Unless you're going to start drug testing players, this is totally unenforceable and not worth trying to do, whatever you may think of the merits of stuff like this.

above

United States71 Posts

April 06 2011 13:53 GMT

#182

On April 06 2011 22:49 Heraklitus wrote:
Unless you're going to start drug testing players, this is totally unenforceable and not worth trying to do, whatever you may think of the merits of stuff like this.

Well said.

lunick

23 Posts

April 06 2011 14:02 GMT

#183

I think this is ridiculuous.... What happens if someone is ADD and needs ritalin, you can't just force them to stop taking it and when they do take it and are not allowed into tournaments because of it, it could be seen as having something against the mentally handicapped and sooner or later the tournaments would start getting sued... You guys need to think a little bit about it

Grumbels

Netherlands7031 Posts

April 06 2011 14:04 GMT

#184

It is enforceable. MLG could say being caught using adderall would result in disqualification of not only the player, but also a warning for the team of the player. (most players have teams). Since teams can enforce, this could mostly work in an environment such as starcraft II e-sports, which still has mostly intelligent people.

On another topic, I don't see why people want to allow drugs because it leads to better games. I've seen two people this thread already saying it, and there's honestly no good logic behind it. Suppose adderall improves concentration and lets you play better. But doesn't this lower the skill ceiling artificially, similarly to adding auto mining and MBS? Instead of everyone using drugs, why not make the game just a bit easier then? I guess there are more ways to look at this, but for me I'm not sure if it makes a lot of sense. It depends on your actual definition of what are 'good games', maybe, but that's hard to define in a few words, if at all.

pHelix Equilibria

United States1134 Posts

April 06 2011 14:07 GMT

#185

This is obviously impossible to enforce. I mean how many students around the world take Adderall/Ritalin for their college entrance exams. Who isn't tempted? I was lol. Anyway especially with money involved, people will do anything. Besides TT1, was known to have lack of ethics in gaming, its not surprising that he would.

I do know that in Korea, pharmacy drugs are rather lax compared to the United States. But, I do think that there was some changes now, where they won't allow drugs to be dispensed without a doctor's prescription. Since before pharmacists were allowed to dispense alot of drugs ( most are private pharmacies).

Scrubington

Canada475 Posts

April 06 2011 14:08 GMT

#186

I think the reason the poll is so heavily in favor of "no" is because of how biased the wording is of both the title and the OP.

Sami`

89 Posts

April 06 2011 14:10 GMT

#187

The only reason anyone votes no to this is the negative connotation of the word "drug". If carrots increased your concentration would anyone be asking for carrots to be banned? of course not.

The important question is whether the substance is legal or not, if it is legal then it should be allowed, if its not then it shouldn't be.

DruidzHistory

Sweden231 Posts

April 06 2011 14:11 GMT

#188

South Korea: Amphetamine-based medications are banned in South Korea. They cannot be obtained at a South Korean pharmacy and are illegal to impor

According to wikipedia

quiggy

Canada58 Posts

April 06 2011 14:15 GMT

#189

As a person who taxes Dexedrine to combat ADHD, I feel like this topic is ignoring a very important issue. That people who are prescribed Adderall or Dexedrine in my case, cannot play Starcraft 2 at any reasonable competitive level without it. Starcraft 2 too anyone with ADHD is a sensory overload, its almost impossible to focus and most of the time it nearly unplayable.

The issue is the availability of these drugs to non-prescription patients. You can't restrict these drugs from people who really need them. What needs to happen is stricter government enforcement on prescription drug abuse.

Zarahtra

Iceland4053 Posts

April 06 2011 14:19 GMT

#190

I voted yes, but tbh what I was voting was more "there's no(realistic) way to call someone out on abusing this stuff, so it's a bit pointless to have rules about it".

vicariouscheese

United States589 Posts

April 06 2011 14:22 GMT

#191

Even if tournaments were to go about enforcing this, I'm not sure it would even help... couldn't people just piss clean and then take some pills right before matches?

It's not like steroids, you don't shoot up before going into a sports game~

Svartstol

Sweden171 Posts

April 06 2011 14:36 GMT

#192

WOuld you count Ritalin and such as performance enhancers aswell? People who use it for medication in the regular lifes?

GreEny K

Germany7312 Posts

April 06 2011 14:40 GMT

#193

-_- for all of the people that are asking for studies to be done, get real. No scientific institution is going to do a study on starcraft and Adderral. I do know that some BW pros used PED's and there was nothing done by the leagues to control it. Saying that you don't believe these drugs have an affect on SC is just idiotic. Of course they do, they are made for people with ADHA or ADD to help them stay calm and concentrated. When you apply that to a normal person, they will have the ability to sit and concentrate on one task for hours on end.

GreEny K

Germany7312 Posts

April 06 2011 14:42 GMT

#194

On April 06 2011 23:22 vicariouscheese wrote:
Even if tournaments were to go about enforcing this, I'm not sure it would even help... couldn't people just piss clean and then take some pills right before matches?

It's not like steroids, you don't shoot up before going into a sports game~

Simple solution, test 30 minutes before the match and then immediately after the matches finish...

Of course I don't really care, I say just let it be. Obviously the performance increase is not to the point where once you take it you become unstoppable.

On April 06 2011 23:36 Svartstol wrote:
WOuld you count Ritalin and such as performance enhancers aswell? People who use it for medication in the regular lifes?

That's why you can't test for it... People have normal needs for these medications so trying to test everyone at major tournaments would give you people who fail and then get disqualified even though they need it for health reasons. These are not steroids, these are actual medications that benefit people unlike growth hormones that only have a purpose for ones vanity.

Lysenko

Iceland2128 Posts

April 06 2011 14:44 GMT

#195

Enforceability is irrelevant. The community should make clear that it's not acceptable to use controlled substances to enhance performance without an MD signing off on the medical necessity.

Of course you can't catch everyone who violates such a rule, but that's no reason not to set a clear standard that it's unacceptable.

infinity2k9

United Kingdom2397 Posts

April 06 2011 14:46 GMT

#196

I've used plenty of Dexedrine and amphetamines in general and i don't think it's going to be much help in SC2. Someone is not going to beat you in this game in a high level tournament cause they are on stimulants...

Treemonkeys

United States2082 Posts

April 06 2011 14:46 GMT

#197

What is the big deal? Personally I would be completely against how invasive you would have to be to actually make any attempt to enforce this. All you would do is make tournaments hell for most players and then some other guys would still find ways to sneak through. Drugs will not make someone better at the game.

xLethargicax

United States469 Posts

April 06 2011 14:48 GMT

#198

After reading all ten pages of this, I have a few things I'd like to add to the discussion that were passed up in the sea of comments.

1. I think it's really disrespectful to a player like HuK to blindly insinuate he was on adderral. Think about where he was, 4 hours of sleep, and an hour or so before huge career matches. If I was in his position I would have chugged the fuck out of some coffee. Whether he did anything or not isn't even what I mean to touch on, but the fact someone would blindly, and callously say he was on adderall is so absurd.

2. I do not have personal experience with Adderral, as the drug really scares me, but I have some friends that take it for recreation every now and again. I'm always interested in how a person feels on drugs so I have vicariously explored the drug through them, and I feel like I could say this with authority; I do not believe Adderall would help playing Starcraft at all. EVERY single one of my friends who have taken Adderall while trying to game have told me it's near impossible. They've all told me it's too easy to focus on a game and they feel like they have spare brain power to use so it feels wasteful to play. Generally they write essays while cleaning and shit. That drug is crazy.

Gobbles

Canada91 Posts

April 06 2011 14:49 GMT

#199

I voted yes because your the whole idea is nothing more then speculation with no actual proof of performance enhancing. Having a stronger focus is not "performance enhancing", some people use this daily basis. Yes it helps them focus, No they don't have an advantage because of the drug. Under your logic, people with Attention Deficit can't play in the leagues because they have "performance enhancers" that they HAVE to use. Flawed logic = bad conclusion

GreEny K

Germany7312 Posts

April 06 2011 14:51 GMT

#200

On April 06 2011 23:44 Lysenko wrote:
Enforceability is irrelevant. The community should make clear that it's not acceptable to use controlled substances to enhance performance without an MD signing off on the medical necessity.

Of course you can't catch everyone who violates such a rule, but that's no reason not to set a clear standard that it's unacceptable.

Ok so let us say that the community does say that the frown upon people who use PED's... What then? Since you say that enforcability is not an issue then what is the purpose of the community making it clear that they are against PED use? I've tried adderral for studying purposes and it works wonders, if I wanted to be top tier in SC2 I would definitely take it before tournaments and such, a community frowning upon its use would not make me change that... and how would they find out anyway if nobody is enforcing it?