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Good job by MLG. I've been deeply disappointed by MLG recently. I actually loved their tournaments back then with the old spice and hot pocket adverts but since WCS NA, it has been a complete and utter disaster.
It was the right decision to let the admin go. MLG has recently had a PR disaster when it came to WCS NA and unfortunately if people can't do simple tasks well then they need to be let go. It's not hard to tell somebody their time to play in a match (google if timezones are an issue). Because such a minor mistake had a huge impact on the integrity of the tournament since a strong player, Miya, was effectively screwed over.
If we want WCS NA to be a success we need the best people for the job and i'm glad MLG is taking steps and making sure esports can be viewed as a proper sport in the future in America, rather than some shoddy backwater tournament.
Good work MLG, I hope and expect more improvements in the future!
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On May 05 2013 16:49 KawaiiRice wrote:
Admining just takes some common sense and patience. I don't know why mlg admins have such a terrible track record with it...
You misunderestimate the number of stupid people in the world and how many of them are administrators.
Bad administrators are innovative and resourceful, but so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm E-Sports, but neither do we. We will prevail. Mission accomplished.
...And some can even be presidents.
On May 05 2013 11:09 Mauldo wrote:
I don't blame MLG at all. If that admin had done his job properly no conflict would have arisen. But he didn't. In fact, he gave blatantly wrong information that he should have known. Because of him a manager was forced to argue against her player for the good of the tournament, two players were at one point forfeited out, and a qualifier that was otherwise a rather good day of SC2 was marred because this one guy couldn't get his times right.
Sucks for the admin, but you don't fuck up like that and expect to keep your job. That kind of immunity is reserved for whoever the fuck decided to have 512 man, first-come first-serve qualifiers; not some faceless admin.
Having multiple admins individually give out information with no one to double check them is a terrible idea. The result is issues like this, where admins have the potential to give out bad information or make bad decisions that MLG will later regret because they don't check on what people are doing. This could have easily been avoided with a a better system. Either have everything go through a single admin and have it checked by a backup admin, or pair up your admins and have them work together.
As someone who works in a hospital, I understand the medicine administration system and the great lengths they go to make sure it is done right. I'm sure TV stations do the same thing, which is why we rarely see problems with cable TV broadcasts.
Terminating one bad admin isn't going to solve a bad system, because people make mistakes. MLG should be looking into a system where they can correct mistakes before they change the outcome of the bracket or decide games, rather than retroactively punishing people for human error. Be proactive MLG.
Having a bunch of admins running around making calls without anyone to double check them is asking for errors like this. From what I recall, MLG had lots of problems at their live events with admins too.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On May 06 2013 07:50 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2013 16:49 KawaiiRice wrote:
Admining just takes some common sense and patience. I don't know why mlg admins have such a terrible track record with it... You misunderestimate the number of stupid people in the world and how many of them are administrators.
Well, quite.
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On May 06 2013 10:09 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2013 07:50 BronzeKnee wrote:On May 05 2013 16:49 KawaiiRice wrote:
Admining just takes some common sense and patience. I don't know why mlg admins have such a terrible track record with it... You misunderestimate the number of stupid people in the world and how many of them are administrators. Well, quite.
"Misunderestimate" was a term used by President Bush in a speech in 2000. The second part of his post was a play on another quote, this time from 2004 ("Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.")
I guess blame culture, with you not being from the United States, but he really was a poor public speaker.
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he made a bad mistake, but did they really need to kill him ?
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On May 06 2013 15:49 maddogmcgee wrote:
he made a bad mistake, but did they really need to kill him ?
LOL
Tbh firing him is quite rash. MLG would have to fire everybody else who fucked up during the WCS qualifiers as well to be fair. OR they just accept that they've fucked up and do better next time.
Interestingly enough the first person to suggest firing the admin was Moosegills. I do hope neither that nor people on reddit/TL influenced this decision.
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On May 05 2013 10:24 heyoka wrote:
Pretty shitty situation because I don't think there is a fair way to resolve it without at least one player getting shafted.
This is why the admin should get pretty severe consequences. You unfairly affected someone's tournament life, which a portion of their income relies on. Imagine this happening in a major, televised sport. Granted, they probably should've called Miya at the time of the match (or 5-10 minutes before) and asked where he was. They would've known there was a mix up with the times, the admin wouldn't have to get terminated, and none of the players get screwed over. If you need to fill the time slot, you can just ask if any other players that are there early are fine with playing earlier.
I mean, if the admin job is extremely hectic and stressful, it's a bit understandable. But if they have a history of screwing up, then someone else needs to be found to do the job. I have no details of what the job entails, the pay, or the admin's history, so I just have to believe that MLG made a fair and proper decision instead of just hanging out someone to appease the people. Props to Miya and his coach for biting the bullet for everyone.
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On May 06 2013 15:49 maddogmcgee wrote:
he made a bad mistake, but did they really need to kill him ?
You're not killing E-Sports. It kills you.
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On May 06 2013 07:50 BronzeKnee wrote:
Terminating one bad admin isn't going to solve a bad system, because people make mistakes. MLG should be looking into a system where they can correct mistakes before they change the outcome of the bracket or decide games, rather than retroactively punishing people for human error. Be proactive MLG.
Having a bunch of admins running around making calls without anyone to double check them is asking for errors like this. From what I recall, MLG had lots of problems at their live events with admins too.
Terminating one bad admin isn't going to solve a bad system, but it will solve stupid ridiculous mistakes like this. Whether you like it or not, people who ruin their job rather than successfully performing their duty, get fired. I'm sure you have a job irl right? Try doing the exact opposite of what you're supposed to do. If you're a waiter, tell all your customers that the food sucks balls. Tell them that the food is free when really it's not. Or try telling them that you close 2 hours before you actually do.
Your manager will fire you for failing to do your job properly.
This is life my friend.
Now, about MLG having a failure of a system is still truth, but it has nothing to do with an admin getting fired. In fact, some higher ups need to get fired if they keep making terrible decisions. The thing is, they won't be fired because they are higher ups. Nothing we do will make MLG change what they do. They just need to fuck up enough times to finally adjust enough to get it right. Ruining a bunch of people's careers isn't really a big deal to them. So long as they have a decent "end result", they will feel satisfied.
Even after the massive amounts of complaints, they still barred Comm from participating. They don't really care because they feel that they are right even if they are wrong.
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On May 06 2013 16:36 RyLai wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2013 10:24 heyoka wrote:
Pretty shitty situation because I don't think there is a fair way to resolve it without at least one player getting shafted. This is why the admin should get pretty severe consequences. You unfairly affected someone's tournament life, which a portion of their income relies on. Imagine this happening in a major, televised sport. Granted, they probably should've called Miya at the time of the match (or 5-10 minutes before) and asked where he was. They would've known there was a mix up with the times, the admin wouldn't have to get terminated, and none of the players get screwed over. If you need to fill the time slot, you can just ask if any other players that are there early are fine with playing earlier. I mean, if the admin job is extremely hectic and stressful, it's a bit understandable. But if they have a history of screwing up, then someone else needs to be found to do the job. I have no details of what the job entails, the pay, or the admin's history, so I just have to believe that MLG made a fair and proper decision instead of just hanging out someone to appease the people. Props to Miya and his coach for biting the bullet for everyone.
I admin'd for about 3 years. It's not that difficult.....
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This is more like it, actual action rather than just empty apologies. Given the situation I think MLG has done what they can here.
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On May 06 2013 04:37 grs wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2013 02:41 thereggin wrote:On May 05 2013 10:20 Cokefreak wrote:On May 05 2013 10:17 MLGAnnouncements wrote:Today during the MLG operated WCS America Invite-Only Challenger League Qualifier, a situation arose due to an MLG admin error that warrants clarification. Players involved included Miya, Demuslim, Moosegills, and Sasquatch. After having a Bye in Winners Round 1, Miya showed up to his Winners Round 2 Match late, resulting in MLG admins making him forfeit the match and instructing him to play a Losers Round 2 Match against Sasquatch. Miya went on to beat Sasquatch. Shortly after Miya’s victory, MLG was notified that Miya had shown up late to Winners Round 2 due to an MLG admin providing him with an incorrect start time for his match. MLG immediately retracted Miya’s Winners Round 2 forfeit to give him the Winner's Bracket placement he deserved. Miya’s manager advised Miya to accept his Winners Bracket forfeit feeling that any other outcome would be unfair to Demuslim and Moosegills, the other players involved in the subsequent matches. After Miya conceded the Winners Round 2 victory to Moosegills, MLG let all Miya/Demuslim/Moosegills/Sasquatch results stand. The current bracket is available here. Additionally, MLG terminated the admin who originally supplied Miya with the incorrect match information. We apologize to the players and those impacted by the admin errors. MLG terminated the admin terminated Pretty drastic measures. how is that drastic? in the real world.. when you screw up and make such big mistakes. you usually lose your job. In my part of the real world you don't do one mistake (which btw is not a big one, just had big consequences) and get fired. Every court here would punish the employer. What we don't know is, if there is much more other mistakes/problems with his work before. And the term "terminate" might be the correct one for the US; it would not be in many other countries, so maybe that's part of the complaints about the term. No company would publicly brag about "we fired the one responsible" here either. Different cultures I guess.
In the united states you can fire someone without a reason at anytime, unless you have a contract that says otherwise, of course if you can prove in court it was discrimination against something that is protected, like race/religion ect. the employer would lose, otherwise you lose your job if someone above you wants you gone.
I think it's really strange that you say where you come from someone can make a mistake and not legally be allowed to be fired.
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On May 06 2013 20:51 Thehealbus wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2013 04:37 grs wrote:On May 06 2013 02:41 thereggin wrote:On May 05 2013 10:20 Cokefreak wrote:On May 05 2013 10:17 MLGAnnouncements wrote:Today during the MLG operated WCS America Invite-Only Challenger League Qualifier, a situation arose due to an MLG admin error that warrants clarification. Players involved included Miya, Demuslim, Moosegills, and Sasquatch. After having a Bye in Winners Round 1, Miya showed up to his Winners Round 2 Match late, resulting in MLG admins making him forfeit the match and instructing him to play a Losers Round 2 Match against Sasquatch. Miya went on to beat Sasquatch. Shortly after Miya’s victory, MLG was notified that Miya had shown up late to Winners Round 2 due to an MLG admin providing him with an incorrect start time for his match. MLG immediately retracted Miya’s Winners Round 2 forfeit to give him the Winner's Bracket placement he deserved. Miya’s manager advised Miya to accept his Winners Bracket forfeit feeling that any other outcome would be unfair to Demuslim and Moosegills, the other players involved in the subsequent matches. After Miya conceded the Winners Round 2 victory to Moosegills, MLG let all Miya/Demuslim/Moosegills/Sasquatch results stand. The current bracket is available here. Additionally, MLG terminated the admin who originally supplied Miya with the incorrect match information. We apologize to the players and those impacted by the admin errors. MLG terminated the admin terminated Pretty drastic measures. how is that drastic? in the real world.. when you screw up and make such big mistakes. you usually lose your job. In my part of the real world you don't do one mistake (which btw is not a big one, just had big consequences) and get fired. Every court here would punish the employer. What we don't know is, if there is much more other mistakes/problems with his work before. And the term "terminate" might be the correct one for the US; it would not be in many other countries, so maybe that's part of the complaints about the term. No company would publicly brag about "we fired the one responsible" here either. Different cultures I guess. In the united states you can fire someone without a reason at anytime, unless you have a contract that says otherwise, of course if you can prove in court it was discrimination against something that is protected, like race/religion ect. the employer would lose, otherwise you lose your job if someone above you wants you gone. I think it's really strange that you say where you come from someone can make a mistake and not legally be allowed to be fired.
Yes, I know it is different in the US. You actually can't be fired for a single mistake (and I do not mean blowing up a factory) in most of Western Europe.
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On May 06 2013 20:56 grs wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2013 20:51 Thehealbus wrote:On May 06 2013 04:37 grs wrote:On May 06 2013 02:41 thereggin wrote:On May 05 2013 10:20 Cokefreak wrote:On May 05 2013 10:17 MLGAnnouncements wrote:Today during the MLG operated WCS America Invite-Only Challenger League Qualifier, a situation arose due to an MLG admin error that warrants clarification. Players involved included Miya, Demuslim, Moosegills, and Sasquatch. After having a Bye in Winners Round 1, Miya showed up to his Winners Round 2 Match late, resulting in MLG admins making him forfeit the match and instructing him to play a Losers Round 2 Match against Sasquatch. Miya went on to beat Sasquatch. Shortly after Miya’s victory, MLG was notified that Miya had shown up late to Winners Round 2 due to an MLG admin providing him with an incorrect start time for his match. MLG immediately retracted Miya’s Winners Round 2 forfeit to give him the Winner's Bracket placement he deserved. Miya’s manager advised Miya to accept his Winners Bracket forfeit feeling that any other outcome would be unfair to Demuslim and Moosegills, the other players involved in the subsequent matches. After Miya conceded the Winners Round 2 victory to Moosegills, MLG let all Miya/Demuslim/Moosegills/Sasquatch results stand. The current bracket is available here. Additionally, MLG terminated the admin who originally supplied Miya with the incorrect match information. We apologize to the players and those impacted by the admin errors. MLG terminated the admin terminated Pretty drastic measures. how is that drastic? in the real world.. when you screw up and make such big mistakes. you usually lose your job. In my part of the real world you don't do one mistake (which btw is not a big one, just had big consequences) and get fired. Every court here would punish the employer. What we don't know is, if there is much more other mistakes/problems with his work before. And the term "terminate" might be the correct one for the US; it would not be in many other countries, so maybe that's part of the complaints about the term. No company would publicly brag about "we fired the one responsible" here either. Different cultures I guess. In the united states you can fire someone without a reason at anytime, unless you have a contract that says otherwise, of course if you can prove in court it was discrimination against something that is protected, like race/religion ect. the employer would lose, otherwise you lose your job if someone above you wants you gone. I think it's really strange that you say where you come from someone can make a mistake and not legally be allowed to be fired. Yes, I know it is different in the US. You actually can't be fired for a single mistake (and I do not mean blowing up a factory) in most of Western Europe.
It's not entirely clear they were employees, if it were a contract position then you could (effectively fire them) by no longer giving them work... terminating the contract as it were. Most employees contracts here have trial periods where you can drop them with less cause and if this guy was responsible for some of the original qualifier cock ups he'd be sat on a formal warning already. Anyway all seems reasonable to me, this you can't fire someone for being bad at the job mentality bothers me. MLG has enough issues without being forced to keep all its bad staff.
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On May 07 2013 03:34 mostevil wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2013 20:56 grs wrote:On May 06 2013 20:51 Thehealbus wrote:On May 06 2013 04:37 grs wrote:On May 06 2013 02:41 thereggin wrote:On May 05 2013 10:20 Cokefreak wrote:On May 05 2013 10:17 MLGAnnouncements wrote:Today during the MLG operated WCS America Invite-Only Challenger League Qualifier, a situation arose due to an MLG admin error that warrants clarification. Players involved included Miya, Demuslim, Moosegills, and Sasquatch. After having a Bye in Winners Round 1, Miya showed up to his Winners Round 2 Match late, resulting in MLG admins making him forfeit the match and instructing him to play a Losers Round 2 Match against Sasquatch. Miya went on to beat Sasquatch. Shortly after Miya’s victory, MLG was notified that Miya had shown up late to Winners Round 2 due to an MLG admin providing him with an incorrect start time for his match. MLG immediately retracted Miya’s Winners Round 2 forfeit to give him the Winner's Bracket placement he deserved. Miya’s manager advised Miya to accept his Winners Bracket forfeit feeling that any other outcome would be unfair to Demuslim and Moosegills, the other players involved in the subsequent matches. After Miya conceded the Winners Round 2 victory to Moosegills, MLG let all Miya/Demuslim/Moosegills/Sasquatch results stand. The current bracket is available here. Additionally, MLG terminated the admin who originally supplied Miya with the incorrect match information. We apologize to the players and those impacted by the admin errors. MLG terminated the admin terminated Pretty drastic measures. how is that drastic? in the real world.. when you screw up and make such big mistakes. you usually lose your job. In my part of the real world you don't do one mistake (which btw is not a big one, just had big consequences) and get fired. Every court here would punish the employer. What we don't know is, if there is much more other mistakes/problems with his work before. And the term "terminate" might be the correct one for the US; it would not be in many other countries, so maybe that's part of the complaints about the term. No company would publicly brag about "we fired the one responsible" here either. Different cultures I guess. In the united states you can fire someone without a reason at anytime, unless you have a contract that says otherwise, of course if you can prove in court it was discrimination against something that is protected, like race/religion ect. the employer would lose, otherwise you lose your job if someone above you wants you gone. I think it's really strange that you say where you come from someone can make a mistake and not legally be allowed to be fired. Yes, I know it is different in the US. You actually can't be fired for a single mistake (and I do not mean blowing up a factory) in most of Western Europe. It's not entirely clear they were employees, if it were a contract position then you could (effectively fire them) by no longer giving them work... terminating the contract as it were. Most employees contracts here have trial periods where you can drop them with less cause and if this guy was responsible for some of the original qualifier cock ups he'd be sat on a formal warning already. Anyway all seems reasonable to me, this you can't fire someone for being bad at the job mentality bothers me. MLG has enough issues without being forced to keep all its bad staff.
I think we might derail this a bit, but to make it a bit more clear: You can easily fire someone on trial here too (usually first 6 months) and you can for sure fire someone who is *continuosly* bad at his job. What you cannot do here, is fire someone for a mistake and I think that is correct. Only people who do not work at all at their job make no mistakes.
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On May 06 2013 16:08 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2013 15:49 maddogmcgee wrote:
he made a bad mistake, but did they really need to kill him ? LOL Tbh firing him is quite rash. MLG would have to fire everybody else who fucked up during the WCS qualifiers as well to be fair. OR they just accept that they've fucked up and do better next time. Interestingly enough the first person to suggest firing the admin was Moosegills. I do hope neither that nor people on reddit/TL influenced this decision.
I wouldn't be surprised to find out that a lot of the questionable calls from MLG of late came from the same admin. He might even be a really nice guy and that's why they didn't fire him right away. But in the end you can only give people so many chances.
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A: Why are there lots of problems in WCS NA?
B: It is MLG.
A: Oh. It makes sense.
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On May 07 2013 03:37 grs wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 03:34 mostevil wrote:On May 06 2013 20:56 grs wrote:On May 06 2013 20:51 Thehealbus wrote:On May 06 2013 04:37 grs wrote:On May 06 2013 02:41 thereggin wrote:On May 05 2013 10:20 Cokefreak wrote:On May 05 2013 10:17 MLGAnnouncements wrote:Today during the MLG operated WCS America Invite-Only Challenger League Qualifier, a situation arose due to an MLG admin error that warrants clarification. Players involved included Miya, Demuslim, Moosegills, and Sasquatch. After having a Bye in Winners Round 1, Miya showed up to his Winners Round 2 Match late, resulting in MLG admins making him forfeit the match and instructing him to play a Losers Round 2 Match against Sasquatch. Miya went on to beat Sasquatch. Shortly after Miya’s victory, MLG was notified that Miya had shown up late to Winners Round 2 due to an MLG admin providing him with an incorrect start time for his match. MLG immediately retracted Miya’s Winners Round 2 forfeit to give him the Winner's Bracket placement he deserved. Miya’s manager advised Miya to accept his Winners Bracket forfeit feeling that any other outcome would be unfair to Demuslim and Moosegills, the other players involved in the subsequent matches. After Miya conceded the Winners Round 2 victory to Moosegills, MLG let all Miya/Demuslim/Moosegills/Sasquatch results stand. The current bracket is available here. Additionally, MLG terminated the admin who originally supplied Miya with the incorrect match information. We apologize to the players and those impacted by the admin errors. MLG terminated the admin terminated Pretty drastic measures. how is that drastic? in the real world.. when you screw up and make such big mistakes. you usually lose your job. In my part of the real world you don't do one mistake (which btw is not a big one, just had big consequences) and get fired. Every court here would punish the employer. What we don't know is, if there is much more other mistakes/problems with his work before. And the term "terminate" might be the correct one for the US; it would not be in many other countries, so maybe that's part of the complaints about the term. No company would publicly brag about "we fired the one responsible" here either. Different cultures I guess. In the united states you can fire someone without a reason at anytime, unless you have a contract that says otherwise, of course if you can prove in court it was discrimination against something that is protected, like race/religion ect. the employer would lose, otherwise you lose your job if someone above you wants you gone. I think it's really strange that you say where you come from someone can make a mistake and not legally be allowed to be fired. Yes, I know it is different in the US. You actually can't be fired for a single mistake (and I do not mean blowing up a factory) in most of Western Europe. It's not entirely clear they were employees, if it were a contract position then you could (effectively fire them) by no longer giving them work... terminating the contract as it were. Most employees contracts here have trial periods where you can drop them with less cause and if this guy was responsible for some of the original qualifier cock ups he'd be sat on a formal warning already. Anyway all seems reasonable to me, this you can't fire someone for being bad at the job mentality bothers me. MLG has enough issues without being forced to keep all its bad staff. I think we might derail this a bit, but to make it a bit more clear: You can easily fire someone on trial here too (usually first 6 months) and you can for sure fire someone who is *continuosly* bad at his job. What you cannot do here, is fire someone for a mistake and I think that is correct. Only people who do not work at all at their job make no mistakes.
I would like to stress your last sentence. Before discussing whether an employer by law can fire someone for a mistake, I would like to question that he would. Of course it comes down to the question how big and how understandable of a mistake it was, but heck, everyone makes mistakes. Plus, generally speaking, upon firing someone, an employer has to find a replacement, which costs time and money and is a pain in the butt, and in most jobs has to introduce the new guy to his work, which costs more time and money. And then he is guaranteed that the new guy doesn't make mistakes? No. Even if we discount forgiveness, loyalty etc. as nonexistent, an employer should logically only fire someone for a mistake if he is reasonably sure he will continue making above average numbers of mistakes that cost the company more than the finding of a new employee and the risk of employing the wrong one combined.
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MLG how much more incompetent can you be?
Can this WCS America qual get any worse?
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EPT
