This would go a long way to make, what is currently basically an A-move unit, into a unit that's actually interesting. I really wish Blizzard would consider implementing this.

Dasian

United States41 Posts

September 16 2012 22:14 GMT

#62

Thank you Nony! This is absolutely fantastic!

bgx

Poland6595 Posts

September 16 2012 22:15 GMT

#63

If Blizzard would really change carrier mechanics based on this intel then i would be shocked, because that would mean blizzard haven't done thier elementary homework.

Bobgrimly

New Zealand250 Posts

September 16 2012 22:20 GMT

#64

If there was ever a vid that blizzard needed to watch this is it! This sums up how to fix the carrier and add depth and excitement and a skill level between protoss that would make spectating so much more exciting.
Please blizzard watch the vid and fix the carrier.

HawaiianPig

Canada5155 Posts

September 16 2012 22:20 GMT

#65

Nuances like these made Brood War what it is... I feel these kinds of skills are almost entirely missing from SC2...

Too me this isn't just about carrier micro, but about an approach to unit design.

Subtleties like this are both exciting and skillful. They don't affect lower level players, yet add complexity to the higher level. Complexity is a good thing. I don't know if Blizzard knows that... I'd be surprised if Blizzard even understands the importance of this kind of thing let alone implements it...

One can hope though...

IshinShishi

Japan6156 Posts

September 16 2012 22:21 GMT

#66

Very good job Nony, makes me want to go back and play BW, the units have just so much more depth, this should be spotlighted and hopefully some of these features get implemented, but I doubt it will happen.

mnck

Denmark1518 Posts

September 16 2012 22:32 GMT

#67

Protoss definately needs a stronger alternative to the current army. Protoss air seems so weak. Carriers being viable in the later stages could definately give some alternatives to the way Protoss is being played. And buffing units by changing the way they can be microed is an exicting thing! It's sort of discovering a whole new use for an existing unit you thought was useless. Makes the game a lot more fun if existing units are changed a little in such a way that makes them stronger if used correctly. Gives a unit more depth. I just hope this change would make carriers viable again!

puppykiller

United States3137 Posts

September 16 2012 22:33 GMT

#68

It's funny because it actually goes much deeper than this. Nony didn't even get to mentioning how goliath vs carrier works. If carriers are left in the open goliaths (which are a bit faster than carriers) can simply walk under them and kill them very quickly. For this reason carriers tend to be deployed in areas in which the terran can't maneuver there goliaths very well. Usually this means over mineral lines or from behind cliffs that are near key points of the map. In these locations the carriers can easily retreat if goliaths get to close and since often times few goliaths will be able to shoot at a time, the carriers will have significantly more dps. In order for the goliaths to combat this, they will often back off from the ridge a bit and shoot down the carriers interceptors rather than put themselves in an area in which they are at the carriers mercy near by the maps obstructions. This forces the carriers to move forward, which in turn leaves them vulnerable to the goliaths running under them and dispatching of them rapidly. However if the goliaths move too far back the carriers will just ignore them and continue kill whatever buildings/expansion they were attacking in the first place. This creates a really high level of skill micro dynamic between the players that is very interesting for an observer to watch.

Here's and example:
2007 Korean OSL Flash vs Stork

EDIT: lol looks like while I was writing this post someone already posted the vod above.

SarcasmMonster

3136 Posts

September 16 2012 22:34 GMT

#69

Someone needs to post this in the pros-only BNET forums... if you know what I mean

United States2586 Posts

September 16 2012 22:36 GMT

#70

I hope this video reaches the attention of Blizzard. I'm sick of hearing interview after interview about the carrier where they'll remark about how they "read as much" of the feedback as they can, yet when the Carrier is brought up the only argument they hear is that it's iconic. Which roof do we need to shout at them from?

Mataza

Germany5364 Posts

September 16 2012 22:42 GMT

#71

Absolutely awesome video.
I thought carriers could be improved with bw micro, but I didn´t even know half of it. The instant deploy with full 14 range just blew my mind.

We need to make Blizzard see this. We need to. This is not some random "buff carrier" plea. Tyler knows his shit.
I can´t access Battlenet US forums though and Dustin Browder and David Kim opened threads in these, so they would notice them easier in the US forums.

The SC2 devs didn´t work on SC:BW. They (probably) don´t know what made carriers great. Give them a nudge, show them Tylers video.

neobowman

Canada3324 Posts

September 16 2012 22:45 GMT

#72

On September 17 2012 07:42 Mataza wrote:
Absolutely awesome video.
I thought carriers could be improved with bw micro, but I didn´t even know half of it. The instant deploy with full 14 range just blew my mind.

We need to make Blizzard see this. We need to. This is not some random "buff carrier" plea. Tyler knows his shit.
I can´t access Battlenet US forums though and Dustin Browder and David Kim opened threads in these, so they would notice them easier in the US forums.

The SC2 devs didn´t work on SC:BW. They (probably) don´t know what made carriers great. Give them a nudge, show them Tylers video.

To be fair, the SC1 developers probably didn't know what they were doing when they made the carriers' ai (or pretty much everything that makes BW great) like that. It just ended up being awesome.

itsjuspeter

United States668 Posts

September 16 2012 22:53 GMT

#73

This was an amazing video, thank you, I really hope blizzard takes note and implements some of these changes if not ALL of these changes to bring the carrier back into competitive play.

bgx

Poland6595 Posts

September 16 2012 22:54 GMT

#74

Next video:
Arbiterssss
:>

Zoraque

Canada120 Posts

September 16 2012 22:56 GMT

#75

really deep, i can see why carriers work in sc1 and not sc2

thanks for taking the time to make a video for us to undersatnd!

hifriend

China7935 Posts

September 16 2012 22:58 GMT

#76

On September 17 2012 07:15 bgx wrote:
If Blizzard would really change carrier mechanics based on this intel then i would be shocked, because that would mean blizzard haven't done thier elementary homework.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQeZ0Q1IRcw

Except flash officially solved carriers the year after.

GolemMadness

Canada11044 Posts

September 16 2012 22:58 GMT

#77

Completely agreed. Besides, how can Flash destroy everyone who goes carriers against him if they're not feasible in the game?

ChewbroCColi

Denmark108 Posts

September 16 2012 23:00 GMT

#78

I have no idea why Blizzard ever changed the carrier for sc2. Now its just a 1a unit. Give us the bw carrier man!

Crueger

Sweden73 Posts

September 16 2012 23:02 GMT

#79

Agree with everything, would love to see this in sc2, let's hope blizzard gets a peak at this insightful post somehow.

itsjuspeter

United States668 Posts

September 16 2012 23:04 GMT

#80

I know it isn't much but I created a thread on the bnet forums as well to hopefully catch blizzard's eye to what tyler made. Support is appreciated,

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6607331039

Let us all work together to make sc2 a better game.