On April 26 2013 06:15 Pandemona wrote: But they are still in debt....they still have debt...they still HAVE to sell their players to recoup money to repay debts and stabilize their club...this is the point im making and it is the truth >.<
Gotze sold because they have too, and they are making €37million profit on him, which goes ALONG way to helping their financial situation. Champions league money this year will be about €40million. Lewandowski is already sold too so that money which will be €40million (atleast imo) makes it €117million from champions league and transfers alone which should put Dortmund back into the clear and get them rebuilding again. But im pretty sure the money they will get they will not invest to much of it. That TV deal that you mention also will help and probably will be the transfer fund they might spend.
Not at all. Götze is a completely different situation from Sahin and Kagawa. They let those 2 guys leave because they didn't need them. Gündogan is better than Sahin and the incoming Reus was better than Kagawa. Götze would only sign a new contract if they put a buyout clause in it, so their hands are tied. Lewandowski will only be sold if they feel they can find a suitable replacement this summer (perhaps Dzeko or Negredo). If they can't replace him, Dortmund will gladly let Lewandowski's contract run out and have him leave for free.
Dortmund didn't "need" Sahin? The guy was voted the frikkin best player of the Bundesliga that year. Gundogan turned out to be a great replacement which makes the sale look good in hindsight, but at the point of sale without a clear replacement for Sahin in mind, it only looks like a move that would hurt the team. Reus' arrival was confirmed before Kagawa's sale so there was no doubt Dortmund had a reliable replacement lined up.
On April 26 2013 06:15 Pandemona wrote: But they are still in debt....they still have debt...they still HAVE to sell their players to recoup money to repay debts and stabilize their club...this is the point im making and it is the truth >.<
Gotze sold because they have too, and they are making €37million profit on him, which goes ALONG way to helping their financial situation. Champions league money this year will be about €40million. Lewandowski is already sold too so that money which will be €40million (atleast imo) makes it €117million from champions league and transfers alone which should put Dortmund back into the clear and get them rebuilding again. But im pretty sure the money they will get they will not invest to much of it. That TV deal that you mention also will help and probably will be the transfer fund they might spend.
Gotze was sold because of a transfer clause. Once again, you are dead wrong. Just stop. You can no clue about BVB's finances.
OMG . Please stop posting spouting im wrong with just your words. You think Dortmund are this happy rich club like Bayern and have money because they won the league 2 seasons ago...and continue to sell their best players! Lol. The reason that release clause is in their is because they agree'd it for two reasons. 1 Gotze didn't think Dortmund would become a force to be reckoned with and wanted an easy escape option and 2 Dortmund agree'd to this knowing they would get top $$ for him if not they can keep him to rebuild their team. THEY WERE HAPPY knowing this, the reason both parties signed the contract! It is the same with basically ALL Benfica and Porto players, who are another two good solid clubs in Europe who are feeder clubs for the rest! They even do it with their managers now after Mourinho and AVB!! Stop with the BM towards people who don't agree with your statements and then pull out ridiculous comments about people who you don't even know. No one has ever even seen you comment in this thread before >.<
OMG "you have no clue how debt works" ARE YOU KIDDING ME...jesus christ...YES most clubs through out Europe run with debt, but not STUPID uncontrollable €100million + debts..thats when you have issues with interest payments being stupidly high...Like i said this season with the mass of money they will be getting in from Transfers (again..) and champions league money and the new TV deal in Germany they will be slashing that debt probably by 75% and will be fine....but as of now THEY ARE NOT out of the woods and need to sell. Hense Gotze contract release clause and them happy to sell and Lewandowski following him out the door, who knows maybe more sales might come in the summer...
@City But you not read the reports? The agent said in "the bild" that it is a done deal, Dortmund are happy and the deal is agreed. Lewandowski has already signed. According to the agent i know, but i would say that is pretty good word to take. I only linked the other day a quote from Guillem Ballague (yes he is only a press guy, but he follows Pep so much) that Lewandowski was a done deal with a club..which he believes to be Bayern Munchen aswell. And i have to say, im pretty sure Dortmund would not HAPPILY let a player go for free which they can make €40million off quite easily....and have that money to reinvest in the squad or financially stabilize it...would be awful business
Barthel is quoted as telling Sport Bild: "We are in agreement with a club and have the right to change this summer. All the claims of Dortmund are met."
Every sentence you write is wrong X(
"OMG . Please stop posting spouting im wrong with just your words." Im stating what happened aka facts.
"You think Dortmund are this happy rich club like Bayern and have money because they won the league 2 seasons ago" They won the bundesliga last season and the season prior. Also they won the German cup last season. They also sell their stadium tickets out, EVERY GAME. They have money.
"and continue to sell their best players! Lol." Read my last post.
"1 Gotze didn't think Dortmund would become a force to be reckoned with and wanted an easy escape option" 37million euro buyout clause is an easy escape option? O_o
"2 Dortmund agree'd to this knowing they would get top $$ for him if not they can keep him to rebuild their team." Rebuild there team from what? Budesliga champions?
"Stop with the BM towards people who don't agree with your statements" BM? Im just stating facts. -> You have no clue what you are talking about.
"YES most clubs through out Europe run with debt, but not STUPID uncontrollable €100million + debts." Sure, but does BVB even have "uncontrollable €100million + debts". hmmm? Do they? Or did they in the past....? Also "€100million + debts" isn't even uncontrollable. Do you have any idea how much new stadiums cost? Do you think teams have that kind of money on hand?
"and champions league money and the new TV deal in Germany they will be slashing that debt probably by 75%" Because you know BVB's finances? :O
"and them happy to sell and Lewandowski following him out the door," They are incredibly upset with losing Lewy. They have been struggling to get him to resign with BVB for a very long time but he keeps insisting that he wants to leave. With a year left on his contract this summer, bvb will have to sell him or risk losing him on a free.
On April 26 2013 06:15 Pandemona wrote: But they are still in debt....they still have debt...they still HAVE to sell their players to recoup money to repay debts and stabilize their club...this is the point im making and it is the truth >.<
Gotze sold because they have too, and they are making €37million profit on him, which goes ALONG way to helping their financial situation. Champions league money this year will be about €40million. Lewandowski is already sold too so that money which will be €40million (atleast imo) makes it €117million from champions league and transfers alone which should put Dortmund back into the clear and get them rebuilding again. But im pretty sure the money they will get they will not invest to much of it. That TV deal that you mention also will help and probably will be the transfer fund they might spend.
You really believe Dortmund will get 40mil for Lewandowski? His contract expires in 2014. For any club, that money will be much better spent on other quality strikers... I like Dortmund and Lewy, but I really think 40mil is too much of an exaggeration even with a super hattrick against Real Madrid on his resume. Hell Robin Van Persie moved to Man United, Arsenal's league rival for 24mil GBP I believe.
That being said, if the proceeds from the sale of Lewandowski and Gotze go into obtaining another reliable pair of feet up front like Edin Dzeko (who was lightly linked with Dortmund earlier this season) and another midfielder, I can see Dortmund still giving Bayern something to sweat about next season.
RVP moved to ManU when he was 28/29 years old? Lewandowski is 24. He has many more years in him and he still hasn't peaked. You can't compare these two players in terms of transfer value.
On April 26 2013 06:15 Pandemona wrote: But they are still in debt....they still have debt...they still HAVE to sell their players to recoup money to repay debts and stabilize their club...this is the point im making and it is the truth >.<
Gotze sold because they have too, and they are making €37million profit on him, which goes ALONG way to helping their financial situation. Champions league money this year will be about €40million. Lewandowski is already sold too so that money which will be €40million (atleast imo) makes it €117million from champions league and transfers alone which should put Dortmund back into the clear and get them rebuilding again. But im pretty sure the money they will get they will not invest to much of it. That TV deal that you mention also will help and probably will be the transfer fund they might spend.
Not at all. Götze is a completely different situation from Sahin and Kagawa. They let those 2 guys leave because they didn't need them. Gündogan is better than Sahin and the incoming Reus was better than Kagawa. Götze would only sign a new contract if they put a buyout clause in it, so their hands are tied. Lewandowski will only be sold if they feel they can find a suitable replacement this summer (perhaps Dzeko or Negredo). If they can't replace him, Dortmund will gladly let Lewandowski's contract run out and have him leave for free.
Dortmund didn't "need" Sahin? The guy was voted the frikkin best player of the Bundesliga that year. Gundogan turned out to be a great replacement which makes the sale look good in hindsight, but at the point of sale without a clear replacement for Sahin in mind, it only looks like a move that would hurt the team. Reus' arrival was confirmed before Kagawa's sale so there was no doubt Dortmund had a reliable replacement lined up.
No, they didn't need Sahin. They sold him for €10m with no questions asked, because he wanted to go. It never crossed their minds to force him to see out his contract like they might do with Lewandowski. Sahin isn't the kind of personality you'd want to build a team around anyway.
It's their balance sheet etc. till 2011. Anyway while they're not very liquid but their solvency is low but not dangerous at all really and they have a nice cash flow going. Add to that the increasing income from the last few years BVB doesn't need to sell anyone but I'm sure the money is welcome anyway.
Edit: The height of the debt really doesn't matter as long as you can pay it back + interest. The way you pay this back is with your cash flow and since their cash flow is positive there really is no need to sell players to pay back their debt.
On April 26 2013 06:15 Pandemona wrote: But they are still in debt....they still have debt...they still HAVE to sell their players to recoup money to repay debts and stabilize their club...this is the point im making and it is the truth >.<
Gotze sold because they have too, and they are making €37million profit on him, which goes ALONG way to helping their financial situation. Champions league money this year will be about €40million. Lewandowski is already sold too so that money which will be €40million (atleast imo) makes it €117million from champions league and transfers alone which should put Dortmund back into the clear and get them rebuilding again. But im pretty sure the money they will get they will not invest to much of it. That TV deal that you mention also will help and probably will be the transfer fund they might spend.
Not at all. Götze is a completely different situation from Sahin and Kagawa. They let those 2 guys leave because they didn't need them. Gündogan is better than Sahin and the incoming Reus was better than Kagawa. Götze would only sign a new contract if they put a buyout clause in it, so their hands are tied. Lewandowski will only be sold if they feel they can find a suitable replacement this summer (perhaps Dzeko or Negredo). If they can't replace him, Dortmund will gladly let Lewandowski's contract run out and have him leave for free.
Dortmund didn't "need" Sahin? The guy was voted the frikkin best player of the Bundesliga that year. Gundogan turned out to be a great replacement which makes the sale look good in hindsight, but at the point of sale without a clear replacement for Sahin in mind, it only looks like a move that would hurt the team. Reus' arrival was confirmed before Kagawa's sale so there was no doubt Dortmund had a reliable replacement lined up.
I think you're right about Reus. They signed the contract in the winter but he was set to join in the summer? Still that works against Pandamona's theory of BVB being in uncontrollable debt.
It's just normal football life. Big clubs take the good players from the not so good clubs and those take the players from even worse clubs.
"Not so good clubs..." Dortmund is 2-time Champion in the last 2 years and CL Winner, Idiot.
Lol Dude Dortmund have 0 money....they would be fucking stupid as fuck, if they did not accept big $$s offers for their players. The reason Dortmund won the league the last time was because Bayern had a HUGE off season! Inter team fighting, players unrest and manager problems.
But financially, the main reason this transfer has happened, Dortmund had no choice. The same when Lewandoski goes and the same when probably Reus and Hummels go too.
Bvb have a huge surplus of money. They are just being safe with it. They won 2 bundesligas in a row because they were amazing and went on an amazing run. The reason Bayern won this year is because they have spent a ridiculous amount of money. This transfer is going to happen because Lewy wants higher wages that bvb can, but doesn't want to pay.
Please lurk more. You have no clue what you are talking about.
Jesus christ oh mighty...i think you just typed a whole paragraph about yourself
Just read that and then read your comment...then check who made the OP of every football based thread in the last year or so on TL.... >.< fml
If you make this much OPs you should read through articles as well. Dortmund has been rich since 2011. Second after Bayern and almost double than the rest in annual revenue in BL. They have enough money to pay competitive salaries even more after this years CL and sponsor runs.
No. They only jumped Schalke after this past season and they are still barely ahead of Schalke.
It's Bayern, a massive, Grand Canyon-sized chasm, then BVB/Schalke, then the rest of the pack. Might change after the 2012-2013 list comes out though.
But they are still in debt....they still have debt...they still HAVE to sell their players to recoup money to repay debts and stabilize their club...this is the point im making and it is the truth >.<
Gotze sold because they have too, and they are making €37million profit on him, which goes ALONG way to helping their financial situation. Champions league money this year will be about €40million. Lewandowski is already sold too so that money which will be €40million (atleast imo) makes it €117million from champions league and transfers alone which should put Dortmund back into the clear and get them rebuilding again. But im pretty sure the money they will get they will not invest to much of it. That TV deal that you mention also will help and probably will be the transfer fund they might spend.
But it's not the truth. Dortmund is making a huge amount of money now and definitely do not need to sell players to pay off the minimal debt that they have left.
On April 26 2013 06:15 Pandemona wrote: But they are still in debt....they still have debt...they still HAVE to sell their players to recoup money to repay debts and stabilize their club...this is the point im making and it is the truth >.<
Gotze sold because they have too, and they are making €37million profit on him, which goes ALONG way to helping their financial situation. Champions league money this year will be about €40million. Lewandowski is already sold too so that money which will be €40million (atleast imo) makes it €117million from champions league and transfers alone which should put Dortmund back into the clear and get them rebuilding again. But im pretty sure the money they will get they will not invest to much of it. That TV deal that you mention also will help and probably will be the transfer fund they might spend.
Not at all. Götze is a completely different situation from Sahin and Kagawa. They let those 2 guys leave because they didn't need them. Gündogan is better than Sahin and the incoming Reus was better than Kagawa. Götze would only sign a new contract if they put a buyout clause in it, so their hands are tied. Lewandowski will only be sold if they feel they can find a suitable replacement this summer (perhaps Dzeko or Negredo). If they can't replace him, Dortmund will gladly let Lewandowski's contract run out and have him leave for free.
Dortmund didn't "need" Sahin? The guy was voted the frikkin best player of the Bundesliga that year. Gundogan turned out to be a great replacement which makes the sale look good in hindsight, but at the point of sale without a clear replacement for Sahin in mind, it only looks like a move that would hurt the team. Reus' arrival was confirmed before Kagawa's sale so there was no doubt Dortmund had a reliable replacement lined up.
No, they didn't need Sahin. They sold him for €10m with no questions asked, because he wanted to go. It never crossed their minds to force him to see out his contract like they might do with Lewandowski. Sahin isn't the kind of personality you'd want to build a team around anyway.
I think they were upset with him leaving. BVB raised Sahin and he was their star. The next year, without Sahin, many other players stepped up and his absence wasn't noticed. Now that hes back, he is completely outclassed by Gundogan. I rate many players on BVB ahead of Sahin now.
On April 26 2013 06:15 Pandemona wrote: But they are still in debt....they still have debt...they still HAVE to sell their players to recoup money to repay debts and stabilize their club...this is the point im making and it is the truth >.<
Gotze sold because they have too, and they are making €37million profit on him, which goes ALONG way to helping their financial situation. Champions league money this year will be about €40million. Lewandowski is already sold too so that money which will be €40million (atleast imo) makes it €117million from champions league and transfers alone which should put Dortmund back into the clear and get them rebuilding again. But im pretty sure the money they will get they will not invest to much of it. That TV deal that you mention also will help and probably will be the transfer fund they might spend.
Gotze was sold because of a transfer clause. Once again, you are dead wrong. Just stop. You can no clue about BVB's finances.
OMG . Please stop posting spouting im wrong with just your words. You think Dortmund are this happy rich club like Bayern and have money because they won the league 2 seasons ago...and continue to sell their best players! Lol. The reason that release clause is in their is because they agree'd it for two reasons. 1 Gotze didn't think Dortmund would become a force to be reckoned with and wanted an easy escape option and 2 Dortmund agree'd to this knowing they would get top $$ for him if not they can keep him to rebuild their team. THEY WERE HAPPY knowing this, the reason both parties signed the contract! It is the same with basically ALL Benfica and Porto players, who are another two good solid clubs in Europe who are feeder clubs for the rest! They even do it with their managers now after Mourinho and AVB!! Stop with the BM towards people who don't agree with your statements and then pull out ridiculous comments about people who you don't even know. No one has ever even seen you comment in this thread before >.<
OMG "you have no clue how debt works" ARE YOU KIDDING ME...jesus christ...YES most clubs through out Europe run with debt, but not STUPID uncontrollable €100million + debts..thats when you have issues with interest payments being stupidly high...Like i said this season with the mass of money they will be getting in from Transfers (again..) and champions league money and the new TV deal in Germany they will be slashing that debt probably by 75% and will be fine....but as of now THEY ARE NOT out of the woods and need to sell. Hense Gotze contract release clause and them happy to sell and Lewandowski following him out the door, who knows maybe more sales might come in the summer...
@City But you not read the reports? The agent said in "the bild" that it is a done deal, Dortmund are happy and the deal is agreed. Lewandowski has already signed. According to the agent i know, but i would say that is pretty good word to take. I only linked the other day a quote from Guillem Ballague (yes he is only a press guy, but he follows Pep so much) that Lewandowski was a done deal with a club..which he believes to be Bayern Munchen aswell. And i have to say, im pretty sure Dortmund would not HAPPILY let a player go for free which they can make €40million off quite easily....and have that money to reinvest in the squad or financially stabilize it...would be awful business
Barthel is quoted as telling Sport Bild: "We are in agreement with a club and have the right to change this summer. All the claims of Dortmund are met."
"You think Dortmund are this happy rich club like Bayern and have money because they won the league 2 seasons ago" They won the bundesliga last season and the season prior. Also they won the German cup last season. They also sell their stadium tickets out, EVERY GAME. They have money.
"2 Dortmund agree'd to this knowing they would get top $$ for him if not they can keep him to rebuild their team." Rebuild there team from what? Budesliga champions?
Like you say, Dortmund should have money for their recent successes and the amazing support from the fans. However that still does not let them compare financially to the likes of Bayern. Dortmund have money but they are still stabilizing.
That can be seen in the team taking a lot of youth products. They may be 2 time Bundesliga champions in the last 3 years, but they still need rebuilding. Sahin, Kagawa, Gotze, and Lewandowski were all among the best players in the Bundesliga at the time of sale (or potential sale). Gundogan and Reus are good replacements for the core team. At the moment, Dortmund have one of the best starting XIs in the world, but their substitutes are nowhere close to that level. Who would you see playing in Gotze's position once he leaves? Grosskreutz? How about Lewandowski? Schieber? Not bad players mind you, but no where near the level of Gotze and Lewandowski.
On April 26 2013 06:15 Pandemona wrote: But they are still in debt....they still have debt...they still HAVE to sell their players to recoup money to repay debts and stabilize their club...this is the point im making and it is the truth >.<
Gotze sold because they have too, and they are making €37million profit on him, which goes ALONG way to helping their financial situation. Champions league money this year will be about €40million. Lewandowski is already sold too so that money which will be €40million (atleast imo) makes it €117million from champions league and transfers alone which should put Dortmund back into the clear and get them rebuilding again. But im pretty sure the money they will get they will not invest to much of it. That TV deal that you mention also will help and probably will be the transfer fund they might spend.
You really believe Dortmund will get 40mil for Lewandowski? His contract expires in 2014. For any club, that money will be much better spent on other quality strikers... I like Dortmund and Lewy, but I really think 40mil is too much of an exaggeration even with a super hattrick against Real Madrid on his resume. Hell Robin Van Persie moved to Man United, Arsenal's league rival for 24mil GBP I believe.
That being said, if the proceeds from the sale of Lewandowski and Gotze go into obtaining another reliable pair of feet up front like Edin Dzeko (who was lightly linked with Dortmund earlier this season) and another midfielder, I can see Dortmund still giving Bayern something to sweat about next season.
RVP moved to ManU when he was 28/29 years old? Lewandowski is 24. He has many more years in him and he still hasn't peaked. You can't compare these two players in terms of transfer value.
Of course not. However, RVP is generally accepted as a world class player in the peak of his career at the time he was sold. Lewandowski is nowhere near that. Let alone the fact that RVP was sold to Arsenal's biggest league rival which should have beefed up the price somewhat.
Edit: Lewy's performance against Madrid proves that he is a potential great talent and a big game player to top it off. However he still needs a team behind him to get these goals. RVP was carrying Arsenal on his back (no offense Gooners) and was still top scorer in the EPL.
Dortmund has been making financial leaps in the last couple years and have worked away much of their debt at an astonishing rate. This comes from selling players and better commercial deals. The financial report doesn't take into account this years champions league run, but it's safe to say that Dortmund at the moment have plenty of funds.
However one key point in Dortmund's finances is the low wage budget in comparison to bigger teams. At 80million at the beginning of 2012/2013 it's not difficult to see why players would decide to leave for Bayern (158) or Madrid (268!)
Dortmund has been making financial leaps in the last couple years and have worked away much of their debt at an astonishing rate. This comes from selling players and better commercial deals. The financial report doesn't take into account this years champions league run, but it's safe to say that Dortmund at the moment have plenty of funds.
However one key point in Dortmund's finances is the low wage budget in comparison to bigger teams. At 80million at the beginning of 2012/2013 it's not difficult to see why players would decide to leave for Bayern (158) or Madrid (268!)
The bottom line is this:
1) BVB went through massive financial troubles around a decade ago, nearly going bankrupt. Magic and unicorns brought them back, and combined with fantastic financial managing, they still have debt, but not a massive amount. Probably no more than any other competitive club needs to manage.
2) BVB has skyrocketed in terms of money made over the past couple years (2 Bundesliga titles and now this CL run). However, they still can't compete with any of the big clubs (Bayern, Barca/RM, or any of the English clubs) in pure spending power.
For those of you not reading the link, Dortmund is now 11, only 25M ahead of Schalke, where they were 16th last year, and were behind Schalke in revenue. They making about half of what Bayern makes, and they make about 250M-400M less than Man U, Barca, or Real Madrid.
3) How BVB came to win two titles in a row and then compete for a CL championship all within three years is a miracle. They didn't have any kind of real spending power prior to 2010, and suddenly are competing. They still don't even spend half as much money as any other club out there on player wages.
For those non-readers, this article ranks all sports franchises in the world by amount spent on players. BVB is currently number 70, and were number 86 last year. Both years they are behind Schalke. The list is topped by Barca, Real Madrid, Man U, and Chelsea. Bayern is 8 (12 last year). Again, Bayern's player payroll is double BVB's, and Barca's is 40M higher than Bayern's.
It's a fucking miracle. Great story for football. They turned far, far less money than any other club has into multiple trophies. But no, they are not paupers throwing together a team off of pennies and dimes; they have plenty of money to pay players and aren't some 3rd-rate team that is just winning once in 20 years and is then going to collapse. They have the revenue to stay a consistent European force. And no, they are not completely crushed by debt.
On April 26 2013 07:11 Stratos_speAr wrote: It's a fucking miracle. Great story for football. They turned far, far less money than any other club has into multiple trophies. But no, they are not paupers throwing together a team off of pennies and dimes, and no, they are not completely crushed by debt.
They are no Porto, but if Dortmund manage to win the Champions League it's a pretty close achievement.
On April 26 2013 06:15 Pandemona wrote: But they are still in debt....they still have debt...they still HAVE to sell their players to recoup money to repay debts and stabilize their club...this is the point im making and it is the truth >.<
Gotze sold because they have too, and they are making €37million profit on him, which goes ALONG way to helping their financial situation. Champions league money this year will be about €40million. Lewandowski is already sold too so that money which will be €40million (atleast imo) makes it €117million from champions league and transfers alone which should put Dortmund back into the clear and get them rebuilding again. But im pretty sure the money they will get they will not invest to much of it. That TV deal that you mention also will help and probably will be the transfer fund they might spend.
Not at all. Götze is a completely different situation from Sahin and Kagawa. They let those 2 guys leave because they didn't need them. Gündogan is better than Sahin and the incoming Reus was better than Kagawa. Götze would only sign a new contract if they put a buyout clause in it, so their hands are tied. Lewandowski will only be sold if they feel they can find a suitable replacement this summer (perhaps Dzeko or Negredo). If they can't replace him, Dortmund will gladly let Lewandowski's contract run out and have him leave for free.
Dortmund didn't "need" Sahin? The guy was voted the frikkin best player of the Bundesliga that year. Gundogan turned out to be a great replacement which makes the sale look good in hindsight, but at the point of sale without a clear replacement for Sahin in mind, it only looks like a move that would hurt the team. Reus' arrival was confirmed before Kagawa's sale so there was no doubt Dortmund had a reliable replacement lined up.
No, they didn't need Sahin. They sold him for €10m with no questions asked, because he wanted to go. It never crossed their minds to force him to see out his contract like they might do with Lewandowski. Sahin isn't the kind of personality you'd want to build a team around anyway.
I think they were upset with him leaving. BVB raised Sahin and he was their star. The next year, without Sahin, many other players stepped up and his absence wasn't noticed. Now that hes back, he is completely outclassed by Gundogan. I rate many players on BVB ahead of Sahin now.
Oh yeah, I'm not trying to say that they were pleased with him leaving, or that they wanted him to go. The point is that he wasn't sold to paper over the cracks of some insatiable debt. It's not very hard to get extra money out of Real Madrid when it comes to transfers, but they took the €10m without any fuss.
On April 26 2013 06:15 Pandemona wrote: But they are still in debt....they still have debt...they still HAVE to sell their players to recoup money to repay debts and stabilize their club...this is the point im making and it is the truth >.<
Gotze sold because they have too, and they are making €37million profit on him, which goes ALONG way to helping their financial situation. Champions league money this year will be about €40million. Lewandowski is already sold too so that money which will be €40million (atleast imo) makes it €117million from champions league and transfers alone which should put Dortmund back into the clear and get them rebuilding again. But im pretty sure the money they will get they will not invest to much of it. That TV deal that you mention also will help and probably will be the transfer fund they might spend.
Gotze was sold because of a transfer clause. Once again, you are dead wrong. Just stop. You can no clue about BVB's finances.
OMG . Please stop posting spouting im wrong with just your words. You think Dortmund are this happy rich club like Bayern and have money because they won the league 2 seasons ago...and continue to sell their best players! Lol. The reason that release clause is in their is because they agree'd it for two reasons. 1 Gotze didn't think Dortmund would become a force to be reckoned with and wanted an easy escape option and 2 Dortmund agree'd to this knowing they would get top $$ for him if not they can keep him to rebuild their team. THEY WERE HAPPY knowing this, the reason both parties signed the contract! It is the same with basically ALL Benfica and Porto players, who are another two good solid clubs in Europe who are feeder clubs for the rest! They even do it with their managers now after Mourinho and AVB!! Stop with the BM towards people who don't agree with your statements and then pull out ridiculous comments about people who you don't even know. No one has ever even seen you comment in this thread before >.<
OMG "you have no clue how debt works" ARE YOU KIDDING ME...jesus christ...YES most clubs through out Europe run with debt, but not STUPID uncontrollable €100million + debts..thats when you have issues with interest payments being stupidly high...Like i said this season with the mass of money they will be getting in from Transfers (again..) and champions league money and the new TV deal in Germany they will be slashing that debt probably by 75% and will be fine....but as of now THEY ARE NOT out of the woods and need to sell. Hense Gotze contract release clause and them happy to sell and Lewandowski following him out the door, who knows maybe more sales might come in the summer...
@City But you not read the reports? The agent said in "the bild" that it is a done deal, Dortmund are happy and the deal is agreed. Lewandowski has already signed. According to the agent i know, but i would say that is pretty good word to take. I only linked the other day a quote from Guillem Ballague (yes he is only a press guy, but he follows Pep so much) that Lewandowski was a done deal with a club..which he believes to be Bayern Munchen aswell. And i have to say, im pretty sure Dortmund would not HAPPILY let a player go for free which they can make €40million off quite easily....and have that money to reinvest in the squad or financially stabilize it...would be awful business
Barthel is quoted as telling Sport Bild: "We are in agreement with a club and have the right to change this summer. All the claims of Dortmund are met."
"You think Dortmund are this happy rich club like Bayern and have money because they won the league 2 seasons ago" They won the bundesliga last season and the season prior. Also they won the German cup last season. They also sell their stadium tickets out, EVERY GAME. They have money.
"2 Dortmund agree'd to this knowing they would get top $$ for him if not they can keep him to rebuild their team." Rebuild there team from what? Budesliga champions?
Like you say, Dortmund should have money for their recent successes and the amazing support from the fans. However that still does not let them compare financially to the likes of Bayern. Dortmund have money but they are still stabilizing.
That can be seen in the team taking a lot of youth products. They may be 2 time Bundesliga champions in the last 3 years, but they still need rebuilding. Sahin, Kagawa, Gotze, and Lewandowski were all among the best players in the Bundesliga at the time of sale (or potential sale). Gundogan and Reus are good replacements for the core team. At the moment, Dortmund have one of the best starting XIs in the world, but their substitutes are nowhere close to that level. Who would you see playing in Gotze's position once he leaves? Grosskreutz? How about Lewandowski? Schieber? Not bad players mind you, but no where near the level of Gotze and Lewandowski.
Klopp will do what he has done the past two years. Work his magic. Maybe bring in players like Eriksen or Isco? Maybe Wolski to keep a polish trio(I can only dream). Either way, Gotze or Lewy do not carry the team and they can be replaced. Maybe not by a player as the same caliber but something that will work. They have a very talented team. They will manage although Bayern is probably too far ahead for BVB to win the Bundesliga anytime soon.
On April 26 2013 06:15 Steveling wrote: You guys are ignoring a very important fact that gives away dortmunds state. Each year they sell off their best players.
That can possibly mean two things, either that their president/stockholders don't care for the team's prestige and want to make as much cash as possible or that the team has big debt that needs to be paid. No other way to think around this.
you forgot another factor: There's no point in keeping players that absolutely want to leave. Also, you want to keep the salaries reasonable for the entire squad. If you have one player earning twice as much as most of the others, it will ultimately result in enviousness. It should be Dortmund's (and any rising team's) goal to constantly raise their entire squad's quality. Losing a single top player is fine if they can in turn replace 3 weaker players with slightly stronger ones.
On April 26 2013 06:15 Pandemona wrote: But they are still in debt....they still have debt...they still HAVE to sell their players to recoup money to repay debts and stabilize their club...this is the point im making and it is the truth >.<
Gotze sold because they have too, and they are making €37million profit on him, which goes ALONG way to helping their financial situation. Champions league money this year will be about €40million. Lewandowski is already sold too so that money which will be €40million (atleast imo) makes it €117million from champions league and transfers alone which should put Dortmund back into the clear and get them rebuilding again. But im pretty sure the money they will get they will not invest to much of it. That TV deal that you mention also will help and probably will be the transfer fund they might spend.
You really believe Dortmund will get 40mil for Lewandowski? His contract expires in 2014. For any club, that money will be much better spent on other quality strikers... I like Dortmund and Lewy, but I really think 40mil is too much of an exaggeration even with a super hattrick against Real Madrid on his resume. Hell Robin Van Persie moved to Man United, Arsenal's league rival for 24mil GBP I believe.
That being said, if the proceeds from the sale of Lewandowski and Gotze go into obtaining another reliable pair of feet up front like Edin Dzeko (who was lightly linked with Dortmund earlier this season) and another midfielder, I can see Dortmund still giving Bayern something to sweat about next season.
RVP moved to ManU when he was 28/29 years old? Lewandowski is 24. He has many more years in him and he still hasn't peaked. You can't compare these two players in terms of transfer value.
Of course not. However, RVP is generally accepted as a world class player in the peak of his career at the time he was sold. Lewandowski is nowhere near that. Let alone the fact that RVP was sold to Arsenal's biggest league rival which should have beefed up the price somewhat.
Edit: Lewy's performance against Madrid proves that he is a potential great talent and a big game player to top it off. However he still needs a team behind him to get these goals. RVP was carrying Arsenal on his back (no offense Gooners) and was still top scorer in the EPL.
RVP probably would have been sold for more as well if that cunt didn't go out and publicly say he wasn't extending his contract. And he wasn't exactly a one man show.
There are some great solo goals and some free kick goals, but nearly every goal either has some beautiful through ball from Alex Song or a tap in created by a great run by Gervinho or Theo Walcott or someone else.
On April 26 2013 06:15 Pandemona wrote: But they are still in debt....they still have debt...they still HAVE to sell their players to recoup money to repay debts and stabilize their club...this is the point im making and it is the truth >.<
Gotze sold because they have too, and they are making €37million profit on him, which goes ALONG way to helping their financial situation. Champions league money this year will be about €40million. Lewandowski is already sold too so that money which will be €40million (atleast imo) makes it €117million from champions league and transfers alone which should put Dortmund back into the clear and get them rebuilding again. But im pretty sure the money they will get they will not invest to much of it. That TV deal that you mention also will help and probably will be the transfer fund they might spend.
Gotze was sold because of a transfer clause. Once again, you are dead wrong. Just stop. You can no clue about BVB's finances.
OMG . Please stop posting spouting im wrong with just your words. You think Dortmund are this happy rich club like Bayern and have money because they won the league 2 seasons ago...and continue to sell their best players! Lol. The reason that release clause is in their is because they agree'd it for two reasons. 1 Gotze didn't think Dortmund would become a force to be reckoned with and wanted an easy escape option and 2 Dortmund agree'd to this knowing they would get top $$ for him if not they can keep him to rebuild their team. THEY WERE HAPPY knowing this, the reason both parties signed the contract! It is the same with basically ALL Benfica and Porto players, who are another two good solid clubs in Europe who are feeder clubs for the rest! They even do it with their managers now after Mourinho and AVB!! Stop with the BM towards people who don't agree with your statements and then pull out ridiculous comments about people who you don't even know. No one has ever even seen you comment in this thread before >.<
OMG "you have no clue how debt works" ARE YOU KIDDING ME...jesus christ...YES most clubs through out Europe run with debt, but not STUPID uncontrollable €100million + debts..thats when you have issues with interest payments being stupidly high...Like i said this season with the mass of money they will be getting in from Transfers (again..) and champions league money and the new TV deal in Germany they will be slashing that debt probably by 75% and will be fine....but as of now THEY ARE NOT out of the woods and need to sell. Hense Gotze contract release clause and them happy to sell and Lewandowski following him out the door, who knows maybe more sales might come in the summer...
@City But you not read the reports? The agent said in "the bild" that it is a done deal, Dortmund are happy and the deal is agreed. Lewandowski has already signed. According to the agent i know, but i would say that is pretty good word to take. I only linked the other day a quote from Guillem Ballague (yes he is only a press guy, but he follows Pep so much) that Lewandowski was a done deal with a club..which he believes to be Bayern Munchen aswell. And i have to say, im pretty sure Dortmund would not HAPPILY let a player go for free which they can make €40million off quite easily....and have that money to reinvest in the squad or financially stabilize it...would be awful business
Barthel is quoted as telling Sport Bild: "We are in agreement with a club and have the right to change this summer. All the claims of Dortmund are met."
"You think Dortmund are this happy rich club like Bayern and have money because they won the league 2 seasons ago" They won the bundesliga last season and the season prior. Also they won the German cup last season. They also sell their stadium tickets out, EVERY GAME. They have money.
"2 Dortmund agree'd to this knowing they would get top $$ for him if not they can keep him to rebuild their team." Rebuild there team from what? Budesliga champions?
Like you say, Dortmund should have money for their recent successes and the amazing support from the fans. However that still does not let them compare financially to the likes of Bayern. Dortmund have money but they are still stabilizing.
That can be seen in the team taking a lot of youth products. They may be 2 time Bundesliga champions in the last 3 years, but they still need rebuilding. Sahin, Kagawa, Gotze, and Lewandowski were all among the best players in the Bundesliga at the time of sale (or potential sale). Gundogan and Reus are good replacements for the core team. At the moment, Dortmund have one of the best starting XIs in the world, but their substitutes are nowhere close to that level. Who would you see playing in Gotze's position once he leaves? Grosskreutz? How about Lewandowski? Schieber? Not bad players mind you, but no where near the level of Gotze and Lewandowski.
Klopp will do what he has done the past two years. Work his magic. Maybe bring in players like Eriksen or Isco? Maybe Wolski to keep a polish trio(I can only dream). Either way, Gotze or Lewy do not carry the team and they can be replaced. Maybe not by a player as the same caliber but something that will work. They have a very talented team. They will manage although Bayern is probably too far ahead for BVB to win the Bundesliga anytime soon.
I don't know if Dortmund have the money/wage structure and/or prestige to bring in big names like Isco and Eriksen. I wonder if maybe they'll be looking at a player like Vitesse's Wilfried Bony (though I think Spurs will be trying really hard to get him). Dortmund still have many talented youth players that haven't worked their way into the team yet, like Bittencourt or Leitner as well.
On April 26 2013 06:15 Pandemona wrote: But they are still in debt....they still have debt...they still HAVE to sell their players to recoup money to repay debts and stabilize their club...this is the point im making and it is the truth >.<
Gotze sold because they have too, and they are making €37million profit on him, which goes ALONG way to helping their financial situation. Champions league money this year will be about €40million. Lewandowski is already sold too so that money which will be €40million (atleast imo) makes it €117million from champions league and transfers alone which should put Dortmund back into the clear and get them rebuilding again. But im pretty sure the money they will get they will not invest to much of it. That TV deal that you mention also will help and probably will be the transfer fund they might spend.
Gotze was sold because of a transfer clause. Once again, you are dead wrong. Just stop. You can no clue about BVB's finances.
OMG . Please stop posting spouting im wrong with just your words. You think Dortmund are this happy rich club like Bayern and have money because they won the league 2 seasons ago...and continue to sell their best players! Lol. The reason that release clause is in their is because they agree'd it for two reasons. 1 Gotze didn't think Dortmund would become a force to be reckoned with and wanted an easy escape option and 2 Dortmund agree'd to this knowing they would get top $$ for him if not they can keep him to rebuild their team. THEY WERE HAPPY knowing this, the reason both parties signed the contract! It is the same with basically ALL Benfica and Porto players, who are another two good solid clubs in Europe who are feeder clubs for the rest! They even do it with their managers now after Mourinho and AVB!! Stop with the BM towards people who don't agree with your statements and then pull out ridiculous comments about people who you don't even know. No one has ever even seen you comment in this thread before >.<
OMG "you have no clue how debt works" ARE YOU KIDDING ME...jesus christ...YES most clubs through out Europe run with debt, but not STUPID uncontrollable €100million + debts..thats when you have issues with interest payments being stupidly high...Like i said this season with the mass of money they will be getting in from Transfers (again..) and champions league money and the new TV deal in Germany they will be slashing that debt probably by 75% and will be fine....but as of now THEY ARE NOT out of the woods and need to sell. Hense Gotze contract release clause and them happy to sell and Lewandowski following him out the door, who knows maybe more sales might come in the summer...
@City But you not read the reports? The agent said in "the bild" that it is a done deal, Dortmund are happy and the deal is agreed. Lewandowski has already signed. According to the agent i know, but i would say that is pretty good word to take. I only linked the other day a quote from Guillem Ballague (yes he is only a press guy, but he follows Pep so much) that Lewandowski was a done deal with a club..which he believes to be Bayern Munchen aswell. And i have to say, im pretty sure Dortmund would not HAPPILY let a player go for free which they can make €40million off quite easily....and have that money to reinvest in the squad or financially stabilize it...would be awful business
Barthel is quoted as telling Sport Bild: "We are in agreement with a club and have the right to change this summer. All the claims of Dortmund are met."
"You think Dortmund are this happy rich club like Bayern and have money because they won the league 2 seasons ago" They won the bundesliga last season and the season prior. Also they won the German cup last season. They also sell their stadium tickets out, EVERY GAME. They have money.
"2 Dortmund agree'd to this knowing they would get top $$ for him if not they can keep him to rebuild their team." Rebuild there team from what? Budesliga champions?
Like you say, Dortmund should have money for their recent successes and the amazing support from the fans. However that still does not let them compare financially to the likes of Bayern. Dortmund have money but they are still stabilizing.
That can be seen in the team taking a lot of youth products. They may be 2 time Bundesliga champions in the last 3 years, but they still need rebuilding. Sahin, Kagawa, Gotze, and Lewandowski were all among the best players in the Bundesliga at the time of sale (or potential sale). Gundogan and Reus are good replacements for the core team. At the moment, Dortmund have one of the best starting XIs in the world, but their substitutes are nowhere close to that level. Who would you see playing in Gotze's position once he leaves? Grosskreutz? How about Lewandowski? Schieber? Not bad players mind you, but no where near the level of Gotze and Lewandowski.
Klopp will do what he has done the past two years. Work his magic. Maybe bring in players like Eriksen or Isco? Maybe Wolski to keep a polish trio(I can only dream). Either way, Gotze or Lewy do not carry the team and they can be replaced. Maybe not by a player as the same caliber but something that will work. They have a very talented team. They will manage although Bayern is probably too far ahead for BVB to win the Bundesliga anytime soon.
I don't know if Dortmund have the money/wage structure and/or prestige to bring in big names like Isco and Eriksen. I wonder if maybe they'll be looking at a player like Vitesse's Wilfried Bony (though I think Spurs will be trying really hard to get him). Dortmund still have many talented youth players that haven't worked their way into the team yet, like Bittencourt or Leitner as well.
Well, Dortmund definitely has the money to bring in some good players (even if they can't load their roster like other clubs), and on the topic of prestige, they're the second most famous club in Germany, one of the most successful (historically), and they have won two Bundesliga titles, a DFB Pokal, and have made it to the semi's (probably finals, and they have a chance to win the final) of a CL in that span of time as well. I think BVB's name is going to become more prestigious over the following years, as long as they continue to make money and at least appear in Europe consistently (which is by no means impossible).
EPT
