On February 07 2013 03:00 baba1 wrote: Apparently queens + roaches are not so good vs Hellbat drops
Yup.
8 Hellbats beats 4 roaches at melee range.
The video teaches nothing.
What about the part where he stim the medivac, drop the hellbat at super speed in the mineral line then pick them up when he lose the fight Then he do it again And again.
So no matter what you do or have, terran doesnt care, he will kill your drones
Yes.... medivacs can drop units, then retreat with them when things are going bad...
This does not sound like a hellbat problem...
You missed the part where the medivac go faster than the drone Also I never said it was pure hellbat problem
On February 07 2013 03:29 FLuE wrote: Hellbats are one of the unit introductions that at this point I find to be a great addition and needed for Terran. If some damage needs tweaking fine, but I like the idea of the bio/mech combo. Plus I think it helps make helions more viable late game by allowing that transformation, and can create some cool micro situations switching between the two.
I'd love to see a Terran late game upgrade that speeds up all mech transformation. Have it be an upgrade on the armory perhaps, basically cut transformation time by 25-50%(whatever number isn't OP). Siege/unsiege faster. Hellbats to helions faster. Viking land to air faster, etc. I think this would help make Mech better late game so that you could do things like transform your hellbats and retreat, and reduce the amount of times Terran get caught unsieged and just lose. Not sure if this breaks TvT, but just a thought.
WHAT? seriously?
How about race design? I don't see that many differences between the roach, the zealot, and the hellbat from a unit design. Going back to Brood War, the unit the closest to the hellbat was the Firebat.. and it had what? 50 hp? It wasn't meant to be a terran zealot, it was meant to be able to land hits on zerglings (was pretty much shit against anything else). As for zergs, their 75 mins-25 gas unit was the hydralisk, which in no way was a buffed tanky unit. Only Toss had the zealot, which respected the race design that a protoss in a one vs one should pretty much always win (except ultralisk which is at the high end of the tech tree)
I threw race design out the window a long time ago, Blizzard doesn't seem to care to a certain degree so I'm just looking for units that offer something new and interesting and the idea of a unit that is mechanical at one time, repaired by SCV's and bio at another time healed by medivacs seems to offer a unique direction and a way to allow a unit to be more functional more often.
I just feel when playing the game is to much about having the exact right unit at the exact right time, and if you don't no amount of micro or skill will save you, you simply lose. Finding ways to keep units relevant more often is a good thing to me. It makes it more about having good engagements, and less about "he built X so I built Y and I win."
The option for terran to go hellions early to open the game, and then flow that into hellbat drops/hellbat play later in the game seems to flow well. As it is now if you open hellions and don't do some damage they tend to serve less purpose as the game goes on and then just end up being wasted supply you just throw away.
I agree I'd rather have my interesting and dynamic races and units, but apparently we aren't getting that so at least this is better than a small fast moving air circle with a laser or a giant ship that hits things from really far away.
In fairness to SC2--BW's "dynamic races and units" were not actually that Dynamic.
For example, SC2 whines that Mech is not viable in TvP outside of timing attacks. But that was the exact same problem with bio play in TvP in BW. Firebats were, for the most part, useless. There was no firebat heavy unit composition that walked around taking map control and threatening expansions with its fire damage. Scouts? Queens?
There was a lot of strategies and units that were not up to par--very similarly to SC2.
The actual problem comes from entertainment output. Sure, scouts were not as powerful as Voidrays meaning toss airplay was either overlord harass or turtle to carriers. But are voidray timings really that interesting? Not having the option to play a macro bio game in TvP during BW was a great hindrance--but did SC2's bio centric play have to come at the cost of Mech play?
Too often things in SC2 are different at the cost of something from BW when what people want is the good stuff in SC2 being added with the good stuff in BW.
^ So true. TvP was all about mech in BW because bio did NOT work. Like at all. You were basicly forced into mech because all bio melted in seconds so it was not even an option. Now terrans want both of the better worlds with viable mech and viable bio..
On February 07 2013 03:29 FLuE wrote: Hellbats are one of the unit introductions that at this point I find to be a great addition and needed for Terran. If some damage needs tweaking fine, but I like the idea of the bio/mech combo. Plus I think it helps make helions more viable late game by allowing that transformation, and can create some cool micro situations switching between the two.
I'd love to see a Terran late game upgrade that speeds up all mech transformation. Have it be an upgrade on the armory perhaps, basically cut transformation time by 25-50%(whatever number isn't OP). Siege/unsiege faster. Hellbats to helions faster. Viking land to air faster, etc. I think this would help make Mech better late game so that you could do things like transform your hellbats and retreat, and reduce the amount of times Terran get caught unsieged and just lose. Not sure if this breaks TvT, but just a thought.
WHAT? seriously?
How about race design? I don't see that many differences between the roach, the zealot, and the hellbat from a unit design. Going back to Brood War, the unit the closest to the hellbat was the Firebat.. and it had what? 50 hp? It wasn't meant to be a terran zealot, it was meant to be able to land hits on zerglings (was pretty much shit against anything else). As for zergs, their 75 mins-25 gas unit was the hydralisk, which in no way was a buffed tanky unit. Only Toss had the zealot, which respected the race design that a protoss in a one vs one should pretty much always win (except ultralisk which is at the high end of the tech tree)
I threw race design out the window a long time ago, Blizzard doesn't seem to care to a certain degree so I'm just looking for units that offer something new and interesting and the idea of a unit that is mechanical at one time, repaired by SCV's and bio at another time healed by medivacs seems to offer a unique direction and a way to allow a unit to be more functional more often.
I just feel when playing the game is to much about having the exact right unit at the exact right time, and if you don't no amount of micro or skill will save you, you simply lose. Finding ways to keep units relevant more often is a good thing to me. It makes it more about having good engagements, and less about "he built X so I built Y and I win."
The option for terran to go hellions early to open the game, and then flow that into hellbat drops/hellbat play later in the game seems to flow well. As it is now if you open hellions and don't do some damage they tend to serve less purpose as the game goes on and then just end up being wasted supply you just throw away.
I agree I'd rather have my interesting and dynamic races and units, but apparently we aren't getting that so at least this is better than a small fast moving air circle with a laser or a giant ship that hits things from really far away.
In fairness to SC2--BW's "dynamic races and units" were not actually that Dynamic.
For example, SC2 whines that Mech is not viable in TvP outside of timing attacks. But that was the exact same problem with bio play in TvP in BW. Firebats were, for the most part, useless. There was no firebat heavy unit composition that walked around taking map control and threatening expansions with its fire damage. Scouts? Queens?
There was a lot of strategies and units that were not up to par--very similarly to SC2.
The actual problem comes from entertainment output. Sure, scouts were not as powerful as Voidrays meaning toss airplay was either overlord harass or turtle to carriers. But are voidray timings really that interesting? Not having the option to play a macro bio game in TvP during BW was a great hindrance--but did SC2's bio centric play have to come at the cost of Mech play?
Too often things in SC2 are different at the cost of something from BW when what people want is the good stuff in SC2 being added with the good stuff in BW.
Maybe, but Blizzard can't bake in the complexity of BW. It needs to develop over time, just like BW. Even if the new styles are not exactly what we saw in BW, the complexity will build with HotS and we will see new things. Chess and poker are not "complex" games, but the depth to the strategy is vast due to how much people have played it. But they did not start that way.
Development takes time, which most people forget. Even a direct port of BW into the SC 2 engine would take years to reach the same level the BW prime was. Creating complexity through conflict is nothing more than trial and error, over and over.
On February 07 2013 03:29 FLuE wrote: Hellbats are one of the unit introductions that at this point I find to be a great addition and needed for Terran. If some damage needs tweaking fine, but I like the idea of the bio/mech combo. Plus I think it helps make helions more viable late game by allowing that transformation, and can create some cool micro situations switching between the two.
I'd love to see a Terran late game upgrade that speeds up all mech transformation. Have it be an upgrade on the armory perhaps, basically cut transformation time by 25-50%(whatever number isn't OP). Siege/unsiege faster. Hellbats to helions faster. Viking land to air faster, etc. I think this would help make Mech better late game so that you could do things like transform your hellbats and retreat, and reduce the amount of times Terran get caught unsieged and just lose. Not sure if this breaks TvT, but just a thought.
WHAT? seriously?
How about race design? I don't see that many differences between the roach, the zealot, and the hellbat from a unit design. Going back to Brood War, the unit the closest to the hellbat was the Firebat.. and it had what? 50 hp? It wasn't meant to be a terran zealot, it was meant to be able to land hits on zerglings (was pretty much shit against anything else). As for zergs, their 75 mins-25 gas unit was the hydralisk, which in no way was a buffed tanky unit. Only Toss had the zealot, which respected the race design that a protoss in a one vs one should pretty much always win (except ultralisk which is at the high end of the tech tree)
Yeah, bio play in BW was shit. I don't get why you want to have that back... Edit: minus TvZ ofc
Not to mention that there are already so many exceptions to your "design rule" in BW (from the mentioned Ultralisks to BCs, Siege Tanks, Devourer, Vulture - stuff that is all quite superior to certain similar tech/role/cost Protoss units). Not to mention, that in SC2 Stalkers still beat any other same tier unit minus the marauder in a 1v1 situation...
On February 07 2013 03:29 FLuE wrote: Hellbats are one of the unit introductions that at this point I find to be a great addition and needed for Terran. If some damage needs tweaking fine, but I like the idea of the bio/mech combo. Plus I think it helps make helions more viable late game by allowing that transformation, and can create some cool micro situations switching between the two.
I'd love to see a Terran late game upgrade that speeds up all mech transformation. Have it be an upgrade on the armory perhaps, basically cut transformation time by 25-50%(whatever number isn't OP). Siege/unsiege faster. Hellbats to helions faster. Viking land to air faster, etc. I think this would help make Mech better late game so that you could do things like transform your hellbats and retreat, and reduce the amount of times Terran get caught unsieged and just lose. Not sure if this breaks TvT, but just a thought.
WHAT? seriously?
How about race design? I don't see that many differences between the roach, the zealot, and the hellbat from a unit design. Going back to Brood War, the unit the closest to the hellbat was the Firebat.. and it had what? 50 hp? It wasn't meant to be a terran zealot, it was meant to be able to land hits on zerglings (was pretty much shit against anything else). As for zergs, their 75 mins-25 gas unit was the hydralisk, which in no way was a buffed tanky unit. Only Toss had the zealot, which respected the race design that a protoss in a one vs one should pretty much always win (except ultralisk which is at the high end of the tech tree)
Yeah, bio play in BW was shit. I don't get why you want to have that back...
Not to mention that there are already so many exceptions to your "design rule" in BW (from the mentioned Ultralisks to BCs, Siege Tanks, Devourer, Vulture - stuff that is all quite superior to certain similar tech/role/cost Protoss units). Not to mention, that in SC2 Stalkers still beat any other same tier unit minus the marauder in a 1v1 situation...
bio play in TvZ was really fun in broodwar, insane apm requirments on both sides at the higher levels
On February 07 2013 03:29 FLuE wrote: Hellbats are one of the unit introductions that at this point I find to be a great addition and needed for Terran. If some damage needs tweaking fine, but I like the idea of the bio/mech combo. Plus I think it helps make helions more viable late game by allowing that transformation, and can create some cool micro situations switching between the two.
I'd love to see a Terran late game upgrade that speeds up all mech transformation. Have it be an upgrade on the armory perhaps, basically cut transformation time by 25-50%(whatever number isn't OP). Siege/unsiege faster. Hellbats to helions faster. Viking land to air faster, etc. I think this would help make Mech better late game so that you could do things like transform your hellbats and retreat, and reduce the amount of times Terran get caught unsieged and just lose. Not sure if this breaks TvT, but just a thought.
WHAT? seriously?
How about race design? I don't see that many differences between the roach, the zealot, and the hellbat from a unit design. Going back to Brood War, the unit the closest to the hellbat was the Firebat.. and it had what? 50 hp? It wasn't meant to be a terran zealot, it was meant to be able to land hits on zerglings (was pretty much shit against anything else). As for zergs, their 75 mins-25 gas unit was the hydralisk, which in no way was a buffed tanky unit. Only Toss had the zealot, which respected the race design that a protoss in a one vs one should pretty much always win (except ultralisk which is at the high end of the tech tree)
Yeah, bio play in BW was shit. I don't get why you want to have that back...
Not to mention that there are already so many exceptions to your "design rule" in BW (from the mentioned Ultralisks to BCs, Siege Tanks, Devourer, Vulture - stuff that is all quite superior to certain similar tech/role/cost Protoss units). Not to mention, that in SC2 Stalkers still beat any other same tier unit minus the marauder in a 1v1 situation...
bio play in TvZ was really fun in broodwar, insane apm requirments on both sides at the higher levels
deep 6 was still the most fun bo to do on iccup vs p xd
On February 07 2013 05:15 baba1 wrote: ^ So true. TvP was all about mech in BW because bio did NOT work. Like at all. You were basicly forced into mech because all bio melted in seconds so it was not even an option. Now terrans want both of the better worlds with viable mech and viable bio..
No. SC2 is a total of 3 games. There's no reason Terrans should be pigeonholed into a bio that gets stomped late-game for the entire 5 year duration of WoL + HotS.
Exactly! We saw new timings tons in WoL but after some time and a little strategizing, they got figured out. The roach max is one example. When it first came out it looked borderline impossible to hold without either losing your third or losing your entire army but after a while people started figuring out how to hold it and soon it was essentially gone. These hellbat drops will probably be the same deal, after people start figuring out how to defend them they will go away. If in a few months they are still rampant and winning Terran too many games, then maybe they should be looked at for balance.
Every zerg was telling Protoss to build Immortal, and every protoss was still thinking that immortal had still 5 range or some shit, but yeah, some thing got figured out What about the thing that didnt got figured out ? What about 1 supply roach ? It's pretty much the same issue as the Hellbat right now
But people are already starting to figure out defenses against hellbat drops as has been stated many times, you just seem to be ignoring that. There is a significant difference in the 1-supply roach and the hellbat. The hellbat requires armory tech and medivacs, which is a significant gas investment, which basically means if you don't do significant damage, you lose because teching that hard puts you way behind. The 1 supply roach only required a 150 mineral building that only requires spawning pool before being built and was around at a time when you could literally walk across a map in two or three screens, making the roach even stronger, even if it had one less range. You simply cannot compare the two.
The reason I am so against them nerfing hellbats is that they aren't really super strong outside of drops so nerfing them would turn them into the new WOL reaper where they get treated like the ugly stepchild of Terran. If they have to nerf something, it should be to make the NOS system on medivacs be a cheap upgrade to allow it to be accessible for regular pushes but not really early for gimmicky builds.
Exactly! We saw new timings tons in WoL but after some time and a little strategizing, they got figured out. The roach max is one example. When it first came out it looked borderline impossible to hold without either losing your third or losing your entire army but after a while people started figuring out how to hold it and soon it was essentially gone. These hellbat drops will probably be the same deal, after people start figuring out how to defend them they will go away. If in a few months they are still rampant and winning Terran too many games, then maybe they should be looked at for balance.
Every zerg was telling Protoss to build Immortal, and every protoss was still thinking that immortal had still 5 range or some shit, but yeah, some thing got figured out What about the thing that didnt got figured out ? What about 1 supply roach ? It's pretty much the same issue as the Hellbat right now
But people are already starting to figure out defenses against hellbat drops as has been stated many times, you just seem to be ignoring that. There is a significant difference in the 1-supply roach and the hellbat. The hellbat requires armory tech and medivacs, which is a significant gas investment, which basically means if you don't do significant damage, you lose because teching that hard puts you way behind. The 1 supply roach only required a 150 mineral building that only requires spawning pool before being built and was around at a time when you could literally walk across a map in two or three screens, making the roach even stronger, even if it had one less range. You simply cannot compare the two.
The reason I am so against them nerfing hellbats is that they aren't really super strong outside of drops so nerfing them would turn them into the new WOL reaper where they get treated like the ugly stepchild of Terran. If they have to nerf something, it should be to make the NOS system on medivacs be a cheap upgrade to allow it to be accessible for regular pushes but not really early for gimmicky builds.
Another easy way to fix hellbat drops would be to get rid of the bonus vs light entirely and let the blue flame upgrade affect them again.
Edit: Probably with a pretty significant bonus to it's affect though.
Anyway, I think Hellbats are pretty boring units overall, basically a move versions of hellions. I'd love to have a different new unit or a buff to siege tanks rather than the hellbat.
Exactly! We saw new timings tons in WoL but after some time and a little strategizing, they got figured out. The roach max is one example. When it first came out it looked borderline impossible to hold without either losing your third or losing your entire army but after a while people started figuring out how to hold it and soon it was essentially gone. These hellbat drops will probably be the same deal, after people start figuring out how to defend them they will go away. If in a few months they are still rampant and winning Terran too many games, then maybe they should be looked at for balance.
Every zerg was telling Protoss to build Immortal, and every protoss was still thinking that immortal had still 5 range or some shit, but yeah, some thing got figured out What about the thing that didnt got figured out ? What about 1 supply roach ? It's pretty much the same issue as the Hellbat right now
But people are already starting to figure out defenses against hellbat drops as has been stated many times, you just seem to be ignoring that. There is a significant difference in the 1-supply roach and the hellbat. The hellbat requires armory tech and medivacs, which is a significant gas investment, which basically means if you don't do significant damage, you lose because teching that hard puts you way behind. The 1 supply roach only required a 150 mineral building that only requires spawning pool before being built and was around at a time when you could literally walk across a map in two or three screens, making the roach even stronger, even if it had one less range. You simply cannot compare the two.
The reason I am so against them nerfing hellbats is that they aren't really super strong outside of drops so nerfing them would turn them into the new WOL reaper where they get treated like the ugly stepchild of Terran. If they have to nerf something, it should be to make the NOS system on medivacs be a cheap upgrade to allow it to be accessible for regular pushes but not really early for gimmicky builds.
Another easy way to fix hellbat drops would be to get rid of the bonus vs light entirely and let the blue flame upgrade affect them again.
I'm getting tired of this WoW mentality where if something is hard people simply yell at Blizzard instead of changing map design and re-evaluating standard play.
On February 07 2013 05:15 baba1 wrote: ^ So true. TvP was all about mech in BW because bio did NOT work. Like at all. You were basicly forced into mech because all bio melted in seconds so it was not even an option. Now terrans want both of the better worlds with viable mech and viable bio..
No. SC2 is a total of 3 games. There's no reason Terrans should be pigeonholed into a bio that gets stomped late-game for the entire 5 year duration of WoL + HotS.
The point that he is making that players should not feel that they should be able to play the exact style they want to play, all the time. A lot of players want “mech” play, but they keep complaining that it does not conform to their concept of how mech should be played. This is not everyone, but some of the complainers(who I am convinced want the game to be like tower defense, but with siege tanks) just will never be happy until they can build the exact number of units they want to build.
This is not to say I don’t think the factory units need work. I like the change to the widow mine and it should be awesome to watch it blast stalkers off the map. The tempest needs work too, as it is slightly to awesome. The Medivac speed might have to short of a cool down(and looks so dumb). All that can be worked through over time. But some of the complaining boils down to “Why haven’t they “fixed” the game so I can play the exact way I want to.” At some point that becomes a little silly.
Exactly! We saw new timings tons in WoL but after some time and a little strategizing, they got figured out. The roach max is one example. When it first came out it looked borderline impossible to hold without either losing your third or losing your entire army but after a while people started figuring out how to hold it and soon it was essentially gone. These hellbat drops will probably be the same deal, after people start figuring out how to defend them they will go away. If in a few months they are still rampant and winning Terran too many games, then maybe they should be looked at for balance.
Every zerg was telling Protoss to build Immortal, and every protoss was still thinking that immortal had still 5 range or some shit, but yeah, some thing got figured out What about the thing that didnt got figured out ? What about 1 supply roach ? It's pretty much the same issue as the Hellbat right now
But people are already starting to figure out defenses against hellbat drops as has been stated many times, you just seem to be ignoring that. There is a significant difference in the 1-supply roach and the hellbat. The hellbat requires armory tech and medivacs, which is a significant gas investment, which basically means if you don't do significant damage, you lose because teching that hard puts you way behind. The 1 supply roach only required a 150 mineral building that only requires spawning pool before being built and was around at a time when you could literally walk across a map in two or three screens, making the roach even stronger, even if it had one less range. You simply cannot compare the two.
The reason I am so against them nerfing hellbats is that they aren't really super strong outside of drops so nerfing them would turn them into the new WOL reaper where they get treated like the ugly stepchild of Terran. If they have to nerf something, it should be to make the NOS system on medivacs be a cheap upgrade to allow it to be accessible for regular pushes but not really early for gimmicky builds.
Another easy way to fix hellbat drops would be to get rid of the bonus vs light entirely and let the blue flame upgrade affect them again.
I'm getting tired of this WoW mentality where if something is hard people simply yell at Blizzard instead of changing map design and re-evaluating standard play.
edit: Masters Terran on HotS and WoL, and I think Medivac Hellbat is extremely fun. The only problem I have with it atm is how good it is at both killing units and workers. It 2 shots workers (similar to how blue flame hellions used to, before they got nerfed) but can also stand toe to toe with roaches. With good medivac micro drones can't really run away either. I feel like killing workers in 3 shots would be more reasonable, the tactic would still be powerful but not nearly so much as it is now, and it wouldn't affect hellbat vs queen or hellbat vs roach dynamics at all.
Exactly! We saw new timings tons in WoL but after some time and a little strategizing, they got figured out. The roach max is one example. When it first came out it looked borderline impossible to hold without either losing your third or losing your entire army but after a while people started figuring out how to hold it and soon it was essentially gone. These hellbat drops will probably be the same deal, after people start figuring out how to defend them they will go away. If in a few months they are still rampant and winning Terran too many games, then maybe they should be looked at for balance.
Every zerg was telling Protoss to build Immortal, and every protoss was still thinking that immortal had still 5 range or some shit, but yeah, some thing got figured out What about the thing that didnt got figured out ? What about 1 supply roach ? It's pretty much the same issue as the Hellbat right now
But people are already starting to figure out defenses against hellbat drops as has been stated many times, you just seem to be ignoring that. There is a significant difference in the 1-supply roach and the hellbat. The hellbat requires armory tech and medivacs, which is a significant gas investment, which basically means if you don't do significant damage, you lose because teching that hard puts you way behind. The 1 supply roach only required a 150 mineral building that only requires spawning pool before being built and was around at a time when you could literally walk across a map in two or three screens, making the roach even stronger, even if it had one less range. You simply cannot compare the two.
The reason I am so against them nerfing hellbats is that they aren't really super strong outside of drops so nerfing them would turn them into the new WOL reaper where they get treated like the ugly stepchild of Terran. If they have to nerf something, it should be to make the NOS system on medivacs be a cheap upgrade to allow it to be accessible for regular pushes but not really early for gimmicky builds.
Another easy way to fix hellbat drops would be to get rid of the bonus vs light entirely and let the blue flame upgrade affect them again.
I'm getting tired of this WoW mentality where if something is hard people simply yell at Blizzard instead of changing map design and re-evaluating standard play.
Are you saying you actually like Hellbat design? I honestly think it's probably the single most boring unit that's come out of HotS so far.
I always thought the Hellbat was bad ass. A giant, flame shooting robot with huge shields on its fists that also transforms into a highspeed, flame shooting car. There are whole movie scripts based around such a concept(Fast and Furious 13 – Future wars). The only thing that could make that unit better is if the robots punched with giant flame shooting shield fists.
Exactly! We saw new timings tons in WoL but after some time and a little strategizing, they got figured out. The roach max is one example. When it first came out it looked borderline impossible to hold without either losing your third or losing your entire army but after a while people started figuring out how to hold it and soon it was essentially gone. These hellbat drops will probably be the same deal, after people start figuring out how to defend them they will go away. If in a few months they are still rampant and winning Terran too many games, then maybe they should be looked at for balance.
Every zerg was telling Protoss to build Immortal, and every protoss was still thinking that immortal had still 5 range or some shit, but yeah, some thing got figured out What about the thing that didnt got figured out ? What about 1 supply roach ? It's pretty much the same issue as the Hellbat right now
But people are already starting to figure out defenses against hellbat drops as has been stated many times, you just seem to be ignoring that. There is a significant difference in the 1-supply roach and the hellbat. The hellbat requires armory tech and medivacs, which is a significant gas investment, which basically means if you don't do significant damage, you lose because teching that hard puts you way behind. The 1 supply roach only required a 150 mineral building that only requires spawning pool before being built and was around at a time when you could literally walk across a map in two or three screens, making the roach even stronger, even if it had one less range. You simply cannot compare the two.
The reason I am so against them nerfing hellbats is that they aren't really super strong outside of drops so nerfing them would turn them into the new WOL reaper where they get treated like the ugly stepchild of Terran. If they have to nerf something, it should be to make the NOS system on medivacs be a cheap upgrade to allow it to be accessible for regular pushes but not really early for gimmicky builds.
Another easy way to fix hellbat drops would be to get rid of the bonus vs light entirely and let the blue flame upgrade affect them again.
I'm getting tired of this WoW mentality where if something is hard people simply yell at Blizzard instead of changing map design and re-evaluating standard play.
Are you saying you actually like Hellbat design? I honestly think it's probably the single most boring unit that's come out of HotS so far.
I like the design of a Hellion having the ability to lose speed in favor of strength. I like the idea of a strong unit losing power for more mobility. I like it on the Siege tank, I like it on the Viking, and I like it on the Hellion. Saying you don't like the design of Hellions transforming into Hellbats is the same as you saying you don't like the design of Siege Tanks into Siege Mode Siege Tanks.
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