EPTI fail to see any logic in the argument against football players earning so much, except for jealousy or the notion of fairness vs other professionals. The problem with this last argument is that it rates entertainment as something "not useful" for humankind.
2013 - 2014 Football Thread - Page 108
| Forum Index > Sports |
Time to move on to the next thread http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sports/460943-2014-2015-football-thread | ||
|
warding
Portugal2394 Posts
I fail to see any logic in the argument against football players earning so much, except for jealousy or the notion of fairness vs other professionals. The problem with this last argument is that it rates entertainment as something "not useful" for humankind. | ||
|
wingpawn
Poland1342 Posts
On August 06 2013 01:51 warding wrote: Players deserve every penny they earn. Any idea of instituting salary ceilings or something of the sort would only benefit the owners of football clubs, and why should they deserve that? I fail to see any logic in the argument against football players earning so much, except for jealousy or the notion of fairness vs other professionals. The problem with this last argument is that it rates entertainment as something "not useful" for humankind. I don't know whether you are replying to my post or not, but in general, though I don't regard entertainment "not useful", I'd still call it secondary to economical, industrial, scientific or educational accomplishements of other professions that make lesser money. Also, to quote Dr House, 'people get what they get, not what they deserve'. I'm not a communist to advocate the state where everyone's salaries are determined by some 'fairness', because ultimately every fairness in this world is arbitrary. But does not change the fact that some earnings are completely ridiculous. | ||
|
pretender58
Germany713 Posts
On August 06 2013 01:51 warding wrote: Players deserve every penny they earn. Any idea of instituting salary ceilings or something of the sort would only benefit the owners of football clubs, and why should they deserve that? I fail to see any logic in the argument against football players earning so much, except for jealousy or the notion of fairness vs other professionals. The problem with this last argument is that it rates entertainment as something "not useful" for humankind. Football players do in fact deserve quite a lot of money. They have to push teir bodies to the limit very often and they are part in some kind of show business and entertainment. But contracts like these of CR and Messi are just ridiculous. Everything that exceeds ~10m a year is insane. Entertainment is of course "useful" for humanity, but then doctors and scientists should earn even more money, because what they do is far more helpful than entertainment. | ||
|
RvB
Netherlands6240 Posts
On August 06 2013 02:10 wingpawn wrote: I don't know whether you are replying to my post or not, but in general, though I don't regard entertainment "not useful", I'd still call it secondary to economical, industrial, scientific or educational accomplishements of other professions that make lesser money. Also, to quote Dr House, 'people get what they get, not what they deserve'. I'm not a communist to advocate the state where everyone's salaries are determined by some 'fairness', because ultimately every fairness in this world is arbitrary. But does not change the fact that some earnings are completely ridiculous. I still don't agree with your point, entertaining millions of people and giving them 1.5 hours of escape in their busy or sometimes miserable lifes is worth a lot too. So while I agree economical scientific etc. Aclomplishments are worth a lot nobody would want to live a life without entertainment right? | ||
|
Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
Also massive lol @ Messi doubters. | ||
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Liverpool let Skrtel go out on loan today. And that leaves them with Agger Toure and kids as CBs. Can't see them selling Agger, and if they do it will be for stupid money | ||
|
Bluejava
Sweden135 Posts
 | ||
|
Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
Srsly? Why aren't they getting someone good, lmao. | ||
|
wingpawn
Poland1342 Posts
On August 06 2013 02:16 RvB wrote: I still don't agree with your point, entertaining millions of people and giving them 1.5 hours of escape in their busy or sometimes miserable lifes is worth a lot too. So while I agree economical scientific etc. Aclomplishments are worth a lot nobody would want to live a life without entertainment right? In terms of thinking only within the boundaries of Western Culture, I agree with you. In terms of global thinking, there are two or three billions of people for whom entertainment means throwing stones into ponds or playing with the dirt - and most of them still don't suffer terribly or die from that. On the other hand, people in our culture have hardly any reason to be miserable at all and even if they still are, they could easily find thousand more ways of entertaining themselves other than watching Ronaldo and Messi (of course only if they had to, because I'm not doubting in their unique skills of making fans happy for a while). Don't get me wrong, I love football but at the same time, I acknowledge it's complete historical irrelevance, simply steming from the fact that for humans, the entertainment is not exactly as important as clean water, food, suitable shelter etc. Although it's true that Serbian and Croatian football fanatics, once armed and trained as a militia, played an infamous role during the war in former Yugoslavia: http://observer.theguardian.com/osm/story/0,,1123137,00.html BTW, Polish net sources say Barcelona would prefer David Luiz, but is giving only 35 millions while Chelsea would want ten millions more. They also say Agger would cost about 20 millions, but considering that Suarez wasn't available for 45 millions, I'd say twenty is too modest of a value. | ||
|
RvB
Netherlands6240 Posts
On August 06 2013 02:46 wingpawn wrote: In terms of thinking only within the boundaries of Western Culture, I agree with you. In terms of global thinking, there are two or three billions of people for whom entertainment means throwing stones into ponds or playing with the dirt - and most of them still don't suffer terribly or die from that. On the other hand, people in our culture have hardly any reason to be miserable at all and even if they still are, they could easily find thousand more ways of entertaining themselves other than watching Ronaldo and Messi (of course only if they had to, because I'm doubting in their unique skills of making fans happy for a while). Don't get me wrong, I love football but at the same time, I acknowledge it's complete historical irrelevance, simply steming from the fact that for humans, the entertainment is not exactly as important as clean water, food, suitable shelter etc. Although it's true that Serbian and Croatian football fanatics, once armed and trained as a militia, played an infamous role during the war in former Yugoslavia: http://observer.theguardian.com/osm/story/0,,1123137,00.html BTW, Polish net sources say Barcelona would prefer David Luiz, but is giving only 35 millions while Chelsea would want ten millions more. They also say Agger would cost about 20 millions, but considering that Suarez wasn't available for 45 millions, I'd say twenty is too modest of a value. Well obviously basic utilities and getting out of poverty are more important than football but you're too easily skipping all the poor kids in for example Brazil and Argentina for who football is their only escape. I guess what I am trying to say is that entertainment while not as important as other things is underrated in importance in a lot of people's life's. Edit: and entertainment certainly has historical importance though not football specifically. Just think of the green and blue hfactions in the byzantine empire and the games to keep the population happy in Rome. | ||
|
Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
On August 06 2013 02:16 pretender58 wrote: Football players do in fact deserve quite a lot of money. They have to push teir bodies to the limit very often and they are part in some kind of show business and entertainment. But contracts like these of CR and Messi are just ridiculous. Everything that exceeds ~10m a year is insane. Entertainment is of course "useful" for humanity, but then doctors and scientists should earn even more money, because what they do is far more helpful than entertainment. I don't think you can really compare doctors/scientists and athletes. They are providing different products and don't generate the same capital. Ronaldo, Messi, and a handful of other people are responsible for a multi-billion euro, international industry. The amount of capital produced by them is astronomical, and I think it's fair that they get as much of that capital back as they currently do. | ||
|
pretender58
Germany713 Posts
On August 06 2013 03:00 Ferrose wrote: I don't think you can really compare doctors/scientists and athletes. They are providing different products and don't generate the same capital. Ronaldo, Messi, and a handful of other people are responsible for a multi-billion euro, international industry. The amount of capital produced by them is astronomical, and I think it's fair that they get as much of that capital back as they currently do. Ok, that´s a valid point with the generation of capital. However, they already benefit from the capital and the industry. Most top-level players have private sponsoring (Götze showed up wearing a Nike-shirt at his adidas-sponsored presentation :D) and contracts with companies they advertise for ( e. g. Messi for Turkish Airlines). And I´m sure this contracts are really lucrative. Despite that, clubs have to pay huge salaries to hold their players. | ||
|
RvB
Netherlands6240 Posts
http://swissramble.blogspot.nl/2012/04/truth-about-debt-at-barcelona-and-real.html | ||
|
wingpawn
Poland1342 Posts
On August 06 2013 02:55 RvB wrote: Well obviously basic utilities and getting out of poverty are more important than football but you're too easily skipping all the poor kids in for example Brazil and Argentina for who football is their only escape. I guess what I am trying to say is that entertainment while not as important as other things is underrated in importance in a lot of people's life's. Edit: and entertainment certainly has historical importance though not football specifically. Just think of the green and blue hfactions in the byzantine empire and the games to keep the population happy in Rome. Hm, as for the kids in South America, you have a point. Though let's not forget than behind 1 kid who turns pro and breaks out of poverty, there are probably about 100 whose improvement is too slow, get randomly shot during riots in slums, someone injuries them hard enough before any money contract is signed or they are simply forced to start making money in some other basic profession because their families are lousy. Besides, professional sports is a very selective way of distributing wealth and the selection is heavily based on genetic abilities to run fast, jump high, grow tall etc. In terms of social and historical argument you brought up, I guess the sports is a convenient way of 'crap control' because masses can release their frustration by yelling at stadiums rather than killing the politics - who would probably assemble for sports events anyway, as it's a convenient way of having informal social meetings (with pretty formal background in mind). Wikipedia: Emperor Justinian I was a supporter of the Blues. Chelsea fans, rejoice! On August 06 2013 03:00 Ferrose wrote: I don't think you can really compare doctors/scientists and athletes. They are providing different products and don't generate the same capital. Ronaldo, Messi, and a handful of other people are responsible for a multi-billion euro, international industry. The amount of capital produced by them is astronomical, and I think it's fair that they get as much of that capital back as they currently do. Top footballers excell = the multi-billion euro business runs amok for 20-30 years max until they get older and retire. Scientists excell = the invention exists forever, probably snowballing through helping to make other inventions, also providing benefits that cannot be measured with money (longer human life, saved lifes, less time wasted, cleaner environment etc.) | ||
|
pretender58
Germany713 Posts
On August 06 2013 03:30 RvB wrote: We've already argued about Real Madrid's debt multiple times, just read this article it sums everything up pretty well. http://swissramble.blogspot.nl/2012/04/truth-about-debt-at-barcelona-and-real.html Thanks, didn´t know that | ||
|
sc4k
United Kingdom5454 Posts
On August 06 2013 02:19 Pandemona wrote: I doubt you Barca will get Agger. Liverpool let Skrtel go out on loan today. And that leaves them with Agger Toure and kids as CBs. Can't see them selling Agger, and if they do it will be for stupid money WHat!!!! Why did they let Skrtel out on loan!!! Has Rogers been bribed by some opponents of pool? Has he been paid to lose? As to the earnings: please actually think about what it takes to be a doctor or a scientist. Not that much. Not nearly as much as becoming an international footballer. With a bit of brains, a work ethic and rich parents you can easily become a doctor. EASILY. I know a lot of people who aren't that impressive who are doctors. Scientists...a SHIT ton of them are deadwood average people. It's full of hacks just like any other profession. People massively undervalue entertainment. Entertainment gives life meaning. Science and medicine provides life and extended life, but entertainment makes life *better*. Way too much reverence is given to the former and not enough respect to the latter. Anyone can be a fireman, a policeman or a nurse. It's just a job. Not *anyone* can decide to play in the premier league and be a big name. And remember the pay drops off very sharply when you get down from the very top of the game. On August 06 2013 02:22 Steveling wrote: Wat Agger? Srsly? Why aren't they getting someone good, lmao. Agger IS good! | ||
|
RvB
Netherlands6240 Posts
http://swissramble.blogspot.nl/2011/06/real-madrid-and-financial-fair-play.html Another good article on it. | ||
|
pretender58
Germany713 Posts
On August 06 2013 04:00 RvB wrote: http://swissramble.blogspot.nl/2011/06/real-madrid-and-financial-fair-play.html Another good article on it. Thanks again The website itself is fantastic. I´ll definitely keep an eye on that. | ||
|
sc4k
United Kingdom5454 Posts
On August 06 2013 04:00 RvB wrote: http://swissramble.blogspot.nl/2011/06/real-madrid-and-financial-fair-play.html Another good article on it. God damn Madrid making 50 million a year PROFIT, that is staggering. | ||
|
sc4k
United Kingdom5454 Posts
 ...I'm FC Twente btw:+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1148985_10153104982225131_460412243_n.jpg) | ||
| ||
