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On August 26 2010 01:01 iD.NicKy wrote:
sweden because of their internet connection back then.
germany because germans are always good at any sport.
korea for the obvious reason
Ukrainian have some top top players but not a lot of good players.
Canada no idea why, maybe because they were french at first 8)
What's it like in France, Spain, and the UK?
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On August 26 2010 00:56 Full wrote:
Some countries are more into gaming i assume..
and to be honest, asians are most probably just smarter than other races. Seems that way to me anyway.
So so wrong and kind of offending to me that you say this. They aren't "smarter", their culture is to excel in everything they do and the same goes for a lot of Europe like Germany.
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I think what he's talking about Saracen is that, aside from Idra, we haven't been talking about American players recently.
This might also be because the last big tournament that we've all been talking about was in Europe, so obviously we're talking more about European players right now.
I bet we'll see a lot of good American players in the HDH2.
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People often exaggerate the welfare of europe, saying stuff like "well they dont even have to work, they just get money for nothing", which isnt really the case.
It's more about the culture. Scandinavia/Germany has always been ahead in technology and therefore there are more sc2 players, simple as that. If you take a country like Spain or France, they arent as much into computers and such, so they obviously dont play sc2 as much.
Canada/Korea are the same. The only country i really dont understand is Ukraine. Could just be coincidence though, since i've only really heard of white-ra and dimaga.
So yea, it's all about culture.
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On August 26 2010 01:03 Ketara wrote:
I think what he's talking about Saracen is that, aside from Idra, we haven't been talking about American players recently.
This might also be because the last big tournament that we've all been talking about was in Europe, so obviously we're talking more about European players right now.
I bet this is a big part of it. Good point.
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On August 26 2010 01:02 retro-noob wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2010 01:01 iD.NicKy wrote:
sweden because of their internet connection back then.
germany because germans are always good at any sport.
korea for the obvious reason
Ukrainian have some top top players but not a lot of good players.
Canada no idea why, maybe because they were french at first 8) What's it like in France, Spain, and the UK?
France, Spain, Uk has a lot of good players but only few top players
let's say demuslim/dapollo for UK, Lucifron for spain, sarens/moman for france
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The internet connections in Sweden are SO much better than in the US.
I remember the last time I was in Sweden visiting friends, we were downloading movies in HD in like 10 minutes. It made me jealous.
I wouldn't say Sweden and Germany are more ahead technologically though. Maybe they have a more technology-sensitive culture, but my friends in Sweden were still all using American made computers for their fancy internet connections.
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On August 26 2010 01:02 retro-noob wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2010 01:01 iD.NicKy wrote:
sweden because of their internet connection back then.
germany because germans are always good at any sport.
korea for the obvious reason
Ukrainian have some top top players but not a lot of good players.
Canada no idea why, maybe because they were french at first 8) What's it like in France, Spain, and the UK?
AFAIK The UK gaming scene has never really concentrated on RTS's with the British progaming groups concentrating on FPS tourneys like CS / COD1/2 / MOH etc. Also PC gaming in the UK seems to be at a similar percentage to the US one, however due to the far lower number of actual gamers theres less high skilled ones.
Note: These are opinions based on basically nothing but my own experiences.
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population vs top player ratio i think its like sweden, canada, germany at the top or something like that
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On August 26 2010 00:50 PhiliBiRD wrote:
haha, someone is apparently biased against Americans..way to show it so blatantly.
6 of the top 10 on ladder right now are from US. all with win % that are just as good.
Actually that doesn't account for the fact that the US ladder is easier then the Asian or European ones.
The same held true on the wc3 ladders, the Azeroth and Lordaeron servers (US east, west) were of much lower caliber then the Asian (kalimdor) and Northrend (euro) ones.
It was such a discrepancy that top Asian players would make accounts on the american servers, level them up with good records and sell them off.
Showtime.WeRRa essentially dropped off the proscene, gained a reputation on his account rival.showtime on US servers by having a insanely good record. Then he leveled accounts, sold lessons, sold arranged team games with people on the US servers. This type of stuff was so prevalent and so many people bought profiles.
I feel thats also partly why Blizzard decided on the one profile per account, and locked servers for now.
I went off on a tangent.
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The "welfare state" discussion reminds me of whenever a new instance comes out in WoW and the Europeans get a world-first kill despite getting access to the boss a day later. The amount of people saying that every European is a jobless, government-leeching hobo afterwards always makes me grin.
It's more about the culture. Scandinavia/Germany has always been ahead in technology and therefore there are more sc2 players, simple as that. If you take a country like Spain or France, they arent as much into computers and such, so they obviously dont play sc2 as much.
This feels more accurate to me. Swedes especially seem to enjoy their internet and gaming, so it's becoming a large part of their culture. It's also why you don't see too many English (British) pros, it's not a big part of how we spend our free time, for the majority, so there's a smaller pool.
Trying to say what countries are better than others is a hard call, though. I'd honestly stick by region, where I think we're looking at a Asia > Europe > US scale. IdrA as ever is the exception, but for the most part the Europeans seem to be doing better in tournaments and have been since the beta. I'm willing to be proved wrong, however.
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On August 26 2010 01:18 Kisra wrote:The "welfare state" discussion reminds me of whenever a new instance comes out in WoW and the Europeans get a world-first kill despite getting access to the boss a day later. The amount of people saying that every European is a jobless, government-leeching hobo afterwards always makes me grin. Show nested quote +It's more about the culture. Scandinavia/Germany has always been ahead in technology and therefore there are more sc2 players, simple as that. If you take a country like Spain or France, they arent as much into computers and such, so they obviously dont play sc2 as much. This feels more accurate to me. Swedes especially seem to enjoy their internet and gaming, so it's becoming a large part of their culture. It's also why you don't see too many English (British) pros, it's not a big part of how we spend our free time, for the majority, so there's a smaller pool. Trying to say what countries are better than others is a hard call, though. I'd honestly stick by region, where I think we're looking at a Asia > Europe > US scale. IdrA as ever is the exception, but for the most part the Europeans seem to be doing better in tournaments and have been since the beta. I'm willing to be proved wrong, however.
Okay, tell me which inter-regional tournaments the Europeans have done well in compared to the other regions. My memory may be bad, but the only inter-regional tournament that comes to mind is the KotB tournament where IdrA won, and none of the Europeans even made the semifinals.
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Canada is good, because they have the same as Grrr...`s blood.
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I think its the competative mindset we have in sweden, It's the same in other "real" sports as well, sweden is very good in comparison to how many ppl live here. Yea and it was the same inte both bw and wc3. Some of you might remember the names of; saft, willet, trek, daaman, kenka etc...
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The US has a lot of top players. The reason you don't put them at the top is because there are so many players at the top level of US right now, that its hard to distinguish who is better, who will be there in a years time, etc. Wait for it to weed out a bit and certain players will probably start pulling ahead and there will be more notable names of "US Players". Right now its just a giant cluster of players who occasionally win tournaments here and there. No one is solidified any sort of lead so it seems like no one is at the top, when in actuality a lot of players are at the top.
At least that's my opinion.
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I'm not sure you can really argue which of the top players are better than which of the other top players are better, country by country. Personally, I just haven't seen enough games pitting Europeans against Asians or Americans or whatever.
It's really hard to get a sense of how the regions match up against each other because they're seperate, and I'm sure not many people buy 3 accounts so they can play in 3 regions.
You can talk about how many top players a country has relative to their population size however, which I think was the topic in discussion. Things like gaming sensitive culture, how easy it is to spend more time gaming, and etc all factor into that.
And it's true that not every European is a "jobless, government-leeching hobo", but it's also true that the social programs in Europe and even their attitude towards vacation time on jobs puts them a big step above the US in this regard. It's unheard of to take an entire year off of work with pay in the US, but in England that's actually not too uncommon.
As an example, I have a British friend who, 3 or 4 years ago, took a year off of work with pay, moved to New Zealand, and ended up playing professional rugby for one season while he was there. Is he a good rugby player? Yes. Does he want to do that his entire life? No. But if he was an American, he wouldn't have had the chance to do it for the one year, because no American job lets you take an entire year off of work.
Also we don't play rugby.
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On August 26 2010 01:27 Alou wrote:
The US has a lot of top players. The reason you don't put them at the top is because there are so many players at the top level of US right now, that its hard to distinguish who is better, who will be there in a years time, etc. Wait for it to weed out a bit and certain players will probably start pulling ahead and there will be more notable names of "US Players". Right now its just a giant cluster of players who occasionally win tournaments here and there. No one is solidified any sort of lead so it seems like no one is at the top, when in actuality a lot of players are at the top.
At least that's my opinion.
That's another good point.
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On August 26 2010 00:48 retro-noob wrote:
It seems like Korea, Canada, Ukraine, Sweden, and Germany are out in front right now if you look at countries that have produced multiple elite players, especially relative to their population.
The US has a lot of good players, but I feel like other than, Idra, they aren't considered top players. Also, the US is the most populous country on the scene BY FAR, so I'd expect even more from there.
I may be wrong on any or all of this, btw; I'm just basing it off some quick research and my memory.
Are these countries culturally more into games or RTS or StarCraft than others? Am I just imagining that those countries have a higher number of the top players right now?
I'd expect the US, France, Russia, the UK, Italy, Japan, Australia, China (though I don't know what rules there are in China around these games), Brazil, Spain, etc. to be putting equal numbers of people into the conversation for "best SC2 player."
Sweden is especially surprising just based on the population difference between them and these other countries. Why Sweden and not Austria, Switzerland, or Israel?
If I'm not wrong, what is it about those countries that have them producing so many good players per capita right now?
EDIT: Obviously, Korea is a special case, and I understand that one.
Uh, why did you list Canada as 2nd? What Canadian has won anything besides HuK, Drewbie, and TT1? Slush and KiwiKaki haven't won a single thing since beta, and there are no other good Canadians really.
Also, Germany? TLO and Socke are the only good Germans that have won anything.
USA has IdrA, iNkA, Select, KawaiiRice, Machine, PainUser, and a bunch of other strong players.
I think outside of Asia - Ukraine and Sweden are definitely the top nations, followed by USA.
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On August 26 2010 01:02 ckw wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2010 00:56 Full wrote:
Some countries are more into gaming i assume..
and to be honest, asians are most probably just smarter than other races. Seems that way to me anyway.
So so wrong and kind of offending to me that you say this. They aren't "smarter", their culture is to excel in everything they do and the same goes for a lot of Europe like Germany.
Is there any proof of this? Don't try and inform unless you have actual evidence to back it up.
If something is offensive, it certainly does not make it false.
I believe that many asians are genetically smarter than other races, or atleast find it easier to learn. but i'm not trying to inform you, im merely giving my opinion.
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It's not about population.. it's about Culture.
Do you see any South American in the top? no! they play soccer!
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EPT
