EPT2012 - 2013 Football Thread! - Page 371
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51490 Posts
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anomalopidae
Slovenia549 Posts
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nitram
Canada5412 Posts
On April 27 2013 00:56 sharkie wrote: Where do you keep reading this "having to sell players to pay off debt" stuff? That was in the past. Dortmund for the last two years don't have to do that. Sahin went because he was able to (in his contract), Kagawa went because he wasn't going to stay and they already signed Reus, Goetze goes because he was able to (in his contract). If Dortmund wants to they can force Lewandowski to stay another year. They wont have money problems if he leaves next year. Dortmund dont have to sell anyone to pay off debt. Man you dont seem to know anything about BVB. He is delusional, just ignore him. I have been trying to tell him this for some time but its hopeless. Maybe if we're lucky he will get banned. He adds absolutely nothing to this thread but misinformation and a complete amateurs opinion. | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On April 27 2013 01:24 Pandemona wrote: Hmmm so selling players to avoid debts does not count as selling players to control debts? They are gaining revenue, controlling their debts (by selling players to cut the debts PREVIOUSLY) and still not pushing the wage cap any higher as they want to steadily increase the stature of Dortmund again. Is how i see it. They had debts, their controlling it, their view is to build the club up bit by bit, not going overboard after a bit of success (winning bundesliga) and focus on homegrown talent (which is good). IMO Dortmund looks (from the outside i agree) to be being built in the same sort of mold as Arsenal? Give us the evidence that shows that BVB is choosing to sell players because they need to pay debts. Show us where debts -> selling players. That is the point that you keep trying to make and that is the point that everyone is telling you you're wrong about. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18424 Posts
On April 27 2013 01:24 Pandemona wrote: Hmmm so selling players to avoid debts does not count as selling players to control debts? They are gaining revenue, controlling their debts (by selling players to cut the debts PREVIOUSLY) and still not pushing the wage cap any higher as they want to steadily increase the stature of Dortmund again. Is how i see it. They had debts, their controlling it, their view is to build the club up bit by bit, not going overboard after a bit of success (winning bundesliga) and focus on homegrown talent (which is good). IMO Dortmund looks (from the outside i agree) to be being built in the same sort of mold as Arsenal? Is it really so difficult for you to say "ok guys, sorry I was wrong/misinformed"? | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51490 Posts
I was using this as the information http://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2013/4/24/4260184/borussia-dortmund-real-madrid-champions-league-bvb-rising-from-ashes which is telling me they are selling their best players for the 3rd season in a row...that cant be because they "want to" they have to have their arm twisted in doing so? I put 2 and 2 together to make they are selling players because the debt is still eating away at them...why else would they sell their best players for a 3rd summer in a row? I will admit im wrong, if i am given the facts (not word of mouth) that im wrong....If this summer Gotze is the only one to leave then it looks like Dortmund don't need to sell their best players anymore...but if Lewandowski and someone else go out the door with him then you have to see this as more than just they dont want to play for Dortmund? If you look back in this thread i have always admitted to being wrong if i am given the right information, i am not a troll like some of you are!  i do accept when i am wrong, but at the moment i see nothing to back up anyones statement apart from "you dont know what your talking about" claims...and peoples word. The cold hard facts they have sold their best players for 2 seasons in a row, and looks like it is going to be a 3rd... | ||
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Yuljan
2196 Posts
On April 27 2013 01:55 Pandemona wrote: I already said I was using this as the information http://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2013/4/24/4260184/borussia-dortmund-real-madrid-champions-league-bvb-rising-from-ashes which is telling me they are selling their best players for the 3rd season in a row...that cant be because they "want to" they have to have their arm twisted in doing so? I put 2 and 2 together to make they are selling players because the debt is still eating away at them...why else would they sell their best players for a 3rd summer in a row? I will admit im wrong, if i am given the facts (not word of mouth) that im wrong....If this summer Gotze is the only one to leave then it looks like Dortmund don't need to sell their best players anymore...but if Lewandowski and someone else go out the door with him then you have to see this as more than just they dont want to play for Dortmund? If you look back in this thread i have always admitted to being wrong if i am given the right information, i am not a troll like some of you are! i do accept when i am wrong, but at the moment i see nothing to back up anyones statement apart from "you dont know what your talking about" claims...and peoples word. The cold hard facts they have sold their best players for 2 seasons in a row, and looks like it is going to be a 3rd...I dont care much either way but here is a complete report of the financial situation. Unfortunately I couldnt find it in english, but maybe you can understand the graphs. http://spielverlagerung.de/2013/03/28/borussia-dortmund-die-wiedergeburt-des-gelben-rivalen/ | ||
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city42
1656 Posts
On April 27 2013 01:55 Pandemona wrote: I already said I was using this as the information http://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2013/4/24/4260184/borussia-dortmund-real-madrid-champions-league-bvb-rising-from-ashes which is telling me they are selling their best players for the 3rd season in a row...that cant be because they "want to" they have to have their arm twisted in doing so? I put 2 and 2 together to make they are selling players because the debt is still eating away at them...why else would they sell their best players for a 3rd summer in a row? I will admit im wrong, if i am given the facts (not word of mouth) that im wrong....If this summer Gotze is the only one to leave then it looks like Dortmund don't need to sell their best players anymore...but if Lewandowski and someone else go out the door with him then you have to see this as more than just they dont want to play for Dortmund? If you look back in this thread i have always admitted to being wrong if i am given the right information, i am not a troll like some of you are! i do accept when i am wrong, but at the moment i see nothing to back up anyones statement apart from "you dont know what your talking about" claims...and peoples word. The cold hard facts they have sold their best players for 2 seasons in a row, and looks like it is going to be a 3rd...Again, that is a fan-written article. If I were to create a blog right now and make a post saying that Dortmund's revenue is €500m and that Ronaldo will be joining them this summer, would you take that as fact also? It's true that they are selling one of their best players for the third season in a row, but none of the sales are due to debt problems. Götze has a release clause in his contract, so they have to let him go. Kagawa wasn't needed anymore (the Reus deal from Mönchengladbach was already done 6 months before the summer window) and they were able to sell high on him. Sahin didn't want to stay and they let him go for a very inexpensive price. Would a club sell their best player to Madrid for just €10m if they were desperate for every penny? I'm not sure what's so hard to understand here. Dortmund had substantial debt issues. They no longer do. Their financial activity is not dictated by their level of debt. Obviously they don't have the spending power of Bayern or PSG, but they have money and will have no issue finding quality replacements for Götze and potentially Lewandowski. edit: When I say Kagawa "wasn't needed," that doesn't mean they were forcing him out the door. Obviously they would ideally keep him and add Reus for squad depth. But he made it clear that he wanted to leave for Man Utd and would not sign a new contract, so there was no point in keeping an unhappy player. Since Reus is clearly a better player anyway, Kagawa was not some earth-shattering loss for Dortmund. | ||
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anomalopidae
Slovenia549 Posts
On April 27 2013 01:55 Pandemona wrote: I already said I was using this as the information http://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2013/4/24/4260184/borussia-dortmund-real-madrid-champions-league-bvb-rising-from-ashes which is telling me they are selling their best players for the 3rd season in a row...that cant be because they "want to" they have to have their arm twisted in doing so? I put 2 and 2 together to make they are selling players because the debt is still eating away at them...why else would they sell their best players for a 3rd summer in a row? I will admit im wrong, if i am given the facts (not word of mouth) that im wrong....If this summer Gotze is the only one to leave then it looks like Dortmund don't need to sell their best players anymore...but if Lewandowski and someone else go out the door with him then you have to see this as more than just they dont want to play for Dortmund? If you look back in this thread i have always admitted to being wrong if i am given the right information, i am not a troll like some of you are! i do accept when i am wrong, but at the moment i see nothing to back up anyones statement apart from "you dont know what your talking about" claims...and peoples word. The cold hard facts they have sold their best players for 2 seasons in a row, and looks like it is going to be a 3rd...so you take the word of mouth from some news site? while people tell you thatthese players that are listed to have been sold had release clauses? You do understand how those function yes? Nuhi Sahin had his supposedly at 12 mil ( http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/raphael_honigstein/05/05/sahin.dortmund/index.html ), Kagawa rejected further contract with Dortmund cause he wanted to join Manchester ( http://www.player-profiles.co.uk/shinji-kagawa.php ), and Götze is quite fresh http://www.givemefootball.com/341551-bayern-munich-trigger-37-million-mario-gotze-release-clause | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
The more disconcerting thing for Dortmund to consider is that great players of the calibre that they have been getting the past few years may not be consistently as good with so much churn. Something may well flop so an established star is always the preference. | ||
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smr
Germany4808 Posts
But that does not mean that the debts do not play any role for the club any more. If wages would increase from 80million to 120+million and transfer expenses would sum up to 75+million to replace Götze and strengthen the roster it doesn't need much more than a bad Bundesliga season and a group exit in next years CL to lose alot of what was gained over the last 5 years. And I'm not sure if I would take the bet that I can replace the third core player in 3 years without losing quality. | ||
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nitram
Canada5412 Posts
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4903625/Robert-Lewandowski-would-cost-Man-Utd-80m.html 80 million perogies? Damn hahaha This would totally get dortmund out of uncontrollable debt. | ||
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Ysellian
Netherlands9029 Posts
Seriously tho Lewy is a great player, but is he marketable enough to warrant such a salary? Poland has gotten a lot richer, but still. | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51490 Posts
I will also wait to see what happens in the summer. I also again reiterate i always take people views on board! I always do >.< So don't be to disrespectful in your replies please I didn't put this much effort into getting a football community to talk about football across Europe (and even America/South America) on TL to just get brushed aside for an opinion which i backed up with something i thought is more than just a fan blog...but of course it might be and i respect that but i don't think it is. But i will keep this opinion to myself of course if know else agree's | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51490 Posts
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Iorveth
Cayman Islands62 Posts
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nitram
Canada5412 Posts
troll? | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51490 Posts
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On April 27 2013 01:55 Pandemona wrote: I already said I was using this as the information http://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2013/4/24/4260184/borussia-dortmund-real-madrid-champions-league-bvb-rising-from-ashes which is telling me they are selling their best players for the 3rd season in a row...that cant be because they "want to" they have to have their arm twisted in doing so? I put 2 and 2 together to make they are selling players because the debt is still eating away at them...why else would they sell their best players for a 3rd summer in a row? Because all of their best players' contracts have been coming up and they have wanted to leave for the most prestigious clubs that give out the biggest paychecks. This has been said several times already. | ||
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