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I'm here to guess what? Spur on some discussion about this.
Blizzard has been known in the past to pretty much ax/kill Terran things (it happens unintentionally or not) and the new medivac healing rate upgrade was most recently flat out removed...
What did people think of this?
For me personally, I loved this upgrade because it allowed me to play bio into lategame against Protoss on even footing vs mass AOE splash, as well as help mitigate their new threats...
TvP bio vs Protoss in lategame in wings of liberty suffers from the good ol "mass warp-in chargelots" type of thing and suffers from AOE damage quite a bit.
This new upgrade was great for bio lategame and is now gone with the reasoning "we wanted medivacs to be used with hellbats..."
I think there is a disconnect here. Blizzard is hell bent driven on people using a MECH UNIT, the battle hellion, as a bio unit, and according to David Kim they axed this upgrade because they "didn't expect people to use the healing upgrade with marine marauder" my response to that is, "wat the?"
I have played both mech and bio styles against Protoss before. For obvious reasons, bio is the go-to, but the reasoning for them removing this, that "we wanted you to use it with a mech unit, the battle hellion" just seems really bad reasoning to me.
I know as a Terran there's a "we can't have nice things" rule apparently in place, but who would love that they put this back into the game? I would love it, and I'm one of the most hardcore "i want mech to be viable" guys out there.
The thing is, bio is fun as well to watch/play, and it'd be great if they made that more viable in lategame too...which is sorta what the medivac healing upgrade did...
Poll: Did you like the medivac healing rate upgrade?No (245) 52% Yes (230) 48% 475 total votes Your vote: Did you like the medivac healing rate upgrade? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Poll: Would you like to see this upgrade put back into the game?No (236) 52% Yes (219) 48% 455 total votes Your vote: Would you like to see this upgrade put back into the game? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Considering all of the new toys the other races have gotten, it'd be great if Terran had some too (and kept them for more than 1 patch where it's immediately nerfed/removed from the game 
Additional poll:
Poll: Revert battle hellion to being a MECH UNIT?Yes (232) 64% God Yes (77) 21% No (55) 15% 364 total votes Your vote: Revert battle hellion to being a MECH UNIT? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): God Yes
(Vote): No
And yes, the last poll is a loaded question :D it's just silly that D Kim is latching onto this idea of making a mech unit into a bio unit and this fantastical world where everyone masses hellions and medivacs together.
Discuss!
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Remember that there is still an upgrade and that upgrade still does add some stuf to your medivacs.
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On January 10 2013 23:26 AdrianHealey wrote:
Remember that there is still an upgrade and that upgrade still does add some stuf to your medivacs.
For all intensive purposes the upgrade is now worthless.
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Your third poll shouldnt have 3 answers, it makes it look ridicoulus. Bio is made to be mobile, it shouldnt win against death balls, it should force the enemy to split his army smart and make them get destroyed by bio because the armys are smaller now. That,s why the movement speed boost is good but the healing rate bad.
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On January 10 2013 23:27 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 23:26 AdrianHealey wrote:
Remember that there is still an upgrade and that upgrade still does add some stuf to your medivacs. For all intensive purposes the upgrade is now worthless.
Not really, it still decreases the amount of energy needed to heal your units making your medivac longer useful. It is by no means useless.
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On January 10 2013 23:31 D4V3Z02 wrote:
Your third poll shouldnt have 3 answers, it makes it look ridicoulus. Bio is made to be mobile, it shouldnt win against death balls, it should force the enemy to split his army smart and make them get destroyed by bio because the armys are smaller now. That,s why the movement speed boost is good but the healing rate bad.
Bio did not win against deathballs 1A vs 1A. It gave you slightly more leeway lategame to make a mistake, just like Protoss has that leeway with mass warpgated chargelot/archon reinforcements.
In my opinion it made it so when suddenly those 10-20 zealots warp-in after a battle, and you have your few remaining units, it's not an insta-loss anymore...and perhaps this is what players were not used to.
Everyone is used to, "oh i won the battle, ZZ ZZ ZZZZZZ *warps in units right there* *wins*"
Whereas the medivac healing rate upgrade gave Terran bio something lategame where Protoss could not necessarily do that as easily anymore. Instead they'd have to warp-in back home.
Just my thoughts. It was only given 2 patches before they removed it with suspect reasoning.
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United States4883 Posts
In defense of bio versus mass zealot warpins in the lategame: the new hellions make zealots LOL, so I actually don't mind it as much. As long as you're fairly equal on upgrades and have a SINGLE reactor factory, you can have 4+ hellions out for the zealot warpin. 4 hellions practically one-shot clumps of zealots.
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I think it was removed because MMM against Zerg was way too imbalanced in the lategame. Think about it, a Terran should NEVER be able to go MMM against Zerg hive units and win; marines and marauders are tier1 units, but yet were keeping up with brood lord/ultralisk/infestor compositions because the medivacs kept any bio units from ever dying. I dont care about the matchup or race involved, tier1 units should get wrecked by tier3 units on a cost-efficiency basis in a straight-up fight. No exceptions.
EDIT: That being said, to keep on topic, I think the improved healing rate upgrade should be reinstated, just toned down a little bit. Also the cooldown ability seriously f***ing needs to cost energy or have a longer cooldown. Refer to other threads as to why, but it needs to happen.
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Blizzards reasoning aside the upgrade was simply too good.
When terrans are starting to skip ghosts in favor of more medivacs despite heavy storm use you know things have gone too far.
Putting too much focus on bio was also a poor idea. It only makes sense given how misguided their attempts to make mech work are so far.
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I liked the upgrade, I just thought the numbers were too high. Would have rather seen Blizzard tone down the numbers slightly, or get rid of the increased healing per energy first.
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No! Didn't like the upgrade...it made the target of the heal too beefy...What I'd like to see are two upgrades for medivacs.
One that allows the medivac to heal two units at once (still same energy cost/hp healed though, so double energy cost when two beams are active)
One that increases the energy regen of medivacs
Should increase the efficiency of medivacs together with large bio forces quite a bit without turning high armor ground targets nigh invincible.
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I don't agree with you but I agree that battlefield warp in is too good. Units should receive 50% more damage during warpin.
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I always thought the upgrade should have been Advanced Healing AI- instead of doubling the rate, give the Medivac two normal heal beams.
That's better for surviving AoE and worse for... keeping 1 marine alive between two mineral patches.
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I think it was definitely too strong, however now it's just useless. It's never an issue in the lategame having enough Medivac energy, this just makes feedback worse :D
Instead it should maybe be stronger but more expensive heal, or perhaps it now can heal beam two units at the same time.
Also i want to address the fact that the Fusion Core is actually an upgrader for fleet armies, which means there should be more upgrades on it, rather than just Battle Cruiser upgrades, instead of having Fusion Core allows for your Tech Lab to upgrade Medivac healing, it should instead be an upgrade on Fusion Core itself.
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I liked how the new medivac sort of balanced out lategame bio vs P. It's good if T doesn't have the feeling of being on a clock too much and the lategame scenario is sort of balanced.
I don't like this being done by a medivac buff though. The unit is already crazy strong with the new thrusters and even good for mech now.. The effects on TvP were fine but for TvZ it was a bit too good making those late drops rediculously strong, especially now with the nerfed infestor.
A different small buff to bio lategame would be better I think. Preferrably something gas intensive so bio play actually has a use for extra gas unlike the almost pure mineral usage they have now. For example ghosts, ravens or battlecruisers could be buffed to be just a tad better lategame. Ghosts a bit of extra hp / dmg, ravens might already be useful now or battlecruisers could have their anti-ground damage buffed a bit to early WoL levels.
This would pretty much have the same effect as the medivac buff for TvP i think but wouldn't make drops so rediculously strong in TvZ
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On January 10 2013 23:27 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 23:26 AdrianHealey wrote:
Remember that there is still an upgrade and that upgrade still does add some stuf to your medivacs. For all intensive purposes the upgrade is now worthless.
What about non-intensive purposes?
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Have people calling it worthless actually tested it or just assuming that?
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On January 11 2013 02:19 FLuE wrote:
Have people calling it worthless actually tested it or just assuming that?
Assuming. The patch has been out for a day and no one has gotten the full breath of the changes yet. It is a less in your face upgrade and make fewer medivacs more effective at healing large groups. It is not something that is going to noticable up in the first 10 games you play.
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On January 11 2013 02:15 Jackle wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 23:27 avilo wrote:On January 10 2013 23:26 AdrianHealey wrote:
Remember that there is still an upgrade and that upgrade still does add some stuf to your medivacs. For all intensive purposes the upgrade is now worthless. What about non-intensive purposes?
I know you are making a funny, but his misuse of the expression actually makes some sense here. Useless for intensive purposes, as it won't help you in a fight, but not for non-intensive purposes since medivac downtime is shortened.
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Blizzard just can't change things freely like that. If Mech doesn't work, how about make all mech units biological so they can be healed by medivac? You don't do that. Their method is just outright nonsensical.
Just make hellbat mechanical only. Medivac can still heal marauders and marines in your comp, and hellbat doesn't need to be healed. Why they just don't get it.
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EPT
