On September 09 2010 22:40 ToastieNL wrote: 35 damage is enough vs. Lings. They take 35/35 damage, and they regen immediatly after taking damage. If they are dead, they can't regenerate. 35 is enough.
Btw, these Terran buffs should be quite an obvious troll. I also want to add that Barracks should be free and SCVs can now repair from any place on the map.
Not if the Zergling has 1 armor ... and that is easily researchable, since it works for all Zerg ground forces. Damage upgrade for tanks needs an extra building and is available much later only. Fair? Nah. Logical? Nah.
The biggest change from this nerf will be in PvT, where Tanks need FIVE hits for a Zealot instead of THREE. That will totally make any use of Tanks useless against Protoss, because the Zealots just charge the bio units protecting the Tanks and these just get annihilated by splash damage (YAY ... Marauders are armored and take fully 50 damage) while the Zealots survive ... Someone at Blizzard plays Protoss and wants to win against Terrans the easy way.
You do realize that chance are that this will help the terran infantry ball too. If a zealot is shot the splash starts at 35 which is not enough to kill the marine if there are medivacs nearby they will get healed also if a zealot is shot 35 damage is like a pinprick to a marauder. Splash damage will most likely be targeted from the units armor type that is struck. Meaning if I shoot a stalker with a tank the zealot next to it will take 50 damage as well due to the splash but if the zealot is targeted the stalker will only recieve 35 damage from splash.
On September 10 2010 03:24 Bibdy wrote: Oh yes, Protoss are definitely going to be rampaging head-first at walls of Tanks with a Marine/Hellion blob in front of them with Zealots post-patch. Nothing says I win like giving a bunch of range 13, splash damage units a bunch of free shots before the fight starts.
Do you people even listen to yourselves? The counter to Tanks will always be Void Rays and Phoenixes. Force him to stop producing Tanks, get air control and find things to snipe while he tries to scramble Vikings.
If Tanks get situated in front of your expansion and all you've got is Zealots to run at him with, the game is still going to be completely over regardless of this damage nerf or not.
On September 10 2010 03:32 starckr wrote: what's with all the ppl saying tanks will be useless against TvP now?? tanks already ARE useless in TvP. 99 of people go bio in TvP as is.
TvZ about 70% go bio and 30% go mech. now it will probably be 99% bio and 1% mech.
mech useless vs p not really what makes infantry good vs p is it is good vs things that come from the gateway early on and its more mobile thats it. versus zerg well the threat of the reaper early on is what allows people to go bio. Infestor baneling combo rapes terran infantry.
They got nerfed zealot rushes because they worked extremely well against PvP, the typical build order again PvP with 80% win rage is 2 gate zealot rush which worked 80% til diamon league... though i do really hate 6-7 pool ling rushes so looks like its time to work on canons...
On September 10 2010 01:36 Raiznhell wrote: Seriously how often are we ever gunna see mech anymore. the siege tank nerf to 50 damage has already made them weak vs all armored units. this nerf to doing 35 vs light just makes them that much more weaker vs light. tansk should be 35 +35 vs armored. yeah it sounds like alot but really isnt when you think about it. 35 +35 you still 3 shot roaches, 3 shot hydras, 2 shot rines. the only difference with will make is against ultralisks and marauders. because let's face it you can 1a ultra sinto a massive group of sieged tanks and just win while losing maybe one or 2 ultras because tanks need 8 shots to kill 1 ultralisk. with 70 damage to armored it takes 5-6. still alot but not incedibly high. makes tanks a little less helpless vs ultras. also 70 damage vs armored would help with marauders dominating TvT. seriously marauders just dominate every matchup and it gets a little boring. TvT was the only matchup that used to be practicaly to get tanks. 2 shotting marauders would make for a better TvT matchup as it will turn into a tech battle which i think is how mirrors should eb played. as tech battles.
Do you REALLY want mech?
I mean it seems that Terran players are finding tons of flavor in their race that wasn't quite the same as in Brood War but still makes them a really fun race to play.
Siege Tanks en-mass are impossible to break right now, that's why they're getting nerfed.
siege tanks are not impossible to break at all. not when the opponent has the resource lead. ultras steam roll tanks like they're nothing. marauders do the same usually. blink stalkers and pheonixes and void rays bust mech extremely eaily in TvP also with immortal support wasting tank shots. and yes i really want to go mech. it's why terran was my favorite race in BW. i like that kind of mass artillery/macro style. yeah marauders are cool but seriously theres never a matchup where you dont mass them like crazy and it's boring for me. mech is also my favorite to watch and it's a pitty that only Painuser and Jinro ever mech and every other terran just masses MMM. it's just stale watching MMM all the time.
lol @ "ultras own tanks", seriously.
if hydras were destroyed ur entire ground army alone, would you be okay with me saying, "hydras are np, battlecruisers destroy hydras" ?
On September 15 2010 12:27 DooMDash wrote: TvZ in 1.1 = Pretty much the same most likely.
Except the 5rax reaper build will be quite a lot weaker.
On September 15 2010 12:27 DooMDash wrote: TvP in 1.1 = Pretty much the same as tanks were already pretty useless.
Tanks are not at all useless, there are players out there who are going mech in TvP you know? Bio is not the only choice, and a large mass of tanks completely demolish any gateway unit from protoss - zealot flanking on tanks in SC2 is not very efficient to say the least.
Tanks are most certainly not good against protoss. Blink stalkers, immortals, and void rays are all effective counters to siege tanks. Thats every single possible tech tree you could go down. While the tanks are effective, its also a lot more finicky and dangerous than bio or air based strategies.
The only real issue i have with the tank changes is that there is no longer an efficient way to deal with hydralisks as terran without doing stupid stuff like using stimmed marauders to kill all ground units.
Hellions are terrible at it. The attack animation length and 5 range means they usually will die without attacking if you are dealing with a decent number of hydralisks.
I would be much happier if they changed the damage of the siege tank to be size dependent. 35 damage to small units. 45 damage to medium units 55 damage to large units.
Splash damage would be dependent on the affected units size not the size of the primary target.
So a zealot standing next to a collossi would take 17.5 damage (or 8) but a hydralisk in the same position would take 22.5 (or 11).
There are no large, light units so it would be about the same, but worse against marauders and stalkers. The only real difference is that Hydralisks take slightly more damage. The lore even says that you need siege tanks to deal with Hydralisks.
Tank damage is Okay imo. With smartfire in the picture they are on a similiar level than BW tanks. What they could need though would be either a small range increase and or a small cost decrease (-25 Gas and or down to 2 supply). I wish Blizz balances in a way that Mech becommes really viable against Protoss.
On September 15 2010 17:42 kawazu wrote: Tanks are most certainly not good against protoss. Blink stalkers, immortals, and void rays are all effective counters to siege tanks. Thats every single possible tech tree you could go down. While the tanks are effective, its also a lot more finicky and dangerous than bio or air based strategies
Most of my Protoss opponents in TvP complain about mass tanks in the late game. Once you have a dozen, no unit combination can withstand that firepower on the ground. Blinking stalkers get easily negated by the PDD. Immortals are blasted away. If not, EMP will help out. Reacting swiftly to void rays will also alow to abolish them easily.
The only real issue i have with the tank changes is that there is no longer an efficient way to deal with hydralisks as terran without doing stupid stuff like using stimmed marauders to kill all ground units.
Hellions are terrible at it. The attack animation length and 5 range means they usually will die without attacking if you are dealing with a decent number of hydralisks.
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There are no large, light units so it would be about the same, but worse against marauders and stalkers. The only real difference is that Hydralisks take slightly more damage. The lore even says that you need siege tanks to deal with Hydralisks.
Woah, I have no idea what game you play
Basically every single ground unit terrran has is cost-effective against hydras in a straight unit vs. unit fight. Marines beat them quite badly for zero gas, stimmed marauders and hydras kill each other at the same time - marauders cost 25 less gas and medivacs obviously tilt it way in their favour - , thors beat them, seiged tanks demolish them now and will in all likelihood still handily demolish them after the nerf, reapers barely lose 1v1 and may win depending on positioning en masse (way less mineral cost as well), ghosts lose unless they have at least 100 energy for four snipes in which case they win (vs. 3 hydras, half the mineral cost also)...
...and hellions with pre-igniter absolutely destroy them and cost zero-gas. If you think hellions are 'terrible' at killing hydras you are doing it very, very wrong. Actually hydras barely beat hellions in small numbers (not cost-effectively though), but in larger numbers (3-4 or more) its the opposite of what you said - hellions get exponentially better the more there is. The key is instead of attack-moving in you target a hydra in the middle of the pack and/or close the distance before you attack. Thats it. And obviously you can micro every single attack for greater effect, but you don't have to.
Thats one of the major complaints about ZvT. The hydra been literally useless. I'm shocked someone thinks it might become hard for terran to deal with once patch 1.1 hits
EPT
