EPTView: Roach nerf was a mistake. - Page 11
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Ploppytheman
United States248 Posts
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DennyR
Germany379 Posts
play roach+ultra plus antiair if needed lategame and you wont have a problem anymore. I usually play roaches all the time, because they give you freedom to expand safely and with the third base up, you have enough economy to support an ultraheavyarmy. And how could you make roaches 1supply without screwing ZvP? I think the real problem in the ZvT matchup is thors antiair attack. The range is just sick and the splash makes mutas just useless in my opinion. I loved to play muta baneling when the tank/marinepush was so popular in the end of phase two but terran changed back to one single thor wich shuts down every harras you can do with mutas. | ||
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phyre112
United States3090 Posts
Really the thing that Z needs right now is MORE units that are DIFFERENT from what we have right now. And that will come with HoTS... it just sucks that we have to wait years for it to happen. | ||
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Raelcun
United States3747 Posts
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HaGuN
United States154 Posts
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mprs
Canada2933 Posts
So I'm not really sure. | ||
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f0rk
England172 Posts
Infestors on the other hand are definitely an easy target for some zerg buffs. Zerg are missing viable openers (as the OP says) and I think some changes to early game to give more options would go a long way too fixing zerg. I really like the idea of tier 1 infestors, leaving NP as a t2 upgrade (probably should change it's duration back). Infested terrans give some more t1 anti air and fungal growth is a very strong spell, but there is a very high gas cost for the tech and unit so I don't see it as too OP, easily comparable to sentries at least. I hope Blizzard either make changes very very soon, or leave it a month as there are at least 3 big LAN events in August that could be ruined by fresh patches. | ||
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Orzabal
France287 Posts
On August 05 2010 05:06 iCCup.Raelcun wrote: YOu can't have burrow before lair as that gives you a cloaked unit before most of the detection is available in the game, the ability to burrow and have your roaches disappear before it's even possible to have an observer out and forcing terrans to make an engineering bay as one of their first buildings and then not have enough units to defend against the roaches is just too powerful. Mmm It is true if Roach get Burrowed movement with Burrow research. In BW burrow was before lair. | ||
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Pinstripes
17 Posts
On August 05 2010 05:08 iCCup.Raelcun wrote: 1.5 supply only works if they hatch 2 at a time and with the zerg larva mechanic this would make roaches disgustingly powerful with the ability to hatch them at a ridiculous rate. Why do two have to come out of one? They could just come out as 1.5 supply put of one. | ||
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Defrag
Poland414 Posts
On August 05 2010 05:01 iCCup.Raelcun wrote: I see roaches used daily by the top zergs in north america, I skimmed the rest of your post but didn't read it because your main point is false. The entire OP is based around a statement that is false. Plus use the word troll right http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=130403 want a few more specific comments? Your comment about ZvZ is true in the lwoer play but 1 base roach is becoming more popular to STOP the kind of baneling shenanigans that you're ranting about. 1supply roach doesnt work unless you nerf the shit out of it and then it becomes a useless unit that is 1 supply wow very good. Ultras on lower tech is laughable as they're so fucking strong at the moment. Basically please watch more truly high level games before you comment on this or use replays to support your evidence. One base roach doesnt do the job on any map with a bigger choke that one that can be blocked by 4 roaches. If you want we can try, np. Also on any other map besides desert oasis speedling/bling player will just put down expo as soon as he sees roaches and 5 crawlers in it. There you go with the game. Why wouldnt 1 supply roach work at all? It was 1 supply before patch 12 and close to noone was whining about roaches at that point since it was standard to counter them easy after armor/regeneration nerfs. Yeah, thats why I proposed a change ( nerf ) of Ultras, read the f$%@*()($ post and then write seriously. Show me the games with roach usage please by top players especially where zerg doesnt get steam rolled, I would be delighted. Pretty please. | ||
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Ploppytheman
United States248 Posts
On August 05 2010 05:08 HaGuN wrote: so um OP do you have any balance testing experience or are a game balance designer and have done rigorous study in game design/theory? I'm sure Blizzard knows what they are doing, as they have teams for this kind of thing, that are getting paid no doubt. I love when people stay stupid things like this. Blizzard couldn't balance a beach ball on a tennis racket. Go play WoW Arena for a season. I trust the opinions of high levels players way more than Blizzard but I do take it with a grain of salt. The current map pool might have a lot to do with why Zerg seems to suffer vs T. I really feel like certain maps punish P/Z too much. In fact Xel Naga Caverns is broken for PvZ. Unit diversity is an issue as well. ANother option would be make tanks over fire again. I really think thats the best/easiest solution, and to compensate their damage can be upped. | ||
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Mowe
Sweden16 Posts
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0neder
United States3733 Posts
Race balance is fine, the map pool just needs to be better. More maps like Desert Oasis, but with less vulnerable natural. | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
he has more units than you could ever hope to kill, and theres no way youre going to win if he gets 3 bases Im 100% in favor of the change | ||
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RoarMan
Canada745 Posts
On August 05 2010 05:08 phyre112 wrote: The units Zerg has right now are just fine as far as I'm concerned, as a zerg player. The only problem that is apparent to me is a lack of diversity - and if you want tot alk abotu beating a dead horse, just bring up THAT subject. It would be nice to see the roach returned a bit to its original role, which was supposed to be tanking damage/regeneration, but at one supply it would absolutely be OP. Really the thing that Z needs right now is MORE units that are DIFFERENT from what we have right now. And that will come with HoTS... it just sucks that we have to wait years for it to happen. Agreed, right now any numbers we're punching in here is nothing but theory crafting. Changing supply numbers might be nice but I'd like to see more drastic changes like giving them Burrowed Movement at the start or increasing their HP regen like in their earlier states. | ||
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PanzerDragoon
United States822 Posts
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arthur
United Kingdom488 Posts
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Defrag
Poland414 Posts
On August 05 2010 05:25 arthur wrote: The roach nerf was much needed and praised by many non Z and Z players alike. Therefore I didn't read your thread and have nothing constructive to say, other than if they lowered it down to 1 food, it will just need putting back up to 2 after a few weeks. The thread I linked after patch12 with the change went live says otherwise about opinions of player pool. | ||
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Raelcun
United States3747 Posts
On August 05 2010 05:16 Defrag wrote: Why wouldnt 1 supply roach work at all? It was 1 supply before patch 12 and close to noone was whining about roaches at that point since it was standard to counter them easy after armor/regeneration nerfs. Are you serious? Because if so you just weren't paying attention 1 supply roaches were rather stupidly overpowered kind of why Idra went fast expo hatch first into mass roaches every game even on steppes of war. On August 05 2010 05:16 Defrag wrote: Show me the games with roach usage please by top players especially where zerg doesnt get steam rolled, I would be delighted. Pretty please. Oh and heres a replay too lazy to find you more but it happened last night SLush vs LzGamer is that a high enough level game for you? http://www.root-gaming.com/replay/slush-vs-lzgamer-lost-temple | ||
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Wolf
Korea (South)3290 Posts
On August 05 2010 05:29 iCCup.Raelcun wrote: Are you serious? Because if so you just weren't paying attention 1 supply roaches were rather stupidly overpowered kind of why Idra went fast expo hatch first into mass roaches every game even on steppes of war. Oh and heres a replay too lazy to find you more but it happened last night SLush vs LzGamer is that a high enough level game for you? http://www.root-gaming.com/replay/suggy-vs-lzgamer-lost-temple That was such a good game, too. Definitely check it out. | ||
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