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Carrier Micro - Page 3

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
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Gofarman
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada648 Posts
September 16 2012 21:18 GMT
#41
Wow, never knew that about BW Carriers. Tyvm
Talin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Montenegro10532 Posts
September 16 2012 21:20 GMT
#42
I actually had no idea about the keeping Interceptors outside trick haha. All this time I thought it was just using the leash range on target switching, and you get full/instant burst only when target switching quickly.

Awesome video for educational purposes alone, doubt anything will come of it in SC2 though.
neoghaleon55
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7435 Posts
September 16 2012 21:26 GMT
#43
wouldn't the use of Queue commands make carrier micro be really easy?
moo...for DRG
Kaleidos
Profile Joined October 2010
Italy172 Posts
September 16 2012 21:26 GMT
#44
I would rate the target switching micro as #1 need for the carrier.
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8751 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-16 21:37:33
September 16 2012 21:28 GMT
#45
On September 17 2012 06:15 thedeadhaji wrote:
There's a bunch of differences between BW and SC2 Carrier micro details that you listed out, and I'm wondering in what order would you personally like to have "returned" to its former state?

Here are the ones I can recall:

1. Target switching in leash zone
2. Able to self select / target interceptors
3. Continuous deployment of interceptors while moving

Also, the movement pattern of the interceptors seem quite different between BW and SC2, which would affect the "death rate" and "dps rate" of interceptors I imagine.

Target switching in leash zone is the most important.

Being able to target individual interceptors is probably the lowest. That's really just meant to make carriers more difficult to use but it is kind of luck based and not the smoothest way to balance them. Enemies don't really want to do that either. A-move will always be the best method of killing interceptors (aside from possibly with abilities).

Continuous deployment of interceptors while moving I think is really really cool but is the easiest thing to classify as a buggy behavior. I hope we can get it though because it takes so much attention and skill to use effectively. It is very strong but becomes incredibly difficult to do as soon as your opponent forces action in two places at once. So the players are countering each other by doing increasingly difficult strategies and that is AWESOME. The protoss player got the carriers knowing they'll be sufficiently effective ONLY IF he can pull off this micro. The enemy's response is not to bang his head against this really strong micro but rather to split the protoss's attention, punishing him for having tunnel vision on his carriers. Someone is gonna make a mistake and miscalculate and that's how the game should be decided.

If the continuous deployment of interceptors ISN'T in the game, then interceptor healing is pretty much just a straight buff. There isn't really any tension if both things aren't in the game.

All these mechanics sort of tie in to each other. A lot of times the continuous deployment of interceptors isn't used for long stretches, but rather for very short stretches, like in a single battle when the carriers want to pull really far back for a moment and then go right back in. If they don't have continuous deployment of interceptors, they get significantly punished for leaving battles even for a split second. So in such a case, it's basically the same as target switching but with a very short retreat between targets.

Related note: If there isn't continuous deployment, then you are significantly punishing the carrier user for leaving leash range. And when that wasn't a mistake, but rather a "tactical retreat", then the carrier starts to feel like a shitty unit again. If the carrier was too strong, I wouldn't want to see it balanced that way because it's just making it a frustrating unit.
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
SpiZe
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada3640 Posts
September 16 2012 21:29 GMT
#46
It's funny because just yesterday I was playing some BW with friends and I just went carriers and had so much fun microing them around, in sc2 it's just not possible to micro carrier the same way. They're just big chunk of burst damage and there is no terrain abuse or cool micro to do with them
oneill12
Profile Joined February 2012
Romania1222 Posts
September 16 2012 21:31 GMT
#47
i hope they give the carrier back its abilities
Kommatiazo
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States579 Posts
September 16 2012 21:31 GMT
#48
If you weren't already respected and loved, you would be now. This was one of the most quality posts I've ever seen. So good!

I for one, have always loved the carrier, and I was one of those fans who back in BW "didn't understand the mechanics of carrier micro, but could tell the difference between good carrier micro and bad carrier micro," but now since you posted this, I'm so much more educated in my carrier fanboy-ism.

Thank you Tyler! Please listen to this man Blizzard, he knows what he's talking about.
"You must enemy don't know, and very good micro" - Bosstoss #Wet4Ret
DorF
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Sweden961 Posts
September 16 2012 21:33 GMT
#49
While we get the Bw carrier back in starcraft 2, let's get all the old Bw micro back, especially the Bw mutas :3
(or at least similair)
BW for life !
neobowman
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3324 Posts
September 16 2012 21:33 GMT
#50
This thing needs to be spotlighted.
N.geNuity
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States5112 Posts
September 16 2012 21:37 GMT
#51
rofl I never knew you could box the interceptors after stop and the details of the deployment time. carriers OP.
iu, seungah, yura, taeyeon, hyosung, lizzy, suji, sojin, jia, ji eun, eunji, soya, younha, jiyeon, fiestar, sinb, jung myung hoon godtier. BW FOREVERR
ShiroKaisen
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States1082 Posts
September 16 2012 21:38 GMT
#52
This ABSOLUTELY needs to be spotlighted. Mods?
Dame da na, zenzen dame da ze!
imPermanenCe
Profile Joined July 2011
Netherlands595 Posts
September 16 2012 21:43 GMT
#53
Wow, really nice! I didn't know about keeping the interceptors out so you can launch them immediately on the next target

Really no reason to not put this in :\
Micro at its best is like an elegant dance between two people trying to achieve a similar end.
laguu
Profile Joined October 2009
Finland278 Posts
September 16 2012 21:48 GMT
#54
I would suggest you add some progamer vods or fpvods that demonstrate some good and bad carrier micro.
Arguing with a fool proves there are two.
Burns
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2300 Posts
September 16 2012 21:48 GMT
#55
Thank you Tyler that was an amazing blog post

These are the changes in star2 that made the game go stale for me. The new units all are so a clicky, the worst for me is the swarm host, its large and slow, has no synergy with the zerg army until late late game where everything is slow, and then there is no micro, it just spits out a ranged unit
What do you mean you heard me during the night, these are quiet pants!
Raithed
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
China7078 Posts
September 16 2012 21:48 GMT
#56
Great video, I agree... carriers take forever to come out too, needs this.
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
September 16 2012 21:49 GMT
#57
such a subtle change for such a massive difference... a thousand times yes, bw carriers were the shit.
Administrator
Tamburlaine
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada288 Posts
September 16 2012 21:53 GMT
#58
Thanks for the video, NonY.

We got the carrier back. Now we just need to get the carrier better.
I like things.
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
September 16 2012 22:04 GMT
#59
Man, that video is the perfect example of why BW is such a superior game in general. Such insane depth and so much stuff to learn.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
Sephy90
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States1785 Posts
September 16 2012 22:04 GMT
#60
I knew you could have the actual carrier outside it's attack range while the interceptors kept attacking but I didn't know about the stop/move command that kept all the interceptors out and instant deployment when you ordered the carriers to attack... although before I did see interceptors that were out alongside carriers when you stop/moved them but didn't think anything of it..

It goes to show how complex and great the carrier is in BW and would hope to see this in SC2!
"So I turned the lights off at night and practiced by myself"
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