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To clarify:
1. TT1 never disclosed any specific information on any individual players (because he's nice) who allegedly take Adderall to improve their play.
2. TT1 never referenced any specific live tournaments at which he had witnessed the drugs being used; it was just assumed that, TT1 being a high-profile professional SC2 player, the drugs were being used at high-profile tournaments.
I am very glad to see so many of you passionately debating this issue! Keep it up!
TeKtoniK
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On April 06 2011 14:48 Nadir wrote: What are the cognitive effects of stimulant medications? Emphasis on adults with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) by Claire Advokat. From the Journal of Neuroscience and Biobehavioral Reviews. doi: doi:10.1016/j.neubiorev.2010.03.006
Abstract: The relevant literature concerning cognitive effects of amphetamine and methylphenidate, was reviewed, with an emphasis on research conducted in adults diagnosed with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder. As first-line treatment for ADHD, stimulant drugs are well-known to improve attention and concentration. Yet, there is increasing evidence that (as with children and adolescents), they do not promote learning and academic achievement in adult college students with ADHD. A review of neuropsychological studies indicates that, although response latencies are reduced, performance of ADHD adults on tests of ‘distractibility’ and ‘planning’ is also not consistently improved by stimulants. Studies in non-ADHD adults suggest that stimulants do not promote acquisition of new information, might improve retention of previously acquired information, and facilitate memory consolidation, but may actually impair performance of tasks that require adaptation, flexibility and planning. It is still not clear if improvement only occurs when there is a baseline deficit. Stimulants may influence cognition by their effects on physiological arousal. Regardless, the evidence does not support the conclusion that stimulants are cognitive enhancers.
You cannot call them performance enhancing drugs until you demonstrate that they actually enhance performance. The current evidence suggests that these drugs will have a negative impact on performance in a game like Starcraft 2. First Person Shooters on the other hand may well benefit from their use.
Case close then.Important post, read it up.
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On April 06 2011 15:08 TeKtoniK wrote:
I am very glad to see so many of you passionately debating this issue! Keep it up!
TeKtoniK
On April 06 2011 15:08 TeKtoniK wrote:
I am very glad
TeKtoniK
On April 06 2011 15:08 TeKtoniK wrote:
glad
TeKtoniK
You just don't listen, do you?
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i dont really think that adderall really gives you a huge edge in an RTS. sure you can focus more, but these are professional gamers. maybe it would help you with grinding games when youre bored, but usually the downfall of a player isnt the fact that they didnt concentrate or memorize enough. its their mechanics or decision making skills, which adderall wouldnt help, probably only hurt.
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I really appreciate you thinking about this issue, ( or not an issue ) because it's going to be nice to compare the results we get from this poll, to results maybe 5 years down the road. IMO, people are going to be more lenient(sp??) now then they will be 5 years later when I hope e-sports is going to be huuuuge. Now I'm only 20 years old but I can assume people didnt think steroids were bad when they were introduced and didn't know the side effects? Not to sure on that one. But overall this is going to be interesting to hear peoples opinions.
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On April 06 2011 15:14 zanmat0 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2011 15:08 TeKtoniK wrote:
I am very glad to see so many of you passionately debating this issue! Keep it up!
TeKtoniK You just don't listen, do you?
The underline is used to emphasize the word! This is a forum, you need to use bold and italics interchangeably to get the attention of others!
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On April 06 2011 14:48 Nadir wrote: What are the cognitive effects of stimulant medications? Emphasis on adults with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) by Claire Advokat. From the Journal of Neuroscience and Biobehavioral Reviews. doi: doi:10.1016/j.neubiorev.2010.03.006
Abstract: The relevant literature concerning cognitive effects of amphetamine and methylphenidate, was reviewed, with an emphasis on research conducted in adults diagnosed with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder. As first-line treatment for ADHD, stimulant drugs are well-known to improve attention and concentration. Yet, there is increasing evidence that (as with children and adolescents), they do not promote learning and academic achievement in adult college students with ADHD. A review of neuropsychological studies indicates that, although response latencies are reduced, performance of ADHD adults on tests of ‘distractibility’ and ‘planning’ is also not consistently improved by stimulants. Studies in non-ADHD adults suggest that stimulants do not promote acquisition of new information, might improve retention of previously acquired information, and facilitate memory consolidation, but may actually impair performance of tasks that require adaptation, flexibility and planning. It is still not clear if improvement only occurs when there is a baseline deficit. Stimulants may influence cognition by their effects on physiological arousal. Regardless, the evidence does not support the conclusion that stimulants are cognitive enhancers.
You cannot call them performance enhancing drugs until you demonstrate that they actually enhance performance. The current evidence suggests that these drugs will have a negative impact on performance in a game like Starcraft 2. First Person Shooters on the other hand may well benefit from their use. ^ This. I stopped my meds a month and a half a go. I went through a two-week withdrawal, which sucked, but then I came back to Starcraft 2 and played better than ever.
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a drug like adderall can be simulated by your own mind imo, i couldnt care less if other people did it, if i can beat a person on adderall how much better does that make me?
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what about the placebo effect? Has this been discussed at all... I guess I should read the post.
But what about people popping these pills, that now people are providing evidence for saying they would make you worse, but the placebo effect is enough to still make them feel better. Because psychologically the players feel more focused/calm simply because their brain is telling them they should since they just took the drug that does that.
also any1 who is talking about Steroids and the negative side effects needs to do some legitimate research on them. I am just saying, I guarentee you a lot of the things you think about steroids and their "negative effects" are completely false.
I don't use steroids, but I have friends who do. And I know people who have done a lot of research on them. just saying. (I don't feel required to comment any more on the steroids matter besides: do your research. over 90% of the common steroid negative side effects are complete BS manufactured by the media.)
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I don't believe they improve performance at all. Concentration is learned from hours upon hours of practice until execution is flawless, taking drugs like adderall will not help. The players who take adderall and other medicines may believe they help, but there is no evidence that they are actually beneficial.
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The problem with opinions is they are based on feelings and feelings are illusory. IE, one who takes a CNS depressant may not realize they are actually slower and may even feel faster. Once the effects of the depressant wear off and one actually analyzes the replays and does a comparison the truth is revealed.
No different from thinking you played an awesome game and then in analyzing the replay you find you didn't play as great as you thought you did. Does taking Adderall instantly make you a better starcraft player? No one can say for certain, and until that question is answered this really is a non-issue. To think that one can of mt. dew was the difference between victory and defeat seems pretty short-sighted. Perhaps marketing of these "game fuels" has been taken a bit too seriously.
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I was diagnosed with ADHD at a young age, and have taken adderall/ritalin since about 3rd grade. Since about 10th grade I have weened my self off of it and can mostly function with out it. I still find it hard to concentrate at times, as well as being very easily distracted and I routinely procrastinate(doign that right now with college essay, lol).
That having been said, I still ahve a prescripition from my doctor for them that I get filled about twice a year. i take my pills if I have a large final that I need to be focused for, if their is an important essay that I need to finish(like right now x.x) or if I needed to concentrate for an important series in dota/hon/sc2. Some would say that this makes me a cheater, but i prefer to think of it as me putting myself on a even playing field with everyone else.
EDIT: and just as a FYI, I do find that I play/do/test better when I have taken my meds, but I do not like having to rely on a outside source to be at my best, so I do it as little as possible.
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Lot of thread about this, for sure drugs can help u awake, but some of them will make u forget critical thing, " my micro so good lol, i take 3 of ur unit for 1 for mine haha, well i need to upgrade weapon now, wtf why half my main is dead ? "
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There is no doubt Adderall is performance enhancing,
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Adderall
Combination of Dextroamphetamine Psychostimulant Levoamphetamine Psychostimulant
Adderall is a brand-name psychostimulant medication composed of racemic amphetamine aspartate monohydrate, racemic amphetamine sulfate, dextroamphetamine saccharide, and dextroamphetamine sulfate, which is thought by scientists to work by increasing the amount of dopamine and norepinephrine in the brain. In addition, the drug also acts as a potent dopamine reuptake inhibitor and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor.[1] Adderall is widely reported to increase alertness, increase libido, increase concentration and overall cognitive performance, and, in general, improve mood, while decreasing user fatigue.[citation needed] It is available in two formulations: IR (Instant Release) and XR (Extended Release). The immediate release formulation is indicated for use in Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) and narcolepsy,[2] while the XR formulation is approved for use only with ADHD.[1] Like other powerful stimulant drugs, such as methamphetamine and cocaine, Adderall directly affects the mesolimbic reward pathway in the brain. Because of this, Adderall has a relatively high potential for abuse and addiction, especially if the drug is misused.
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Thought this thread will be dated April 1st...
Anyhow, i think its a bit early to ask for urine samples from competitors for esports competitions don't you?
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This existed in BW?
edit: this may be just what i need in my upcoming bw finals bwwwaaaahahaha!.
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This was common in Halo and Super Smash. It turned out that a lot of the people that took Adderall that the rumors were spread about, were prescribed it. That was not always the case, but it happened more often than it being illegal performance-enhancing drug.
Honestly I don't think there is a steroid for e-sports possible.
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On April 06 2011 15:42 annaky wrote: There is no doubt Adderall is performance enhancing,
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Adderall
Combination of Dextroamphetamine Psychostimulant Levoamphetamine Psychostimulant
Adderall is a brand-name psychostimulant medication composed of racemic amphetamine aspartate monohydrate, racemic amphetamine sulfate, dextroamphetamine saccharide, and dextroamphetamine sulfate, which is thought by scientists to work by increasing the amount of dopamine and norepinephrine in the brain. In addition, the drug also acts as a potent dopamine reuptake inhibitor and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor.[1] Adderall is widely reported to increase alertness, increase libido, increase concentration and overall cognitive performance, and, in general, improve mood, while decreasing user fatigue.[citation needed] It is available in two formulations: IR (Instant Release) and XR (Extended Release). The immediate release formulation is indicated for use in Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) and narcolepsy,[2] while the XR formulation is approved for use only with ADHD.[1] Like other powerful stimulant drugs, such as methamphetamine and cocaine, Adderall directly affects the mesolimbic reward pathway in the brain. Because of this, Adderall has a relatively high potential for abuse and addiction, especially if the drug is misused.
So you see a journal article from Neuroscience and Biobehavioural Review and your counter it with a wikipedia page. Do you see the bit where it says "citation needed"? That means there is no evidence to back this up.
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I can't find the link, but last year when I was signing up to compete in MLG I read somewhere in their documentation that they prohibit the use of all substances banned by the World Doping Agency.
Of course, they're not piss testing anyone so that doesn't mean very much.
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I don't think this has been touched on too much, but I have taken aderall a few times to pull all-nighters in school, and one benefit that hasn't been touched on too much is it's affect on fatigue. Whenever I have taken any of these ADHD meds, besides feeling like I can concentrate on a single task better (I guess research isn't conclusive on this) the drug absolutely wipes away all tiredness from your body for a few hours. This could be a huge advantage in a bo7 format with long macro games where pure fatigue plays a large role.
That being said, doesn't caffeine boost concentration and raise alertness levels / eliminate fatigue? How about those free energy drinks passed out at every major tournament? Just saying that most of us use cognitive enhancers, the only real difference I can see is that aderall is a prescription medication so their are legal ramifications.
Personally though, aderall always made me get stuck on doing small things perfectly making papers come out over-researched or specific sentences worked and reworked. This seems to me the opposite effect that a player wants when multitasking in Starcraft.
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