors of EG is from this policy.)

In contrast other teams are not so aggressive with their sponsors. My speculation is that this is because of different team policies or because of different types of sponsorship contracts.

EG's management (and they claim their sponsors) have strong exclusivity feelings about sponsorship. That is, because EG is sponsored, they cannot appear on shows not sponsored by EG's sponsors, or at the least, they can't appear on shows that have sponsors in direct competition with one of their sponsors.

- While it was made to seem this is a perfectly obvious or reasonably policy on ItG, it is certainly not common, and I'd wager not even that common of EG.
- Would EG not participate in a tournament (say MLG since it is sponsored by Astro equipment) because of a sponsor conflict? No. Because the sponsorship agreement between MLG and its sponsors does not prevent EG members from promoting their sponsors in interviews and the like.
- Further, regardless of the potential sponsorship conflict on SotG, it is hard to argue that SotG is not one of the best venues for EG's sponsors (since the shout outs at the end of every show). So even the sponsorship answer does not seem 100% true to me.

I think integrity of character demands that the people at EG be up front with the real reasons behind this conflict, and my only thought on why they weren't is because there is something that would not be received well by the public in this case.

InControl: I'm sure he wanted to say that his place on the team was the reason that he could not be on SotG as a pillar. He was unable to say it, presumably because of pressure from the team. I think the strongest character would come right out and say "I am leaving SotG due to conflicts between the wishes of my team and the show. While I wish to both be on SotG and maintain good standing with EG, EG is my employer and their wishes for me must take precedence. If they request I leave SotG I must." If this frank statement complicated things with EG then a strong character would stand up for their opinion (that he wanted to remain on SotG) and if the ramifications of being truthful cost him the job, I REALLY question the quality of EG.

EG: I'm even willing to believe that the EG wanted to let InControl remain on SotG, but here I find it harder to believe that somewhere in the management there wasn't a desire to have things their way. I believe integrity on the part of EG would demand that if they were getting strong pressure from their sponsor to remove EG members from SotG due to content issues, or their affiliation with members of other teams possibly sponsored by competitors, or the fact that SotG itself may be sponsored by a competitor, they should take every effort to explain to the sponsor that SotG is a great venue for their promotion, and barring that, come out and say that a sponsor EG was unwilling to lose was applying strong pressure for InControl to leave. Further, I think any agreement with a sponsor that provided the sponsor with that much control over their team was shortsighted.

To conclude I think that EG made a major faux pas possibly due to bad decisions made in management of their sponsor and players. I also think that InControl may have handled the situation a little better himself, but in his case I can understand the pressure that is placed on you by your employer. I am glad that EG has "allowed" InControl to return to SotG and I hope that he will do just that. He was a great part of that show. I also hope that if there comes a conflict between ItG and SotG that they make a reasonable attempt to accommodate both.
JoelB
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany311 Posts
June 29 2011 08:57 GMT
#1185
I keep asking myself why in the hell so many people go nuts about this whole topic. There's been so much drama on TL lately mostly because of things that to me have zero to none importance, but it seems like a lot of people either have far tooo much time to constantly argue about such things OR the community itself is hyper-critical about everything.
I mean, what was going on there sure is a little sad but still its neither my job to care about nor yours - its THEIRS! And they will do what ever suites them best. Some people always tend to think that those public figures have some strange obligation towards the community or specifically themselves but ... that's not the case. You can decide if you like them or want to watch their shows, but thats it. Seriously - calm down. I guess because everything is still so small and familiar many people seem to overestimate their personal role in this whole thing.

Anyways id like to thank IC, Wheat, JP an all the other great people for their work and the time and effort they put into that. It's always a pleasure to listen to your shows, which in one way or the other will continue anyways. Because of my Bachelorthesis i atm cannot really play myself, but working and listening to you in the meanwhile makes work so much more endurable for me that i really in contrast to all those raging people like to say one thing: THANK YOU and keep up the great work!
Cheers
Matkap
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Spain627 Posts
June 29 2011 09:01 GMT
#1186
Everyone says their sponsors in Sotg, its just EG has more sponsors
A man tells his stories so many times that he becomes the stories. They live on after him, and in that way he becomes immortal.
MrCon
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
France29748 Posts
June 29 2011 09:13 GMT
#1187
On June 29 2011 17:57 JoelB wrote:
I keep asking myself why in the hell so many people go nuts about this whole topic. There's been so much drama on TL lately mostly because of things that to me have zero to none importance, but it seems like a lot of people either have far tooo much time to constantly argue about such things OR the community itself is hyper-critical about everything.
I mean, what was going on there sure is a little sad but still its neither my job to care about nor yours - its THEIRS! And they will do what ever suites them best. Some people always tend to think that those public figures have some strange obligation towards the community or specifically themselves but ... that's not the case. You can decide if you like them or want to watch their shows, but thats it. Seriously - calm down. I guess because everything is still so small and familiar many people seem to overestimate their personal role in this whole thing.

Anyways id like to thank IC, Wheat, JP an all the other great people for their work and the time and effort they put into that. It's always a pleasure to listen to your shows, which in one way or the other will continue anyways. Because of my Bachelorthesis i atm cannot really play myself, but working and listening to you in the meanwhile makes work so much more endurable for me that i really in contrast to all those raging people like to say one thing: THANK YOU and keep up the great work!
Cheers

Well, it's easy to understand. This whole stuff made the most popular starcraft podcast disappear.
Added with the fact that now, one organization has the monopoly on most of starcraft 2 content, that can raise some concern about the neutrality, diversity and independence of the opinions we'll hear in those shows (even if until now, incontrol and wheat are showing no sign of it, except perhaps about the GSL that is always ignored, but that could be a coincidence)
shavi
Profile Joined July 2010
United States127 Posts
June 29 2011 09:14 GMT
#1188
On June 29 2011 14:00 CrossTheRiver wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2011 13:55 nvs. wrote:
But even so, let's say they lied...who cares? Does it change anything?


No, it doesn't change anything, but there's just so many lies and so much politicking going on in the real world that I lament its entry into my recreational activities. ^^



Unfortunately that's the nature of the beast. Anytime business or money is involved, where personal image can affect people's ability to pay bills, there will always be a certain amount of public maneuvering. What EG did today however should totally dispel any notion that they did anything wrong.

in my opinion they did everything right and have been made into the scape goat. They are an easy target because certain other notable folks in the community have some specific beef with EG and a lot of people parrot the negativity without ever exploring what is really going on.

The good news for you my man, is you can so easily side step all this nonsense that there is no need to fret or lose sleep.


You really think they did EVERYTHING right? You think initially lying to the community about the issue in the first place was right?

Sorry if lying does matter to me. Sorry if someone outright lies to me (me as part of the community), I get offended and upset. I don't feel I deserve all information all the time. Hell, I don't feel I deserve to see all information EVER. But I don't feel I EVER deserve to be lied to, by a company/person/robot/politician/WHATEVER.

If it comes into the limelight you did in fact lie to a mass, such as what happened here, I feel a response like this is extremely warranted by the community and I don't feel it's any negative will being exemplified because some "notable folk" having some other beef with them. I think we were fine with EG until we saw a bullshit excuse to pull iNcontroL from a show we love, and then get proof that we were right later. If you're fine to being lied to about any issue ever I feel really sorry for you, thankfully this community doesn't seem to enjoy it much.
karpo
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden1998 Posts
June 29 2011 09:23 GMT
#1189
On June 29 2011 17:57 JoelB wrote:
I keep asking myself why in the hell so many people go nuts about this whole topic. There's been so much drama on TL lately mostly because of things that to me have zero to none importance, but it seems like a lot of people either have far tooo much time to constantly argue about such things OR the community itself is hyper-critical about everything.
I mean, what was going on there sure is a little sad but still its neither my job to care about nor yours - its THEIRS! And they will do what ever suites them best. Some people always tend to think that those public figures have some strange obligation towards the community or specifically themselves but ... that's not the case. You can decide if you like them or want to watch their shows, but thats it. Seriously - calm down. I guess because everything is still so small and familiar many people seem to overestimate their personal role in this whole thing.

Anyways id like to thank IC, Wheat, JP an all the other great people for their work and the time and effort they put into that. It's always a pleasure to listen to your shows, which in one way or the other will continue anyways. Because of my Bachelorthesis i atm cannot really play myself, but working and listening to you in the meanwhile makes work so much more endurable for me that i really in contrast to all those raging people like to say one thing: THANK YOU and keep up the great work!
Cheers


I find both the people complaining about even the smallest thing and the people that feel the need to downplay and defend e-celebrities to be equally annoying. EG made a mistake and should get some of the shit they're getting, it's went kinda overboard but that's cause people care alot for their favorite show i guess. Of course they have a obligation to the fans, it's the fans that watch the streams/shows and provide the base for sponsorship. EG should really want to please and be open with their fans as it's the base for their revenue.
EnderCraft
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1746 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-29 09:39:09
June 29 2011 09:25 GMT
#1190
Geoff is done with NASL. That's what was really eating up his time. Also I propose in the interest of all the hosts on SoTG, SotG should be shortened to a 90 minute long podcast. I don't think 3 hours of podcasting on Tuesdays will nearly take it's toll on Geoff as casting NASL 5 days a week.

Geoff says he wants to do SotG. And as a personal fan of Geoff, permitting JP make the show strictly 90 minutes, I would be willing to sacrifice a longer SoTG for a shorter SotG that would allow Geoff to feasibly get enough practice in for the day while still doing ITG/SotG.

Ultimately, this is Geoff's decision. I cannot speak for Geoff and say what is not straining or too straining on his work schedule. However as a fan, I hope JP, EG, and all of it's sponsors can consider compromising so we can see one of the most vital parts of the community return to it's truest form for all iNcontrol fans to enjoy

Edit: There, I removed an unnecessary few sentences that detracted from my main point.
SC:BW has a higher skill ceiling than SC2? SC 64 is where it's at brah.
Oreo7
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1647 Posts
June 29 2011 09:30 GMT
#1191
On June 29 2011 18:25 EnderCraft wrote:
Until those conflicts on interests arise, there is virtually no reason why EG and it's sponsors should be paranoid about SotG. The complexity thing flopped. What are you worried about?

Geoff is done with NASL. That's what was really eating up his time. Also I propose in the interest of all the hosts on SoTG, SotG should be shortened to a 90 minute long podcast. I don't think 3 hours of podcasting on Tuesdays will nearly take it's toll on Geoff as casting NASL 5 days a week.

Geoff says he wants to do SotG. And as a personal fan of Geoff, permitting JP make the show strictly 90 minutes, I would be willing to sacrifice a longer SoTG for a shorter SotG that would allow Geoff to feasibly get enough practice in for the day while still doing ITG/SotG.

Ultimately, this is Geoff's decision. I cannot speak for Geoff and say what is not straining or too straining on his work schedule. However as a fan, I hope JP, EG, and all of it's sponsors can consider compromising so we can see one of the most vital parts of the community return to it's truest form for all iNcontrol fans to enjoy


You're ignorant to the situation. Geoff isn't of sotg because he doesn't have time, but because as an EG member, he's not allowed to be.
Stork HerO and Protoss everywhere - redfive on bnet
shavi
Profile Joined July 2010
United States127 Posts
June 29 2011 09:34 GMT
#1192
On June 29 2011 18:30 Oreo7 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2011 18:25 EnderCraft wrote:
Until those conflicts on interests arise, there is virtually no reason why EG and it's sponsors should be paranoid about SotG. The complexity thing flopped. What are you worried about?

Geoff is done with NASL. That's what was really eating up his time. Also I propose in the interest of all the hosts on SoTG, SotG should be shortened to a 90 minute long podcast. I don't think 3 hours of podcasting on Tuesdays will nearly take it's toll on Geoff as casting NASL 5 days a week.

Geoff says he wants to do SotG. And as a personal fan of Geoff, permitting JP make the show strictly 90 minutes, I would be willing to sacrifice a longer SoTG for a shorter SotG that would allow Geoff to feasibly get enough practice in for the day while still doing ITG/SotG.

Ultimately, this is Geoff's decision. I cannot speak for Geoff and say what is not straining or too straining on his work schedule. However as a fan, I hope JP, EG, and all of it's sponsors can consider compromising so we can see one of the most vital parts of the community return to it's truest form for all iNcontrol fans to enjoy


You're ignorant to the situation. Geoff isn't of sotg because he doesn't have time, but because as an EG member, he's not allowed to be.


Actually, it seems you're ignorant to the situation. With NASL gone and SotG not getting the soundblaster sponsorship, Geoff is free to be on SotG.
EnderCraft
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1746 Posts
June 29 2011 09:41 GMT
#1193
On June 29 2011 18:30 Oreo7 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2011 18:25 EnderCraft wrote:
Until those conflicts on interests arise, there is virtually no reason why EG and it's sponsors should be paranoid about SotG. The complexity thing flopped. What are you worried about?

Geoff is done with NASL. That's what was really eating up his time. Also I propose in the interest of all the hosts on SoTG, SotG should be shortened to a 90 minute long podcast. I don't think 3 hours of podcasting on Tuesdays will nearly take it's toll on Geoff as casting NASL 5 days a week.

Geoff says he wants to do SotG. And as a personal fan of Geoff, permitting JP make the show strictly 90 minutes, I would be willing to sacrifice a longer SoTG for a shorter SotG that would allow Geoff to feasibly get enough practice in for the day while still doing ITG/SotG.

Ultimately, this is Geoff's decision. I cannot speak for Geoff and say what is not straining or too straining on his work schedule. However as a fan, I hope JP, EG, and all of it's sponsors can consider compromising so we can see one of the most vital parts of the community return to it's truest form for all iNcontrol fans to enjoy


You're ignorant to the situation. Geoff isn't of sotg because he doesn't have time, but because as an EG member, he's not allowed to be.

No, your ignorant to the situation because that turned out not to be the case after the sponsorship deal didn't go through. He is allowed on SotG, the manager even said so in the ITG podcast. EG's exec manager did state however that their sponsors in particular were still wary about SotG.
SC:BW has a higher skill ceiling than SC2? SC 64 is where it's at brah.
rotegirte
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany2859 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-29 10:35:18
June 29 2011 10:27 GMT
#1194
algorithm0r, with due respect, but critical parts of your writeup are incorrect.

First off, by the same "standard" EG is held up for by some of the forumers, you should have listed the turn of events in correct chronological order. The way you did it would classify as "deceiving".

+ Show Spoiler +
On June 29 2011 17:53 algorithm0r wrote:
The facts as I understand them:

SotG almost got sponsored by one of Complexity's sponsors.

EG (or its sponsors) did not want EG members participating to be co-hosts in of SotG if this deal went through.

EG tried to get one of their sponsors to sponsor SotG so that EG members would not have a conflict with the show.

SotG did not accept any sponsorship deal EG's offer.

EG gave a raise to InControl about what he would have made if SotG was sponsored (which it wasn't) and told him they would create a new show for him created a new show along with landing new sponsoring (that justifies the raise). This show was ItG.

SotG ended up not taking Complexity's offer as well.

Eventually InControl realized he had bitten off more than he could chew and something had to go.

EG and InControl decided that the most reasonable thing to go would be SotG for the obvious reason that InControl was being paid and for his other legally binding obligations (ItG, NASL, progaming) and that EG had no vested interest in SotG.

InControl left SotG.

InControl left NASL.

InControl now has "permission" to return to SotG.


You then proceed to call them out on what really is common business practice

+ Show Spoiler +
On June 29 2011 17:53 algorithm0r wrote:My issue with how EG handles its sponsors and the SotG situation:

EG's management or EG's sponsors (I suspect the management) is not very subtle in how they want their sponsorship promoted. Case in point:
- EVERY interview with and EG member ends with a list of every sponsor.
- EVERY SotG ends with a list of every EG sponsor. (The fact that I know that Intel, Steelseries, Bigfoot Networks, Monster Energy, Kingston Hyper X are all sponsors of EG is from this policy.)

In contrast other teams are not so aggressive with their sponsors. My speculation is that this is because of different team policies or because of different types of sponsorship contracts.

EG's management (and they claim their sponsors) have strong exclusivity feelings about sponsorship. That is, because EG is sponsored, they cannot appear on shows not sponsored by EG's sponsors, or at the least, they can't appear on shows that have sponsors in direct competition with one of their sponsors.


Please name one organization or single person that does not promote their sponsors. I have always been under the impression that this is the whole idea of sponsorship- the only case being if popularity has risen beyond a certain threshold and there are simply too many sponsors to mention (as in traditional athletes or celebrities).

For the next part, it's a logical continuation of assumptions, which are impossible to verify as an "outsider".

+ Show Spoiler +
On June 29 2011 17:53 algorithm0r wrote:- While it was made to seem this is a perfectly obvious or reasonably policy on ItG, it is certainly not common, and I'd wager not even that common of EG.
- Would EG not participate in a tournament (say MLG since it is sponsored by Astro equipment) because of a sponsor conflict? No. Because the sponsorship agreement between MLG and its sponsors does not prevent EG members from promoting their sponsors in interviews and the like.
- Further, regardless of the potential sponsorship conflict on SotG, it is hard to argue that SotG is not one of the best venues for EG's sponsors (since the shout outs at the end of every show). So even the sponsorship answer does not seem 100% true to me.


- What is not common? That sponsorship conflicts exist? That time issues exist? That contracts that have been signed must be satisfied?
- Again, InControl was acting as a co-host, not a participating guest. That's a huge difference. Much like a soccer team wouldn't likely be able to land both sponsorships with Nike and Adidas, unless they are that popular.
- Read Tyler's post regarding sponsorship deals. Bottom line is, they get very specific and complicated very fast.

You conclude your post with a debatable stance on integrity- partly based on aforementioned flawed "facts".

+ Show Spoiler +
On June 29 2011 17:53 algorithm0r wrote:I think integrity of character demands that the people at EG be up front with the real reasons behind this conflict, and my only thought on why they weren't is because there is something that would not be received well by the public in this case.

InControl: I'm sure he wanted to say that his place on the team was the reason that he could not be on SotG as a pillar. He was unable to say it, presumably because of pressure from the team. I think the strongest character would come right out and say "I am leaving SotG due to conflicts between the wishes of my team and the show. While I wish to both be on SotG and maintain good standing with EG, EG is my employer and their wishes for me must take precedence. If they request I leave SotG I must." If this frank statement complicated things with EG then a strong character would stand up for their opinion (that he wanted to remain on SotG) and if the ramifications of being truthful cost him the job, I REALLY question the quality of EG.

EG: I'm even willing to believe that the EG wanted to let InControl remain on SotG, but here I find it harder to believe that somewhere in the management there wasn't a desire to have things their way. I believe integrity on the part of EG would demand that if they were getting strong pressure from their sponsor to remove EG members from SotG due to content issues, or their affiliation with members of other teams possibly sponsored by competitors, or the fact that SotG itself may be sponsored by a competitor, they should take every effort to explain to the sponsor that SotG is a great venue for their promotion, and barring that, come out and say that a sponsor EG was unwilling to lose was applying strong pressure for InControl to leave. Further, I think any agreement with a sponsor that provided the sponsor with that much control over their team was shortsighted.

To conclude I think that EG made a major faux pas possibly due to bad decisions made in management of their sponsor and players. I also think that InControl may have handled the situation a little better himself, but in his case I can understand the pressure that is placed on you by your employer. I am glad that EG has "allowed" InControl to return to SotG and I hope that he will do just that. He was a great part of that show. I also hope that if there comes a conflict between ItG and SotG that they make a reasonable attempt to accommodate both.


First there is the misconception that the sponsorship conflict is the sole reason. If we would actually follow the facts strictly along their time line, resulting observations are:

1) Conflicting sponsors were the initial issue.
2) Efforts were made to resolve them, however didn't work out for whatever reason
3) A new show along with business arrangements were then created in order to compensate Geoff for this foreseeable income loss.
4) By the time the initial conflict has solved itself, Geoff was already head over heels committed. It would have been problematic for him and EG to drop out of existing contracts.

Now, being at point 4) in time, it is highly debatable whether the initial conflict 1) (which was sorted out by then!) could be considered as the reason why Geoff dropped SotG. Granted, one could give either aspect different weight. But at least be so kind to present it as a personal interpretation of the events- not omitting the apparent time issue altogether.

Next, "I am leaving SotG due to conflicts between the wishes of my team and the show. While I wish to both be on SotG and maintain good standing with EG, EG is my employer and their wishes for me must take precedence. If they request I leave SotG I must."

Should rather be worded: "I am leaving SotG, because there is only so much hours of a day. While I would have liked to keep doing the show, my current obligations as a whole have been overwhelming. Unfortunately, you all know I am involved in a lot of sponsored work I get paid for. There are contracts to be satisfied. In order to find any more room otherwise, SotG had to give." - again, do consider the specific situation at the time 4).

Last, regarding your view of EG there is still the benefit of the doubt. I would highly recommend checking http://1990truth.org/. You couldn't possibly know how deals are specified. Sponsoring is no charity. And exclusivity is business practice, no matter which way you look at it. Do note that "control" is pretty simple: $. We all wish for team houses, players being able to spend their day with practicing. Guess who pays that. It's no rocket science, really.
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
June 29 2011 10:48 GMT
#1195
So...

If reading things right, apparently someone at Complexity tried to help JP get a sponsorship with Razor (most likely candidate). Geoff's contract with EG makes it so he couldn't actually have been a full time part of something sponsored by a major competitor (this is standard, so not surprising).

To prevent this issue for Geoff, EG went out of its way to setup a similar deal with JP didn't take (or either deal for that matter, likely because he got picked up by MLG). EG, since it seemed that SOTG would take the deal, went out of its way, again, to give Geoff a raise & replace what he was going to lose with a new show. (So, they were trying to develop their player, like they should)

JP doesn't take the deal and gets hired by MLG, but by that point, there were multiple contracts already set in place for OneMoreGame.tv and that was already in motion.

Then Scoots & Geoff had a long discussion about how much he'd over extended himself, probably prompted by the trip to New York. In the end, Geoff decided to drop all but his main contractual duties and to focus on his Pro Gaming career.

So, this is really just a lot of people having to make decisions and then circumstances changing. And that's not just life normally how?
rareh
Profile Joined May 2011
Portugal298 Posts
June 29 2011 10:55 GMT
#1196
On June 29 2011 10:01 quiet noise wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2011 09:54 provrorsbarn wrote:
I think that its a bit "low" (for a lack of a better word) to start a total ripoff show of State of the game just so you can earn more money through sponsorship.... (or whatever the reason was)
by setting up an almost identical show....and also taking one of the most important part of STOG (incontrol and also idra) and mash it into a new show.....
It looks really bad in my eyes......
not cool EG.....

i dont really care im just happy its lead by djWHEAT and not JP.


This definitely, JP is one of the worst hosts ever.
Stiluz
Profile Joined October 2010
Norway688 Posts
June 29 2011 10:56 GMT
#1197
On June 29 2011 19:48 Taf the Ghost wrote:
So, this is really just a lot of people having to make decisions and then circumstances changing. And that's not just life normally how?


Appearantly normal life suddenly becomes very interesting during summer vacation when people have more time on their hands, and things like this and the Destiny/Complexity stuff are blown completely out of proportion.
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
June 29 2011 10:58 GMT
#1198
On June 29 2011 19:56 Stiluz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2011 19:48 Taf the Ghost wrote:
So, this is really just a lot of people having to make decisions and then circumstances changing. And that's not just life normally how?


Appearantly normal life suddenly becomes very interesting during summer vacation when people have more time on their hands, and things like this and the Destiny/Complexity stuff are blown completely out of proportion.


Good point!
Owii
Profile Joined July 2010
United States357 Posts
June 29 2011 11:03 GMT
#1199
On June 29 2011 10:23 jmbthirteen wrote:
I find it funny that people think they deserve full transparency in situations where they aren't involved in at all.


How are we not involved? If Complexity and EG and etc are to be taken as serious companies, then aren't we the consumers? Don't consumers have the right to know what goes into the products that they are consuming?
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
June 29 2011 11:10 GMT
#1200
On June 29 2011 20:03 Owii wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2011 10:23 jmbthirteen wrote:
I find it funny that people think they deserve full transparency in situations where they aren't involved in at all.


How are we not involved? If Complexity and EG and etc are to be taken as serious companies, then aren't we the consumers? Don't consumers have the right to know what goes into the products that they are consuming?


No, as you aren't a EG or Complexity consumer. You consume the product the Leagues put on. You're open to questioning those leagues, but the Pro Teams don't owe you anything.

And, this is just simple business development. If you want to know a lot about that, go read the Wall Street Journal then get bored out of your mind.
Prev 1 58 59 60 61 62 496 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Korean Royale
12:00
Group Stage 1 - Group A
WardiTV559
LiquipediaDiscussion
Kung Fu Cup
12:00
2025 Monthly #3: Day 5
Cure vs herOLIVE!
Reynor vs TBD
RotterdaM693
TKL 393
IndyStarCraft 284
SteadfastSC137
IntoTheiNu 43
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 693
TKL 393
Reynor 305
Tasteless 301
IndyStarCraft 284
Rex 149
SteadfastSC 122
Railgan 21
MindelVK 16
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 35707
Rain 9015
Sea 4274
firebathero 4205
BeSt 1727
Horang2 1709
GuemChi 947
Soma 618
EffOrt 534
Stork 504
[ Show more ]
Mini 464
actioN 301
Rush 211
Killer 160
Last 151
Hyun 140
hero 135
scan(afreeca) 129
Mind 89
Bonyth 87
Barracks 63
Sharp 53
yabsab 50
zelot 50
Snow 49
Sea.KH 44
sorry 38
sas.Sziky 28
Shinee 17
Hm[arnc] 15
NaDa 11
Bale 6
Dota 2
singsing3002
qojqva1738
Gorgc1728
Dendi1107
XcaliburYe288
Counter-Strike
byalli575
x6flipin499
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor259
Liquid`Hasu181
Other Games
FrodaN5180
B2W.Neo1697
Pyrionflax363
Fuzer 268
KnowMe224
DeMusliM78
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream15417
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream1715
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 8
• Dystopia_ 8
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV588
• Ler69
Upcoming Events
BSL 21
6h 2m
JDConan vs Semih
Dragon vs Dienmax
Tech vs NewOcean
TerrOr vs Artosis
IPSL
6h 2m
Dewalt vs WolFix
eOnzErG vs Bonyth
Replay Cast
9h 2m
Wardi Open
22h 2m
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 3h
Replay Cast
1d 9h
WardiTV Korean Royale
1d 22h
BSL: GosuLeague
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
3 days
BSL: GosuLeague
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
5 days
IPSL
6 days
Julia vs Artosis
JDConan vs DragOn
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-14
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
SLON Tour Season 2
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.