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On January 09 2011 20:53 ChThoniC wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 18:14 pfods wrote:On January 09 2011 18:06 ChThoniC wrote:
If your WPM is below 50, there's no way you can reach 200 apm in SC2.
There are many, many people who can't type 50 wpm... I think average is like 35? Of course I imagine the average SC2 player is higher, but still, 200 is inaccessible to the majority of the population. That's misleading. WPM usually takes things like proper punctuation and capitalization into effect. You can very easily type 50 words a minute, or at the very least have the speed to do so, without actually making it very fast on one of those tests. Because I don't need to know how to spell anesthesiologist correctly on the first go when I'm bouncing between my hatcheries making drones. Since when do WPM tests use anesthesiologist-type words? I'm about 90 WPM and 140 APM, so I obviously can improve my speed in SC2... But if someone has 30 WPM, it's hard to imagine that their hands are fast enough to handle 200 APM.
If someone has 30 WPM then he can also improvie his WPM, right?
I don't think WPM has much to do with apm.
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On January 09 2011 21:03 Alpina wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 20:53 ChThoniC wrote:On January 09 2011 18:14 pfods wrote:On January 09 2011 18:06 ChThoniC wrote:
If your WPM is below 50, there's no way you can reach 200 apm in SC2.
There are many, many people who can't type 50 wpm... I think average is like 35? Of course I imagine the average SC2 player is higher, but still, 200 is inaccessible to the majority of the population. That's misleading. WPM usually takes things like proper punctuation and capitalization into effect. You can very easily type 50 words a minute, or at the very least have the speed to do so, without actually making it very fast on one of those tests. Because I don't need to know how to spell anesthesiologist correctly on the first go when I'm bouncing between my hatcheries making drones. Since when do WPM tests use anesthesiologist-type words? I'm about 90 WPM and 140 APM, so I obviously can improve my speed in SC2... But if someone has 30 WPM, it's hard to imagine that their hands are fast enough to handle 200 APM. If someone has 30 WPM then he can also improvie his WPM, right? I don't think WPM has much to do with apm.
I'm just saying, typing speed is a good proxy for SC2 speed. It's easier to type quickly than to SC2 quickly, because typing uses minimal though, and playing SC2 uses a lot of brain power. I don't think anyone has more APM than letters per minute in typing...
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On January 09 2011 05:40 B.I.G. wrote:
you can convince me that 200 apm is all sensible moves. that would mean more then 3 decisions per second. i dont think the human brain works that fast. in other words: the pro's just spam as hell as well.
Your sooooo wrong... when you get to that level everything that your doing in sc2 isn't even in the head of a pro his fingers are already doing them. I don't even know i'm injecting making drones and taking my 3rd I just am, The only thing I'm concerned about is unit positioning and where to transition my build to counter my opponent. If the game is standard I make very little decisions it's
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Since everyone uses 2 hands on the keyboard when typing, I guess typing speed with 1 hand becomes more interesting/relevant. A good typist should feel pretty confident in accuracy with letters and quickly hitting letters. However, I do feel weary at times of trying to hit certain numbers super quickly. I think the goal should be to be able to play without any kind of hesitation when it comes to keying anything. I don't know if I'm there, yet.
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On January 09 2011 21:35 Whomp wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 05:40 B.I.G. wrote:
you can convince me that 200 apm is all sensible moves. that would mean more then 3 decisions per second. i dont think the human brain works that fast. in other words: the pro's just spam as hell as well. Your sooooo wrong... when you get to that level everything that your doing in sc2 isn't even in the head of a pro his fingers are already doing them. I don't even know i'm injecting making drones and taking my 3rd I just am, The only thing I'm concerned about is unit positioning and where to transition my build to counter my opponent. If the game is standard I make very little decisions it's
exactly. a TON of my apm comes from stuff i sometimes i dont even fully realize im doing. checking status / locations of hotkeyed units/buildings, macro etc just happen.
i dont think "oh seems like i half a second time to macro during this fight! lets do it!" . i just hammer the sequence whenever my hands feel like there is a bit of freetime.
this applies to tons of stuff and this is a big reason why practice ,expirience,mechanics and knowledge are so important in sc2. because a ton of stuff will just happen without you actually having to think about it increasing your speed,efficiency and giving you more time to multitask or think over the current situation and plan stuff.
also dont forget that tons of actions are done because of one "decision". look at a basic situation like im fighting a P army early with roach/ling. its only one decision that i want to surround his stalkers/sentrys with my lings and have my roaches engaging the zeals at the front. but this simple plan requires TONS of clicks.
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Anyone who voted "Anyone should be able to break 200apm" needs to read:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163299
or
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=178095
Your view of the world is very limited, and really needs to be expanded.
The "average" person" is doesn't mean ignoring anyone with a physical handicap. Many, many people in various walks of life had limitations in some way or another. "Average" means the middle ground of the most and least capable, ending somewhere in the middle.
Most people would consider me an "average" person unless they were told otherwise, or lived with me. Yet, that's far from the truth when it comes to gaming.
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On November 30 2010 09:57 Snuggles wrote:
If you're familiar with Gunz The Duel, the average player tends to keep a constant 300 APM without even thinking about it. Upwards of 600 isn't unusual for an intense fight =D
How's that APM for ya !
Yeah but to execute one 'butterfly' move you use how many? 6-7 button mashes. And you do the same thing over and over. That is mostly about muscle memory (mashing the buttons quickly and in correct order) and could be considered as one select+move in SC or 4sd. In SC you need to think more about what you're doing since there are way more options and way more things to look for.
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On January 10 2011 00:32 Bumblebees wrote:
The "average" person" is doesn't mean ignoring anyone with a physical handicap. Many, many people in various walks of life had limitations in some way or another. "Average" means the middle ground of the most and least capable, ending somewhere in the middle.
Most people would consider me an "average" person unless they were told otherwise, or lived with me. Yet, that's far from the truth when it comes to gaming.
Which is why you are considered an exception to "Average person". Because of your disorder(s), you fall below the median line of performance. The definition of average is the middle ground of most capable and least capable, which means a person with no glaring disorders and no immense advantages. You have a glaring disorder, which directly effects your gameplay thus throwing you out of the average bracket.
If a person has to overcome a physical condition in order to perform at the median, they obviously fall into the "some people who can't physically reach 200 APM" category. Don't get me wrong, I have great admiration for what you have accomplished, but the only reason I have said admiration for your skills is because you are not average. It really seems as if you are trying to put yourself into the "Average" demographic for the sole purpose of being insulted...
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On January 09 2011 18:06 ChThoniC wrote:
If your WPM is below 50, there's no way you can reach 200 apm in SC2.
There are many, many people who can't type 50 wpm... I think average is like 35? Of course I imagine the average SC2 player is higher, but still, 200 is inaccessible to the majority of the population.
Average gamer is around 50-60 wpm, I believe. Average of 35 is for like... everyone (including adults who only started using computers in their 30's).
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I would argue at least a quarter of a pro's APM at any given time is useless APM.
So a pro at 200 "useful" APM probably has something like 260 APM.
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IdrA plays SC2 at like 140-160 average.... were did you get this "200+" from?
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On January 10 2011 01:53 Fa1nT wrote:
IdrA plays SC2 at like 140-160 average.... were did you get this "200+" from?
What idra has to do with this thread? 
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On January 10 2011 01:44 sjschmidt93 wrote:
I would argue at least a quarter of a pro's APM at any given time is useless APM.
So a pro at 200 "useful" APM probably has something like 260 APM.
200 EAPM is really quite alot. The best in BW play with around 250 EAPM and around 350-400 APM.
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People really doubt the speed of hands and muscle memory. I'm a musician, so I'm used to this. But really technique should not hold anyone back. You probably just don't want to actually practice the repetitive motion. I can tongue at 560 articulations/minute. That's what? Almost 10 articulations/second? It's because I worked it up to that speed though. I can't pull that off unless I work it up.
Albeit that's a pretty fast single-tongue, but honestly look at your WPM sometimes and you realize you can pull off insanely fast, complicated, and precise motions with your hands. Physical limitations are not worth mentioning. And it's really just because you do them over and over and over and over...
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On January 10 2011 01:35 Fingulfin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 00:32 Bumblebees wrote:
The "average" person" is doesn't mean ignoring anyone with a physical handicap. Many, many people in various walks of life had limitations in some way or another. "Average" means the middle ground of the most and least capable, ending somewhere in the middle.
Most people would consider me an "average" person unless they were told otherwise, or lived with me. Yet, that's far from the truth when it comes to gaming. Which is why you are considered an exception to "Average person". Because of your disorder(s), you fall below the median line of performance. The definition of average is the middle ground of most capable and least capable, which means a person with no glaring disorders and no immense advantages. You have a glaring disorder, which directly effects your gameplay thus throwing you out of the average bracket. If a person has to overcome a physical condition in order to perform at the median, they obviously fall into the "some people who can't physically reach 200 APM" category. Don't get me wrong, I have great admiration for what you have accomplished, but the only reason I have said admiration for your skills is because you are not average. It really seems as if you are trying to put yourself into the "Average" demographic for the sole purpose of being insulted...
I wasn't talking specifically about myself, and I'm certainly not insulted! :D
My point was that there are many people who are perfectly capable in many ways who may have a limitation in another way. Only considering people who are perfectly fine as 'average' seems to exclude a very large part of the population.
I see it as being a poll that essentially asks "Can anyone get 200apm? Oh, and please don't consider people who can't physically reach 200apm."
That seems rather silly and unproductive to me to have a discussion around.
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200 APM is pretty low coming from BW lol.
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On January 09 2011 20:53 ChThoniC wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 18:14 pfods wrote:On January 09 2011 18:06 ChThoniC wrote:
If your WPM is below 50, there's no way you can reach 200 apm in SC2.
There are many, many people who can't type 50 wpm... I think average is like 35? Of course I imagine the average SC2 player is higher, but still, 200 is inaccessible to the majority of the population. That's misleading. WPM usually takes things like proper punctuation and capitalization into effect. You can very easily type 50 words a minute, or at the very least have the speed to do so, without actually making it very fast on one of those tests. Because I don't need to know how to spell anesthesiologist correctly on the first go when I'm bouncing between my hatcheries making drones. Since when do WPM tests use anesthesiologist-type words? I'm about 90 WPM and 140 APM, so I obviously can improve my speed in SC2... But if someone has 30 WPM, it's hard to imagine that their hands are fast enough to handle 200 APM.
A lot of WPM tests take proper spelling into account and proper punctuation and all that, so if you miss a comma it adjusts your score for having to correct it, etc. Any human being on the planet that can type without looking at the keyboard can type 50 words per minute. it's really not at all hard to do especially when you aren't reading something to type but making it up on your own to type. WPM is a very arbitrary thing to use as an example of what your APM will be.
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When I think of "200 useful Actions Per Minute", I think of somebody who can play the game at very close to a semi-pro capacity, if not professionally. So if the question is whether anybody should be able to do that, the answer is no.
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1900D terran here. I have alot of experience with fighting games in tournaments, and i have amazing finger dexterity because of it. My current apm is about 190-220 per game for 26min game +. Its like if im not moving that fast it feels like im leaving alot out of my game and not play efficiently. to each there own though.
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Anybody can spam click with your mouse up to 500 apm.
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EPT
