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On April 06 2011 21:36 mockturtle wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2011 21:15 PraetorianX wrote:On April 06 2011 20:24 VoidEU wrote:
Problem is that this is banned in many countries, for example sweden.
There is no way of legally get your hands on Adderall here, thus making a pretty unfair advantage for the ones who actually can?
As long as its not available to all players, it should not be allowed. Well, I'm actually a doctor (technically still a medical student) here in Sweden and I can tell you that amphetamine based ADHD medication is not banned or illegal. The most perscribed types are Ritalin and Concerta, and they are perscribed relatively generously, as they are in the rest of the western world. As a medical professional, I can almost guarantee that many SC2 players (and commentators) are taking amphetamine since I recognize the effects of the medication in their behaviour. The most blatant example is H to the Usky Husky. The speed and manner in which he speaks is typical for a medicated ADHD patient. Now I would also like to add, that ADHD is somewhat of a bogus diagnosis - similar to Aspberger's. I could never say this in my professional life, of course, but there you have it. Many medical professionals do not believe that ADHD exists. Basically it's a symptom describing diagnosis that could, more or less, be applied to anyone with attention issues. And we all have attention issues to some degree. As such, small doses amphetamine would be helpful for anyone to focus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention_deficit_hyperactivity_disorder#ControversiesIn this way, the diagnosis Aspberger's is applied to people with severe social issues, but issues that we all have in some shape or form. If you look at the tests for made-up disorders like this you will see that it's basically impossible not to score on them. These are some ADHD test questions. + Show Spoiler +1. Do you have a sense of underachievement, of not meeting your goals, regardless of how much you have actually accomplished?
2. I find it difficult to read written material unless it is very interesting or very easy.
3. Especially in groups, I find it hard to stay focused on what is being said in conversations.
4. I have a quick temper...a short fuse.
5. I am irritable, and get upset by minor annoyances.
6. I say things without thinking, and later regret having said them.
7. I make quick decisions without thinking enough about their possible bad results.
8. My relationships with people are made difficult by my tendency to talk first and think later.
9. My moods have highs and lows.
10. I have trouble planning in what order to do a series of tasks or activities.
11. I easily become upset.
12. I seem to be thin skinned and many things upset me.
13. I almost always am on the go.
14. I am more comfortable when moving than when sitting still.
15. In conversations, I start to answer questions before the questions have been fully asked.
16. I usually work on more than one project at a time, and fail to finish many of them.
17. There is a lot of "static" or "chatter" in my head.
18. Even when sitting quietly, I am usually moving my hands or feet.
19. In group activities it is hard for me to wait my turn.
20. My mind gets so cluttered that it is hard for it to function.
21. My thoughts bounce around as if my mind is a pinball machine.
22. My brain feels as if it is a television set with all the channels going at once.
23. I am unable to stop daydreaming.
24. I am distressed by the disorganized way my brain works. Of course, many of these questions or statements are very generic. Everybody has moodswings. Everybody had trouble concentrating. Everyone gets irritated and upset. Now don't get me wrong. I am not saying that people should not get amphetamine perscribed. Actuallly, I would be happy to see more people get amphetamine perscribed since it is a very effective stimulant that can improve your life in many, many ways (in low doses). What I'm saying is that disorders like ADHD work as an excuse to perscribe these kinds of medications. People have a very hard time giving drugs to their kids, but if they have a medical "label" to lean on, it suddenly feels OK. So how can I say ADHD is a not a proper disease? Well, compare it to a brain tumor. You recongnize symptoms, you test to confirm. You can clearly and tangibly see the reason for the symptoms, and treat accordingly. ADHD doesn't work like that. There is no clear cause. If you score high enough on the test, you suddendly have it. So what I'm saying is not that ADHD doesn't exist. I'm saying it's not really a disease, it's more of a way of describing a type of personality. ADHD is a way to be. And doctors found in the 70s that people with this kind of personality, could benefit from amphetamine. And so, ADHD was "invented" as an "excuse" or a reason to perscribe amphetamine to people with attention disorders. I think psychological disorders & public understanding of them (of medicine in general) is a really big problem as you mentioned. I suspect that we look at a lot of modern dysfunctions and try to categorize them in a much older concept of medicine -- i.e., you catch/are born with some disease, and you take medicine for it. Many, many people do not understand that bacterial infections are not viral infections are not fungal infections, and similarly psychological and psycho-physical (like chronic fatigue or fibromyalgia) disorders and syndromes are being shoehorned into this idea that you are either "healthy" or have a "disease" when in reality it's a more complicated sliding scale with perhaps no concept of normal. I like how you describe that ADD is a type of personality -- people forget that while ADD may have been panned as difficult, there are many activities that are neutral or even beneficial for the symptom profile that matches ADD. For example, people with ADD tend to respond well to things which have a higher level adrenaline (e.g., playing paintball vs. sitting quietly reading) -- this might correlate to performing better in a tournament atmosphere vs. sitting at home grinding on the ladder. Of course, it also might correspond to having difficulty practicing methodically for said tournament.
Correct me if Im wrong here. But what I said is that Adderall is banned and you cant get it in sweden no matter what, unless go you to the street.
Ritalin and Concerta is not however. But Ive never claimed that.
And if Im wrong here and I can get these stuffs, feel free to pm me and tell me how : P
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On April 06 2011 21:48 above wrote:
There are things called dopamine. Serotonin, endorphines and epinephrine... Now what they do is Control your mood, perception, and well, everything.... They are the reason you think you are playing better. You're not. Amphetamines increase physical activity, and sadly, sc2 is not a physical activity, it's a mental one, with multiple dimensions and thought processes involved. No drug will make you better then you can naturally be because everyone has a skill ceiling, and it's not going to make you better then what you can be.
So basically, there are drugs that affect every possible important chemical in your brain, which you admittedly say affect "well, everything."
Yet, you don't think they can possibly affect concentration and make you perform at a higher level.
Get the fuck out of here with your irrational bullshit hidden behind trying to call out others and the whole "war on drugs" nonsense. It has nothing to do with irrational fear of drugs.
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No fuck that. Pardon la francais but even suggesting some drug to be allowed in any sport, electronic or otherwise is retarded.
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On April 06 2011 21:51 PJA wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2011 21:48 above wrote:
There are things called dopamine. Serotonin, endorphines and epinephrine... Now what they do is Control your mood, perception, and well, everything.... They are the reason you think you are playing better. You're not. Amphetamines increase physical activity, and sadly, sc2 is not a physical activity, it's a mental one, with multiple dimensions and thought processes involved. No drug will make you better then you can naturally be because everyone has a skill ceiling, and it's not going to make you better then what you can be.
So basically, there are drugs that affect every possible important chemical in your brain, which you admittedly say affect "well, everything." Yet, you don't think they can possibly affect concentration and make you perform at a higher level. Get the fuck out of here with your irrational bullshit hidden behind trying to call out others and the whole "war on drugs" nonsense. It has nothing to do with irrational fear of drugs.
You obviously have no idea how the brain works. Emotional and cognitive effects are not related to your skill sets of playing games. Nothing in the world can increase your brain and mental functions to a high enough degree in Which taking it would create an unfair advantage. This isn't limitless. Science has it's limits.
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what happend to personal freedom?
its no ones business what i take or not take...
adderall and ritaline and such is a very harmfull and scary drug though.
So i wouldnt recommend anyone to take it. It might damage your brain badly.
All of you who eats it should reconsider and check up more facts on it instead of
trusting your drugpushing doctors.
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TBH - I doubt many top players do this. Perhaps some of the lower level players in GSL and other tournies. I seriously doubt Jinro or MC is trying to cheat their way to the top is Adderall or Ritalin. These players are so focused on being the best that adding a crutch to their play isn't what they are looking for.
For players who do use Adderall/Ritalin/W.E. you are only making it harder to play without the drug. You will become acustomed to playing at that mental level and your play will start to fall out like it did without Adderall. The reason professionals do not use this kind of stuff is because they need to be #1 for as long as possible. Real champions want extended success, not a one hit wonder.
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On April 06 2011 21:55 above wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2011 21:51 PJA wrote:On April 06 2011 21:48 above wrote:
There are things called dopamine. Serotonin, endorphines and epinephrine... Now what they do is Control your mood, perception, and well, everything.... They are the reason you think you are playing better. You're not. Amphetamines increase physical activity, and sadly, sc2 is not a physical activity, it's a mental one, with multiple dimensions and thought processes involved. No drug will make you better then you can naturally be because everyone has a skill ceiling, and it's not going to make you better then what you can be.
So basically, there are drugs that affect every possible important chemical in your brain, which you admittedly say affect "well, everything." Yet, you don't think they can possibly affect concentration and make you perform at a higher level. Get the fuck out of here with your irrational bullshit hidden behind trying to call out others and the whole "war on drugs" nonsense. It has nothing to do with irrational fear of drugs. You obviously have no idea how the brain works. Emotional and cognitive effects are not related to your skill sets of playing games. Nothing in the world can increase your brain and mental functions to a high enough degree in Which taking it would create an unfair advantage. This isn't limitless. Science has it's limits.
Erm, drugs do and can increase your mental functions to give an advantage.
A side effect of some parkinson's treatments are drugs that do exactly this and are used by students to give them an advantage before exams especially.
It's like how you should always have a Mars bar before an exam just for the suger/glucose to help you perform or lucozade before/during sports.
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On April 06 2011 21:55 above wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2011 21:51 PJA wrote:On April 06 2011 21:48 above wrote:
There are things called dopamine. Serotonin, endorphines and epinephrine... Now what they do is Control your mood, perception, and well, everything.... They are the reason you think you are playing better. You're not. Amphetamines increase physical activity, and sadly, sc2 is not a physical activity, it's a mental one, with multiple dimensions and thought processes involved. No drug will make you better then you can naturally be because everyone has a skill ceiling, and it's not going to make you better then what you can be.
So basically, there are drugs that affect every possible important chemical in your brain, which you admittedly say affect "well, everything." Yet, you don't think they can possibly affect concentration and make you perform at a higher level. Get the fuck out of here with your irrational bullshit hidden behind trying to call out others and the whole "war on drugs" nonsense. It has nothing to do with irrational fear of drugs. You obviously have no idea how the brain works. Emotional and cognitive effects are not related to your skill sets of playing games. Nothing in the world can increase your brain and mental functions to a high enough degree in Which taking it would create an unfair advantage. This isn't limitless. Science has it's limits.
I'm not a brain expert, but try playing SC2 after 3 beers. Now trying playing SC2 after 3 cups of strong coffee.
QED.
BTW, got a source on "emotional and cognitive effects are not related to your skill sets of playing games"? That has to be the most un-rigorous, ill-defined and probably completely not scientifically backed claim I've ever read.
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On April 06 2011 21:50 VoidEU wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2011 21:36 mockturtle wrote:On April 06 2011 21:15 PraetorianX wrote:On April 06 2011 20:24 VoidEU wrote:
Problem is that this is banned in many countries, for example sweden.
There is no way of legally get your hands on Adderall here, thus making a pretty unfair advantage for the ones who actually can?
As long as its not available to all players, it should not be allowed. Well, I'm actually a doctor (technically still a medical student) here in Sweden and I can tell you that amphetamine based ADHD medication is not banned or illegal. The most perscribed types are Ritalin and Concerta, and they are perscribed relatively generously, as they are in the rest of the western world. As a medical professional, I can almost guarantee that many SC2 players (and commentators) are taking amphetamine since I recognize the effects of the medication in their behaviour. The most blatant example is H to the Usky Husky. The speed and manner in which he speaks is typical for a medicated ADHD patient. Now I would also like to add, that ADHD is somewhat of a bogus diagnosis - similar to Aspberger's. I could never say this in my professional life, of course, but there you have it. Many medical professionals do not believe that ADHD exists. Basically it's a symptom describing diagnosis that could, more or less, be applied to anyone with attention issues. And we all have attention issues to some degree. As such, small doses amphetamine would be helpful for anyone to focus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention_deficit_hyperactivity_disorder#ControversiesIn this way, the diagnosis Aspberger's is applied to people with severe social issues, but issues that we all have in some shape or form. If you look at the tests for made-up disorders like this you will see that it's basically impossible not to score on them. These are some ADHD test questions. + Show Spoiler +1. Do you have a sense of underachievement, of not meeting your goals, regardless of how much you have actually accomplished?
2. I find it difficult to read written material unless it is very interesting or very easy.
3. Especially in groups, I find it hard to stay focused on what is being said in conversations.
4. I have a quick temper...a short fuse.
5. I am irritable, and get upset by minor annoyances.
6. I say things without thinking, and later regret having said them.
7. I make quick decisions without thinking enough about their possible bad results.
8. My relationships with people are made difficult by my tendency to talk first and think later.
9. My moods have highs and lows.
10. I have trouble planning in what order to do a series of tasks or activities.
11. I easily become upset.
12. I seem to be thin skinned and many things upset me.
13. I almost always am on the go.
14. I am more comfortable when moving than when sitting still.
15. In conversations, I start to answer questions before the questions have been fully asked.
16. I usually work on more than one project at a time, and fail to finish many of them.
17. There is a lot of "static" or "chatter" in my head.
18. Even when sitting quietly, I am usually moving my hands or feet.
19. In group activities it is hard for me to wait my turn.
20. My mind gets so cluttered that it is hard for it to function.
21. My thoughts bounce around as if my mind is a pinball machine.
22. My brain feels as if it is a television set with all the channels going at once.
23. I am unable to stop daydreaming.
24. I am distressed by the disorganized way my brain works. Of course, many of these questions or statements are very generic. Everybody has moodswings. Everybody had trouble concentrating. Everyone gets irritated and upset. Now don't get me wrong. I am not saying that people should not get amphetamine perscribed. Actuallly, I would be happy to see more people get amphetamine perscribed since it is a very effective stimulant that can improve your life in many, many ways (in low doses). What I'm saying is that disorders like ADHD work as an excuse to perscribe these kinds of medications. People have a very hard time giving drugs to their kids, but if they have a medical "label" to lean on, it suddenly feels OK. So how can I say ADHD is a not a proper disease? Well, compare it to a brain tumor. You recongnize symptoms, you test to confirm. You can clearly and tangibly see the reason for the symptoms, and treat accordingly. ADHD doesn't work like that. There is no clear cause. If you score high enough on the test, you suddendly have it. So what I'm saying is not that ADHD doesn't exist. I'm saying it's not really a disease, it's more of a way of describing a type of personality. ADHD is a way to be. And doctors found in the 70s that people with this kind of personality, could benefit from amphetamine. And so, ADHD was "invented" as an "excuse" or a reason to perscribe amphetamine to people with attention disorders. I think psychological disorders & public understanding of them (of medicine in general) is a really big problem as you mentioned. I suspect that we look at a lot of modern dysfunctions and try to categorize them in a much older concept of medicine -- i.e., you catch/are born with some disease, and you take medicine for it. Many, many people do not understand that bacterial infections are not viral infections are not fungal infections, and similarly psychological and psycho-physical (like chronic fatigue or fibromyalgia) disorders and syndromes are being shoehorned into this idea that you are either "healthy" or have a "disease" when in reality it's a more complicated sliding scale with perhaps no concept of normal. I like how you describe that ADD is a type of personality -- people forget that while ADD may have been panned as difficult, there are many activities that are neutral or even beneficial for the symptom profile that matches ADD. For example, people with ADD tend to respond well to things which have a higher level adrenaline (e.g., playing paintball vs. sitting quietly reading) -- this might correlate to performing better in a tournament atmosphere vs. sitting at home grinding on the ladder. Of course, it also might correspond to having difficulty practicing methodically for said tournament. Correct me if Im wrong here. But what I said is that Adderall is banned and you cant get it in sweden no matter what, unless go you to the street. Ritalin and Concerta is not however. But Ive never claimed that. And if Im wrong here and I can get these stuffs, feel free to pm me and tell me how : P
Well, Adderal and Ritalin serves basically the same function in the brain, with small differences. Ritalin blocks the reuptake of dopamine and norepinephrine, which increases their concentration in the synapses. Adderal does the same thing, but also directly increases the dopamine levels, producing a slightly more powerful effect.
How do get amphetamines in Sweden? By perscription. Also, by going to the Plattan and asking a Neger if he's got any. Would not recommend the latter, though.
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most of theses drugs are under prescribption, so they had tpo be given by a doctor for a reason in the first place, sadly there are abuses but some might take those pills (just like ritalin), for their health condition and not to enhance their perfmormances
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even if they allowed it, theirs a mental aspect in sc2 as opposed to a physical sport, so imo it wont effect much except for APM, which is practically unnacruate past 300
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I think the professional Starcraft 2 community has more important things to worry about with regard to the integrity of the sport than drug testing.
Like, say, building the idea that it's a sport to begin with.
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On April 06 2011 22:02 Chronald wrote:
TBH - I doubt many top players do this. Perhaps some of the lower level players in GSL and other tournies. I seriously doubt Jinro or MC is trying to cheat their way to the top is Adderall or Ritalin. These players are so focused on being the best that adding a crutch to their play isn't what they are looking for.
For players who do use Adderall/Ritalin/W.E. you are only making it harder to play without the drug. You will become acustomed to playing at that mental level and your play will start to fall out like it did without Adderall. The reason professionals do not use this kind of stuff is because they need to be #1 for as long as possible. Real champions want extended success, not a one hit wonder.
Were we can give the benefit of the doubt, when there is no checking system in place ppl especially pro's have shown they are willing to gain any advantage in every major sport on the planet. There are numerous accounts of CS & Halo players saying how they take these drugs for the performance advantage.
SC/SC2 players are no different, many established pro's have shown they are willing to cheat with maphacks and the like so I don't see what honor code would stop them taking drugs now.
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On April 06 2011 22:06 optical630 wrote:
even if they allowed it, theirs a mental aspect in sc2 as opposed to a physical sport, so imo it wont effect much except for APM, which is practically unnacruate past 300
There are drugs that effect your mental state, so I wouldn't say it's impossible for a drug to give a player more gains.
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Players should be able to use whatever enhancement they like, I want to see the best games.
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On April 06 2011 22:03 Adeeler wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2011 21:55 above wrote:On April 06 2011 21:51 PJA wrote:On April 06 2011 21:48 above wrote:
There are things called dopamine. Serotonin, endorphines and epinephrine... Now what they do is Control your mood, perception, and well, everything.... They are the reason you think you are playing better. You're not. Amphetamines increase physical activity, and sadly, sc2 is not a physical activity, it's a mental one, with multiple dimensions and thought processes involved. No drug will make you better then you can naturally be because everyone has a skill ceiling, and it's not going to make you better then what you can be.
So basically, there are drugs that affect every possible important chemical in your brain, which you admittedly say affect "well, everything." Yet, you don't think they can possibly affect concentration and make you perform at a higher level. Get the fuck out of here with your irrational bullshit hidden behind trying to call out others and the whole "war on drugs" nonsense. It has nothing to do with irrational fear of drugs. You obviously have no idea how the brain works. Emotional and cognitive effects are not related to your skill sets of playing games. Nothing in the world can increase your brain and mental functions to a high enough degree in Which taking it would create an unfair advantage. This isn't limitless. Science has it's limits. Erm, drugs do and can increase your mental functions to give an advantage. A side effect of some parkinson's treatments are drugs that do exactly this and are used by students to give them an advantage before exams especially. It's like how you should always have a Mars bar before an exam just for the suger/glucose to help you perform or lucozade before/during sports.
My point being, it is not a positive relationship. Amphetamines and like substances (Adderall, Riatlin, Concerta, etc) are double edged swords. Yes you will be able to sit in on place for a lot longer and not get bored, but they other side of it is that it lowers your perceived effort, increases heart rate (which increases anxiety and jumpiness), gives you overconfidence which makes you make bad decisions early on, and the list goes on and on...
The reason colleges ban it or have code against it is because it lets you sit there and study for much longer without getting side tracked or getting tired, not because it makes you smarter. You dont understand stuff you didn't understand before you took it, you dont have a higher mental capacity, and it doesn't make you smarter. In all reality, cramming is a stupid thing to do in the first place, and the fact that you'd be in the position just goes to show you that the best habits are already not in place....
If ANYTHING, it could be semi-viable as a training drug to increase the hours possible, but as a performance drug, its not viable at all, and even more so, detrimental to the user.
And in response to the candy bar, its because your brain uses glucose when you think and the sugar can help replenish that, but its even more effective to eat a light meal before an exam due to you getting a full supplemental supply, and not just sugar which is temporary.
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I don't think you can make a section of your post called "Please read before taking the poll!" and have that section be filled with statements that are clearly biased to one view point.
E.g., statements like:
undoubtedly giving themselves an unfair advantage.
do we really want to force all players to pay for costly drugs, with adverse side effects, just so that they are able to compete fairly?
I think that this will certainly skew the results of this poll.
To answer the question, I agree that no one should be given and "unfair" advantage in a competition like Starcraft. However, when it comes to medication, where do you draw the line? If someone is prescribed a drug like aderall, are they allowed to take it? They would likely be at an unfair disadvantage if they were not allowed. So, you could say that gamers must have a prescription in order to use such drugs, but then all a person would need to do is get a prescription (which if you don't know, in a country like America, kids can get Aderall or Ritalin prescribed for just about any reason under the sun--this is a separate problem...).
What I am getting at--and what others have mentioned--is that making any rule about this is going to get complicated. It will be complicated to create and enforce, and likely easy sneak around if desired.
The best solution may be to increase awareness in the competitive community; try to establish a code of ethics among gamers surrounding this issue. People are always going to be using things like drugs to get advantages, but maybe at least some people would be less likely to if there was a strong, collective consensus against it.
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I say leave it to the players discretion. They are adults and they can make their own decisions. I'm sure there are many top tier players who never use drugs, and I'm sure that they aren't necessary to win. The people who are taking them probably have some psychological impairment which the drug is helping to overcome. Besides, if it did become an issue I'm sure it wouldn't be hard for them to obtain legitimate prescriptions. What would you do then? Deny people with a legitimate prescription entrance into events? I know a few people who get prescribed Oxycontin, they don't really need it they are just drug addicts. It isn't hard to get a prescription if you know the right things to say to a doctor.
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On April 06 2011 22:22 above wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2011 22:03 Adeeler wrote:On April 06 2011 21:55 above wrote:On April 06 2011 21:51 PJA wrote:On April 06 2011 21:48 above wrote:
There are things called dopamine. Serotonin, endorphines and epinephrine... Now what they do is Control your mood, perception, and well, everything.... They are the reason you think you are playing better. You're not. Amphetamines increase physical activity, and sadly, sc2 is not a physical activity, it's a mental one, with multiple dimensions and thought processes involved. No drug will make you better then you can naturally be because everyone has a skill ceiling, and it's not going to make you better then what you can be.
So basically, there are drugs that affect every possible important chemical in your brain, which you admittedly say affect "well, everything." Yet, you don't think they can possibly affect concentration and make you perform at a higher level. Get the fuck out of here with your irrational bullshit hidden behind trying to call out others and the whole "war on drugs" nonsense. It has nothing to do with irrational fear of drugs. You obviously have no idea how the brain works. Emotional and cognitive effects are not related to your skill sets of playing games. Nothing in the world can increase your brain and mental functions to a high enough degree in Which taking it would create an unfair advantage. This isn't limitless. Science has it's limits. Erm, drugs do and can increase your mental functions to give an advantage. A side effect of some parkinson's treatments are drugs that do exactly this and are used by students to give them an advantage before exams especially. It's like how you should always have a Mars bar before an exam just for the suger/glucose to help you perform or lucozade before/during sports. My point being, it is not a positive relationship. Amphetamines and like substances (Adderall, Riatlin, Concerta, etc) are double edged swords. Yes you will be able to sit in on place for a lot longer and not get bored, but they other side of it is that it lowers your perceived effort, increases heart rate (which increases anxiety and jumpiness), gives you overconfidence which makes you make bad decisions early on, and the list goes on and on... The reason colleges ban it or have code against it is because it lets you sit there and study for much longer without getting side tracked or getting tired, not because it makes you smarter. You dont understand stuff you didn't understand before you took it, you dont have a higher mental capacity, and it doesn't make you smarter. In all reality, cramming is a stupid thing to do in the first place, and the fact that you'd be in the position just goes to show you that the best habits are already not in place.... If ANYTHING, it could be semi-viable as a training drug to increase the hours possible, but as a performance drug, its not viable at all, and even more so, detrimental to the user. And in response to the candy bar, its because your brain uses glucose when you think and the sugar can help replenish that, but its even more effective to eat a light meal before an exam due to you getting a full supplemental supply, and not just sugar which is temporary.
I wouldn't troll you so hard if your first post wasn't so completely and fundamentally flawed, but once again, where is your proof? You keep saying that drugs can affect your ability to function mentally in a negative way, but that there is no way to gain an unfair advantage.
Although it certainly doesn't constitute proof, there is a huge amount of evidence that drugs can improve your cognitive performance. Top players in halo and SC2 both use ritalin/adderall to play better, and these substances are banned in top chess and go tournaments. Now, all of these people could be riding the placebo train, but I see no reason to believe this a priori, and my personal experiences with the effects of caffeine contradict everything you are saying.
Clearly these drugs cannot make you know things you didn't previously know, but they can improve concentration. I don't even understand how you can think that isn't a huge benefit while playing SC2, especially if you have to play 10+ games in a row at MLG or something. Even ignoring the cognitive effects, the way that some drugs affect a person physically could allow them to react more quickly, giving them an edge.
I'm not saying that drugs are without a doubt giving people an unfair advantage, but I'm pretty sure your complete certainty that they don't is based on the understanding of the brain that you obtained in some sophomore level psychology class.
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On April 06 2011 22:37 PJA wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2011 22:22 above wrote:On April 06 2011 22:03 Adeeler wrote:On April 06 2011 21:55 above wrote:On April 06 2011 21:51 PJA wrote:On April 06 2011 21:48 above wrote:
There are things called dopamine. Serotonin, endorphines and epinephrine... Now what they do is Control your mood, perception, and well, everything.... They are the reason you think you are playing better. You're not. Amphetamines increase physical activity, and sadly, sc2 is not a physical activity, it's a mental one, with multiple dimensions and thought processes involved. No drug will make you better then you can naturally be because everyone has a skill ceiling, and it's not going to make you better then what you can be.
So basically, there are drugs that affect every possible important chemical in your brain, which you admittedly say affect "well, everything." Yet, you don't think they can possibly affect concentration and make you perform at a higher level. Get the fuck out of here with your irrational bullshit hidden behind trying to call out others and the whole "war on drugs" nonsense. It has nothing to do with irrational fear of drugs. You obviously have no idea how the brain works. Emotional and cognitive effects are not related to your skill sets of playing games. Nothing in the world can increase your brain and mental functions to a high enough degree in Which taking it would create an unfair advantage. This isn't limitless. Science has it's limits. Erm, drugs do and can increase your mental functions to give an advantage. A side effect of some parkinson's treatments are drugs that do exactly this and are used by students to give them an advantage before exams especially. It's like how you should always have a Mars bar before an exam just for the suger/glucose to help you perform or lucozade before/during sports. My point being, it is not a positive relationship. Amphetamines and like substances (Adderall, Riatlin, Concerta, etc) are double edged swords. Yes you will be able to sit in on place for a lot longer and not get bored, but they other side of it is that it lowers your perceived effort, increases heart rate (which increases anxiety and jumpiness), gives you overconfidence which makes you make bad decisions early on, and the list goes on and on... The reason colleges ban it or have code against it is because it lets you sit there and study for much longer without getting side tracked or getting tired, not because it makes you smarter. You dont understand stuff you didn't understand before you took it, you dont have a higher mental capacity, and it doesn't make you smarter. In all reality, cramming is a stupid thing to do in the first place, and the fact that you'd be in the position just goes to show you that the best habits are already not in place.... If ANYTHING, it could be semi-viable as a training drug to increase the hours possible, but as a performance drug, its not viable at all, and even more so, detrimental to the user. And in response to the candy bar, its because your brain uses glucose when you think and the sugar can help replenish that, but its even more effective to eat a light meal before an exam due to you getting a full supplemental supply, and not just sugar which is temporary. I wouldn't troll you so hard if your first post wasn't so completely and fundamentally flawed, but once again, where is your proof? You keep saying that drugs can affect your ability to function mentally in a negative way, but that there is no way to gain an unfair advantage. Although it certainly doesn't constitute proof, there is a huge amount of evidence that drugs can improve your cognitive performance. Top players in halo and SC2 both use ritalin/adderall to play better, and these substances are banned in top chess and go tournaments. Now, all of these people could be riding the placebo train, but I see no reason to believe this a priori, and my personal experiences with the effects of caffeine contradict everything you are saying. Clearly these drugs cannot make you know things you didn't previously know, but they can improve concentration. I don't even understand how you can think that isn't a huge benefit while playing SC2, especially if you have to play 10+ games in a row at MLG or something. Even ignoring the cognitive effects, the way that some drugs affect a person physically could allow them to react more quickly, giving them an edge. I'm not saying that drugs are without a doubt giving people an unfair advantage, but I'm pretty sure your complete certainty that they don't is based on the understanding of the brain that you obtained in some sophomore level psychology class.
Why don't you go look up any study done on an amp-based molceule. Comparine Caffeine to Adderall is like comparing Acetaminophen to Hydromorphone. Apples and oranges.
Better concentration at the cost of bad decision making. Sounds beneficial.
And ya, I get paid for working at my pharmacological lab with my sophomore psychology class education. QQ.
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