EPTThis way they would still own anything armored
You understand how this sounds now do u ?
Guess you dont
Situation report 1 posted! - Page 93
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st3roids
Greece538 Posts
You understand how this sounds now do u ? Guess you dont | ||
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koppik
United States676 Posts
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Fizbin
Canada202 Posts
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Grummler
Germany743 Posts
On September 01 2010 02:45 st3roids wrote: You understand how this sounds now do u ? Guess you dont A slow unit, that cant shoot air, and deals extra dmg to armored. Obviously they are designed to be good against all ground armored units. That wont change. Never. For the same reason hellions will always be good against ground light units. But you cant go mass hellions no matter what your enemy does, cause they suck against anthing non light. Right now Marauders are also good against anything not flying. My nerf what change that. Also quoting just a single sentence out of context doesnt make you look too smart. Especially if this sentence starts with "this way..". If you think that one day you can go mass stalkers against mass marauders, you are wrong. | ||
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kickinhead
Switzerland2069 Posts
On September 01 2010 02:51 Fizbin wrote: i just downloaded all of the new qxc replays and i watched the recent korean turn replay pack as well. and i must agree with some of the posters here. the combination hitting front with marauders while back dooring reapers and sniping nexus. or even just dropping a few marauders on an expo is way to easy to snipe nexus/hatchery's armoerd damage from marauders needs to be nerfed. they just take down buildings a little to fast to respond. Don't forget about midgame Marauder-Drops. 1 Medivac with stimmed Marauders takes down a Hatch/Nexus/CC in no time, god forbid the Terran comes along with 2 or more Medivacs full with Marauders. You can't look at the Building and it's already gone... ^^' | ||
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BadZombieAsh
4 Posts
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Ballistixz
United States1269 Posts
On September 01 2010 02:58 Grummler wrote: A slow unit, that cant shoot air, and deals extra dmg to armored. Obviously they are designed to be good against all ground armored units. That wont change. Never. For the same reason hellions will always be good against ground light units. But you cant go mass hellions no matter what your enemy does, cause they suck against anthing non light. Right now Marauders are also good against anything not flying. My nerf what change that. Also quoting just a single sentence out of context doesnt make you look too smart. Especially if this sentence starts with "this way..". If you think that one day you can go mass stalkers against mass marauders, you are wrong. immortals are also suppose to destroy marauders as that is the only real counter to them for toss. yet emp makes immortals useless. roaches are also suppose to do good against marines but a good ammount of marines do surprsingly well against roaches once they get stim and combat shield. and once medivacs come in roaches are useless against marines. and zerglings with speed and zealots with charge can take out hellions as long as there not critical mass. marines with combat shield and stim are also good against hellions. same with banelings. so no, you are wrong. you shouldnt have to just mass a unit that does dmg to armored and A move them to deal dmg. u should be able to defeat them with good micro like the case is with hellions and other light units. that IS NOT the case with marauders. u can just A move marauders and kill everything thats armored except ultras. but with ultras all u need to do is focus fire them. marines and marauders are good against everything ranging from light and armored units. it doesnt matter. there a tier 1 unit comp that can take on tier 3 units easily. something is wrong with that. toss can not do this and especially not zerg. terrans are the only race that can mass 2 units the entire game and win without ever resorting to any higher tier units. terrans are the only race that can do THAT much dmg to armored units with the exception of ultras. they also have siege tanks which do pretty dam good dps to armored units while unsieged and vikings which do dmg to armored units when landed. so no, marauders dont need that much dmg output. terrans are already a huge powerhouse without marauders. | ||
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JudoChopper
England148 Posts
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Grummler
Germany743 Posts
On September 01 2010 03:16 Ballistixz wrote: immortals are also suppose to destroy marauders as that is the only real counter to them for toss. yet emp makes immortals useless. roaches are also suppose to do good against marines but a good ammount of marines do surprsingly well against roaches once they get stim and combat shield. and once medivacs come in roaches are useless against marines. so no, you are wrong. Nope, banelings to pretty well against marines. So no, you are wrong. ... why are you telling me, that i am wrong, because marines are good against roaches? WTF?! Neither i said something different, nor talked i about mariens/roaches AT ALL. All i said at the beginning was to nerv marauders from 10+10 do 8+12 do make them less versatil against non armored units. On September 01 2010 03:16 Ballistixz wrote: marines and marauders are good against everything ranging from light and armored units. it doesnt matter. there a tier 1 unit comp that can take on tier 3 units easily. something is wrong with that. toss can not do this and especially not zerg. terrans are the only race that can mass 2 units the entire game and win without ever resorting to any higher tier units. Yeah, well, thats why i want the marauder to be worse against non armored. So tier1-tier2 army compositions can do better against marauder heavy armies. Oh, and with stim and ghost and medivacs mmm wont be tier 1 anymore. But i guess now someone will tell me, that i am wrong, because tanks still own zerglings Oo | ||
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Ballistixz
United States1269 Posts
On September 01 2010 03:28 Grummler wrote: Nope, banelings to pretty well against marines. So no, you are wrong. ... why are you telling me, that i am wrong, because marines are good against roaches? WTF?! Neither i said something different, nor talked i about mariens/roaches AT ALL. All i said at the beginning was to nerv marauders from 10+10 do 8+12 do make them less versaitl against non armored units. Yeah, well, thats why i want the marauder to be less versaitl... But i guess now someone will tell me, that i am wrong, because tanks still own zerglings Oo atk move banelings do well against atk move marines. but if you know what you are doing you can lessen the dmg done to the marines by either using marauders as meat shields or just spreading your marines out. my point was that you SHOULDNT have to just mass one unit to counter another unit just by A moving. this is exactly what marauders are. if you see someone going roaches or any kind of armored unit a terran can just mass up marauders and wipe it out. zerg or toss cant do this. they both need to have a well balanced unit mix just to deal with a terran T1 bioball. stalkers have only a very slight increase to armored targets and immortals are useless once terran gets emp ghost. and zerg only have ultras that do dmg to armored. just look at the ammount of units a toss and zerg needs to get to deal with terran infantry. nerfing the dmg to 8+12 vs armored wont do much since marauders can still kite units like zealots easily and just rape everything else. or do u forget how effective marauder drops are to take out key buildings insanely fast? they are armored after all. thats why i agree with the suggestions of either keeping there dmg as 10(20 vs armored) and just removing stim, or keep stim and nerf there dmg to 10(15 vs armored). | ||
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Shiladie
Canada1631 Posts
stim takes 40 hp from marauders slightly nerf attack speed while unstimmed slightly nerf move speed while unstimmed leave stimmed numbers the same as they are now. right now they are such a hard counter for so many things, but that isn't their massive strength, their strength is in the fact that they do at least par with pretty much everything on the ground with the exception of speedlings, and only if the speedlings get to surround them. | ||
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kev098
Canada2 Posts
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Kryptix
United States138 Posts
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terranghost
United States980 Posts
On August 31 2010 19:08 SkyDiDeLY wrote: Banelings and infestors are also armored.. But maybe you're right. I dont know how the splash exactly works. But zerglings still die in 1 hit unless they have the carapace + 1 banelings aren't armored On September 01 2010 02:38 Ballistixz wrote: medivacs cant atk and ghosts for emp against toss immortals is a nobrainer. the fact his he massed a bunch of tier 1 units as his main bulk army and took out a army that consisted mainly of tier 2 and tier 3 units of toss. and whats even more stupid is that he 1A moved most if not all of the time with a few drops here and there that any one can do. marauders need a nerf. doesnt matter what it is but they need one. i still suggest removing stim from marauders. they still do insane dmg to armored units and buildings without stim. but once they do stim up they just destroy anything and everything with armor Also I am not saying a disagree with a marauder nerf in some way shape or form. BUt in this replay the terran goes heavy marine marauder the toss goes heavy sentry/stalker/zealot. This is t1 vt1 Toss techs to collosus which is T2.5 while terran techs to vikings also T3 After the viking the protoss switched to templar instead which is also T3.5 so the terrans pumped out T3 medivacs and T1.5 ghosts. The T1 vs T1 remained the same throughout. There were basically the same number of T3 units on both sides for a large majority of that game. (if you consider medivacs 2.5 fine go ahead my point still stands) As far as a nerf for the marauder keep in mind that loss of stim pack would prevent marauders from stimming up to go kill a collosus but it would also prevent them in tvt from stimming up to kill tanks. Granted blizzard should not base the balance off of a mirror match. It is good that they are attempting to make them more fun to watch but if that comes at the price of making X vs Y not fun to watch then I would vote against it. At the same time concussive shells is what allows marines to be useful in the ball so removal of that ability would probably not work. The best solution imo is a cooldown or even make it a castable ability (with or without energy). | ||
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Craton
United States17250 Posts
In the tests the splash was dealing ~1/3 of the base damage consistently, so the a direct hit to the roach would deal 34 (35-1) and 12 to the tank, while a direct hit to the tank would do 24 (25-1) to the tank and only 8 to the roach. You would expect the reverse if the splash damage were calculated per-unit, and not based on the primary target. Its seems like the effect of the tank nerf will be non-existant in many situations. | ||
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Leeoku
1617 Posts
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Grummler
Germany743 Posts
On September 01 2010 06:24 Craton wrote: Its seems like the effect of the tank nerf will be non-existant in many situations. Each time a tank shoots an armored unit... | ||
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st3roids
Greece538 Posts
For some reason it went live in multiplayer. Is not the marauder as unit stim is what makes mmm ball so effective . | ||
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universalwill
United States654 Posts
even after the patch, terran will still be at the point where, if in the hands of a truly competent player, will never lose. in my opinion the patch that balances the game is the patch that takes stim away from marauders and increases their gas cost. | ||
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dump
Japan514 Posts
this comparison is by no means holistic, but it's hard to deny the disparity (sorry i really know nothing about zvt): 150 minerals/100 gas/50 build time for twilight council + 200/200/140 for the upgrade + 500/0/70 for 5 zealots from 2 warp gates = 850/300/260 for 5 zealots with charge 150/100/50 for council + 150/200/50 for templar archives + 200/200/110 for storm + 100/300/55 for two high templar = 600/800/260 for two templars with storm 200/100/65 for robotics facility + 200/200/65 for robotics bay + 200/200/140 for extended thermal lance + 300/200/75 for colossus = 900/700/345 for effective colossus 50/25/25 for tech lab + 50/50/60 for concussive shells + 800/200/120 for 8 marauders from two tech lab barracks = 900/275/215 for 8 marauders with concussive shells | ||
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