EPTDavid Kim on potential beta changes (Feb 4th,2013) - Page 26
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baba1
Canada355 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On February 07 2013 02:00 Plansix wrote: This is totally incorrect and yet another one of the insane myths of BW. BW had tons of weird damage amounts and values that took place under the hood. Concussive damage, explosive damage and all other damage types that did weird things to specific units. If anything, BWs damage system was less upfront with what it was doing and harder to follow. That doesn't mean it's a good developement, does it? I don't believe that this is supergimmicky or something, but from the perspective of a new player, it might go like this: "Spore does 15+15 vs bio, so spores are meant to be used vs bio. My opponent has built void rays. Conclusion: Spores are bad in this situation." Or "widow mines do extra vs shields. So they must be bad vs zerg!" At least I think the tags are very unintuitive as they are now. Especially if the shield thing goes through, because there is actually no tag at all for "shielded" or something like that. | ||
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
On February 07 2013 02:23 Cyro wrote: Hellions have 30 initial damage in a wide AOE cone and medivac speed boost prevents you from being able to pull workers away. If you split them, you will most likely lose 2-5x as many as you would compared to getting dropped by marines of equal value. In terms of workers lost from protoss perspective, a medivac with a bunch of stimless marines early game is not scary at all. He cant even catch the probes to kill any of them because he will only scratch a few when he is dropping the marines. Stim + medivacs, terran is either super all in (1 base) or we are talking 10 minute mark or so, there are much better tools to deal with it. Later in the game you can just have 10+ warpgates and half a dozen cannons/templar if there is a lot of drop threat, its a non issue. Its incredibly easy to lose 15 workers to medivac+battlehellion drop when terran loses nothing, though, in comparison. read my quote if you are too retarded to pull workers on time, we shouldn't nerf the unit for you. what does this unit accomplish that normal hellion drops cant? besides not being able to chase fleeing worker lines? seriously man this game will play itself if we keep patching based on emotions/mental deficiency | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On February 07 2013 03:00 baba1 wrote: Apparently queens + roaches are not so good vs Hellbat drops http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lt-x6VW7zk&feature=youtu.be&t=5m18s Yup. 8 Hellbats beats 4 roaches at melee range. The video teaches nothing. | ||
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
On February 07 2013 03:16 Thieving Magpie wrote: Yup. 8 Hellbats beats 4 roaches at melee range. The video teaches nothing. besides that QXC can make zergs look silly by winning after taking gas before dropping his CC LOL | ||
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FLuE
United States1012 Posts
I'd love to see a Terran late game upgrade that speeds up all mech transformation. Have it be an upgrade on the armory perhaps, basically cut transformation time by 25-50%(whatever number isn't OP). Siege/unsiege faster. Hellbats to helions faster. Viking land to air faster, etc. I think this would help make Mech better late game so that you could do things like transform your hellbats and retreat, and reduce the amount of times Terran get caught unsieged and just lose. Not sure if this breaks TvT, but just a thought. | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
On February 07 2013 03:00 baba1 wrote: Apparently queens + roaches are not so good vs Hellbat drops http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lt-x6VW7zk&feature=youtu.be&t=5m18s obviously a WoL based strategy doesn't really apply 100% of the time to HotS | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On February 07 2013 03:29 FLuE wrote: Hellbats are one of the unit introductions that at this point I find to be a great addition and needed for Terran. If some damage needs tweaking fine, but I like the idea of the bio/mech combo. Plus I think it helps make helions more viable late game by allowing that transformation, and can create some cool micro situations switching between the two. I'd love to see a Terran late game upgrade that speeds up all mech transformation. Have it be an upgrade on the armory perhaps, basically cut transformation time by 25-50%(whatever number isn't OP). Siege/unsiege faster. Hellbats to helions faster. Viking land to air faster, etc. I think this would help make Mech better late game so that you could do things like transform your hellbats and retreat, and reduce the amount of times Terran get caught unsieged and just lose. Not sure if this breaks TvT, but just a thought. Battle hellion transform upgrade = backflip when transforming. Then I switch to Terran. | ||
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Patate
Canada441 Posts
On February 07 2013 03:29 FLuE wrote: Hellbats are one of the unit introductions that at this point I find to be a great addition and needed for Terran. If some damage needs tweaking fine, but I like the idea of the bio/mech combo. Plus I think it helps make helions more viable late game by allowing that transformation, and can create some cool micro situations switching between the two. I'd love to see a Terran late game upgrade that speeds up all mech transformation. Have it be an upgrade on the armory perhaps, basically cut transformation time by 25-50%(whatever number isn't OP). Siege/unsiege faster. Hellbats to helions faster. Viking land to air faster, etc. I think this would help make Mech better late game so that you could do things like transform your hellbats and retreat, and reduce the amount of times Terran get caught unsieged and just lose. Not sure if this breaks TvT, but just a thought. WHAT? seriously? How about race design? I don't see that many differences between the roach, the zealot, and the hellbat from a unit design. Going back to Brood War, the unit the closest to the hellbat was the Firebat.. and it had what? 50 hp? It wasn't meant to be a terran zealot, it was meant to be able to land hits on zerglings (was pretty much shit against anything else). As for zergs, their 75 mins-25 gas unit was the hydralisk, which in no way was a buffed tanky unit. Only Toss had the zealot, which respected the race design that a protoss in a one vs one should pretty much always win (except ultralisk which is at the high end of the tech tree) | ||
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
Sorry, but if you can't deal with them it's because you're being out-tech'd like only having marines/marauder against a WoL Z's infestor/ling army. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On February 07 2013 04:01 Patate wrote: WHAT? seriously? How about race design? I don't see that many differences between the roach, the zealot, and the hellbat from a unit design. Going back to Brood War, the unit the closest to the hellbat was the Firebat.. and it had what? 50 hp? It wasn't meant to be a terran zealot, it was meant to be able to land hits on zerglings (was pretty much shit against anything else). As for zergs, their 75 mins-25 gas unit was the hydralisk, which in no way was a buffed tanky unit. Only Toss had the zealot, which respected the race design that a protoss in a one vs one should pretty much always win (except ultralisk which is at the high end of the tech tree) Technically--they're trying to make Terran the "adaptable" race through unit transformations and unit fusions. Siege Tanks Vikings Hellions Planetary Fortress SCVs (workers AND healers) Medivac From this design point, the Hellbat actually fits like a glove and is something Terran has needed. Whether this is a good design choice is arbitrary--to say that the Hellbat does not fit is folly. | ||
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Disastorm
United States922 Posts
On February 07 2013 04:05 Hattori_Hanzo wrote: Guys, hellbats are tier 2 units on par with Thor or Goliath, the equalivalent of Lair's Infestors. Sorry, but if you can't deal with them it's because you're being out-tech'd like only having marines/marauder against a WoL Z's infestor/ling army. I guess thats true, maybe we can get infestors that cost only minerals. | ||
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captainwaffles
United States1050 Posts
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On February 07 2013 04:14 Disastorm wrote: I guess thats true, maybe we can get infestors that cost only minerals. Fair trade--give Terran Ravens that can be built 7-8 at a time with just one starport  Different races are different... | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On February 07 2013 04:16 c0sm0naut wrote: panzer isn't in code s for a reason He's above it | ||
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Protosnake
France295 Posts
On February 07 2013 03:16 Thieving Magpie wrote: Yup. 8 Hellbats beats 4 roaches at melee range. The video teaches nothing. What about the part where he stim the medivac, drop the hellbat at super speed in the mineral line then pick them up when he lose the fight Then he do it again And again. So no matter what you do or have, terran doesnt care, he will kill your drones | ||
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On February 07 2013 04:35 Protosnake wrote: What about the part where he stim the medivac, drop the hellbat at super speed in the mineral line then pick them up when he lose the fight Then he do it again And again. So no matter what you do or have, terran doesnt care, he will kill your drones Yes.... medivacs can drop units, then retreat with them when things are going bad... This does not sound like a hellbat problem... | ||
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FLuE
United States1012 Posts
On February 07 2013 04:01 Patate wrote: WHAT? seriously? How about race design? I don't see that many differences between the roach, the zealot, and the hellbat from a unit design. Going back to Brood War, the unit the closest to the hellbat was the Firebat.. and it had what? 50 hp? It wasn't meant to be a terran zealot, it was meant to be able to land hits on zerglings (was pretty much shit against anything else). As for zergs, their 75 mins-25 gas unit was the hydralisk, which in no way was a buffed tanky unit. Only Toss had the zealot, which respected the race design that a protoss in a one vs one should pretty much always win (except ultralisk which is at the high end of the tech tree) I threw race design out the window a long time ago, Blizzard doesn't seem to care to a certain degree so I'm just looking for units that offer something new and interesting and the idea of a unit that is mechanical at one time, repaired by SCV's and bio at another time healed by medivacs seems to offer a unique direction and a way to allow a unit to be more functional more often. I just feel when playing the game is to much about having the exact right unit at the exact right time, and if you don't no amount of micro or skill will save you, you simply lose. Finding ways to keep units relevant more often is a good thing to me. It makes it more about having good engagements, and less about "he built X so I built Y and I win." The option for terran to go hellions early to open the game, and then flow that into hellbat drops/hellbat play later in the game seems to flow well. As it is now if you open hellions and don't do some damage they tend to serve less purpose as the game goes on and then just end up being wasted supply you just throw away. I agree I'd rather have my interesting and dynamic races and units, but apparently we aren't getting that so at least this is better than a small fast moving air circle with a laser or a giant ship that hits things from really far away. | ||
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