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On July 14 2012 18:39 Iplaythings wrote:
After reading this I'm not sure I even want to get into the beta, god this reasoning is so very sad
Why do they balance it out for casuals when it's a niche game where most players copy the pros regardless
Oh why o why blizzard, this "stale" tvt is the thing I think is the single most well designed matchup in sc2
I dont see why zerg should be able to be THAT in your face and how that works if hydra speed is hivetech...
Mothership core was cool untill I heard this reasoning, as many others have said in this thread: there exists ALOT of builds to pressure people on the pro level and on the noob level (if not even more?)
blizzard, dont make your stocks drop lower when youre about to get sold dammnit LISTEN to the community, most of the posters ideas in this thread seems better and more reasonable to me.
They are removign the carrier after it has found a purpose as a lategame PvZ unit while complaining about stargate being underutillized...
I dont even.. what the heck?
Honestly it's almost like Dustin Browder is losing the real core of Starcraft. When I read that part on his view of TVT my jaw nearly dropped. Like I've typed in other post TVT tank lines are almost the symbol of what starcraft is all about regardless what some people might find it boring. By tinkering with is just silly.
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Blizzard has shown time and time again that they think tanks are bad for the game.
In their opinion tank lines are actually boring.
This point of theirs is further confirmed by the 3 supply cost in wol, and the increased number of hard counters present.
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On July 14 2012 18:49 Danzo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 18:39 Iplaythings wrote:
After reading this I'm not sure I even want to get into the beta, god this reasoning is so very sad
Why do they balance it out for casuals when it's a niche game where most players copy the pros regardless
Oh why o why blizzard, this "stale" tvt is the thing I think is the single most well designed matchup in sc2
I dont see why zerg should be able to be THAT in your face and how that works if hydra speed is hivetech...
Mothership core was cool untill I heard this reasoning, as many others have said in this thread: there exists ALOT of builds to pressure people on the pro level and on the noob level (if not even more?)
blizzard, dont make your stocks drop lower when youre about to get sold dammnit LISTEN to the community, most of the posters ideas in this thread seems better and more reasonable to me.
They are removign the carrier after it has found a purpose as a lategame PvZ unit while complaining about stargate being underutillized...
I dont even.. what the heck? Honestly it's almost like Dustin Browder is losing the real core of Starcraft. When I read that part on his view of TVT my jaw nearly dropped. Like I've typed in other post TVT tank lines are almost the symbol of what starcraft is all about regardless what some people might find it boring. By tinkering with is just silly.
I don' think that long, drawn-out tank battles are the real core of Starcraft. There were some big, long tank fights in BW and even some in SC2, when I think of Starcraft, I don't think of long-winded tank battles.
In any case, one has to accept that a new game which is based on the franchise (and not just a remake of it) cannot provide anything the old game does. Different aspects are getting more importance, others less.
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Lategame PvP is probably Dustin Browder's idea of how Starcraft should look. So many lasers doing terrible, terrible damage!
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On July 14 2012 18:59 [F_]aths wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 18:49 Danzo wrote:On July 14 2012 18:39 Iplaythings wrote:
After reading this I'm not sure I even want to get into the beta, god this reasoning is so very sad
Why do they balance it out for casuals when it's a niche game where most players copy the pros regardless
Oh why o why blizzard, this "stale" tvt is the thing I think is the single most well designed matchup in sc2
I dont see why zerg should be able to be THAT in your face and how that works if hydra speed is hivetech...
Mothership core was cool untill I heard this reasoning, as many others have said in this thread: there exists ALOT of builds to pressure people on the pro level and on the noob level (if not even more?)
blizzard, dont make your stocks drop lower when youre about to get sold dammnit LISTEN to the community, most of the posters ideas in this thread seems better and more reasonable to me.
They are removign the carrier after it has found a purpose as a lategame PvZ unit while complaining about stargate being underutillized...
I dont even.. what the heck? Honestly it's almost like Dustin Browder is losing the real core of Starcraft. When I read that part on his view of TVT my jaw nearly dropped. Like I've typed in other post TVT tank lines are almost the symbol of what starcraft is all about regardless what some people might find it boring. By tinkering with is just silly. I don' think that long, drawn-out tank battles are the real core of Starcraft. There were some big, long tank fights in BW and even some in SC2, when I think of Starcraft, I don't think of long-winded tank battles. In any case, one has to accept that a new game which is based on the franchise (and not just a remake of it) cannot provide anything the old game does. Different aspects are getting more importance, others less.
But not even in sc2 there's "long winded tank lines" anymore. There are strong tank positioning still but it seems like we're moving away from that in HOTS.
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On July 14 2012 19:06 Danzo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 18:59 [F_]aths wrote:On July 14 2012 18:49 Danzo wrote:On July 14 2012 18:39 Iplaythings wrote:
After reading this I'm not sure I even want to get into the beta, god this reasoning is so very sad
Why do they balance it out for casuals when it's a niche game where most players copy the pros regardless
Oh why o why blizzard, this "stale" tvt is the thing I think is the single most well designed matchup in sc2
I dont see why zerg should be able to be THAT in your face and how that works if hydra speed is hivetech...
Mothership core was cool untill I heard this reasoning, as many others have said in this thread: there exists ALOT of builds to pressure people on the pro level and on the noob level (if not even more?)
blizzard, dont make your stocks drop lower when youre about to get sold dammnit LISTEN to the community, most of the posters ideas in this thread seems better and more reasonable to me.
They are removign the carrier after it has found a purpose as a lategame PvZ unit while complaining about stargate being underutillized...
I dont even.. what the heck? Honestly it's almost like Dustin Browder is losing the real core of Starcraft. When I read that part on his view of TVT my jaw nearly dropped. Like I've typed in other post TVT tank lines are almost the symbol of what starcraft is all about regardless what some people might find it boring. By tinkering with is just silly. I don' think that long, drawn-out tank battles are the real core of Starcraft. There were some big, long tank fights in BW and even some in SC2, when I think of Starcraft, I don't think of long-winded tank battles. In any case, one has to accept that a new game which is based on the franchise (and not just a remake of it) cannot provide anything the old game does. Different aspects are getting more importance, others less. But not even in sc2 there's "long winded tank lines" anymore. There are strong tank positioning still but it seems like we're moving away from that in HOTS.
I think one can tolerate the de facto removal of long tank battles if we get more exciting things to see. I guess that not many viewers like to witness how both opponents set up their tank lines and how the game develops in the next minutes with virtually no fight since no-one wants to attack the other one.
I remember an SC2 game (some month old) which I found interesting how both terrans tried to get the upper hand while both sat on their tank lines in siege mode and tried to gain vision with vikings. But I am glad that one doesn't see that too often.
Of course the game should feel like Starcraft, but that is a moving target. HotS will probably set a new tone for Starcraft matches, fleshing out the style introduced with WoL.
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On July 14 2012 15:33 Digamma wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 12:55 Griffith` wrote:
thanks for the interview ^_^ just saved me $50 ! My thoughts exactly. Sadly i spent 90 bucks on d3 already. Boring and unworthy sucessor to d2, plus the fact that the system makes no sense at all. Spent 12 years waiting for WoW diablo edition.
so true. i wont buy a blizzard game ever again -.-
the interview already hints that mr destructible rocks has no idea what he is talking about
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omg TvT is the only STRATEGICAL matchup besides ZvT, everything else is just blob vs blob.
If they'd just redesign Protoss, which is just too deathbally, a-clicky and boring, we'd have a really great game.
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On July 14 2012 18:07 thezanursic wrote:
- HotS will likely release 1 month after the beta ends.
That would be stupid.
It's a trend blizzard has been following, I believe starting with Diablo 3. I'm sure what he meant was that if there isn't anything gamebreaking during the beta period, which could last months, releasing it a month after isn't a bad idea. Let's see what happens.
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On July 14 2012 19:59 KuKri wrote:
omg TvT is the only STRATEGICAL matchup besides ZvT, everything else is just blob vs blob.
If they'd just redesign Protoss, which is just too deathbally, a-clicky and boring, we'd have a really great game.
This is absolute rubbish, pvp is very close to being as strategical as TVT and there's quite a lot of stuff that can be done within pvz and pvt, please don't talk about this game when you don't even play it at a high level (i.e. masters)
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On July 14 2012 20:06 Lineridarz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 19:59 KuKri wrote:
omg TvT is the only STRATEGICAL matchup besides ZvT, everything else is just blob vs blob.
If they'd just redesign Protoss, which is just too deathbally, a-clicky and boring, we'd have a really great game. This is absolute rubbish, pvp is very close to being as strategical as TVT and there's quite a lot of stuff that can be done within pvz and pvt, please don't talk about this game when you don't even play it at a high level (i.e. masters)
I play as random in diamond, so what? Do you think they should design the game just for the top 2% of players? And for sure PvP is mostly build order wins and if it comes to the late game it's one big battle where one of the players loses all of his colossus and dies. Doesn't feel like an RTS game, rather like something Michael Bay would consider being RTS. Saying 'this is rubbish' doesn't make it better and is, by the way, about the worst argument to bring into a discussion.
Anyway, my point was why they have to change an enjoyable feature of the game.
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Understand that they most likely try to balance the game to fit for all the leagues. Unless it is severely broken, use your creative minds to make new strategies instead of making excuses to why things won't work when it hasn't even been out yet. Looking at most pros who tend to stay on the top, they make jokes about balance issues, but if they didn't have that creativity in the first place, they wouldn't be there. Don't wish it would be easier, wish you were better.
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The widow mine seems like the only kight point of HOTS for Terran. I hope it stays and is made USEFUL.
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On July 14 2012 20:20 KuKri wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 20:06 Lineridarz wrote:On July 14 2012 19:59 KuKri wrote:
omg TvT is the only STRATEGICAL matchup besides ZvT, everything else is just blob vs blob.
If they'd just redesign Protoss, which is just too deathbally, a-clicky and boring, we'd have a really great game. This is absolute rubbish, pvp is very close to being as strategical as TVT and there's quite a lot of stuff that can be done within pvz and pvt, please don't talk about this game when you don't even play it at a high level (i.e. masters) I play as random in diamond, so what? Do you think they should design the game just for the top 2% of players? And for sure PvP is mostly build order wins and if it comes to the late game it's one big battle where one of the players loses all of his colossus and dies. Doesn't feel like an RTS game, rather like something Michael Bay would consider being RTS. Saying 'this is rubbish' doesn't make it better and is, by the way, about the worst argument to bring into a discussion. Anyway, my point was why they have to change an enjoyable feature of the game.
Late game pvp match up is the worst match up of the game. Deathball a+click vs Deathball a+click... I smile every time when i watch tod in pvp.
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On July 14 2012 20:53 Imzoo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 20:20 KuKri wrote:On July 14 2012 20:06 Lineridarz wrote:On July 14 2012 19:59 KuKri wrote:
omg TvT is the only STRATEGICAL matchup besides ZvT, everything else is just blob vs blob.
If they'd just redesign Protoss, which is just too deathbally, a-clicky and boring, we'd have a really great game. This is absolute rubbish, pvp is very close to being as strategical as TVT and there's quite a lot of stuff that can be done within pvz and pvt, please don't talk about this game when you don't even play it at a high level (i.e. masters) I play as random in diamond, so what? Do you think they should design the game just for the top 2% of players? And for sure PvP is mostly build order wins and if it comes to the late game it's one big battle where one of the players loses all of his colossus and dies. Doesn't feel like an RTS game, rather like something Michael Bay would consider being RTS. Saying 'this is rubbish' doesn't make it better and is, by the way, about the worst argument to bring into a discussion. Anyway, my point was why they have to change an enjoyable feature of the game. Late game pvp match up is the worst match up of the game. Deathball a+click vs Deathball a+click... I smile every time when i watch tod in pvp.
I can win 100 pvp-late game with you. Not because im stronger than you, but because from what i see, u dont know nothing about pvp.
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On July 14 2012 21:09 InVerno wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 20:53 Imzoo wrote:On July 14 2012 20:20 KuKri wrote:On July 14 2012 20:06 Lineridarz wrote:On July 14 2012 19:59 KuKri wrote:
omg TvT is the only STRATEGICAL matchup besides ZvT, everything else is just blob vs blob.
If they'd just redesign Protoss, which is just too deathbally, a-clicky and boring, we'd have a really great game. This is absolute rubbish, pvp is very close to being as strategical as TVT and there's quite a lot of stuff that can be done within pvz and pvt, please don't talk about this game when you don't even play it at a high level (i.e. masters) I play as random in diamond, so what? Do you think they should design the game just for the top 2% of players? And for sure PvP is mostly build order wins and if it comes to the late game it's one big battle where one of the players loses all of his colossus and dies. Doesn't feel like an RTS game, rather like something Michael Bay would consider being RTS. Saying 'this is rubbish' doesn't make it better and is, by the way, about the worst argument to bring into a discussion. Anyway, my point was why they have to change an enjoyable feature of the game. Late game pvp match up is the worst match up of the game. Deathball a+click vs Deathball a+click... I smile every time when i watch tod in pvp. I can win 100 pvp-late game with you. Not because im stronger than you, but because from what i see, u dont know nothing about pvp.
You gonna spread out your collosi into 4 groups, so amazing i almost shat my pants.
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On July 10 2012 12:04 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +- Protoss has to very passive in the early game as they only have zealot, sentry's and stalkers at that point. ?????????????????????????????
lol indeed!!!
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I don't get why they are so adamant on making mech OR bio work vs protoss. Too many strat possibilities is what screwed TvP for a long time beforehand... Make too many sentries? oops they went mech etc. Also it will be really hard to make both somewhat equal in strength. Because the immortal already exists they have to make this super ugly warhound design (bonus vs mechanical, ie "we want this only for TvT and TvP") just to give mech a chance. At the same time there is a huge risk that TvT will just become boring warhound wars, which seems one of the most boring units there is, from what i can tell you can't even aim the vs mechanical attack...
It would have been much easier and more elegant to make mech viable in TvT and TvZ and for example make air viable in TvP along with bio. TvP would be somewhat reverse of the TvP in BW where terran instead of protoss would go for either tier 1 units and abuse mobility and/or go for an ultimate lategame air army, in this case consisting of BC's and maybe some new unit.
Instead stupid dustin browder is focussing entire HOTS terran improvement to make mech work in TvP, ie bio and air play get no new units at all and mech must be given 3 new units. This basically means bio and air play get nerfed because the other races DO get new units to use against this.. the new mech also looks boring as hell being centered around two abilityless and slow units: battlehellion and warhound.. Imo they need to completely revamp what they are trying to do with terran in HOTS. Throw away the stupid goal of making mech a must in TvP (iconic reasons don't count for the carrier why let them count for mech TvP??) and just let mech work in the other matchups and give all lines of play a new (support) unit. If they are so intent on fixing mech at least make it interesting, for example one problem with mech now is that the medivac is balanced to fit with bio styles. As a result it sucks for mech play as you got a slow, vulnerable dropship that can't heal. Give the medivac a repair ability or make one of the new mech units biological for example just so mech can use some cool dropplay too.
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Dont you think that widow mine will be too easy to counter? Imagine situation there are 5mines and all you need to do to counter them is to send 5zerlings(125minerals), thats too easy isnt it? They should make it as an upgrade for helions xD
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The thing with the TvT stalemate is something encountered in low leagues. From bronze to plat nobody really wants/knows how to break lines. Everyone is scared to loose all there units. This often ends in an 40:00-100:00 minute TvT with mass viking bc. Thats why back in gold league some months ago i started playing Iechioic style, i was sooo bored of TvT. I mean yeah watching the good guys playing it is beautiful and inspirational, but siting there with your 10 tanks and waiting for his 10 tanks to do something...
Still its bad reasoning since I don´t care at all whats good for my play or the play of other low leaguers... WE WANT ESPORTS.
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EPT
