• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 07:27
CEST 13:27
KST 20:27
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)10Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy5Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru3
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 9-15): herO doubles on GSL week2Firefly suspended by EWC, replaced by Lancer12Classic & herO RO8 Interviews: "I think it’s time to teach [Rogue] a lesson."2Rogue & GuMiho RO8 interviews: "Lifting that trophy would be a testament to all I’ve had to overcome over the years and how far I’ve come on this journey.8Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2)14
StarCraft 2
General
The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy Weekly Cups (June 9-15): herO doubles on GSL week The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL Nexon wins bid to develop StarCraft IP content, distribute Overwatch mobile game
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 SOOP Starcraft Global #22
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] Darkgrid Layout
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 478 Instant Karma Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target
Brood War
General
ASL20 Preliminary Maps BW General Discussion FlaSh Witnesses SCV Pull Off the Impossible vs Shu BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Recent recommended BW games
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL20] GosuLeague RO16 - Tue & Wed 20:00+CET [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - WB Finals & LBR3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Beyond All Reason What do you want from future RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Echoes of Revolution and Separation
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
A Better Routine For Progame…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 4880 users

Carrier Micro

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 31 32 33 Next All
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8748 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-16 22:15:14
September 16 2012 20:21 GMT
#1
This video shows and explains carrier micro in BW and contrasts it with a lack of micro in SC2. I argue for implementing the BW carrier mechanics in HOTS beta.



On September 17 2012 06:15 thedeadhaji wrote:
There's a bunch of differences between BW and SC2 Carrier micro details that you listed out, and I'm wondering in what order would you personally like to have "returned" to its former state?

Here are the ones I can recall:

1. Target switching in leash zone
2. Able to self select / target interceptors
3. Continuous deployment of interceptors while moving

Also, the movement pattern of the interceptors seem quite different between BW and SC2, which would affect the "death rate" and "dps rate" of interceptors I imagine.

Target switching in leash zone is the most important.

Being able to target individual interceptors is probably the lowest. That's really just meant to make carriers more difficult to use but it is kind of luck based and not the smoothest way to balance them. Enemies don't really want to do that either. A-move will always be the best method of killing interceptors (aside from possibly with abilities).

Continuous deployment of interceptors while moving I think is really really cool but is the easiest thing to classify as a buggy behavior. I hope we can get it though because it takes so much attention and skill to use effectively. It is very strong but becomes incredibly difficult to do as soon as your opponent forces action in two places at once. So the players are countering each other by doing increasingly difficult strategies and that is AWESOME. The protoss player got the carriers knowing they'll be sufficiently effective ONLY IF he can pull off this micro. The enemy's response is not to bang his head against this really strong micro but rather to split the protoss's attention, punishing him for having tunnel vision on his carriers. Someone is gonna make a mistake and miscalculate and that's how the game should be decided.

If the continuous deployment of interceptors ISN'T in the game, then interceptor healing is pretty much just a straight buff. There isn't really any tension if both things aren't in the game.

All these mechanics sort of tie in to each other. A lot of times the continuous deployment of interceptors isn't used for long stretches, but rather for very short stretches, like in a single battle when the carriers want to pull really far back for a moment and then go right back in. If they don't have continuous deployment of interceptors, they get significantly punished for leaving battles even for a split second. So in such a case, it's basically the same as target switching but with a very short retreat between targets.

Related note: If there isn't continuous deployment, then you are significantly punishing the carrier user for leaving leash range. And when that wasn't a mistake, but rather a "tactical retreat", then the carrier starts to feel like a shitty unit again. If the carrier was too strong, I wouldn't want to see it balanced that way because it's just making it a frustrating unit.
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
Risljaninasim
Profile Joined July 2011
Netherlands228 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-16 20:25:56
September 16 2012 20:24 GMT
#2
Thank you for this Tyler. Yay for Tyler.
;;
levikus
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany19 Posts
September 16 2012 20:25 GMT
#3
nice insight, thank you!
nehl
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany270 Posts
September 16 2012 20:28 GMT
#4
if the carrier could be microed it would possibly be pretty good since it has suck a high dps.
actually i wonder in the first play why blizard has not yet implemented that?
AxiR
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany944 Posts
September 16 2012 20:28 GMT
#5
I think Blizzard is hesitating to implement the "old" carrier because it would overlap a little bit with role of the tempest.
Warpath
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada1242 Posts
September 16 2012 20:30 GMT
#6
I actually didn't know exactly what carrier micro was beyond staying in leash range and TvP is the only thing i play in BW.. this explains so much...
Alryk
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States2718 Posts
September 16 2012 20:31 GMT
#7
Definitely worth watching thank you! Good idea imo...
Team Liquid, IM, ViOlet!
Lazzi
Profile Joined June 2011
Switzerland1923 Posts
September 16 2012 20:33 GMT
#8
Someone link that to Dustin Browder.
It's good to be back
Ero-Sennin
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States756 Posts
September 16 2012 20:38 GMT
#9
Well, now they can't say, "No one has sufficiently explained why we should change the carrier."
Luck makes talent look like genius.
StorrZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States13919 Posts
September 16 2012 20:38 GMT
#10
Thank you Tyler <3
Back behind this 100%
Hwaseung Oz fan for life. Swing out, always swing out.
Stratos
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Czech Republic6104 Posts
September 16 2012 20:38 GMT
#11
Awesome post, although I don't really follow SC2 at all I appreciate your effort to fight for these changes which might make the game more attractive. I don't see it coming given the directions the development has been taking so far but it's great that there's someone like you out there fighting
En Taro Violet
fenrysk
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States364 Posts
September 16 2012 20:38 GMT
#12
i wish i had something useful to contribute, but all i can do is compliment how cool of a job you've done through this video in show the difference between the powerful micro-bility of BW carriers vs current WoL carriers.

It definitely would be more fun for spectators to see more stargate play in protoss matchups, and i'm sure more protoss players would have more fun playing air-toss styles
http://fenrysk-art.deviantart.com
StorrZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States13919 Posts
September 16 2012 20:39 GMT
#13
On September 17 2012 05:28 AxiR wrote:
I think Blizzard is hesitating to implement the "old" carrier because it would overlap a little bit with role of the tempest.


Tempest wasn't around in wol though so thats a poor excuess. Tempest might not be needed if the carrier gets its old feel back, and im ok with that.
Hwaseung Oz fan for life. Swing out, always swing out.
Aerisky
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States12129 Posts
September 16 2012 20:40 GMT
#14
Thank you so much for this

Amazing, thanks for making this, and yes a hundred times over. Implementing BW Carrier mechanics in HoTS beta would spice of the game like you wouldn't believe. I will never forget those crazy-ass carrier micro moments.
Jim while Johnny had had had had had had had; had had had had the better effect on the teacher.
Render
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States249 Posts
September 16 2012 20:40 GMT
#15
Agreeeeeeeeeeee. Thank you for showing these in perfect juxtaposition.
Rose my color is and white, pretty mouth and green my eyes.
neobowman
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3324 Posts
September 16 2012 20:41 GMT
#16
YES! I've always wanted to talk about it but I couldn't figure out how to put it in words.
osmanic
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany200 Posts
September 16 2012 20:42 GMT
#17
hey man thats a really nice video, you should do a thread on the battle.net beta discussion
twitch.tv/manicx90 <- my master toss stream
Omri
Profile Joined September 2011
Israel638 Posts
September 16 2012 20:43 GMT
#18
Thank you for taking the time to make this video Tyler, I agree and hope Blizzard takes notice (:
miScythe
Profile Joined November 2011
Norway16 Posts
September 16 2012 20:46 GMT
#19
Wow. Wow, wow, wow. This is so cool. Would LOVE to see this kind of micro in Starcraft II. I'm all for experimenting with this in the beta. Blizzard should really watch this video, Carriers will be so much fun to see in pro-games..!

Thanks for this awesome insight, Tyler.
Liquid'NonY for president!
Chairman Ray
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States11903 Posts
September 16 2012 20:46 GMT
#20
Quite insightful, I didn't even know about that carrier micro
1 2 3 4 5 31 32 33 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
RSL Revival
10:00
Season 1: Group D
Reynor vs ClassicLIVE!
Scarlett vs ShoWTimE
Tasteless991
ComeBackTV 785
IndyStarCraft 190
Rex118
IntoTheiNu 39
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Tasteless 918
IndyStarCraft 190
Harstem 160
Rex 112
Creator 28
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 17856
Sea 17504
Calm 7231
Rain 5953
Bisu 1897
Horang2 1420
Hyuk 691
Pusan 618
actioN 377
910 276
[ Show more ]
Shuttle 195
Mini 161
EffOrt 158
Leta 140
PianO 89
Stork 88
Soulkey 65
ZerO 58
ToSsGirL 54
sas.Sziky 41
Aegong 37
Barracks 22
Icarus 22
NaDa 20
[sc1f]eonzerg 18
Movie 18
soO 17
IntoTheRainbow 13
Sacsri 12
TY 11
SilentControl 11
Free 11
ivOry 10
Dota 2
XaKoH 505
XcaliburYe449
PGG 170
febbydoto23
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1065
shoxiejesuss849
Other Games
singsing2977
B2W.Neo479
DeMusliM396
C9.Mang0383
Lowko125
RotterdaM104
Mew2King93
ArmadaUGS61
SortOf49
Trikslyr26
ZerO(Twitch)6
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 21
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH267
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt576
Upcoming Events
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3h 33m
OSC
7h 33m
Replay Cast
14h 33m
SOOP
21h 33m
Cure vs Zoun
SC Evo League
1d
Road to EWC
1d 2h
SOOP Global
1d 3h
FuturE vs MaNa
Harstem vs Cham
BSL: ProLeague
1d 6h
Sziky vs JDConan
Cross vs MadiNho
Hawk vs Bonyth
Circuito Brasileiro de…
1d 8h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 22h
[ Show More ]
Road to EWC
2 days
BSL: ProLeague
2 days
UltrA vs TBD
Dewalt vs TBD
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #3 - GSC
2025 GSL S2
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

NPSL Lushan
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.