As a Swede, I have a few theories as to why we have the most top players per capita (except for Korea I suppose). I think the same factors have a hand in Sweden's dominant position in the music industry.
Weather is crap 8 months out of the year. People stay indoors.
For the 3-4 months the weather is passable, there are summer vacations and school holds up.
We have the largest percentage of single households in the world, because of a number of cultural factors. Being alone isn't stigmatized in Sweden like it is in most places.
It is way way easier to be poor in Sweden, than in countries such as the US. Medical care is largely free. Public transportation is better, and in the cities there really is no reason to own a car. Even daycare is almost free, if you happen to reproduce.
Our internet connectivity has been very good for a long time.
Work days are shorter, tax breaks for people with low income are extensive, vacation time is far greater than in the US.
Some more tenuous theories: The parents of the generation of Swedes born in the eighties had the largest amount of divorces in Swedish history at least. One-parent households mean kids need to entertain themselves more, and guilty parents buy more expensive gifts such as computers.
Swedish culture is somewhat socially inhibited, compared to most of Europe. We are the koreans of Europe, I guess you could say. Nerdery comes naturally.
Sports and competitive play is and has always been a big deal here. Scrawny and fat kids want to compete as well.
On August 26 2010 01:43 Scope wrote: As a Swede, I have a few theories as to why we have the most top players per capita (except for Korea I suppose). I think the same factors have a hand in Sweden's dominant position in the music industry.
Weather is crap 8 months out of the year. People stay indoors.
For the 3-4 months the weather is passable, there are summer vacations and school holds up.
We have the largest percentage of single households in the world, because of a number of cultural factors. Being alone isn't stigmatized in Sweden like it is in most places.
It is way way easier to be poor in Sweden, than in countries such as the US. Medical care is largely free. Public transportation is better, and in the cities there really is no reason to own a car. Even daycare is almost free, if you happen to reproduce.
Our internet connectivity has been very good for a long time.
Work days are shorter, tax breaks for people with low income are extensive, vacation time is far greater than in the US.
Some more tenuous theories: The parents of the generation of Swedes born in the eighties had the largest amount of divorces in Swedish history at least. One-parent households mean kids need to entertain themselves more, and guilty parents buy more expensive gifts such as computers.
Swedish culture is somewhat socially inhibited, compared to most of Europe. We are the koreans of Europe, I guess you could say. Nerdery comes naturally.
Sports and competitive play is and has always been a big deal here. Scrawny and fat kids want to compete as well.
That's my 2 cents.
sounds extremely similar to where I live and there were very very good players from broodwar in quebec, also we've got some of the best poker players here ;o
On August 26 2010 01:31 Zevah wrote: It's not about population.. it's about Culture.
Do you see any South American in the top? no! they play soccer!
There are many factors that should play a part in this discussion.
South America, Africa, and southern Asia have lower rates of internet use per capita than eastern Asia, Europe, or North America, which is likely why we see the latter three regions over-represented in SC (and gaming) communities.
"Culture" may play a part in it, either in the form of preferring strategy games to other genres, studying the game more thoroughly, or even just having more time to practice and play. With that in mind, it seems to me that most US gamers go more for the MMORPG (WoW) or FPS (CoD4, MW2, Halo, etc.) than classic strategy games, whereas the Swedish, German, and Korean gamers, for example, prefer more cerebral strategy games.
Population does have something to do with it, you can't deny that. Even though the argument holds that the US has a significantly lower ratio of top players/population than, say, Sweden or Canada, you'll still see countries with larger populations (Germany, USA, Russia, etc.) represented at least moderately.
But yeah, it's definitely an interesting topic. Don't expect many sociologists to go exploring it any time soon though!
On August 26 2010 01:43 Scope wrote: As a Swede, I have a few theories as to why we have the most top players per capita (except for Korea I suppose). I think the same factors have a hand in Sweden's dominant position in the music industry.
Weather is crap 8 months out of the year. People stay indoors.
For the 3-4 months the weather is passable, there are summer vacations and school holds up.
We have the largest percentage of single households in the world, because of a number of cultural factors. Being alone isn't stigmatized in Sweden like it is in most places.
It is way way easier to be poor in Sweden, than in countries such as the US. Medical care is largely free. Public transportation is better, and in the cities there really is no reason to own a car. Even daycare is almost free, if you happen to reproduce.
Our internet connectivity has been very good for a long time.
Work days are shorter, tax breaks for people with low income are extensive, vacation time is far greater than in the US.
Some more tenuous theories: The parents of the generation of Swedes born in the eighties had the largest amount of divorces in Swedish history at least. One-parent households mean kids need to entertain themselves more, and guilty parents buy more expensive gifts such as computers.
Swedish culture is somewhat socially inhibited, compared to most of Europe. We are the koreans of Europe, I guess you could say. Nerdery comes naturally.
Sports and competitive play is and has always been a big deal here. Scrawny and fat kids want to compete as well.
On August 26 2010 01:43 Scope wrote: As a Swede, I have a few theories as to why we have the most top players per capita (except for Korea I suppose). I think the same factors have a hand in Sweden's dominant position in the music industry.
Weather is crap 8 months out of the year. People stay indoors.
For the 3-4 months the weather is passable, there are summer vacations and school holds up.
We have the largest percentage of single households in the world, because of a number of cultural factors. Being alone isn't stigmatized in Sweden like it is in most places.
It is way way easier to be poor in Sweden, than in countries such as the US. Medical care is largely free. Public transportation is better, and in the cities there really is no reason to own a car. Even daycare is almost free, if you happen to reproduce.
Our internet connectivity has been very good for a long time.
Work days are shorter, tax breaks for people with low income are extensive, vacation time is far greater than in the US.
Some more tenuous theories: The parents of the generation of Swedes born in the eighties had the largest amount of divorces in Swedish history at least. One-parent households mean kids need to entertain themselves more, and guilty parents buy more expensive gifts such as computers.
Swedish culture is somewhat socially inhibited, compared to most of Europe. We are the koreans of Europe, I guess you could say. Nerdery comes naturally.
Sports and competitive play is and has always been a big deal here. Scrawny and fat kids want to compete as well.
That's my 2 cents.
And the beer is sooo expensive in Sweden. ^^'
I think you definitely have to count in the US and Canada, they have a large amount of very good players, maybe not a "Superstar" (besides Idra), but nonetheless a good amount of Top-Players. But those countries are quite big, so that just comes naturally I guess. ^^'
Also, Russia could in the near future have lots of good players like BratOK, cuz they've always been a forced to be reckonned with in RTS-Games.
On August 26 2010 01:43 Scope wrote: As a Swede, I have a few theories as to why we have the most top players per capita (except for Korea I suppose). I think the same factors have a hand in Sweden's dominant position in the music industry.
Weather is crap 8 months out of the year. People stay indoors.
For the 3-4 months the weather is passable, there are summer vacations and school holds up.
We have the largest percentage of single households in the world, because of a number of cultural factors. Being alone isn't stigmatized in Sweden like it is in most places.
It is way way easier to be poor in Sweden, than in countries such as the US. Medical care is largely free. Public transportation is better, and in the cities there really is no reason to own a car. Even daycare is almost free, if you happen to reproduce.
Our internet connectivity has been very good for a long time.
Work days are shorter, tax breaks for people with low income are extensive, vacation time is far greater than in the US.
Some more tenuous theories: The parents of the generation of Swedes born in the eighties had the largest amount of divorces in Swedish history at least. One-parent households mean kids need to entertain themselves more, and guilty parents buy more expensive gifts such as computers.
Swedish culture is somewhat socially inhibited, compared to most of Europe. We are the koreans of Europe, I guess you could say. Nerdery comes naturally.
Sports and competitive play is and has always been a big deal here. Scrawny and fat kids want to compete as well.
That's my 2 cents.
sounds extremely similar to where I live and there were very very good players from broodwar in quebec, also we've got some of the best poker players here ;o
This topic is now about why the vast majority of canadian high-level players are from quebec.
In Canada, you can either be a winter olympian, or an indoor gamer. Similar to what people are saying about Sweden, you only ever go outside to shovel the snow that piles up so you can make it to the supermarket!
I thought about this a little last year or so, I was really in to the pro BW scene and was wondering why I didn't hear much about any top players from the UK. The way I see it for the UK is, it's a lot more console orientated. Most gamers either have an xbox or PS3, play MW2, halo wars and stuff like that. I don't know that many people who are in to PC gaming, yet pretty much every other person I know has a console. It's just the way the market has developed over here in the UK. I think it may be true also for the US to an extent.
Maybe for SC2 things will be different, a shiny new game with fancy new graphics can pull some people in. What top players do we have...DeMuslim, anyone else? I admit I haven't followed the pro SC2 scene too closely.
From what I've heard in many countries consoles are a lot less prevalent for whatever reason, so PC gaming is more popular, hence them churning out more pro starcraft/CS/quake etc players.
On August 26 2010 01:43 Scope wrote: I think the same factors have a hand in Sweden's dominant position in the music industry.
I didn't know about this. Can you elaborate or post a link?
Well I can elaborate a little bit. Sweden has a lot of very skilled producers and musicians who work with some of the most lucrative artists in the world. Practically every popstar you hate had Swedish hands working on the records. Max Martin is the most famous dude, working with Britney Spears and the like. Lady Gaga records some of her stuff in a studio three blocks away from my apartment.
And while we do have a few stars, (albeit mostly in the past, such as ABBA) most of the Swedish "talent" that are relevant on the world stage are behind-the-scenes people who work more or less alone in studios.
This seems similar to the E-sports fenomenon to me, although I don't want to be to firm in this comparison. It's just something I threw out there. Speaking from my own experience, my top interests have been music and gaming from the start. It sort of feels true, but I can't attest to it with any certainty.
On August 26 2010 01:31 Zevah wrote: It's not about population.. it's about Culture.
Do you see any South American in the top? no! they play soccer!
I don't believe that's the reason... South America is just isolated from the rest of the world at the moment. And without cross realm play in the horizon it will stay like this. South America had really good players in SC:BW, and A LOT of them.
On August 26 2010 00:48 retro-noob wrote: It seems like Korea, Canada, Ukraine, Sweden, and Germany are out in front right now if you look at countries that have produced multiple elite players, especially relative to their population.
The US has a lot of good players, but I feel like other than, Idra, they aren't considered top players. Also, the US is the most populous country on the scene BY FAR, so I'd expect even more from there.
I may be wrong on any or all of this, btw; I'm just basing it off some quick research and my memory.
Are these countries culturally more into games or RTS or StarCraft than others? Am I just imagining that those countries have a higher number of the top players right now?
I'd expect the US, France, Russia, the UK, Italy, Japan, Australia, China (though I don't know what rules there are in China around these games), Brazil, Spain, etc. to be putting equal numbers of people into the conversation for "best SC2 player."
Sweden is especially surprising just based on the population difference between them and these other countries. Why Sweden and not Austria, Switzerland, or Israel?
If I'm not wrong, what is it about those countries that have them producing so many good players per capita right now?
EDIT: Obviously, Korea is a special case, and I understand that one.
Uh, why did you list Canada as 2nd? What Canadian has won anything besides HuK, Drewbie, and TT1? Slush and KiwiKaki haven't won a single thing since beta, and there are no other good Canadians really.
Also, Germany? TLO and Socke are the only good Germans that have won anything.
USA has IdrA, iNkA, Select, KawaiiRice, Machine, PainUser, and a bunch of other strong players.
I think outside of Asia - Ukraine and Sweden are definitely the top nations, followed by USA.
On August 26 2010 01:01 iD.NicKy wrote: sweden because of their internet connection back then. germany because germans are always good at any sport. korea for the obvious reason Ukrainian have some top top players but not a lot of good players. Canada no idea why, maybe because they were french at first 8)
What's it like in France, Spain, and the UK?
France, Spain, Uk has a lot of good players but only few top players let's say demuslim/dapollo for UK, Lucifron for spain, sarens/moman for france
How can you call dapollo good when he's literally played in 0 tournaments? Just because he lives in Korea and gets interviewed by Artosis doesn't make him good. Also MoMaN isn't good , just because he bashes on newb French players and has a bunch of random french-only events added to his GG.net acc to get to 1100 points doesn't make him good. Check out his match list and see how many other European players he beats (basically 0).
So much bias. So Moman bashes french people and US players who apart from idra only win in-house tournaments deserve a mention?
Australia has the highest rate of piracy in the developed world, that shows an openness to technology! but i guess the pop is too small to get enough local competition and the weather is too nice (:
I still think the amount of high-level players are so small (we have what? less than 200 well-known) so this is all just statistic noise.
When/if starcraft and E-sport en general becomes much larger and we have 1000s of players competing for tournament places we could look at various countries demographic.
EPT
