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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
Well i think everyone can have a apm over 200 (sc2 that means like 280 real) without problem In 300 games ~ apm myself is like 300apm (sc2apm) And i dont feel i push myself to hard, with train i cant see anyone dont reach this BUT an older person ... jaeh its possible that players over 30 years or without any rts past cant reach this. | ||
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DESOUL
Moldova40 Posts
But lets take me for example, i started SC2 around 2 weeks ago, your standart little noobie with 20~30 APM and i tought i was hot smack at the time. But gradually over the past few weeks my APM increased to 50 while playing continously, then after to 60~70~80~90 and now i'm at 100 APM roughly. And thats after just two weeks of progress and i still think that i'm pretty slow and could go faster. All in all 150 apm isn't hard to achieve, you just have to play alot and keep your hands warmed up ;o | ||
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simme123
Sweden810 Posts
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s4m222
United States272 Posts
If you go to a piano, click one key with your right hand. And spam 2-4 keys with your left. Whatever that gets you lol. Some people just have much more dexterity in their hand. My friend could spam 500 apm easily. Myself at max spam is like 400. And this is not even trying to do anything, JUST spamming. Most people like have enough dexterity to play at a pro level, if they practiced. Some people can play at near that APM at least without much trouble | ||
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kingdoop
United States24 Posts
I used to be an aspiring bw player back in 2001-2002. I would play crazy hours each day just forcing myself mechanically to be as fast as possible. I ended up floating around 200 as my average. I was 12-13 and what was really limiting my play was the mental aspects of the game. 8 years of FPS gaming later SC2 gets released and now I play with teammates for fun when we aren't practicing other games. I seem to get stuck at a ceiling and it is rather low less than 100 apm average, with 150-200 peak I am quite confused on what is causing this as mentally I think very fast. I have always excelled at online gaming and been one of those "clutch" type players. I also take your typical science/engineering courses which lead to a very busy mind. I have narrowed it down to a few things: WASD hand placement - After thousands of hours of WASD it feels very very very unnatural to have my fingers anywhere else Cherry MX Black Switches - I love the feel of these when I am playing other games, but for SC2 and typing they just require so much force compared to a typical rubber dome keyboard. Fatigue - I am not in nearly as good shape as I was when I was 12-13. I am no longer playing sports and eating healthy. The busy/sleep deprived lifestyle of a college student has really taken a toll. Most of the time, by the time I am able to start relaxing by playing SC2 I have normally been busy for 10-12 hours mentally. I really noticed this fatigue when I was preparing for a lan tournament in November. Playing 6-8 hours a day along with all the other hassles of college really hurts you mentally in your sharpness. I noticed it in my strat calling towards the end of practice and especially in sc2 when I played it. I really think ergonomics, keyboard, and fatigue are the biggest limiting factors for myself, and I think other people might be having the same issues I have. | ||
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iloveav
Poland1478 Posts
I have had in some games in sc2 apm over 500, and not exactly spaming, just trying to be everywhere at once and not missing a beat. Peaks are possible even at 800+ in sc2 on faster so the real apm? dunno but dont forget apm is actually calculated at peak points not by real apm but by how fast you press the next 1-2 keys. I belive anything above 300 is overkill, but practicing with an apm higher that that does set your momentum for a much more agile game. However this should be only practiced in UMS, as for the first 20 games that apm will totally destroy anyones gameplan unless you are already used to that speed. Kingdop, its not like that, SC2 is a lot less APM requireing than sc:bw. In sc bw if my apm nowdays drops under 200 i know im missing things, in sc2, 120 is more than enought. Its a mental block from playing sc2 the way it is supposed to be played. | ||
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Foxt
Belize181 Posts
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ApocAlypsE007
Israel1007 Posts
how do i turn it into an effective apm? all the people here say that practice makes perfect. but how to practice this? i can instinctively build workers, train units, build buildings but after the 10 min mark i cant keep an effective apm and when i try to multitask i feel like im juggling too many balls. how i can practice to improve it?? | ||
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morimacil
France921 Posts
i try to multitask i feel like im juggling too many balls. how i can practice to improve it?? What a nice comparison, an actual good one for once! Its the same as juggling. If you pick up 6 balls, and never juggled before, then its really impossible. If you never juggled before, just with 3 is going to be enough of a challenge. but as you practise, it becomes less and less of a challenge, and instead, more of an automation, based on muscle memory, where you dont actually have to focus on where the balls are, and instead, can even do it with your eyes closed. as you add on extra balls, you are not really actually focusing on new things, you are doing the same things, except faster. The movements stay the same, and once they have been automated, are just faster. In SC, its going to be the same thing. you wanna drop while macroing. When you wanna drop in 7 places at once, and still macro, you arent doing anything new, that requires extra focus, if you practiced enough that the mechanics of macro and drops have become automatic, you are then still doing the exact same thing, macroing and dropping, but faster. Adding on an extra drop, is the same as adding on an extra ball. First, you do it with a few, until you are comfortable with that. Then you keep on doing it with a few, until you are no longer just comfortable, but now can do it without actually looking much at the screen, and can instead shift your focus away from these tasks that are nearly automatic. In juggling, that means you can now do it while drunk, or with your eyes closed, or both, and it doesnt matter. In SC, that could mean you can do it while watching TV, and talking to a friend  Once you can do that, you add an extra ball. Drop in one more place, while still doing the rest. No extra focus, just the same thing as before, a bit faster. practice that until its comfortable, then keep practising until its easy, and automatic. And then add on an extra ball. Thats how you get to juggle with 10 balls. Not by picking up all 10, and trying it out, but by being comfortable with 9, and moving up a step. Same thing with drops. And hey, when you try to do it too fast, 1 ball can fly off, or not be caught properly, and so on, it wasnt automatic enough, you messed it up, it now needs more attention, and everything falls appart. | ||
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noD
2230 Posts
I actually cant believe July and Leenock play that well being that fat (and I am fat) | ||
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iloveav
Poland1478 Posts
Assuming it is a SC2, both play terran. Both make same units and same number of production facilities. Meet in center to micro. While you micro make things in your base. There is no winner here, your goal: high apm+win micro in center. (micro should ONLY be done by same units, example 12 rine vs 12 rine, 3 mara+1 tank vs 3 mara+1 tank.... I hope you get the idea. Once you do that correctly, you play more complex games: anything off 1 base. Once you do that correctly, you play more complex games: anything off 2 base. then you watch reps, and play no rules at all with your friend. Now you might be thinking, OMG thats a lot of games! Its about 30 games per step, far less than you will need if you played normal ladder games. (IMPORTANT!, in early stages of this training, you MUST always fight same units vs same units) | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On January 13 2011 01:11 iloveav wrote: apocalypse, if you want a 400 apm to be effective there is a very easy way: First get a friend to help you. Assuming it is a SC2, both play terran. Both make same units and same number of production facilities. Meet in center to micro. While you micro make things in your base. There is no winner here, your goal: high apm+win micro in center. (micro should ONLY be done by same units, example 12 rine vs 12 rine, 3 mara+1 tank vs 3 mara+1 tank.... I hope you get the idea. Once you do that correctly, you play more complex games: anything off 1 base. Once you do that correctly, you play more complex games: anything off 2 base. then you watch reps, and play no rules at all with your friend. Now you might be thinking, OMG thats a lot of games! Its about 30 games per step, far less than you will need if you played normal ladder games. (IMPORTANT!, in early stages of this training, you MUST always fight same units vs same units) Why would you need to play same units against same units, if anything playing a matchup at a disadvantage would be more helpful in the long run | ||
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Touch
Canada475 Posts
On November 30 2010 10:50 Pudge_172 wrote: Rofl! Senior league :DI'm almost 44 years old and am a Bronze player. I can hit 250APM when I get an adrenaline rush during a battle or know a big battle is about to take place, but no way can I sustain it. I can't even sustain 100 APM for longer than a minute or two. Most of the time I'm in the 40 APM for a game. My last game was 33:25 and I ended up at 40APM with Protoss. The highest APM in a game was 58 APM as Zerg. I do think I could work my way up to 75 APM if I could play 15 games EVERY day. However, I don't have the time to do that consistently. The more I play during a day the higher my APM goes. Senior Circuit for SC2??? I think all the average Joes can hit 200 apm no problem, and maintain 100 ish apm if you are physically healthy. What I want to know is how the f to maintain that stamina. If I spam more than 250, my hands get tired (anyone else?), and could possibly cramp up after a minute or so. How those pro gamers do it, is a wonder. | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On January 12 2011 19:48 s4m222 wrote: YES there is a cap. If you go to a piano, click one key with your right hand. And spam 2-4 keys with your left. Whatever that gets you lol. Some people just have much more dexterity in their hand. My friend could spam 500 apm easily. Myself at max spam is like 400. And this is not even trying to do anything, JUST spamming. Most people like have enough dexterity to play at a pro level, if they practiced. Some people can play at near that APM at least without much trouble No, this isn't accurate. You aren't practicing this over and over again. Repetitive motions is how your muscles learn to do things quickly. You can't do anything up to full speed and accuracy without constant repetition. You may also find muscle and placement tricks to allow you to move faster. People aren't virtuoso pianists because they can play fast. It's because of all the nuance-y stuff that pianists do along with playing fast. Playing fast isn't nearly as exceptional. On January 12 2011 20:37 Foxt wrote: Why are you guys still debating about that? I have already said, that APM has nothing to do with physical ability to click buttons, it is about mental checklist. This is a great way to think about it. There is no way you are going to be able to max out the physical ability without being unable to think that quickly. Your thoughts and thinking are very slow. Your cerebellum and muscle memory are extremely fast, assuming you are practicing and are constantly keeping your muscles doing repetitive motion. | ||
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iloveav
Poland1478 Posts
sure your style and unit prduction will change but this allows you to get high apm first then train how u use it. It is very important to be able to know WHEN to stop micro and start macro, this will be very easy in sc2 compared to sc1 as you can jsut use hotkeys but still u will need to do pylons/depots. | ||
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zylog
Canada943 Posts
1. Try to eliminate any superfluous actions from the task. 2. Try to minimize the reliance on mouse accuracy needed. There is something called Fitt's law, where when you move faster with pointing actions, the amount of visual feedback coming back in to help guide your movement is fixed so your accuracy decreases. Ideally, you would eliminate these factors through better hotkey usage. An example would be putting guys on gas at my 3rd/4th base. Instead of catching 3 workers inside my selection box (which requires me to watch more carefully, I roughly select 6+ workers, click on a geyser, deselect 3, click the other geyser, deselect 3 and send the rest back to mining. This requires more actions but can be executed quickly with less attention paid to the screen. Now once you've figured how to do a specific task, you practice it until it chunks itself into 1 action mentally. I think specific drilling of this can be of benefit, you progressive perform the same sequence starting at a low speed and then speeding it up. The goal is to be able to perform certain specific tasks at 200, 300 400 + apm. Then, go ahead and do this for all tasks in the game. As you get quicker at many tasks, you'll recognize what is slowing you down the most, so you can work on that next. The other side of things is recognizing what tasks need to be done and prioritizing them in your checklist. This too can be optimized, though the limits here are cognitive rather than psycho motor in nature. | ||
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Eeryck
United States184 Posts
I am currently in the 80 APM average range. But looking at the APM graph in SC2gears it shows something very insightful about my play. When I am in a macro cycle for terran my 4ss5aadd6s7dd my APM spikes to about 250 because for that time I am pressing the keys very quickly to get my macro completed. Then when that is finished and I start to think again about what is next in my plan. I have not practiced it enough for it to be automatic my APM falls to 10-15 for a period. But then I I check my production 4567 boom 250 APM Uhhhh move army? 10-15 APM If my plan were better for both building buildings and controlling army, then I will see my effective average APM rise. This is also happening. Not long ago I was 30 APM, then I started to build units without thinking and it jumped to 50, now I am able to place buildings w/o much thought and that got me to 80. Starting to control my army better w/o thinking about it so much will probably push me up another 20-30 APM. Then look at SC2gears some more, what actions are you slow at, where does your APM drop. Repeating this over and over again will get you to average 200+ effective APM if you are committed to it. You can't improve if you don't know where you are lacking. | ||
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gr8ape
Canada302 Posts
Theyre not, its called spam | ||
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NewbieOne
Poland560 Posts
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