Physical APM Cap? - Page 3

Talin

Montenegro10532 Posts

November 30 2010 01:56 GMT

#41

Honestly I think I could only barely maintain 200 APM over 5 minutes or longer, and that's if random mass clicking was the only thing I focused on (without even playing the game).

I do maintain 90-100 no problem nowadays, but it's pretty much a cap for me. I also feel like I'm clicking insanely fast on 100 APM =p

Tin_Foil

United States243 Posts

November 30 2010 01:57 GMT

#42

I think I'm an exception, but I've always had slow fingers(it held me back in high school band, playing the trumpet), and I have the lowest amp by a good bit of anyone I've seen play in an even match for a good while. I'm a 2400~ Protoss on the NA server, and I still average 70-75 amp. I don't do any spamming and peak in key moments at around 140, but I seem to get everything I need done. I'm sure I can get faster, and am working on it, but I'm not at all sure I can get my average apm to 200. Well see.

TheGiftedApe

United States1243 Posts

November 30 2010 02:01 GMT

#43

idra said he plays at like ~125 apm, so i geuss hes not pro. People miss what apm is really about most of the time. If you are just spamming keys to get to 250-300 apm it is probably hurting your game, since you are paying attention to how fast you can press keys rather than what you should be paying attention too. Your average lamen is going to play at about 30-40 apm, while your average diamond is maybe 50apm. Now there are people who have 200 apm, but their true apm is something like 50 if you take away key spamming and random clicking. In all honesty I think there is about a limit that no one can do more than ~150(except maybe nada) apm with TRUE ACTIONS, no spamming, every click a useful one etc. There is just no way you can do that many things in a minute(especially with the way sc2 counts apm)In battle I'll see my apm jump to 500-600 sometiems if I am really cookin, But that doesnt mean i am a 500 apm player... My average is more like 75, cause I dont click just to click(except in the beginning to warm up)My eyes might be doing 500 looks per minute, but I find it hard to believe that anyone can do 200 apm all game and make every action a useful one. Imo you can be pro with 50apm(maybe not korean pro, but global pro)

TibblesEvilCat

United Kingdom766 Posts

November 30 2010 02:02 GMT

#44

i have carpole tunnel myself and around 4 mins into an intenseive sitautin i cramp that instnatley take soff 100apm, considering i'm a 40-120 avg apm player, i can't trust blizzard apm though as i i can get a avg apm of 4500 or more whichis obiousley retarded

wishbones

Canada2600 Posts

November 30 2010 02:08 GMT

#45

anyone is physically capable of reaching 200 apm, it just takes practice, when comparing APM, use musical instruments go youtube famous instrument players, and just sit there in awe at how fast their hands are moving, that is because they practice one crazy long session after the next, anything with the human hand, with practice will reach amazing speeds. thats just human nature. WE ARE INCREDIBLE creatures on this planet we called earth. Believe it and love it. haha what a ramble but i still made my point.

myself personally, 100-150 apm, and i play maybe once a day. its just the way it is when you've practice enough, your hands never forget how to move.
also keep in mind guitar hero, those guys are nuts, but simply because they practiced enough.
+ Show Spoiler [not a famous guitar player, but fast!] +

oogles

United States29 Posts

November 30 2010 02:15 GMT

#46

This might sound cliche but...

You can do anything you put your mind to.

The people who succeed in Starcraft, and in most things, are people who say "That person can do X, there is no reason I can't do it." People who blame it on it being "physically impossible" for them to do so are creating a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I don't think having 200 APM is a necessity to play well, but if you really want to play with high APM, then just do it. Play and practice and focus on doing it and you will.

ducis

Canada96 Posts

November 30 2010 02:17 GMT

#47

i think its worth noting that lots of stuff is impossible to the average person, not because of genetics or whatever, but because they simply havent trained for it.

A marathon would literally kill someone who is ill prepared, yet their are lots of ultramararthoners who can do 160k (almost 4x marathon distance) at incredible speeds.

likewise, we wont know about an apm cap until we've had people playing starcraft from birth for 10 years 10 hours a day

Stane

United States64 Posts

November 30 2010 02:19 GMT

#48

The sky is the limit for anything in life. If you want to play the lead guitar part in Judas Priest's "Painkiller" all you have to do is practice. There is no unreachable goal.

flodeskum

Iceland1267 Posts

November 30 2010 02:20 GMT

#49

On November 30 2010 09:05 indigoawareness wrote:
I can't seem to get much over 250 even straight spamming but then again maybe I'm special. I also wonder what's the absolute minimum apms needed. For the first few mins it must really not be more then 10. I do enjoy putting 200 apms of effort into making the critcal first pylon though.

And what a pylon that must be.

Ezze

Canada934 Posts

November 30 2010 02:27 GMT

#50

On November 30 2010 10:40 Mooncat wrote:

Show nested quote +

This is pretty interesting. Most responses to this thread so far are like "200APM no problem yo!". Are you actually good at SC2? Because then you'd pretty much be the prime example of what I was talking about earlier. A player who is very good but will always be limited by his rather low APM, thus never being able to reach pro level physically.

Btw. are we talking about 80 real APM here, or 80APM displayed in the SC2 APM Tab which would translate to about 120 actual APM?

I'm not very good by anyone's standards. I'm sitting at about 1900pts 52% win rate, and about 1000 1v1 games. My SC2 displayed APM is about 60 so I figured that was about 80 actual APM.

Like I said earlier, I have tried pretty hard to increase it, but I just can't. It's not a mind limitation either, I can think of several things to do, just can't actually execute them as fast physically.

Over the years, I have probably played over 300 games just for APM practice, spamming as HARD as I could, and the best I ever got for a 10+ min game was about 110 actual APM, but my play actually suffered as most of it was just useless spamming.

I honestly don't get how anyone can have 200+ APM in terms of useful actions. It seems impossible.

Vi)Chris

United States700 Posts

November 30 2010 02:29 GMT

#51

I've had cerebellar trauma and cannot use my right hand for repetitive motions. I can now reach about 100 APM and after that my right hand cannot click any faster. I used to be able to spam 700ish and maybe play effectively with 150 in years past. My left hand can still go quickly, so my keyboard skills are just the same.

uhohstd

United States9 Posts

January 08 2011 17:07 GMT

#52

--- Nuked ---

kefif

Poland264 Posts

January 08 2011 17:24 GMT

#53

On January 09 2011 02:07 uhohstd wrote:
hmmmm well i think i got some nasty fingers, 912 apm, picture proof http://screenshot.xfire.com/s/109254718-4.jpg
i got the replay still and i will do it again for the non believers.

and? Do you think that spamming to get high apm is hard? It is about effective apm during the game not about silly spamming.
But you made me to do it:
+ Show Spoiler +

SnuggleZhenya

596 Posts

January 08 2011 17:30 GMT

#54

APM gets better the better your muscle memory gets at chunking your actions. If you have played enough to develop the kind of muscle memory that you can just thinking "macro from my barracks" and your fingers hit all the right keys. If you are thinking "3aa4dd" or something, thats way less efficient, muscle memory is the key to APM I think, and it comes from consistency and practice, nothing else. Granted, some people are going to have purely better natural talent, but I think very few people are physically unable to hit 100-200 actions per minute if their brain/muscle memory is up to the task.

BuuGhost

Netherlands340 Posts

January 08 2011 17:41 GMT

#55

I think that everyone could do it. but their effort required might be different, For example, Someone might need only a few games and a basic knowledge of the game to gain 200 usefull apm.
While the other guy may have needed 500 games played plus alot of practise games to gain that number.

besides APM spamming is childsplay, trying to put it to good use is the hard part.

ALPINA

3791 Posts

January 08 2011 17:44 GMT

#56

On November 30 2010 10:03 NeoOmega wrote:

Show nested quote +

This.

Well I disagree.

If I know all actions I need to make in next 10 seconds, for example, inject bases, build evo chamber, build units and spead creep, I still can't do that very fast and my precision is not that good. If you watch pro players they just click and build everything much faster and their precision is much better. I can't even click on minimap precise and fast..

If you order to make 10 actions in a row to regular player and same action for pro, then pro will make them much faster.

wxwx

527 Posts

January 08 2011 17:45 GMT

#57

Here's the scoop about apm:

It shouldn't be used as a standard! It's just too easy to fake/abuse. I can easily click 4 times for each move command and reach 400apm, but I'm actually playing worse than when I'm playing at 150.

Also it's skewed in that it's the average over the entire game. A person can have 300 apm at the start of the game spamming but then when it comes to the part where apm really counts (army battles/multiple drops) then drops to 50. On the other hand, a passive player who doesn't need to do much to keep perfect macro can have 100 the whole game, but spike at 400 when his actions are really needed.

So don't use apm as a benchmark for success. It's too vague: just look at your games and pinpoint your weaknesses. Is your scout always dying? Your multitasking needs to improve. Not knowing your army is engaging until too late? You have to work on your awareness.

RoosterSamurai

Japan2108 Posts

January 08 2011 17:46 GMT

#58

Are we able to assume that "everyone" includes only people that have no physical disabilities that may hinder movement or brain function permitting 200 useful APM in starcraft 2? If so, then yes, absolutely. I think that with enough repetition, everyone could have a useful APM at or around 200.

playa

United States1284 Posts

January 08 2011 17:48 GMT

#59

When it comes to APM, I'm pretty perplexed. I can type 140 wpm, yet my APM in SC isn't that much higher than that number. I just started using APM live the other day and I'm utterly confused at how most people I play seem to have over 400 APM during the first 2 minutes. I mean, there isn't jack s to do. It's hard to not feel like a clown when you're spamming that much when you could do like 20 actions per minute and be playing optimally...

I'd like to hear about APM training and how some players got theirs over something like 220. It would be nice to have a high real APM; not the APM that most people have in the first 2 minutes when they are using 10000 clicks to accomplish the same thing you do in 1.

JayConn

United States408 Posts

January 08 2011 17:49 GMT

#60

I'd expect most people can while spamming. Hell, I got to 804 apm while spamming early game one time. I'm sure there are some who physically may not be able, but at least you can still play well with much less. But it's more a drain on the brain to make 200 useful actions in a minute.

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