EPTPhysical APM Cap? - Page 5
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B.I.G.
3251 Posts
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Erucious
Norway393 Posts
so in the end, apm does matter, but it has to be useful | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On November 30 2010 09:24 ZoW wrote: afaik the known record in a televised game is held by Julyzerg at 818 peak apm. ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/hxBs7.jpg) .That's spam there though, it's spamclicking while mutamicroing and isn't exactly effective, his avg is alot lower as well. I think effort had the highest average APM out of the progamers along with Hero, both had 500+ in multiple games. On January 09 2011 05:40 B.I.G. wrote: you can convince me that 200 apm is all sensible moves. that would mean more then 3 decisions per second. i dont think the human brain works that fast. in other words: the pro's just spam as hell as well. Need to watch more FPVODs | ||
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NIIINO
Slovakia1320 Posts
When i started playing SC2 i had maybe 80 AMP at max. Now im capable of 200 AMP. So why cant i be 300 AMP in next two years ? I think that AMP is learn able by practice. | ||
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darunia
United States139 Posts
On January 09 2011 05:40 B.I.G. wrote: you can convince me that 200 apm is all sensible moves. that would mean more then 3 decisions per second. i dont think the human brain works that fast. in other words: the pro's just spam as hell as well. Pros are constantly checking their unit producing structures, which consists of constant hotkeying (term?). If you look at many replays in the view of a pro you see the hotkeys flickering, but not to spam. They are doing it to keep up with progress. | ||
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Silidons
United States2813 Posts
On January 09 2011 05:54 darunia wrote: Pros are constantly checking their unit producing structures, which consists of constant hotkeying (term?). If you look at many replays in the view of a pro you see the hotkeys flickering, but not to spam. They are doing it to keep up with progress. pretty sure they aren't that dumb and know generally how long said units takes to come out of a structure, they don't need to do it every second throughout the entire game, which is what they do. personally i have around 100 normally with only spamming in the first minute or 2. then i never spam. one game i semi-spammed throughout various parts of the game and got 150apm. that was 50 useless apm. there is no such thing as 200 effective apm in sc2. in sc1 yes, sc2 no. | ||
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Goolpsy
Denmark301 Posts
Now, sc2 controls are much like wc3, however battles are shorter and with much less micro. Microing is what really uses the most apm (again not talking about silly mass spamming here). In sc2 however you have way more macro mechanics, hence while they require less apm, there's more of them, which can amount to alot of apm usage for later games. I'd call the need about even between the 2 games, hence you would only need 110 SC2 apm (because of the Faster clock its like 140 normal apm) Everything else is bad pointless clicking and excessive spam. Edit: This is ofc average apm its easy to spike waay higher. | ||
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ALPINA
3791 Posts
On January 09 2011 06:08 Silidons wrote: there is no such thing as 200 effective apm in sc2. in sc1 yes, sc2 no. You are really wrong here. So you want to say that 200 apm is enough for perfect micro, macro and multitasking in late game for sc2? On January 09 2011 06:08 Silidons wrote: personally i have around 100 normally with only spamming in the first minute or 2. then i never spam. one game i semi-spammed throughout various parts of the game and got 150apm. that was 50 useless apm. So you want to say that you are playing perfect game with your 100apm? Every your action is perfect, right? | ||
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KoshkaTV
United States430 Posts
.1 sec? usually i remember only being able to do it in like .15 generally. So a click every .15 is the max really. So thats.... 6.3 clicks per second. So thats ~360 APM max for muscle twitch factors. Is that wrong somehow? Can people twice in .05 sec? I doubt it EDIT: but i guess they do have more than 1 mouse button and 2 hands. There is a physical limit though. | ||
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Pulimuli
Sweden2766 Posts
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BluzMan
Russian Federation4235 Posts
The only thing that hinders your APM from going through the roof is your mind, not your hands. Anyone who keeps telling SC is too hard mechanically doesn't have a clue. | ||
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Wr3k
Canada2533 Posts
Its probably less useful as protoss though. | ||
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
but averaging 200 apm takes a while and requires lots of dedication to practice. | ||
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Reborn8u
United States1761 Posts
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lyAsakura
United States1414 Posts
On January 09 2011 06:08 Silidons wrote: pretty sure they aren't that dumb and know generally how long said units takes to come out of a structure, they don't need to do it every second throughout the entire game, which is what they do. personally i have around 100 normally with only spamming in the first minute or 2. then i never spam. one game i semi-spammed throughout various parts of the game and got 150apm. that was 50 useless apm. there is no such thing as 200 effective apm in sc2. in sc1 yes, sc2 no. Muscle memory. Continuously doing one thing is much better then doing it, then stopping, then doing it, etc. The actions are not useless at all if it benefits your game. If you've watched Jaedong FPVODs, even though he only hotkeys up to 7 and has only four hatchery hotkeys, he still, even in the midst of the heaviest battle in the game, just scrolls through the four keys, maybe tells 3 larvae to turn into lings, and doing so throughout the entire game makes the pros who they are. Besides, it is impossible to have no redundant apm. Progamers average around 30-40% redundancy and when I play, I get around 20% when I'm, as you did, only spamming in early game. | ||
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morimacil
France921 Posts
you can convince me that 200 apm is all sensible moves. that would mean more then 3 decisions per second. i dont think the human brain works that fast. in other words: the pro's just spam as hell as well. Well first of all, the human brain can work super fast, just because yours doesnt doesnt mean its impossible. Second of all, APM means actions per minute, not decisions per minute. I need to drop his base. 1 decision. double tap hotkey to go to correct screen, select group of units, one too many shift click it out, load into medivac, select medivac, send medivac to opponent's base via edge of the screen, queue unit unload, hotkey medivac to separate ctrl group X, X, click, shift, click, click, click, slick, shift, click, shift, D, click, ctrl, Y 1 simple enough decision, 15 actions required to carry it out, perhaps more. You can spend 5 seconds thinking about what you will do next. Perhaps macro? double tap hotkey, mule twice, select rax, make units, select factory, make units, select starport, make units, ceck up on upgrading structures, make more upgrade if needed. one decision, lots of actions, again. Even something as simple as making a depot. If youve played enough games, you probably dont even need to think about making a depot. it becomes automatic. But even a simple thought like that requires multiple actions. select SCV, build stuff, select depot, select placement, shift click back to mineral line. 6 actions. If it takes you 2 seconds to think about building a depot, and 5 to thinjk about doing a drop, then you could be playing at 200 APM. The reason people have less APM isnt because they arent spamming uselessly, its mostly because they have a lot of idle time. Idle structures doing nothing, units sitting aroung not scouting, not poking, not killing destructible rocks, energy building up on macro mechanics, and so on. They are doing a drop, they are looking at the drop, units are fighting, they watch the units fighting, and so on. While not doing much during that time. | ||
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darunia
United States139 Posts
X, X, click, shift, click, click, click, slick, shift, click, shift, D, click, ctrl, Y 1 simple enough decision, 15 actions required to carry it out, perhaps more. You can spend 5 seconds thinking about what you will do next. Perhaps macro? double tap hotkey, mule twice, select rax, make units, select factory, make units, select starport, make units, ceck up on upgrading structures, make more upgrade if needed. one decision, lots of actions, again. lol makes me wonder what SC2 would be like if it were text based... | ||
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HaRuHi
1220 Posts
I can do this in like 3.xxx seconds, there are 15 numbers to click, so its like 15 actions in 3 seconds. That would be like 300 Apm, and this is only with one hand (Mouseapm). I totally doubt that there is anyone who can't reach 200 useful apm. | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10366 Posts
Also, why do people look down on "spam"? What is spam? Spam is something totally useless, right? Thing is, APM isn't useless. It's never ever useless. At least, I can't think of one instance where it's absolutely useless. Spam at the beginning? It's for warm up. "Spam" clicking when moving units isn't useless either. It keeps you more alert and faster to adapt to the situation (if suddenly you need to go left just a tad or something, for example), can help keep focus on exactly where you're going, and making sure the AI doesn't do any stupid pathing moves or such. How fast come someone click the mouse twice? .1 sec? usually i remember only being able to do it in like .15 generally. So a click every .15 is the max really. So thats.... 6.3 clicks per second. So thats ~360 APM max for muscle twitch factors. Is that wrong somehow? Can people twice in .05 sec? I doubt it EDIT: but i guess they do have more than 1 mouse button and 2 hands. There is a physical limit though. lol i was gonna say, uh, you forgot the keyboard part, but u fixed it  | ||
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TFB
United Kingdom89 Posts
On January 09 2011 06:54 darunia wrote: lol makes me wonder what SC2 would be like if it were text based... You do not have SVC in your inventory. >_ | ||
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