On September 25 2010 23:09 RotterdaM wrote: Netherlands are gonna surprise many people as soon as the real nation wars are gonna start, Servyoa Ret NTT and nazghul if he keeps playing are all sickly good, wait and see :D
Knowing Nazgul and Ret from before, I do not doubt that they'll reach incredible heights when it comes to SC2. Netherlands had some real quality players back in SC:BW days, NTT, Ret, Nazgul, Twisted, Strafe for example.
On August 26 2010 01:43 Scope wrote: As a Swede, I have a few theories as to why we have the most top players per capita (except for Korea I suppose). I think the same factors have a hand in Sweden's dominant position in the music industry.
Weather is crap 8 months out of the year. People stay indoors.
For the 3-4 months the weather is passable, there are summer vacations and school holds up.
This what I immediately thought of when I read the original post. I believes Swedes are also known for heavy drinking.
Historically, yes. we had some problem with drinking in the beginning of the 1900s I believe.. Finland and Russia however has been, and are, far worse off when it comes to drinking issues (the sterotypical drunk in sweden speaks with a finnish accent LoL). I even think that English people drink more then we do, but I'm just guessing. Don't know what that has to do with gaming but whatever.. Would be cool to know where you're from to get an idea how much of an idea you actually have about Europe overall. (Americans tend to think that Sweden is a frozen wasteland with polarbears roaming about killing people at will, and that the actual name is Switzerland).
However I can only imagine that the more people are "forced" to stay indoors, the more they'll be attracted to computer games. It might not be a coincidence that thepiratebay is also swedish. We're indoorsy ^^
I'm in the US. I'm sure Finland is even worse, Sweden has a good bit of territory south of the southernmost part of Finland. I had a Russo-Finnish war board game back in the day that discussed the weather quite a bit and it sounded pretty brutal.
On September 25 2010 22:18 McFoo wrote: EU and NA would have a much bigger RTS scene if FPS games weren't stealing the spotlight. Damn that American entertainment that has got everyone hooked on guns. RTS games > FPS games in terms of how good they are as spectator sports.
Indeed! Also the skill cap on RTS is like enormous in comparison to FPS, where good reflexes in a braindead body probably could make anyone the best player in the world. Slight exaggeration, but you get the picture. RTS needs.. strategy. The one problem with RTS imho, from own experience, and when it comes to friends who I try to get playing sc2, is that the learning curve is pretty horrible.. If you don't look up build orders and such, you'll probably lose 99/100 games, while FPS and, even more so, RPGs are much more tolerant to noobs. It's actually quite intimidating to play RTS, especially with all the cheesing going on. Playing a couple of games, losing instantly and being placed in bronze league actually made my friend quit the game and going back to wow, stating that sc2 is boring
Yeah RTS is intimidating and you really need a community like TL that provides info for new players. Watching replays is important too. I don't necessarily agree that RTS has a much bigger skill cap than FPS, i'mnot really sure. FPS does require some strategy and obviously great mechanics. Same goes for fighters like Street Fighter. Fighters are good spectator sports too. Quake Live is better to watch than Counter Strike IMO:
On August 26 2010 01:43 Scope wrote: As a Swede, I have a few theories as to why we have the most top players per capita (except for Korea I suppose). I think the same factors have a hand in Sweden's dominant position in the music industry.
Weather is crap 8 months out of the year. People stay indoors.
For the 3-4 months the weather is passable, there are summer vacations and school holds up.
This what I immediately thought of when I read the original post. I believes Swedes are also known for heavy drinking.
Historically, yes. we had some problem with drinking in the beginning of the 1900s I believe.. Finland and Russia however has been, and are, far worse off when it comes to drinking issues (the sterotypical drunk in sweden speaks with a finnish accent LoL). I even think that English people drink more then we do, but I'm just guessing. Don't know what that has to do with gaming but whatever.. Would be cool to know where you're from to get an idea how much of an idea you actually have about Europe overall. (Americans tend to think that Sweden is a frozen wasteland with polarbears roaming about killing people at will, and that the actual name is Switzerland).
However I can only imagine that the more people are "forced" to stay indoors, the more they'll be attracted to computer games. It might not be a coincidence that thepiratebay is also swedish. We're indoorsy ^^
I'm in the US. I'm sure Finland is even worse, Sweden has a good bit of territory south of the southernmost part of Finland. I had a Russo-Finnish war board game back in the day that discussed the weather quite a bit and it sounded pretty brutal.
Well the weather here is about the same as in New York. I've never seen a blizzard or anything like that O.o A couple of hobos probably die every year from the cold, but that's about it. I wouldn't say it's brutal. It might be a bad time to get drunk and fall asleep on the ground though. When you say we have territory south of the southernmost part of Finland, I assume you mean parallelly. We havn't had territory south of Finland since.. uh.. the 18th century or something like that. But back then we also had Finland, Norway, Denmark and a good part of Russia and Germany as well lol. Was quite a while since I had history classes though, so I'm not 100% sure when it was ^^ The russo-finnish war probably is ww2 though (we call it the Finnish winter war, granpa was in there ^^), as Finland's only been a nation for like a 100 years or so.
When it comes to how the gamers survive, I'm pretty sure Morrow is 17 and still in school, so I assume he's living with his parents, and has a pretty sweet school that doesn't mind him going away for tournaments ^^
On September 25 2010 22:18 McFoo wrote: EU and NA would have a much bigger RTS scene if FPS games weren't stealing the spotlight. Damn that American entertainment that has got everyone hooked on guns. RTS games > FPS games in terms of how good they are as spectator sports.
Also the skill cap on RTS is like enormous in comparison to FPS, where good reflexes in a braindead body probably could make anyone the best player in the world. Slight exaggeration, but you get the picture. RTS needs.. strategy.
Please, don't speak about things you are clueless about. There's a lot of semi-elite players with way better aim than the players in the top-teams in CS yet they get totally crushed by the top-teams. Why? Because they have no strategy, no experience etc.
Since USA is a alot more populous than all the other countries it could easily sill be comparatively weak with regard to gaming i.e. gaming not being as popular.
Assuming the OP is right in the assessment of the different countries I think part of the reason is economy and climate as others are mentioning. In spain all year (slight exaggeration) you have the option of going to the beach and watching senoritas in their thongs, whereas in sweden/canada that might only be an option for one month a year. Colder weather just favors indoor activities. The other thing would be the afford-ability of pc's and internet connections not just today but also 10 years ago.
On August 26 2010 01:43 Scope wrote: As a Swede, I have a few theories as to why we have the most top players per capita (except for Korea I suppose). I think the same factors have a hand in Sweden's dominant position in the music industry.
Weather is crap 8 months out of the year. People stay indoors.
For the 3-4 months the weather is passable, there are summer vacations and school holds up.
This what I immediately thought of when I read the original post. I believes Swedes are also known for heavy drinking.
Historically, yes. we had some problem with drinking in the beginning of the 1900s I believe.. Finland and Russia however has been, and are, far worse off when it comes to drinking issues (the sterotypical drunk in sweden speaks with a finnish accent LoL). I even think that English people drink more then we do, but I'm just guessing. Don't know what that has to do with gaming but whatever.. Would be cool to know where you're from to get an idea how much of an idea you actually have about Europe overall. (Americans tend to think that Sweden is a frozen wasteland with polarbears roaming about killing people at will, and that the actual name is Switzerland).
However I can only imagine that the more people are "forced" to stay indoors, the more they'll be attracted to computer games. It might not be a coincidence that thepiratebay is also swedish. We're indoorsy ^^
I'm in the US. I'm sure Finland is even worse, Sweden has a good bit of territory south of the southernmost part of Finland. I had a Russo-Finnish war board game back in the day that discussed the weather quite a bit and it sounded pretty brutal.
Well the weather here is about the same as in New York. I've never seen a blizzard or anything like that O.o
Are you sure about that? Obviously the local geography will have a big influence like the golf stream in the atlantic passing by NY but still, NY is on the same latitude as part of Spain. I believe summers get pretty hot but I could be mistaken.
US definitely has a lot more players but I agree even in SC1 Canada dominated US by the fact that our players were better. (TT1 JF etc) Idra would be the only amazing US player out there atm. Canada has HuK Kiwikaki Drewbie and a lot more.
On September 25 2010 22:18 McFoo wrote: EU and NA would have a much bigger RTS scene if FPS games weren't stealing the spotlight. Damn that American entertainment that has got everyone hooked on guns. RTS games > FPS games in terms of how good they are as spectator sports.
Indeed! Also the skill cap on RTS is like enormous in comparison to FPS, where good reflexes in a braindead body probably could make anyone the best player in the world. Slight exaggeration, but you get the picture. RTS needs.. strategy. The one problem with RTS imho, from own experience, and when it comes to friends who I try to get playing sc2, is that the learning curve is pretty horrible.. If you don't look up build orders and such, you'll probably lose 99/100 games, while FPS and, even more so, RPGs are much more tolerant to noobs. It's actually quite intimidating to play RTS, especially with all the cheesing going on. Playing a couple of games, losing instantly and being placed in bronze league actually made my friend quit the game and going back to wow, stating that sc2 is boring
Yeah RTS is intimidating and you really need a community like TL that provides info for new players. Watching replays is important too. I don't necessarily agree that RTS has a much bigger skill cap than FPS, i'mnot really sure. FPS does require some strategy and obviously great mechanics. Same goes for fighters like Street Fighter. Fighters are good spectator sports too. Quake Live is better to watch than Counter Strike IMO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DreDIhnK-co
That is so incredibly bad, half of the game isn't even skill it's just spawn camping and getting lucky with weapons/armour. The only skill is pretty much equal to quick scoping in call of duty games which most good players can do.
On September 25 2010 22:18 McFoo wrote: EU and NA would have a much bigger RTS scene if FPS games weren't stealing the spotlight. Damn that American entertainment that has got everyone hooked on guns. RTS games > FPS games in terms of how good they are as spectator sports.
Indeed! Also the skill cap on RTS is like enormous in comparison to FPS, where good reflexes in a braindead body probably could make anyone the best player in the world. Slight exaggeration, but you get the picture. RTS needs.. strategy. The one problem with RTS imho, from own experience, and when it comes to friends who I try to get playing sc2, is that the learning curve is pretty horrible.. If you don't look up build orders and such, you'll probably lose 99/100 games, while FPS and, even more so, RPGs are much more tolerant to noobs. It's actually quite intimidating to play RTS, especially with all the cheesing going on. Playing a couple of games, losing instantly and being placed in bronze league actually made my friend quit the game and going back to wow, stating that sc2 is boring
Yeah RTS is intimidating and you really need a community like TL that provides info for new players. Watching replays is important too. I don't necessarily agree that RTS has a much bigger skill cap than FPS, i'mnot really sure. FPS does require some strategy and obviously great mechanics. Same goes for fighters like Street Fighter. Fighters are good spectator sports too. Quake Live is better to watch than Counter Strike IMO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DreDIhnK-co
That is so incredibly bad, half of the game isn't even skill it's just spawn camping and getting lucky with weapons/armour. The only skill is pretty much equal to quick scoping in call of duty games which most good players can do.
Yeah, i'm not an FPS player I just thought the match was entertaining. Anyway, this is really skilled stuff:
The Lim Yo-Hwan of Street Fighter, every sport has it's legends ^^.
On August 26 2010 01:43 Scope wrote: As a Swede, I have a few theories as to why we have the most top players per capita (except for Korea I suppose). I think the same factors have a hand in Sweden's dominant position in the music industry.
Weather is crap 8 months out of the year. People stay indoors.
For the 3-4 months the weather is passable, there are summer vacations and school holds up.
This what I immediately thought of when I read the original post. I believes Swedes are also known for heavy drinking.
Historically, yes. we had some problem with drinking in the beginning of the 1900s I believe.. Finland and Russia however has been, and are, far worse off when it comes to drinking issues (the sterotypical drunk in sweden speaks with a finnish accent LoL). I even think that English people drink more then we do, but I'm just guessing. Don't know what that has to do with gaming but whatever.. Would be cool to know where you're from to get an idea how much of an idea you actually have about Europe overall. (Americans tend to think that Sweden is a frozen wasteland with polarbears roaming about killing people at will, and that the actual name is Switzerland).
However I can only imagine that the more people are "forced" to stay indoors, the more they'll be attracted to computer games. It might not be a coincidence that thepiratebay is also swedish. We're indoorsy ^^
I'm in the US. I'm sure Finland is even worse, Sweden has a good bit of territory south of the southernmost part of Finland. I had a Russo-Finnish war board game back in the day that discussed the weather quite a bit and it sounded pretty brutal.
Well the weather here is about the same as in New York. I've never seen a blizzard or anything like that O.o A couple of hobos probably die every year from the cold, but that's about it. I wouldn't say it's brutal. It might be a bad time to get drunk and fall asleep on the ground though. When you say we have territory south of the southernmost part of Finland, I assume you mean parallelly. We havn't had territory south of Finland since.. uh.. the 18th century or something like that. But back then we also had Finland, Norway, Denmark and a good part of Russia and Germany as well lol. Was quite a while since I had history classes though, so I'm not 100% sure when it was ^^ The russo-finnish war probably is ww2 though (we call it the Finnish winter war, granpa was in there ^^), as Finland's only been a nation for like a 100 years or so.
When it comes to how the gamers survive, I'm pretty sure Morrow is 17 and still in school, so I assume he's living with his parents, and has a pretty sweet school that doesn't mind him going away for tournaments ^^
The winter in the southern part of Sweden might not be that brutal but here in the north its not unusual for the temperature to drop to -40 once or twice during the winter, and having 1-2 weeks of constant -30 to -35 is almost a given
IM sorry but saying the UK lacks competitiveness because of "do your best attitude" is farcicle. You either havnt visited the country or have met a very strange bunch of people. From my experience of growing up in the UK and playing numerous sports that sort of idea is non existent. Rugby, football, rowing, and every other sport I have played above the age of 8 is hugely competitive.
Now computer games arnt considered competitive as they are rarely considered anything other thana way to pass your time in between other activities. Saying that sport in the British society revolves around non competitiveness is laughable, the identification of gaming as something non competitive however is not.
Come to think of it. The US has alot of people playing SC2? Well thats not so true. I think American are nuts. They dont play RTS, they love FPS. I mean I can play FPS no problem but play EVERY FPS is insane, and Americans seems to do just that. An extremly(9.5/10)good RTS, RPG, game can sell like 2-3 millions in the US. But any FPS can achieve that in the US. Those good FPS like COD sell 10-20 millions copies? If American RTS players somehow can convert 1/3 of the FPS population, you may find some raw gem there,
After having read the whole thread I really want to move to Sweden! Not only do you have the best esports community in Europe but also you have the cutest girls in the world. <3
On August 26 2010 01:43 Scope wrote: As a Swede, I have a few theories as to why we have the most top players per capita (except for Korea I suppose). I think the same factors have a hand in Sweden's dominant position in the music industry.
Weather is crap 8 months out of the year. People stay indoors.
For the 3-4 months the weather is passable, there are summer vacations and school holds up.
This what I immediately thought of when I read the original post. I believes Swedes are also known for heavy drinking.
Historically, yes. we had some problem with drinking in the beginning of the 1900s I believe.. Finland and Russia however has been, and are, far worse off when it comes to drinking issues (the sterotypical drunk in sweden speaks with a finnish accent LoL). I even think that English people drink more then we do, but I'm just guessing. Don't know what that has to do with gaming but whatever.. Would be cool to know where you're from to get an idea how much of an idea you actually have about Europe overall. (Americans tend to think that Sweden is a frozen wasteland with polarbears roaming about killing people at will, and that the actual name is Switzerland).
However I can only imagine that the more people are "forced" to stay indoors, the more they'll be attracted to computer games. It might not be a coincidence that thepiratebay is also swedish. We're indoorsy ^^
I'm in the US. I'm sure Finland is even worse, Sweden has a good bit of territory south of the southernmost part of Finland. I had a Russo-Finnish war board game back in the day that discussed the weather quite a bit and it sounded pretty brutal.
Well the weather here is about the same as in New York. I've never seen a blizzard or anything like that O.o A couple of hobos probably die every year from the cold, but that's about it. I wouldn't say it's brutal. It might be a bad time to get drunk and fall asleep on the ground though. When you say we have territory south of the southernmost part of Finland, I assume you mean parallelly. We havn't had territory south of Finland since.. uh.. the 18th century or something like that. But back then we also had Finland, Norway, Denmark and a good part of Russia and Germany as well lol. Was quite a while since I had history classes though, so I'm not 100% sure when it was ^^ The russo-finnish war probably is ww2 though (we call it the Finnish winter war, granpa was in there ^^), as Finland's only been a nation for like a 100 years or so.
When it comes to how the gamers survive, I'm pretty sure Morrow is 17 and still in school, so I assume he's living with his parents, and has a pretty sweet school that doesn't mind him going away for tournaments ^^
The winter in the southern part of Sweden might not be that brutal but here in the north its not unusual for the temperature to drop to -40 once or twice during the winter, and having 1-2 weeks of constant -30 to -35 is almost a given
Yeah, but let's be honest.. how much people actually live in northern Sweden? 2000 people and 80 million elks? The vast majority lives in the southern part, and the biggest concentration is the captial (middle part). -20 once or twice during the winter, and -15 is almost a given. And yeah, we count in celcius degrees in Europe, incase this sounds weird in fahrenheit.
New York is a bit hotter than Sweden overall, yeah, but they have harsher winters.. (yet again, I don't take into account the few in the north.. that'd be like saying denmark is super cold, 'cause greenland is danish.. -.-) with like occational blizzards and stuff.. I have no clue where morrow and the other pro gamers live though, so maybe they're one of the poor souls living in the north without being able to open their front doors for all the snow that's gathered on the other side, and they all are forced to play games to feed their families LOL.
To sum this thread up: if you have a technically advanced country that's almost forced to do indoor activities during a great part of the year, you're bound to get some good gamers. P.S. sorry for all the flame toward northern swedes, finnish and norwegian people.. I'm not a racist, I hate everyone.
On September 26 2010 12:09 bonedriven wrote: That Japan doesn't like E-Sports at all is always a mystery to me.
Hope someone could enlighten me.
From what I know about the Japanese gaming scene(which may not be much), Japanese gamers are not really into online games. If you look at Japanese games sales most of the top games are usually for portable systems, mostly single player games, licensed games, or fighting games. From what I've heard of about Japanese games that have online multiplayer, a lot of people boot uninvited players out of their games. I think the fact that arcades are still popular in Japan might have something to do with the fact that the Japanese not playing or making online games. I remember an article on Famitsu magazine which had a survey about Japanese gamers opinions about FPS games. Most replies were either that they were to scared to play against those at higher skill levels or that they thought those types of games were pointless.
I have only played a small amount of Japanese only games and my role at CyAC (a Japanese esports site) is mostly dealing with the international community. Hopefully somebody who has more experience with Japanese gaming culture and communities can give you a better answer.
As a gamer in Sweden myself, outside of the SC community I can say growing up as a nerd with CS 1.5/1.6 and to notice that we were the top Counter-strike gamers in the world in like 03-04 with no real competition was wonderful. It's now in the later years the rest of the world has almost gone past the Swedes...
We also had the WoW guild Nihilum that was mainly Swedes, but then the same thing happened.
Hopefully we wont lose our SC2 players But I feel like every guy I know is a gamer, even the jocks/cool kids who's suppose to look down on the gamers. And I think the success of these past events may have helped the social acceptance of gaming in Sweden
EPT
