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On June 12 2020 06:20 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2020 06:14 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:
Klopp had to learn to make do with what he's given in his previous clubs, so he respects his backup players, which is why they are willing to fight for him. However I think he is smart enough to realize that this formula doesn't work for a club that wants to compete for several big trophies for years to come. Liverpool need a stronger bench to keep their place at the top, which we saw this season.
One injury to a key player and liverpool is severly weakened. Comparing Minamino to Werner makes no sense, Minamino was an absolute steal and a profitable deal even if he fails to compete at premier league level just because of the asian market. I don't think the 20 million buyout clause for Werner you claim existed was ever confirmed anywhere either. What did we see this season? That liverpool doesnt need a strong bench to run away with the title? Also werner was on his last year of contract in the summer so 20mil sounds reasonable
Liverpool luckily had no serious injuries to any of their key players and even then they had to play their under 23s in cup competitions. Do you really consider this a promising longterm strategy? What if VVD, Trent or Robertson miss 3 months due to injury? What if Mané decides he'd rather play for Madrid?
As for Werner, it's possible that there was no clause at all in his previous contract, so he'd either have to pull a Dembélé and try to force Leipzig to sell him or he had to make sure to get a reasonable clause in his extension.
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On June 12 2020 06:14 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:
Klopp had to learn to make do with what he's given in his previous clubs, so he respects his backup players, which is why they are willing to fight for him. However I think he is smart enough to realize that this formula doesn't work for a club that wants to compete for several big trophies for years to come. Liverpool need a stronger bench to keep their place at the top, which we saw this season.
One injury to a key player and liverpool is severly weakened. Comparing Minamino to Werner makes no sense, Minamino was an absolute steal and a profitable deal even if he fails to compete at premier league level just because of the asian market. I don't think the 20 million buyout clause for Werner you claim existed was ever confirmed anywhere either. Klopp is a humanitarian and a socialist in a humanitarian and socialist club. You can't project the identity of other clubs or managers on LFC or Klopp. They don't just buy because they can. They don't just toss away. It is not City, Chelsea or Utd, but LFC. Klopp invests in his players, and they in him. He prefers to work with them, as long as it is doable.
The formula seems to work pretty well. Not only did they make 2 CL finals, winning one, but they also gained 50 points on a City, that spend thrice as much in two years and have £50 mil players on the bench.
The bench is pretty strong. One of the strongest in the league or any league.
The important difference between Minamino and Werner, is Minamino is an LFC player and Werner is not. That you think Werner is better is completely and utterly irrelevant. They bought Minamino. They don't buy players just to buy another, before he has proven not to work out. Had they chosen Werner instead, they would have also given him a chance, before they tossed him away. Because that is what responsible and well managed clubs does.
I can't help that you don't believe that Werner had a low buyout clause until late August 2019. He signed a new one with a bigger clause, that Chelsea has just fulfilled.
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Also all that "Minamino was only bought for Asian market" is disgusting and insulting. I'd hope for less racially insulting statements during times of blacklivesmatter
Did BVB and Klopp only buy Kagawa all these years ago to get the Japanese market? No, they bought him for sporting reasons just like Klopp did now with Minamino.
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On June 12 2020 06:48 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2020 06:20 sharkie wrote:On June 12 2020 06:14 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:
Klopp had to learn to make do with what he's given in his previous clubs, so he respects his backup players, which is why they are willing to fight for him. However I think he is smart enough to realize that this formula doesn't work for a club that wants to compete for several big trophies for years to come. Liverpool need a stronger bench to keep their place at the top, which we saw this season.
One injury to a key player and liverpool is severly weakened. Comparing Minamino to Werner makes no sense, Minamino was an absolute steal and a profitable deal even if he fails to compete at premier league level just because of the asian market. I don't think the 20 million buyout clause for Werner you claim existed was ever confirmed anywhere either. What did we see this season? That liverpool doesnt need a strong bench to run away with the title? Also werner was on his last year of contract in the summer so 20mil sounds reasonable Liverpool luckily had no serious injuries to any of their key players and even then they had to play their under 23s in cup competitions. Do you really consider this a promising longterm strategy? What if VVD, Trent or Robertson miss 3 months due to injury? What if Mané decides he'd rather play for Madrid? As for Werner, it's possible that there was no clause at all in his previous contract, so he'd either have to pull a Dembélé and try to force Leipzig to sell him or he had to make sure to get a reasonable clause in his extension. LFC played without Firmino and Salah against Barcelona, and had two injuries(Keïta and at half time Robertson), and Barcelona got completely humiliated.
They played with their u23s because they had to be in Dubai the following day. They like many others use a mixed squad in tournaments that are low priority(FA and Carling cup). This is good experience for the youngsters. They also beat an Everton at full strength. They may choose to play at full strength when it comes to a semi or final. But if they don't make it, it is not really relevant, because they have much bigger fish to fry.
LFC has Lovren, Gomez, and Matip that are all top defenders. And Fabinho can play CB as well as Right back. LFC has James Milner that can play left back, and also Nico Williams, that has done well.
If Mané suddenly decides he'd rather for whatever reason wants to play for Real, then the club has the bargaining chip with new contracts signed not long ago. If they sell him, they will have other options to look at. That is unsurprisingly how things work.
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On June 12 2020 06:58 sharkie wrote:
Also all that "Minamino was only bought for Asian market" is disgusting and insulting. I'd hope for less racially insulting statements during times of blacklivesmatter
Did BVB and Klopp only buy Kagawa all these years ago to get the Japanese market? No, they bought him for sporting reasons just like Klopp did now with Minamino. Minamino was one of the best players against LFC over both games. Brilliant player with a high footballing IQ. An absolute steal, like Shaqiri before him.
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On June 12 2020 06:58 sharkie wrote:
Also all that "Minamino was only bought for Asian market" is disgusting and insulting. I'd hope for less racially insulting statements during times of blacklivesmatter
Did BVB and Klopp only buy Kagawa all these years ago to get the Japanese market? No, they bought him for sporting reasons just like Klopp did now with Minamino.
You trying to put words into my mouth is disgusting. I clearly said that buying Minamino was a no brainer because even if he never makes another starting eleven ever, the popularity Liverpool gained in Asia already paid for him. As a player, he was a prospect, way too cheap for his level of skill, but still a prospect.
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On June 12 2020 06:56 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2020 06:14 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:
Klopp had to learn to make do with what he's given in his previous clubs, so he respects his backup players, which is why they are willing to fight for him. However I think he is smart enough to realize that this formula doesn't work for a club that wants to compete for several big trophies for years to come. Liverpool need a stronger bench to keep their place at the top, which we saw this season.
One injury to a key player and liverpool is severly weakened. Comparing Minamino to Werner makes no sense, Minamino was an absolute steal and a profitable deal even if he fails to compete at premier league level just because of the asian market. I don't think the 20 million buyout clause for Werner you claim existed was ever confirmed anywhere either. I can't help that you don't believe that Werner had a low buyout clause until late August 2019. He signed a new one with a bigger clause, that Chelsea has just fulfilled.
Do you have a source for that? as for the other points, I guess we have to agree to disagree. Citing single games as proof of squad depths makes no sense to me. Origi had some miracle games but he's still way below any of the front three, Shaquiri will probably leave in the summer. I still believe Liverpool need someone as good as Salah/Firmino/Mané up front.
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On June 12 2020 09:03 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2020 06:56 Dracolich70 wrote:On June 12 2020 06:14 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:
Klopp had to learn to make do with what he's given in his previous clubs, so he respects his backup players, which is why they are willing to fight for him. However I think he is smart enough to realize that this formula doesn't work for a club that wants to compete for several big trophies for years to come. Liverpool need a stronger bench to keep their place at the top, which we saw this season.
One injury to a key player and liverpool is severly weakened. Comparing Minamino to Werner makes no sense, Minamino was an absolute steal and a profitable deal even if he fails to compete at premier league level just because of the asian market. I don't think the 20 million buyout clause for Werner you claim existed was ever confirmed anywhere either. I can't help that you don't believe that Werner had a low buyout clause until late August 2019. He signed a new one with a bigger clause, that Chelsea has just fulfilled. Do you have a source for that? as for the other points, I guess we have to agree to disagree. Citing single games as proof of squad depths makes no sense to me. Origi had some miracle games but he's still way below any of the front three, Shaquiri will probably leave in the summer. I still believe Liverpool need someone as good as Salah/Firmino/Mané up front. It's the same kind of sources that has linked him with LFC for the past two years. He signed a new contract on the 26th of August 2019(aka after PLs transfer window closed). Go back further and see. Whether it is true or not, needless to say he was cheaper, hence the new contract. But no one cared, least of all LFC, because they weren't looking, despite the reports.
I am not sure what substance you have to disagree with, because right now, it looks like LFC's squad depth is not troubling, being 25 points ahead of a team that outspent them threefold. All the while they have had an average injury list of 6. Far beyond the likes of say... City. I don't think you can find a squad with the depth of LFC anywhere. It's a bit funny you cite concrete proof at the highest level as invalid, because of arguing single example, but you roll with an argument that LFCs depth is not good enough without any proof or any example.
Minamino, Origi and Shaqiri are plenty good. Sad really they have been cut short of matches, because they almost always delivers. But what can you do, when the front three are almost never injured for very long, if at all. It seems wasteful to me to have as good players rotting on the bench at £200k per week. If Shaqiri leaves this summer, LFC will likely look for a new backup or keep a returning Harry Wilson.
But again, it is quite irrelevant what you think, because the club and Klopp disagrees with you. And you know, they are defending CL and world champions and soon to be PL champions with a record breaking gap without your suggestion.
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On June 11 2020 23:24 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2020 06:20 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:On June 11 2020 02:53 sharkie wrote:
Oh come on.. "want" is so easy to say. You know who else klopp wants? Messi because everyone wants messi in his team.
Klopp surely would have wanted to have werner but since he knew about his price tag he never thought hed get him. So no, all these reports about liverpool getting werner were just bollocks You're using hearsay as an argument to discredit other hearsay statements, that does make sense for sure! Maybe before Corona Liverpool considered Werner, they just realized that Corona cost them too much to comfortably afford him. When you have several independent sources reporting the same story for weeks, it is very unlikely to be complete bollocks. Please don't present your opinions as fact with nothing of substance to back them up. If they considered Werner before the pandemic, they would have made inquiries in January at worst, and bought him at the low buy-out clause in the summer at best. They didn't. They bought Minamino. These reports come in the midst of a pandemic, and are also - including from you, debunked by said pandemic. News copy stories from each other. How you take them as likely speculation, which 99% are, is using your head. At best these stories are made up by an agent that wants a club to make a move, which is very likely in this case and Chelsea snatched it. You are not really backing your own up with substance, but rather argue, when reports exists from several sources, it must be real and feel the counter should have substance. Well, there is substance against. I have no idea why you think the reports makes any sense. Also he is not using hearsay, he is using facts. Klopp has said he (and everyone) wants Messi on his/their team, because he regards him as the best player in the world. It doesn't mean anything, and he probably wouldn't even pick him even on free transfer, because he is a luxury player.
There was no way for Liverpool to sign Werner before this season, no matter how much they wanted to: Werner had already agreed a contract with another club, who didn't buy him in the end (Bayern).
You are also forgetting just how much Werner improved, look at his stats for this season.
The story was in the media for quite some time, didn't happen, I don't get what the fuss is about. Because Klopp wanted to buy a player you don't like?
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On June 12 2020 19:59 clusen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2020 23:24 Dracolich70 wrote:On June 11 2020 06:20 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:On June 11 2020 02:53 sharkie wrote:
Oh come on.. "want" is so easy to say. You know who else klopp wants? Messi because everyone wants messi in his team.
Klopp surely would have wanted to have werner but since he knew about his price tag he never thought hed get him. So no, all these reports about liverpool getting werner were just bollocks You're using hearsay as an argument to discredit other hearsay statements, that does make sense for sure! Maybe before Corona Liverpool considered Werner, they just realized that Corona cost them too much to comfortably afford him. When you have several independent sources reporting the same story for weeks, it is very unlikely to be complete bollocks. Please don't present your opinions as fact with nothing of substance to back them up. If they considered Werner before the pandemic, they would have made inquiries in January at worst, and bought him at the low buy-out clause in the summer at best. They didn't. They bought Minamino. These reports come in the midst of a pandemic, and are also - including from you, debunked by said pandemic. News copy stories from each other. How you take them as likely speculation, which 99% are, is using your head. At best these stories are made up by an agent that wants a club to make a move, which is very likely in this case and Chelsea snatched it. You are not really backing your own up with substance, but rather argue, when reports exists from several sources, it must be real and feel the counter should have substance. Well, there is substance against. I have no idea why you think the reports makes any sense. Also he is not using hearsay, he is using facts. Klopp has said he (and everyone) wants Messi on his/their team, because he regards him as the best player in the world. It doesn't mean anything, and he probably wouldn't even pick him even on free transfer, because he is a luxury player. There was no way for Liverpool to sign Werner before this season, no matter how much they wanted to: Werner had already agreed a contract with another club, who didn't buy him in the end (Bayern). You are also forgetting just how much Werner improved, look at his stats for this season. The story was in the media for quite some time, didn't happen, I don't get what the fuss is about. Because Klopp wanted to buy a player you don't like?
the story was in the media because liverpool is the best team in the world at the moment and they want stories to write about them - who cares if they are true or not.
dracolich and me are just one of the few people who care that media is spouting lies
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On June 12 2020 20:27 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2020 19:59 clusen wrote:On June 11 2020 23:24 Dracolich70 wrote:On June 11 2020 06:20 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:On June 11 2020 02:53 sharkie wrote:
Oh come on.. "want" is so easy to say. You know who else klopp wants? Messi because everyone wants messi in his team.
Klopp surely would have wanted to have werner but since he knew about his price tag he never thought hed get him. So no, all these reports about liverpool getting werner were just bollocks You're using hearsay as an argument to discredit other hearsay statements, that does make sense for sure! Maybe before Corona Liverpool considered Werner, they just realized that Corona cost them too much to comfortably afford him. When you have several independent sources reporting the same story for weeks, it is very unlikely to be complete bollocks. Please don't present your opinions as fact with nothing of substance to back them up. If they considered Werner before the pandemic, they would have made inquiries in January at worst, and bought him at the low buy-out clause in the summer at best. They didn't. They bought Minamino. These reports come in the midst of a pandemic, and are also - including from you, debunked by said pandemic. News copy stories from each other. How you take them as likely speculation, which 99% are, is using your head. At best these stories are made up by an agent that wants a club to make a move, which is very likely in this case and Chelsea snatched it. You are not really backing your own up with substance, but rather argue, when reports exists from several sources, it must be real and feel the counter should have substance. Well, there is substance against. I have no idea why you think the reports makes any sense. Also he is not using hearsay, he is using facts. Klopp has said he (and everyone) wants Messi on his/their team, because he regards him as the best player in the world. It doesn't mean anything, and he probably wouldn't even pick him even on free transfer, because he is a luxury player. There was no way for Liverpool to sign Werner before this season, no matter how much they wanted to: Werner had already agreed a contract with another club, who didn't buy him in the end (Bayern). You are also forgetting just how much Werner improved, look at his stats for this season. The story was in the media for quite some time, didn't happen, I don't get what the fuss is about. Because Klopp wanted to buy a player you don't like? the story was in the media because liverpool is the best team in the world at the moment and they want stories to write about them - who cares if they are true or not. dracolich and me are just one of the few people who care that media is spouting lies
Seems more to me like Dracolich and you are just really horny for Klopp lol. You are trying to die on hill that is completely meaningless. Who gives a shit if Klopp wanted him and didnt get him or that he didnt want him and this is a lie.
This is standard fare for transfer news since the beginning of time. It was a footnote comment till ya'll started fussing lol.
Also your above comment is contradictory. Unless the who cares bit was a question and not sarcasm and you were answering your own question.
Sorta like..
"Who cares ?
WE DO !"
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
On June 12 2020 06:56 Dracolich70 wrote:
[Klopp is a humanitarian and a socialist in a humanitarian and socialist club. You can't project the identity of other clubs or managers on LFC or Klopp.
This also got me.
This same club spent 35 Mill for a pack mule, justifying it with a 50 mill Torres sale. Also Fenway is the scummiest of scummy sports owner groups. Although I guess most of them are pretty scummy. And they control the purses.
Klopps great though. Dude is love.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On June 12 2020 06:20 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2020 06:14 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:
Klopp had to learn to make do with what he's given in his previous clubs, so he respects his backup players, which is why they are willing to fight for him. However I think he is smart enough to realize that this formula doesn't work for a club that wants to compete for several big trophies for years to come. Liverpool need a stronger bench to keep their place at the top, which we saw this season.
One injury to a key player and liverpool is severly weakened. Comparing Minamino to Werner makes no sense, Minamino was an absolute steal and a profitable deal even if he fails to compete at premier league level just because of the asian market. I don't think the 20 million buyout clause for Werner you claim existed was ever confirmed anywhere either. What did we see this season? That liverpool doesnt need a strong bench to run away with the title? Also werner was on his last year of contract in the summer so 20mil sounds reasonable
How is good management to just have 11 good players and hope none of them get injured? You have idiots in football like Shawcross who decimated Aaron Ramsey with a tackle that kept him out for 12 months. Same with stupid Son doing it to Andre Gomes keeping him out for 12 months, that can happen to anyone on a football field and having just 11 players at elite level will backfire. Name a successful team for a "period" of time that wasn't based around just 11 players? Klopp's Dortmund squad was based around 16 players i think maybe a few more.
Yeah the Fenway thing is also a thing i feel, in my opinion you can make arguments they invest way more heavily into Red Sox than they will ever with Liverpool. Just looking at transfer business alone would make that point but i can't really say that is a thing with fact but looks that way to me. Still its working at the moment...
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On June 13 2020 02:40 Pandemona wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2020 06:20 sharkie wrote:On June 12 2020 06:14 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:
Klopp had to learn to make do with what he's given in his previous clubs, so he respects his backup players, which is why they are willing to fight for him. However I think he is smart enough to realize that this formula doesn't work for a club that wants to compete for several big trophies for years to come. Liverpool need a stronger bench to keep their place at the top, which we saw this season.
One injury to a key player and liverpool is severly weakened. Comparing Minamino to Werner makes no sense, Minamino was an absolute steal and a profitable deal even if he fails to compete at premier league level just because of the asian market. I don't think the 20 million buyout clause for Werner you claim existed was ever confirmed anywhere either. What did we see this season? That liverpool doesnt need a strong bench to run away with the title? Also werner was on his last year of contract in the summer so 20mil sounds reasonable How is good management to just have 11 good players and hope none of them get injured? You have idiots in football like Shawcross who decimated Aaron Ramsey with a tackle that kept him out for 12 months. Same with stupid Son doing it to Andre Gomes keeping him out for 12 months, that can happen to anyone on a football field and having just 11 players at elite level will backfire. Name a successful team for a "period" of time that wasn't based around just 11 players? Klopp's Dortmund squad was based around 16 players i think maybe a few more.
If you think Klopp's team is only 11 players you didnt watch a single PL team. He rotated more than any other top6 team
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On June 13 2020 02:42 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2020 02:40 Pandemona wrote:On June 12 2020 06:20 sharkie wrote:On June 12 2020 06:14 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:
Klopp had to learn to make do with what he's given in his previous clubs, so he respects his backup players, which is why they are willing to fight for him. However I think he is smart enough to realize that this formula doesn't work for a club that wants to compete for several big trophies for years to come. Liverpool need a stronger bench to keep their place at the top, which we saw this season.
One injury to a key player and liverpool is severly weakened. Comparing Minamino to Werner makes no sense, Minamino was an absolute steal and a profitable deal even if he fails to compete at premier league level just because of the asian market. I don't think the 20 million buyout clause for Werner you claim existed was ever confirmed anywhere either. What did we see this season? That liverpool doesnt need a strong bench to run away with the title? Also werner was on his last year of contract in the summer so 20mil sounds reasonable How is good management to just have 11 good players and hope none of them get injured? You have idiots in football like Shawcross who decimated Aaron Ramsey with a tackle that kept him out for 12 months. Same with stupid Son doing it to Andre Gomes keeping him out for 12 months, that can happen to anyone on a football field and having just 11 players at elite level will backfire. Name a successful team for a "period" of time that wasn't based around just 11 players? Klopp's Dortmund squad was based around 16 players i think maybe a few more. If you think Klopp's team is only 11 players you didnt watch a single PL team. He rotated more than any other top6 team
No, he did not. A quick google and looking at stats show;
liverpool - 14 players 20 apps or more (13 are over 30 apps!)
chelsea - 17 players 20 apps or more (8 are over 30 apps)
man city - 17 players 20 apps or more (12 are over 30 apps)
So just those teams you can see how liverpool are using the same 13-14 players whereas other clubs are using 17. 4 more players.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
You can't use how many players they have used, i used over 20 as a decent benchmark or you can do over 15 if you want and still same outcome. Liverpool have 2 games this season they played PURE KIDS because they were not in the country so using just 1 appearance is silly... If you do it based on just league games its even funnier;
Chelsea 19 players 10 or more appearances in prem
Man city 18 players 10 more appearances in prem
Liverpool 16 players 10 more appearances in prem
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Sure I can. This is the whole point of rotation. Using more players. This also means that liverpool has actually faced more injury problems than other teams. And 1 game kids was out of necessity - the other was purely for the sake of the first team players. Again something other teams didnt do because Klopp actually looks at his players.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Or yeah, get this. Gives no shit about the competition, so he bins it off? lol
Anyway believe what you want, but everyone knows Liverpool is a starting 11 only. Adrian came in remember that? He was so good for one game against Chelsea then he was shit and they were so thankful Allison came back yeah i remember that too...
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Adrian was so bad he was only part of the first part of the record breaking winning streak of liverpool yeah pande. Oh wait.
You only watch liverpool during the big games but have no clue who they play vs the smaller teams
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EPT
