EPTOn one hand I understand banning it as adderall seems to be very effective and it does give an unfair advantage... On the other hand, it would cause there to be higher quality gameplay and I enjoy watching as high quality gameplay as possible.
Performance Enhancing Drug in Starcraft 2? Yes. - Page 32
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On one hand I understand banning it as adderall seems to be very effective and it does give an unfair advantage... On the other hand, it would cause there to be higher quality gameplay and I enjoy watching as high quality gameplay as possible. | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On July 24 2015 06:13 Shikyo wrote: Well. On one hand I understand banning it as adderall seems to be very effective and it does give an unfair advantage... On the other hand, it would cause there to be higher quality gameplay and I enjoy watching as high quality gameplay as possible. "unfair" is totally arbitrary and up to opinion. if the idea is that it's unfair because you have to risk your health ingesting a substance then i think you could easily argue the standard way progamers practice for hours and hours a day to the detriment of physical health, proper sleep, social interaction, job skills, etc is also dangerous and not good for your health. why should some high GM ladder player be expected to make that kind of insane commitment to compete with the hardcore pros? that's just the world of competitive sports, it's demanding and unfair and can eat you alive, but you make sacrifices because you also get to play games for money. making a distinction between taking drugs and doing ridiculous practice regimens is honestly just alarmism and morality policing IMO. it comes from a nebulous fear of drugs as a big bad uncontrollable evil when really it's just a lifestyle choice. being a progamer at all is also a lifestyle choice not everyone would agree with, but if people are adults they can do what they want. and if they aren't adults their parents should be stepping in do i think taking powerful drugs to succeed in competition is a good idea, would i personally do it? no. but my morality doesn't dictate others' decisions. | ||
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HaRuHi
1220 Posts
On July 24 2015 06:41 brickrd wrote: "unfair" is totally arbitrary and up to opinion. if the idea is that it's unfair because you have to risk your health ingesting a substance then i think you could easily argue the standard way progamers practice for hours and hours a day to the detriment of physical health, proper sleep, social interaction, job skills, etc is also dangerous and not good for your health. why should some high GM ladder player be expected to make that kind of insane commitment to compete with the hardcore pros? that's just the world of competitive sports, it's demanding and unfair and can eat you alive, but you make sacrifices because you also get to play games for money. making a distinction between taking drugs and doing ridiculous practice regimens is honestly just alarmism and morality policing IMO. it comes from a nebulous fear of drugs as a big bad uncontrollable evil when really it's just a lifestyle choice. being a progamer at all is also a lifestyle choice not everyone would agree with, but if people are adults they can do what they want. and if they aren't adults their parents should be stepping in do i think taking powerful drugs to succeed in competition is a good idea, would i personally do it? no. but my morality doesn't dictate others' decisions. That is stuff for some pretty bad ass dystopian future, where before a promatch is started, super sexy babes walk into the player booths with trays, on the trays are needles and all sort of drugs, and they pick their poison. B-Teamers deciding to shortening their life by a good 20 years just to win that one game. Stephano took cocain, Qxc takes a look at the Dimethocaine but decides for the Quillivant XR in the last second. Meanwhile in the undercard match iNcontroL overdosed on Shabu, Naniwa who refused participation in the pre-game-consumption phase wins with his patented probe rush. | ||
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Luolis
Finland7164 Posts
On July 24 2015 06:41 brickrd wrote: "unfair" is totally arbitrary and up to opinion. if the idea is that it's unfair because you have to risk your health ingesting a substance then i think you could easily argue the standard way progamers practice for hours and hours a day to the detriment of physical health, proper sleep, social interaction, job skills, etc is also dangerous and not good for your health. why should some high GM ladder player be expected to make that kind of insane commitment to compete with the hardcore pros? that's just the world of competitive sports, it's demanding and unfair and can eat you alive, but you make sacrifices because you also get to play games for money. making a distinction between taking drugs and doing ridiculous practice regimens is honestly just alarmism and morality policing IMO. it comes from a nebulous fear of drugs as a big bad uncontrollable evil when really it's just a lifestyle choice. being a progamer at all is also a lifestyle choice not everyone would agree with, but if people are adults they can do what they want. and if they aren't adults their parents should be stepping in do i think taking powerful drugs to succeed in competition is a good idea, would i personally do it? no. but my morality doesn't dictate others' decisions. So what do you think about doping in sports then? A respectable and not unfair choice? fucking joke | ||
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
On July 24 2015 07:19 HaRuHi wrote: That is stuff for some pretty bad ass dystopian future, where before a promatch is started, super sexy babes walk into the player booths with trays, on the trays are needles and all sort of drugs, and they pick their poison. B-Teamers deciding to shortening their life by a good 20 years just to win that one game. Stephano took cocain, Qxc takes a look at the Dimethocaine but decides for the Quillivant XR in the last second. Meanwhile in the undercard match iNcontroL overdosed on Shabu, Naniwa who refused participation in the pre-game-consumption phase wins with his patented probe rush. Yeah. The reason drugs are banned in any competitive endeavor is the same reason why doctors don't (or rather, shouldn't) prescribe Adderall to anyone who asks. Drugs damage your body in proportion to the dose taken, and in their attempts to reach the perfect state of play and keep winning games progamers will invariably take hideous amounts of these potent chemicals and horribly damage themselves. The ones who don't will, barring a few miraculous players, be inevitably pushed out of the scene, and so we as spectators will be paying to watch young men and possibly young women ruin their bodies and minds irreversibly for our pleasure. Saying that it's a lifestyle choice is a red herring. There isn't any other lifestyle that can cause so much damage so quickly and so irrevocably, with the possible exception of American football, which is also quite heinous. This kind of logic can justify the return of gladiatorial arenas. Risking a stab in the gut is just a lifestyle choice, after all. | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On July 24 2015 07:32 Luolis wrote: So what do you think about doping in sports then? A respectable and not unfair choice? fucking joke i don't see where you got "respectable" from anything i said. i don't have to respect someone to respect their right to their own choices. i don't think doping is respectable, but i also don't think i have some bullshit moral authority over those who do it. it's a choice and a sacrifice, and i don't see what separates it from the same kind of sacrifices almost every competitor makes to excel. because "drugs are bad, mmkay?" come on, it's not the 1950s. if the sacrifice is a social life and 8 hours of sleep then ooh, he's so dedicated! he's so passionate about the game! but if it's a chemical then he's a junkie dopehead? it's just arbitrary morality policing and yes, same view for any sport, why would it be different? saying "fucking joke" isn't an argument, it just sounds like you can't handle someone disagreeing with you | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On July 24 2015 07:51 Acritter wrote: really? so ruining your sleep isn't causing damage with scientific articles coming out every day about how incredibly important sleep is? having no job skills and no friends isn't damage? i'm not saying this is every progamer but nor is everyone who dabbles in drugs a junkie burnout for the rest of their life. you're just generalizing based on social stereotypes about drug use. people make their own decisions and it's asinine to police them "for their health"Yeah. The reason drugs are banned in any competitive endeavor is the same reason why doctors don't (or rather, shouldn't) prescribe Adderall to anyone who asks. Drugs damage your body in proportion to the dose taken, and in their attempts to reach the perfect state of play and keep winning games progamers will invariably take hideous amounts of these potent chemicals and horribly damage themselves. The ones who don't will, barring a few miraculous players, be inevitably pushed out of the scene, and so we as spectators will be paying to watch young men and possibly young women ruin their bodies and minds irreversibly for our pleasure. Saying that it's a lifestyle choice is a red herring. There isn't any other lifestyle that can cause so much damage so quickly and so irrevocably, with the possible exception of American football, which is also quite heinous. This kind of logic can justify the return of gladiatorial arenas. Risking a stab in the gut is just a lifestyle choice, after all. educate people about drugs yes, parents control their kids behavior yes, tell adults what they're allowed to ingest before joining a competition no. asinine. | ||
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Ingvar
Russian Federation421 Posts
On July 24 2015 08:46 brickrd wrote: i don't see where you got "respectable" from anything i said. i don't have to respect someone to respect their right to their own choices. i don't think doping is respectable, but i also don't think i have some bullshit moral authority over those who do it. it's a choice and a sacrifice, and i don't see what separates it from the same kind of sacrifices almost every competitor makes to excel. because "drugs are bad, mmkay?" come on, it's not the 1950s. if the sacrifice is a social life and 8 hours of sleep then ooh, he's so dedicated! he's so passionate about the game! but if it's a chemical then he's a junkie dopehead? it's just arbitrary morality policing and yes, same view for any sport, why would it be different? saying "fucking joke" isn't an argument, it just sounds like you can't handle someone disagreeing with you When you allow perfomance enhancing drugs your competition turns from battle of exceptional sportsmen to battle of exceptional chemical laboratories. Personally, I don't see it as an entertaining one. | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On July 24 2015 08:55 Ingvar wrote: that's like saying football is a battle of who has the best weight training equipment. it's still a human playing and performing based on the thoughts in his brain. an adderall pill can't play starcraft o its own.When you allow perfomance enhancing drugs your competition turns from battle of exceptional sportsmen to battle of exceptional chemical laboratories. Personally, I don't see it as an entertaining one. you have every right to your moral stance, but to me you're just choosing not to enjoy something based on an unnecessary ethic. speak against it and try to stop it all you want, you're entitled, but the people who act like not caring is comparable to allowing rape and murder or something are just silly | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
It's about competetive integrity. | ||
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Larkin
United Kingdom7161 Posts
On July 24 2015 08:46 brickrd wrote: i don't see where you got "respectable" from anything i said. i don't have to respect someone to respect their right to their own choices. i don't think doping is respectable, but i also don't think i have some bullshit moral authority over those who do it. it's a choice and a sacrifice, and i don't see what separates it from the same kind of sacrifices almost every competitor makes to excel. because "drugs are bad, mmkay?" come on, it's not the 1950s. if the sacrifice is a social life and 8 hours of sleep then ooh, he's so dedicated! he's so passionate about the game! but if it's a chemical then he's a junkie dopehead? it's just arbitrary morality policing and yes, same view for any sport, why would it be different? saying "fucking joke" isn't an argument, it just sounds like you can't handle someone disagreeing with you I don't think many people are against it on a moral authority basis or a "drugs are bad k" basis. People are against one side gaining a competitive edge by virtue of their taking drugs while the others that don't take drugs fall behind. The playing field should be level. It's like playing with an extra hand. Training regimens etc are one thing, practicing more etc is down to the player/his coaching staff etc. But as I said earlier, two players of equal skill facing off, if one has taken Aderall/speed/meth/coke/whatever it can give him the edge to win. | ||
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
as i see it drugs alter your body's chemistry drastically, and more easily than habits (i.e. poor sleeping, poor diet, poor exercise). in that sense, it's not fair to simply compare 'this guy endures X to practice more' to 'this guy endures Y to take more drugs' -- here X might be sleep, and Y might be damage the drugs do to your body Y is much greater than X in terms of chemical effect *perhaps* 1 month of poor sleeping (X) will do more damage than 1 dose of some drug (Y), but then we are changing the time frames. | ||
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CAG Husker
United States117 Posts
As far as competitive advantage and integrity goes, it's obvious that SC is extremely mental in nature, but I don't see how focusing harder gives you an edge. I think it's hugely personal, some people welcome distractions to get out of their own head and the crowd hypes them up. Others likely want to do nothing but focus and if that's what they want then I believe that's what they should aim for whether it be through drugs or meditation or some shit. Another particular for me is that there are so few players at this elite level and I would be sad to see any of the competition go due to their usage habits being cracked down on. | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
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awu25
United States2003 Posts
On July 24 2015 08:46 brickrd wrote: i don't see where you got "respectable" from anything i said. i don't have to respect someone to respect their right to their own choices. i don't think doping is respectable, but i also don't think i have some bullshit moral authority over those who do it. it's a choice and a sacrifice, and i don't see what separates it from the same kind of sacrifices almost every competitor makes to excel. because "drugs are bad, mmkay?" come on, it's not the 1950s. if the sacrifice is a social life and 8 hours of sleep then ooh, he's so dedicated! he's so passionate about the game! but if it's a chemical then he's a junkie dopehead? it's just arbitrary morality policing and yes, same view for any sport, why would it be different? saying "fucking joke" isn't an argument, it just sounds like you can't handle someone disagreeing with you Many professional athletes are looked upon by younger generations. PEDs and drugs are banned because they don't want kids looking up to their idols and thinking it's okay to do the same thing. That's why marijuana is a bannable offense in the NFL. It doesn't help the players' on the field performance, but it sets a bad example for younger kids. | ||
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TRaFFiC
Canada1448 Posts
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Nacl(Draq)
United States302 Posts
The only thing that should occur is that if a player is tested and they are found to have a drug in their system they show a prescription, not required to tell them for what diagnosis or anything else. That way we know the individual knows the risks and how to take the medication because hopefully their doctor explained that to them. | ||
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killerrj8
Germany9 Posts
On July 24 2015 09:00 brickrd wrote: an adderall pill can't play starcraft o its own. Congrats! You just found the reason why taking drugs is even worse than just practicing alone. | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On July 24 2015 12:47 awu25 wrote: so you police their private lives? again, it's a sporting competition, they aren't parents. kids HAVE parents to deal with this kind of thing. children are going to know about drugs one way or another through school, the internet, etc. blaming athletes or gamers is absolutely pathetic parenting and anyone who does it shouldn't have kids at allMany professional athletes are looked upon by younger generations. PEDs and drugs are banned because they don't want kids looking up to their idols and thinking it's okay to do the same thing. That's why marijuana is a bannable offense in the NFL. It doesn't help the players' on the field performance, but it sets a bad example for younger kids. | ||
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
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