EPTPhysical APM Cap? - Page 6
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CKone
United Kingdom50 Posts
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NewbieOne
Poland560 Posts
Could be because I've almost never spammed. No click-selecting buildings in the beginning, no clicking every pixel on the move path etc. So I don't get to warmp up like those dudes who start off spamming but are in the right mode when when they do need to do stuff. I have a fine motorics impairment in my dominant hand plus something to do with coordination, same thing that destroys my handwriting, and tend to be useless at sports. So I probably have some handicap where it matters. I don't think I'm ever going to exceed 100 average (perhaps 75 in my top form at War3). | ||
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Foxt
Belize181 Posts
APM is not up to humans physical abilites, it is about mental checklist and and memory. Everyone can spam keyboard 300 times per minute, but not so many can remember to do certain complex things 300 times per minute. If you remember to do all things you need to do in every second, your hands will immediately or after slight practise follow your brain and make that 300 apm to happen. 200-300 apm usually is possible only after multiple bases and in that stage it is hard to remember everything. Everything over 150 apm in one base is just faking. Sure you can spam your keyboard for nothing, but it does not contribute your game play. | ||
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shinogi
United Kingdom45 Posts
EDIT: Foxt has said the same thing above. | ||
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BluzMan
Russian Federation4235 Posts
http://play.typeracer.com/ Just change the WPM to CPM after a race and you will see the right number. This is your keyboard handicap, and it can be improved pretty fast. Mouse is a bit harder, but totalling 200 with both is nothing special. | ||
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emythrel
United Kingdom2599 Posts
On November 30 2010 09:23 Stenstyren wrote: There is of course a limit to how much data your brain can handle at the same time, we can say that you as a human have a limited amount of RAM. Now, let's say that all humans have 1G ram. 600mb of that is spent on background processes, you know, MSN (social stuff), explorer (important body stuff) etc. Now, this gives us 400mb of ram to utilize for SC2. What we want to do is to index SC2 into our brain so that searching for files goes faster, just like the first virus search always take ages while the following ones are quite quick. Now your brain have indexed that probes are made with "e" and terrans do stupid pushes around the 7 minute mark. That takes 50mb to uphold. So, having indexed SC2 perfectly and shut down as many background processes as possible you can now start playing. Every click you do uses up a small bit of your ram. Eventually your ram will run out. However, it's very hard to say at exactly which number of apm you will reach that limit since so many factors play in. How well is the game indexed? Are my background processes using up unnecessary memory? Is my brain infected with malicious software? Yes, there is a cap, but that cap is at how many actions you could do if you could utilize the full 1G potential of your brain, thus eliminating all the memory hogs. The more memory you cut from other things, the more apm you can do. Lol, this went too far  What I'm trying to say is that there is a cap but that cap is unreachable since you will ALWAYS be able to be just a bit more focused and just a tad more alert. However, I do think think that the realistic cap varies from human to human, i would say that all normal functioning humans can get to 200 apm with enough practice and dedication, I'm not so sure that everyone could get to 300 or 350 though. i love the anaology with RAM but some of us have more RAM to play with than others. I can play sc2 and have a stream on and know exactly what is happening at any time in both, my eyes on my game and my ears on ths stream. There's probably some people who couldn't follow both at once. I have an idetic memory, meaning i remember things very very easily and therefore use less time and energy on recalling information than some people might which means we then need to talk about the speed of your RAM too..... anyways, I think everyone has their own personal APM cap based upon many factors not just including how fast your brain can make decisions. your co-ordination, level of intelligence, strategic thinking, ability to touch type and a hundred other factors are involved in defining your personal APM cap | ||
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Foxt
Belize181 Posts
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AidanS
39 Posts
Im also pretty sure the average WoW player uses more hotkeys than a SC2 player in a typical game. Something like guitar hero is going to have comparable APM. So SC isn't that remarkable in speed or number of commands. The problem is mostly pressure and multitasking with a timing component, while responding to what is going on without dropping/neglecting the various macro/micro functions you need to attend to constantly. The reason you don't commonly see high APM is firstly that the controls are clunky, especially the default controls which are all over the keyboard, grid is a nice start but it has its problems too. Secondly there is speed of thought and diligence of action required which people wont have. They are capable of making the actions if they could remember to do them all. | ||
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Silidons
United States2813 Posts
On January 09 2011 06:15 Alpina wrote: You are really wrong here. So you want to say that 200 apm is enough for perfect micro, macro and multitasking in late game for sc2? So you want to say that you are playing perfect game with your 100apm? Every your action is perfect, right? Reading comprehension, do you have it? Did I ever say I am the perfect player? I am saying that yes maybe it is possible to have 200 EAPM, but anything MORE than that is just bollocks. The way control groups, MBS, worker rally, etc work in this game make EAPM go down compared to BW. | ||
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jaydee81
Germany119 Posts
1) There are pretty good players who consistently tend to have lowish APM, especially i.e. Sjow and Goody, but also some others who might actually have 3-digit APM, but way less that 200. They can spike when needed, but they obviously hardly spam at all. Seeing Sjow again today in the Pokeridol tournament, he mostly played really well and at least I could not see him improve in direct relation to higher APM. 2) I think it's even hard to define useful (or maybe call it effective) APM for this matter. Just one example. One player might consistently cycle through his production/upgrade buildings, ensuring to not miss any production time. This can obviously be called useful. Then again, another player might not feel the need to check the state of his production/upgrades every few seconds, because he's comfortable with his timing, only checking close to the end of a cycle. This is just one example that could potentionally make quite a difference in APM. Just a thought. I'm not saying low APM is good or more effective, nor am I saying high APM is ineffective or mostly spamming. I just think different players feel comfortable with different mechanics and it's hard to pin a minimum number for APM that allows you to be good. If one were to do it, I honestly think it would be lower than 200 though. This is just considering average, I absolutely think you have to be able to spike 200+ and more when needed to be even partially competative. Cheers, JD | ||
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gr8ape
Canada302 Posts
I think this is no coincidence, especially since the gameplay and controls are drastically different, yet we find the same range of apm in high level players id be willing to bet if studies were made for a bunch of games the apm for high level player would also turn out in the 200-300 range | ||
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Geniuszerg
Canada454 Posts
On January 09 2011 09:58 NewbieOne wrote: I can probably get to 200 peak in SC2 and remember >250 peak in some Warcraft 3 ladder replays but my average is more like 40. Could be because I've almost never spammed. No click-selecting buildings in the beginning, no clicking every pixel on the move path etc. So I don't get to warmp up like those dudes who start off spamming but are in the right mode when when they do need to do stuff. I have a fine motorics impairment in my dominant hand plus something to do with coordination, same thing that destroys my handwriting, and tend to be useless at sports. So I probably have some handicap where it matters. I don't think I'm ever going to exceed 100 average (perhaps 75 in my top form at War3). ...thats during like a specific point in game, by apm, i think OP ment avg apm, tbh most ppl can go over 600-800 during a specific point in game, but avg is lower | ||
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mardi
United States1164 Posts
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Boundless
Canada588 Posts
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Kpyolysis32
553 Posts
On January 09 2011 13:45 Silidons wrote: Reading comprehension, do you have it? Did I ever say I am the perfect player? I am saying that yes maybe it is possible to have 200 EAPM, but anything MORE than that is just bollocks. The way control groups, MBS, worker rally, etc work in this game make EAPM go down compared to BW. I think that's really not necessarily true. In ZvZ, for instance, there are some close-spawn Zergling+Baneling games where 400 APM average isn't even enough. It really depends on the situation. | ||
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ChThoniC
United States536 Posts
There are many, many people who can't type 50 wpm... I think average is like 35? Of course I imagine the average SC2 player is higher, but still, 200 is inaccessible to the majority of the population. | ||
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Executerror
New Zealand28 Posts
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pfods
United States895 Posts
On January 09 2011 18:06 ChThoniC wrote: If your WPM is below 50, there's no way you can reach 200 apm in SC2. There are many, many people who can't type 50 wpm... I think average is like 35? Of course I imagine the average SC2 player is higher, but still, 200 is inaccessible to the majority of the population. That's misleading. WPM usually takes things like proper punctuation and capitalization into effect. You can very easily type 50 words a minute, or at the very least have the speed to do so, without actually making it very fast on one of those tests. Because I don't need to know how to spell anesthesiologist correctly on the first go when I'm bouncing between my hatcheries making drones. | ||
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applejuice
307 Posts
I'm pretty sure everyone has the physical capabilities to have pro-level APM, assuming you're not ridiculously old, out of shape, or disabled. ... APM is how fast your brain can move, not your fingers. | ||
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ChThoniC
United States536 Posts
On January 09 2011 18:14 pfods wrote: That's misleading. WPM usually takes things like proper punctuation and capitalization into effect. You can very easily type 50 words a minute, or at the very least have the speed to do so, without actually making it very fast on one of those tests. Because I don't need to know how to spell anesthesiologist correctly on the first go when I'm bouncing between my hatcheries making drones. Since when do WPM tests use anesthesiologist-type words? I'm about 90 WPM and 140 APM, so I obviously can improve my speed in SC2... But if someone has 30 WPM, it's hard to imagine that their hands are fast enough to handle 200 APM. | ||
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