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On April 06 2011 10:17 catamorphist wrote:
Don't make rules you can't or won't enforce. I think that mandatory drug testing would not be worth the modicum of fairness it would provide -- it's a pain in the ass, costs money, and risks drama -- and without that, it's unenforceable.
This. Enforcing a rule like this is going to be a nightmare (do you really think that there are no gamers with ADD?), and it's not a good thing to have rules that are impossible to enforce, even if the intentions behind them are good.
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On April 06 2011 13:25 Golgotha wrote:
what exactly did TT1 say? may we know? concerning his past background I am skeptical...
i didnt say anything, me and the OP were having this conversation about PED's on fenix's stream and i suggested him to make a thread on TL so we can get everyones opinion on the matter, i never said anything about gsl rofl
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Strongly believe this needs a bump, my post is above...
EDIT: GSL was an odd stretch (thanks TT1), but the issue still remains as to how we decide to create what we want to call a sport. Will we allow what amounts to doping to propel our sport, or will we let ability take over?
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How exactly do you prove that the drug in question actually provides an unfair advantage.
SC2 is about decision making and brain powah!!, the drug may assist one person and totally wreck another player given how that person reacts to it.
It's not like it allows the body or muscles to do things a human normally couldn't which can easily be tested and proven.
Do professional Chess players get tested for mental stimulants?
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This is pretty unenforceable, is gsl, mlg, or nasl supposed to start giving their players urine tests? What about players that have legitimate prescriptions for adderall or ritalin (it's not exactly uncommon, particularly in the US). I can think of 2 friends of mine that take adderall. Are those people banned from competition? The whole thing kind of leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
On the other hand, people take stimulants all the time (caffeine anyone), it's culturally engrained virtually everywhere. Adderall is probably on another level from that but I have no firsthand experience so it's hard to say.
Larger tournaments aside, with all the tournaments going on now, primarily online events, it might be something that we're just going to have to speculate happens rarely and hope it has a minimal to negligible impact
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I used to take medicine for ADD and a panic disorder. If I wasn't allowed to take any of my medicine before something as nerve racking as a big event game before I had my panic disorder and ADD under control like I do now, I would be a terrible mess. While some people may take these kinds of pills to boost concentration ect who shouldn't take them, there are a lot of us who have and still do take them because we use them to help us combat actual issues and symptoms that come with disorders. You're heart is in the right place but such a rule could never realistically be enforced.
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You need to work on your usage of bold, italics and underlines.
Also, where are your sources? You come here with your first post on this forum and just announce to use that high-profile players are taking adderall with absolutely nothing to back up your claims.
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I know that OGRE1 and ORGE2 always did a lot of adderal before MLG events.. heard that from someone who was actually on their team at one point. so I wouldnt doubt that its happening, and it will continue. Its pretty easy to get a prescription anyway.
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For E Sports, you really can't test this. We're not going to be taking random drug tests and forcing our players to pee into cups or submit to blood tests. But there should definitely be legislation stating that anyone caught doing it will be suspended then banned. It's not good for you (even if it isn't necessarily bad) and it gives you an unfair advantage.
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i voted no, i dont really like the idea and i think it only causes people to abuse the drugs without actually needing them. I would prefer there was some kind of drug testing but this point in e-sports life im afraid its very unlikely we will get any kind of rules against this stuff; especially since some top players (definitely not a norm) are taking some kinds of things like aderral or adderall to help their play.
this is coming from some1 who has had, and will continue to have huge nerve issues
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Yes we (especially you HuK) should stick to T-John's advice and just drink a lot of milk.
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You need to watch documentary movie "Frag" 63 min.
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What are the cognitive effects of stimulant medications? Emphasis on adults with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) by Claire Advokat. From the Journal of Neuroscience and Biobehavioral Reviews. doi: doi:10.1016/j.neubiorev.2010.03.006
Abstract: The relevant literature concerning cognitive effects of amphetamine and methylphenidate, was reviewed, with an emphasis on research conducted in adults diagnosed with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder. As first-line treatment for ADHD, stimulant drugs are well-known to improve attention and concentration. Yet, there is increasing evidence that (as with children and adolescents), they do not promote learning and academic achievement in adult college students with ADHD. A review of neuropsychological studies indicates that, although response latencies are reduced, performance of ADHD adults on tests of ‘distractibility’ and ‘planning’ is also not consistently improved by stimulants. Studies in non-ADHD adults suggest that stimulants do not promote acquisition of new information, might improve retention of previously acquired information, and facilitate memory consolidation, but may actually impair performance of tasks that require adaptation, flexibility and planning. It is still not clear if improvement only occurs when there is a baseline deficit. Stimulants may influence cognition by their effects on physiological arousal. Regardless, the evidence does not support the conclusion that stimulants are cognitive enhancers.
You cannot call them performance enhancing drugs until you demonstrate that they actually enhance performance. The current evidence suggests that these drugs will have a negative impact on performance in a game like Starcraft 2. First Person Shooters on the other hand may well benefit from their use.
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interview with a famous SC2 pro
woo!
laughs
Woo! WOO!
how do you feel ?
Woo really good I feel good I feel tired and good and I am going to do really well
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I can't imagine that taking drugs like Adderall would give you the same sort of performance enhancement that steroids would give to an athlete. Nevertheless I still don't think that they should be allowed to be used in tournaments just to keep everything as level a playing field as possible.
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This all seems a little silly. Everyone is blowing this out of proportion. This ISNT the same thing as steroids in sports or how old school sports was ripe with drug use *ahem baseball in the early 19th century*
From what I've seen from having a little brother who took aderrall AS well as being an avid FPS gamer. I saw 0 difference in him performance while gaming.. when you are big into gaming usually you have no issues actually concentrating.. so this really seems not like an actual performance enhancing drug.
A good note also is that there are many stimulants in the world.. the most abused drug in existence is completely legal (and happens to have many sponsors in the gaming world herp derp) which is caffeine which really we shouldn't be opening up that can of worms (personally i say let people do whatever they want with whatever the hell they want, its your life to screw up, we really dont have to spend money trying to inhibit drug use... but again thats a completely diff issue)
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I have ADD pretty badly.
When taking my ritalin, yes it helps with mutlitasking and not daydreaming in the middle of a game.
Drawback: My hands get very shaky, and it becomes more difficult to accurately control my mouse cursor. I find it hurts more than it helps. If i practice enough, I can execute a BO without ritalin and still have the calm/control needed to micro. If I'm all jacked up on ritalin/adderal i can't position my army quickly enough for it to matter in an epic showdown.
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On April 06 2011 14:58 sc14s wrote:
This all seems a little silly. Everyone is blowing this out of proportion. This ISNT the same thing as steroids in sports or how old school sports was ripe with drug use *ahem baseball in the early 19th century*
From what I've seen from having a little brother who took aderrall AS well as being an avid FPS gamer. I saw 0 difference in him performance while gaming.. when you are big into gaming usually you have no issues actually concentrating.. so this really seems not like an actual performance enhancing drug.
A good note also is that there are many stimulants in the world.. the most abused drug in existence is completely legal (and happens to have many sponsors in the gaming world herp derp) which is caffeine which really we shouldn't be opening up that can of worms (personally i say let people do whatever they want with whatever the hell they want, its your life to screw up, we really dont have to spend money trying to inhibit drug use... but again thats a completely diff issue)
the real reason that it is an advantage in SC2 tourneys is that it will keep you 100% awake and alert for 8 plus hours
its not going to make you play any better but you will have a distinct advantage over those people are are getting mentally exhausted
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On April 06 2011 15:01 ShooTouts wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2011 14:58 sc14s wrote:
This all seems a little silly. Everyone is blowing this out of proportion. This ISNT the same thing as steroids in sports or how old school sports was ripe with drug use *ahem baseball in the early 19th century*
From what I've seen from having a little brother who took aderrall AS well as being an avid FPS gamer. I saw 0 difference in him performance while gaming.. when you are big into gaming usually you have no issues actually concentrating.. so this really seems not like an actual performance enhancing drug.
A good note also is that there are many stimulants in the world.. the most abused drug in existence is completely legal (and happens to have many sponsors in the gaming world herp derp) which is caffeine which really we shouldn't be opening up that can of worms (personally i say let people do whatever they want with whatever the hell they want, its your life to screw up, we really dont have to spend money trying to inhibit drug use... but again thats a completely diff issue) the real reason that it is an advantage in SC2 tourneys is that it will keep you 100% awake and alert for 8 plus hours its not going to make you play any better but you will have a distinct advantage over those people are are getting mentally exhausted
However, just because you don't feel tired doesn't mean your performance isn't equally as shitty (or worse) as fatigue otherwise might make it.
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I think the use of drugs to influence one's mental state is absolutely fine. You, nor I, nor anyone can tell a person what kind of perspective they want to have.
The argument that a psychoactive drug is "performance enhancing" is faulty. Do we allow our players to drink coffee before tournaments? What about Marijuana? If they smoked in the last two weeks, they might test positive. What about Marijuana - right before the match? For some that would be a handicap. For me, I focus better with it.
It's fair if you let everyone do it, and some people would always perform worse under the influence of drugs while some would always perform better. Unless some proof can be shown that adderall or any other drug actually enhances performance beyond making someone "feel" in their comfort zone, I don't see what the problem is.
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EPT
