EPTAll in all this will balance the game better in terms of WL but I feel like it takes away options rather than adds them (but hydras in ZvT will be interesting).
Situation report 1 posted! - Page 91
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revy
United States1524 Posts
All in all this will balance the game better in terms of WL but I feel like it takes away options rather than adds them (but hydras in ZvT will be interesting). | ||
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ZappaSC
Denmark215 Posts
On August 31 2010 04:57 st3roids wrote: stalkers arent air units - why build marines vs stalkers in first place. Also 10 stalkers terms of minerals and gas equalls like 25 marines and 25 stim marines will own 10 stalkers o gosh i think blizzard comes with this kinda of logic Thats simply because stalkers arent meant to counter marines? And its not like the terran aint gonna suffer loses. Plus Protoss can VERY strong gateway compositions.. i play around 600 diamond, and i rarely see other people forcefield... !?!? Really its one of the best abilitys in the game | ||
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st3roids
Greece538 Posts
Thats simply because stalkers arent meant to counter marines? And its not like the terran aint gonna suffer loses. Plus Protoss can VERY strong gateway compositions.. dont tell me, read before so ull understand i play around 600 diamond, and i rarely see other people forcefield... !?!? Really its one of the best abilitys in the game This proves how certain strats can boost u up to plat lvl or ladder is broken or too many cheaters exist , which is rly f%ucked up if u think about it ( 2 many 1a) | ||
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DonKey_
Liechtenstein1356 Posts
nerfing the tanks really feels like they took the easy way out and even still now ZvT is fundamentally unchanged ps. who was asking for a zealot and warpgate nerf? | ||
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Icemind
Germany570 Posts
On August 31 2010 02:51 st3roids wrote: concussive shells should have a timer , having units perma snare from range and perma kite is rly broken. also i dont see why pf should exist is there some reason that terran needs to have immunity to ground army harassment ? He already have to air attacks with thor 10 range and turrets ridiculus dmg Is there a reason why protoss need to have immunity to ground harassment air harassment and cloak harassment all in one building?  That actually only costs 150 minerals and not 550/150 and doesnt disable your races macro mechanism at that expo. Terrans are the only race that does not have any standard static defenses against ground so there really is no reason to cry about their only way to defend expos without binding loads of supply, especially since that one is unable to attack air and already gets outranged by tanks without siege. Also it is quite expensive and losing your ability to mule is not to be taken lightly. I agree though that marauders should be changed ... or best give me back our old medics and firebats instead | ||
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alkampfer
116 Posts
 they should nerf marauders... NOT TANK | ||
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SkyDiDeLY
Netherlands51 Posts
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Icemind
Germany570 Posts
On August 31 2010 06:34 SkyDiDeLY wrote: Tank damage isnt nerfed at all vs Zerg.. The only light units Zerg has are lings and hydra.. Hydra still melt against tank.. so nothing is changed as far as I can see. Uhm yeah apparently you dont see very much then. Lets take a look at the Zerg ground units Roaches (armored): yeah for them truely nothing has changed, but they were already decent against tanks before at least when used in burrowed mode (a lot of people dont see how much of the tank splash can be nullified by the rapid regeneration, even if you are see while moving in). Although of course they still get obliterated by marauders (if there were that many of them though you could still go for mutas) Ultras (armored): for them its the same too but honestly they didnt give a damn about tanks anyway, there is hardly anything more beautiful (or horrible if you are on the wrong side) than seeing ultras rampage through a tank line. All other units zerg ground units are non-armored and will take 30% less main and splash damage after the patch. Iam sorry if i dont share your perspective but to me that looks like quite something has changed, especially in terms of splash which always has been the real scary part. Although i admit i would have liked it much more if tanks had regained their 60 damage but would be overshooting again. Without overshooting it will always be incredibly hard to balance them since they will pretty much always be either too strong or way too weak as long as they do not. | ||
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SkyDiDeLY
Netherlands51 Posts
On August 31 2010 09:05 Icemind wrote: All other units zerg ground units are non-armored and will take 30% less main and splash damage after the patch. Iam sorry if i dont share your perspective but to me that looks like quite something has changed, especially in terms of splash which always has been the real scary part. Banelings and infestors are also armored.. But maybe you're right. I dont know how the splash exactly works. But zerglings still die in 1 hit unless they have the carapace + 1 | ||
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abrasion
Australia722 Posts
On August 31 2010 02:48 brocoli wrote: I'm still waiting for a Concussive Shells nerf in the likes of "requires Armory" xD I'm sure we'll get there someday. Yep, M/M/M/G is such an incredibly powerful combination that it's ridiculous. It's not an instant win solution but the problem is, it's so powerful - what incentive is there to build tanks or BC's or Thors or Vikings? Why bother? M/M/M/G is going to solve 99.9% of problems. That's what's making Terran play, frankly fucking boring to watch. | ||
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
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hacpee
United States752 Posts
On August 31 2010 05:51 Icemind wrote: Is there a reason why protoss need to have immunity to ground harassment air harassment and cloak harassment all in one building? That actually only costs 150 minerals and not 550/150 and doesnt disable your races macro mechanism at that expo. Terrans are the only race that does not have any standard static defenses against ground so there really is no reason to cry about their only way to defend expos without binding loads of supply, especially since that one is unable to attack air and already gets outranged by tanks without siege. Also it is quite expensive and losing your ability to mule is not to be taken lightly. I agree though that marauders should be changed ... or best give me back our old medics and firebats instead Are you serious? Cannons do not stop banshees. Banshees aren't DTs, They aren't melee. They can stay out of cannon and detection range and take pot shots as much as they want. Unless you build a lot of cannons, they can't do anything. If protoss wants to start a safe expo, they need 1 nexus, at least 1 pylon, and a couple of cannons. If terran wants a safe expo, it just needs a PF and two turrets. | ||
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dump
Japan514 Posts
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Grummler
Germany743 Posts
On August 31 2010 20:35 hacpee wrote: Are you serious? Cannons do not stop banshees. Banshees aren't DTs, They aren't melee. They can stay out of cannon and detection range and take pot shots as much as they want. Unless you build a lot of cannons, they can't do anything. If protoss wants to start a safe expo, they need 1 nexus, at least 1 pylon, and a couple of cannons. If terran wants a safe expo, it just needs a PF and two turrets. So, why are 2 turrets enough to stop void rays, while 2 cannons are not enough to stop banshees? Its not like you HAVE to compare cloak vs cloak unit. Three different races, you see? Also: PF + 2 turrets: 150/150 + 200/0 =350/150 Without orbital command the terran will also lose 270 minerals each 30 seconds. As Protoss you could start with 3-4 cannons right away (depends on how you compare gas to minerals) and build 2 cannons every 35 seconds and still be even with your terran buddy. Oh, and you also have chrono boost to pump probes. And counting pylons as dependency for getting a save expansion is stupid. Thats like saying "omg, as terran i have to wall in. I need atleast 2 depots, thats 200 minerals i have to spend just to be save". TvZ may be in favor of terran. But TvP is not near as imba as most toss want it to be. And even then, its mmm, not planetary fortress. | ||
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DarkspearTribe
568 Posts
1) Mules 2) Infested terrans. | ||
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Cranberries
Wales567 Posts
On August 31 2010 20:56 Grummler wrote: Without orbital command the terran will also lose 270 minerals each 30 seconds. As Protoss you could start with 3-4 cannons right away (depends on how you compare gas to minerals) and build 2 cannons every 35 seconds and still be even with your terran buddy. Oh, and you also have chrono boost to pump probes. You don't lose 270 minerals every 30 seconds. You just mine the 270 minerals slightly slower. There's a massive difference. If building an Orbital Command and NOT using a Mule every 50 energy reduced your mineral count by 270, you'd be right: but you are not. | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On August 31 2010 09:05 Icemind wrote: All other units zerg ground units are non-armored and will take 30% less main and splash damage after the patch. Iam sorry if i dont share your perspective but to me that looks like quite something has changed, especially in terms of splash which always has been the real scary part. It actually hasn't changed much. Tanks will still 1shot the first ling and 2shot lings in the 50% dmg zone. The only difference is they now 4shot in the 25% zone rather than 3shot. This change has the biggest effect on Zealot vs Tanks really. | ||
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Butigroove
Seychelles2061 Posts
On August 31 2010 09:05 Icemind wrote: Uhm yeah apparently you dont see very much then. Lets take a look at the Zerg ground units Roaches (armored): yeah for them truely nothing has changed, but they were already decent against tanks before at least when used in burrowed mode (a lot of people dont see how much of the tank splash can be nullified by the rapid regeneration, even if you are see while moving in). Although of course they still get obliterated by marauders (if there were that many of them though you could still go for mutas) Ultras (armored): for them its the same too but honestly they didnt give a damn about tanks anyway, there is hardly anything more beautiful (or horrible if you are on the wrong side) than seeing ultras rampage through a tank line. All other units zerg ground units are non-armored and will take 30% less main and splash damage after the patch. Iam sorry if i dont share your perspective but to me that looks like quite something has changed, especially in terms of splash which always has been the real scary part. Although i admit i would have liked it much more if tanks had regained their 60 damage but would be overshooting again. Without overshooting it will always be incredibly hard to balance them since they will pretty much always be either too strong or way too weak as long as they do not. The tank damage changes hardly anything versus zerg. Zerglings, banelings and Hydras still die in the same ammount of shots in 100% and 50% range, and only 1 more shot in the 25% range. Takes one more shot to kill infestors. and OH GNOES tanks kill queens slower lol... Hardly a nerf at all vs zerg. :S | ||
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Daedie
Belgium160 Posts
On August 31 2010 21:04 Butigroove wrote: The tank damage changes hardly anything versus zerg. Zerglings, banelings and Hydras still die in the same ammount of shots in 100% and 50% range, and only 1 more shot in the 25% range. Takes one more shot to kill infestors. and OH GNOES tanks kill queens slower lol... Hardly a nerf at all vs zerg. :S So you are saying 50 damage kill 80hp hydra's in the same amount of shots as 35 dmg? I wonder where you were taught math. | ||
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st3roids
Greece538 Posts
even som1 who plays sc2 for a day can understand whats wrong with this replay. t1 terran units vs t2-t3 toss units and terran won relativlely easy. the comparison would been zerglings + roaches only vs collossi archons , stalkers + storm and zerg winning or stalkers zealots vs thors , tanks marauders and winning. Guess what only terran units can do this and they still will after patch . | ||
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