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[GSL] 2012 Jan Code S RO32 D1 - Page 149

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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jmbthirteen
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States10734 Posts
January 09 2012 16:56 GMT
#2961
On January 10 2012 01:51 karpo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2012 01:49 Chunhyang wrote:
On January 10 2012 01:42 karpo wrote:
On January 10 2012 01:27 Incomplet wrote:
GOM is a business. Do you guys who are bashing foreign seeds realise how many people bought tickets and/or tuned in JUST to watch Idra/Sen? GOM knows it, hence why they left Idra to be the last person to be introduced at the beginning.


Yeah it's a business but they've also arranged for themselves to be the most serious league with the toughest competition. They lose some of that when they seed players based on popularity.


Totally worth the money and exposure. And I'd wager that inviting foreigners is a good stepping stone to giving the best of them experience, laying the groundwork for one of them to go far and maybe even win

And didn't you have fun watching Sen, even though he lost? Isn't it nice to see how he did? He wasn't destroyed, not by a long shot. He took his lumps very well.


I'd rather see someone play that worked for their spot instead of being handed it based on popularity and country of origin.

You might, but more people are interested in foreigners vs koreans. I bet when idra plays it will be the most watvhed night of gsl not including finals.
www.superbeerbrothers.com
karpo
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden1998 Posts
January 09 2012 16:59 GMT
#2962
On January 10 2012 01:56 jmbthirteen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2012 01:51 karpo wrote:
On January 10 2012 01:49 Chunhyang wrote:
On January 10 2012 01:42 karpo wrote:
On January 10 2012 01:27 Incomplet wrote:
GOM is a business. Do you guys who are bashing foreign seeds realise how many people bought tickets and/or tuned in JUST to watch Idra/Sen? GOM knows it, hence why they left Idra to be the last person to be introduced at the beginning.


Yeah it's a business but they've also arranged for themselves to be the most serious league with the toughest competition. They lose some of that when they seed players based on popularity.


Totally worth the money and exposure. And I'd wager that inviting foreigners is a good stepping stone to giving the best of them experience, laying the groundwork for one of them to go far and maybe even win

And didn't you have fun watching Sen, even though he lost? Isn't it nice to see how he did? He wasn't destroyed, not by a long shot. He took his lumps very well.


I'd rather see someone play that worked for their spot instead of being handed it based on popularity and country of origin.

You might, but more people are interested in foreigners vs koreans. I bet when idra plays it will be the most watvhed night of gsl not including finals.


Yeah sure you're probably right. I'm just saying that they undermine the whole "best of the best league" when they seed unproven players directly into code S. As a business decision it's understandable.
SovietHammer
Profile Joined March 2011
United States166 Posts
January 09 2012 17:12 GMT
#2963
On January 10 2012 01:12 Seiferz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2012 01:03 sitromit wrote:
This is why seeds are bad. Losira is in Code A, while Sen gets 4-0'ed in Code S...


to be fair, he had 2 very close games against boxer and its not like losira wouldn't have gotten 0-4'd.


I can say with 100% confidence that losria would not have gotten 0-4'd. He could have taken games off anyone in the group and probably beaten boxer.
justsayinbro
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
307 Posts
January 09 2012 17:18 GMT
#2964
lets be real here, no one else expected sen to have tough time against gsl terrans?

hoping for idra to advance now =_=
Vardant
Profile Joined November 2010
Czech Republic620 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-09 17:22:33
January 09 2012 17:18 GMT
#2965
On January 10 2012 01:59 karpo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2012 01:56 jmbthirteen wrote:
On January 10 2012 01:51 karpo wrote:
On January 10 2012 01:49 Chunhyang wrote:
On January 10 2012 01:42 karpo wrote:
On January 10 2012 01:27 Incomplet wrote:
GOM is a business. Do you guys who are bashing foreign seeds realise how many people bought tickets and/or tuned in JUST to watch Idra/Sen? GOM knows it, hence why they left Idra to be the last person to be introduced at the beginning.


Yeah it's a business but they've also arranged for themselves to be the most serious league with the toughest competition. They lose some of that when they seed players based on popularity.


Totally worth the money and exposure. And I'd wager that inviting foreigners is a good stepping stone to giving the best of them experience, laying the groundwork for one of them to go far and maybe even win

And didn't you have fun watching Sen, even though he lost? Isn't it nice to see how he did? He wasn't destroyed, not by a long shot. He took his lumps very well.


I'd rather see someone play that worked for their spot instead of being handed it based on popularity and country of origin.

You might, but more people are interested in foreigners vs koreans. I bet when idra plays it will be the most watvhed night of gsl not including finals.


Yeah sure you're probably right. I'm just saying that they undermine the whole "best of the best league" when they seed unproven players directly into code S.

Is it really true though?

It's not like they win something, they can hang on at best or go straight out. They take up a spot for a while, but that definitely doesn't stop the best from getting to Code S and win.

Seeding is understandable, too many good tournaments outside of Korea, pretty much guarantees, that almost nobody is gonna fly there, just to get a shot at Code A.

It will probably stop sooner or later anyway, either because the rest of the world won't be able to keep up or the good ones will have to go to Korea to stay competitive.
Yaki
Profile Joined April 2011
France4234 Posts
January 09 2012 17:32 GMT
#2966
too bad for boxer he came so close
MC ■ MarineKing ■ LosirA ■ To someone who has lost after trying his best, no words from the winner can console him.
mrtomjones
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada4020 Posts
January 09 2012 17:45 GMT
#2967
On January 10 2012 02:12 SovietHammer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2012 01:12 Seiferz wrote:
On January 10 2012 01:03 sitromit wrote:
This is why seeds are bad. Losira is in Code A, while Sen gets 4-0'ed in Code S...


to be fair, he had 2 very close games against boxer and its not like losira wouldn't have gotten 0-4'd.


I can say with 100% confidence that losria would not have gotten 0-4'd. He could have taken games off anyone in the group and probably beaten boxer.

except losira cant stop a bunker rush. Aka 0 wins
KimJongChill
Profile Joined January 2011
United States6429 Posts
January 09 2012 17:46 GMT
#2968
It's about what I expected.
MMA: U realise MMA: Most of my army EgIdra: fuck off MMA: Killed my orbital MMA: LOL MMA: just saying MMA: u werent loss
OGzan
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States289 Posts
January 09 2012 17:49 GMT
#2969
I would have rather seen Naniwa play than Sen
(Zan) :: http://www.twitch.tv/byzantiumsc :: Terran Player currently teamless ::
Skwid1g
Profile Joined April 2011
United States953 Posts
January 09 2012 17:51 GMT
#2970
On January 10 2012 01:59 karpo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2012 01:56 jmbthirteen wrote:
On January 10 2012 01:51 karpo wrote:
On January 10 2012 01:49 Chunhyang wrote:
On January 10 2012 01:42 karpo wrote:
On January 10 2012 01:27 Incomplet wrote:
GOM is a business. Do you guys who are bashing foreign seeds realise how many people bought tickets and/or tuned in JUST to watch Idra/Sen? GOM knows it, hence why they left Idra to be the last person to be introduced at the beginning.


Yeah it's a business but they've also arranged for themselves to be the most serious league with the toughest competition. They lose some of that when they seed players based on popularity.


Totally worth the money and exposure. And I'd wager that inviting foreigners is a good stepping stone to giving the best of them experience, laying the groundwork for one of them to go far and maybe even win

And didn't you have fun watching Sen, even though he lost? Isn't it nice to see how he did? He wasn't destroyed, not by a long shot. He took his lumps very well.


I'd rather see someone play that worked for their spot instead of being handed it based on popularity and country of origin.

You might, but more people are interested in foreigners vs koreans. I bet when idra plays it will be the most watvhed night of gsl not including finals.


Yeah sure you're probably right. I'm just saying that they undermine the whole "best of the best league" when they seed unproven players directly into code S. As a business decision it's understandable.


Not really, Sen and Idra have beaten Code S players in the past, so they definitely *could* compete with a lot of the players in Code S. Asking a top tier player to forgo other tournaments, move to a country that uses a language they don't speak, etc. just so they can attempt to QUALIFY for the lowest league is ridiculous and would make it basically impossible for most foreigners (read: the good ones) to compete in the GSL.

Seeds are fine as a one time thing (as in they don't get re-seeded after getting smashed) as they get a chance to either prove they deserve the seed or bomb out quickly if they don't deserve it.
NaDa/Fantasy/Zero/Soulkey pls
UmiNotsuki
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States633 Posts
January 09 2012 17:53 GMT
#2971
Sen, my favorite, nooooo!

I can't say I'm surprised but I am disappointed.

At least now I can sleep rather than staying up to watch all of Sen's games
UmiNotsuki.111 (NA), UNTReborn.932 (EU), UmiNotsuki (iCCup) -- You see that text I wrote above this? I'll betcha $5 that you disagree :D
CosmicSpiral
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States15275 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-09 17:55:51
January 09 2012 17:55 GMT
#2972
On January 10 2012 02:51 Skwid1g wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2012 01:59 karpo wrote:
On January 10 2012 01:56 jmbthirteen wrote:
On January 10 2012 01:51 karpo wrote:
On January 10 2012 01:49 Chunhyang wrote:
On January 10 2012 01:42 karpo wrote:
On January 10 2012 01:27 Incomplet wrote:
GOM is a business. Do you guys who are bashing foreign seeds realise how many people bought tickets and/or tuned in JUST to watch Idra/Sen? GOM knows it, hence why they left Idra to be the last person to be introduced at the beginning.


Yeah it's a business but they've also arranged for themselves to be the most serious league with the toughest competition. They lose some of that when they seed players based on popularity.


Totally worth the money and exposure. And I'd wager that inviting foreigners is a good stepping stone to giving the best of them experience, laying the groundwork for one of them to go far and maybe even win

And didn't you have fun watching Sen, even though he lost? Isn't it nice to see how he did? He wasn't destroyed, not by a long shot. He took his lumps very well.


I'd rather see someone play that worked for their spot instead of being handed it based on popularity and country of origin.

You might, but more people are interested in foreigners vs koreans. I bet when idra plays it will be the most watvhed night of gsl not including finals.


Yeah sure you're probably right. I'm just saying that they undermine the whole "best of the best league" when they seed unproven players directly into code S. As a business decision it's understandable.


Not really, Sen and Idra have beaten Code S players in the past, so they definitely *could* compete with a lot of the players in Code S. Asking a top tier player to forgo other tournaments, move to a country that uses a language they don't speak, etc. just so they can attempt to QUALIFY for the lowest league is ridiculous and would make it basically impossible for most foreigners (read: the good ones) to compete in the GSL.

Seeds are fine as a one time thing (as in they don't get re-seeded after getting smashed) as they get a chance to either prove they deserve the seed or bomb out quickly if they don't deserve it.


In the past GSL was a lot worse in terms of player quality so your argument is invalid. Everyone has gotten a lot better, even the mainstays of Code S.

Sen has never made it into Code S.
WriterWovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man schweigen.
blamekilly
Profile Joined April 2011
466 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-09 17:58:50
January 09 2012 17:57 GMT
#2973
I freakin love Ganzi. I think some people dislike him because he cheeses a lot or tries really strange builds that either stomps his opponents or utterly fails. But the thing is that he can win with cheese, with standard games, or macro games. He's not a one trick pony. He's pretty much unpredictable.
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain17980 Posts
January 09 2012 18:05 GMT
#2974
On January 10 2012 02:55 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2012 02:51 Skwid1g wrote:
On January 10 2012 01:59 karpo wrote:
On January 10 2012 01:56 jmbthirteen wrote:
On January 10 2012 01:51 karpo wrote:
On January 10 2012 01:49 Chunhyang wrote:
On January 10 2012 01:42 karpo wrote:
On January 10 2012 01:27 Incomplet wrote:
GOM is a business. Do you guys who are bashing foreign seeds realise how many people bought tickets and/or tuned in JUST to watch Idra/Sen? GOM knows it, hence why they left Idra to be the last person to be introduced at the beginning.


Yeah it's a business but they've also arranged for themselves to be the most serious league with the toughest competition. They lose some of that when they seed players based on popularity.


Totally worth the money and exposure. And I'd wager that inviting foreigners is a good stepping stone to giving the best of them experience, laying the groundwork for one of them to go far and maybe even win

And didn't you have fun watching Sen, even though he lost? Isn't it nice to see how he did? He wasn't destroyed, not by a long shot. He took his lumps very well.


I'd rather see someone play that worked for their spot instead of being handed it based on popularity and country of origin.

You might, but more people are interested in foreigners vs koreans. I bet when idra plays it will be the most watvhed night of gsl not including finals.


Yeah sure you're probably right. I'm just saying that they undermine the whole "best of the best league" when they seed unproven players directly into code S. As a business decision it's understandable.


Not really, Sen and Idra have beaten Code S players in the past, so they definitely *could* compete with a lot of the players in Code S. Asking a top tier player to forgo other tournaments, move to a country that uses a language they don't speak, etc. just so they can attempt to QUALIFY for the lowest league is ridiculous and would make it basically impossible for most foreigners (read: the good ones) to compete in the GSL.

Seeds are fine as a one time thing (as in they don't get re-seeded after getting smashed) as they get a chance to either prove they deserve the seed or bomb out quickly if they don't deserve it.


In the past GSL was a lot worse in terms of player quality so your argument is invalid. Everyone has gotten a lot better, even the mainstays of Code S.

Sen has never made it into Code S.


Well, you'd presume Sen has also gotten better in the meantime, but even so, it doesn't really matter. At worst this gives the 3 other players in groups with a foreigner seed an easier time of advancing to the Ro16 AND the games are atrociously one-sided (and boring). Sen showed some flair in his games and, while he got 2-0'd twice he didn't look hopeless. If Sen bombs out of Code A too, that's the end of him in GSL (for at least a while), with next season a different foreigner to get his chance. Maybe Naniwa will get his spot after all... or Stephano, Nerchio, WhiteRa, Thorzain, Naama or some other foreigner who has been making a splash. At worst many foreigners will buy subscriptions just to watch their favourite player compete in the most prestigious league in the world.

And maybe, just maybe, one of those seeded foreigners will surprise everybody and make a deep run into Code S! Nobody was expecting Jinro to do it in 2010 and nobody really credited HuK with any staying power either. Who's to say some other foreigner can't take the fight to Korea too?
Grampz
Profile Joined November 2010
United States2147 Posts
January 09 2012 18:06 GMT
#2975
so is boxer back in code a? =(
Asha
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom38212 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-09 18:15:12
January 09 2012 18:07 GMT
#2976
On January 10 2012 03:06 Grampz wrote:
so is boxer back in code a? =(


sort of, he's technically in Code A but he has at least 2 shots to make it back to Code S for next season (he can make it back by winning 2 bo3's in Code A or by getting through the up & down groups again).
Seeker *
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
Where dat snitch at?37023 Posts
January 09 2012 18:12 GMT
#2977
LIVE REPORTS BY FISHGLE ARE NOW UP!!!

PLEASE CHECK THEM OUT GUYS!!!
ModeratorPeople ask me, "Seeker, what are you seeking?" My answer? "Sleep, damn it! Always sleep!"
TL+ Member
foxmulder_ms
Profile Joined February 2011
United States140 Posts
January 09 2012 18:13 GMT
#2978
Boxer ... So close. Damn. Also, the ties was hilarious :D In intro ganzi and idra looked bad asses. Ganzi looked really strong last night. Slayers' Terrans are so f good.
TheDougler
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada8304 Posts
January 09 2012 18:19 GMT
#2979
On January 10 2012 02:18 justsayinbro wrote:

hoping for idra to advance now =_=


=_= indeed, that's an uphill battle for sure.
I root for Euro Zergs, NA Protoss* and Korean Terrans. (Any North American who has beat a Korean Pro as Protoss counts as NA Toss)
CosmicSpiral
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States15275 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-09 18:49:08
January 09 2012 18:20 GMT
#2980
On January 10 2012 03:05 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2012 02:55 CosmicSpiral wrote:
On January 10 2012 02:51 Skwid1g wrote:
On January 10 2012 01:59 karpo wrote:
On January 10 2012 01:56 jmbthirteen wrote:
On January 10 2012 01:51 karpo wrote:
On January 10 2012 01:49 Chunhyang wrote:
On January 10 2012 01:42 karpo wrote:
On January 10 2012 01:27 Incomplet wrote:
GOM is a business. Do you guys who are bashing foreign seeds realise how many people bought tickets and/or tuned in JUST to watch Idra/Sen? GOM knows it, hence why they left Idra to be the last person to be introduced at the beginning.


Yeah it's a business but they've also arranged for themselves to be the most serious league with the toughest competition. They lose some of that when they seed players based on popularity.


Totally worth the money and exposure. And I'd wager that inviting foreigners is a good stepping stone to giving the best of them experience, laying the groundwork for one of them to go far and maybe even win

And didn't you have fun watching Sen, even though he lost? Isn't it nice to see how he did? He wasn't destroyed, not by a long shot. He took his lumps very well.


I'd rather see someone play that worked for their spot instead of being handed it based on popularity and country of origin.

You might, but more people are interested in foreigners vs koreans. I bet when idra plays it will be the most watvhed night of gsl not including finals.


Yeah sure you're probably right. I'm just saying that they undermine the whole "best of the best league" when they seed unproven players directly into code S. As a business decision it's understandable.


Not really, Sen and Idra have beaten Code S players in the past, so they definitely *could* compete with a lot of the players in Code S. Asking a top tier player to forgo other tournaments, move to a country that uses a language they don't speak, etc. just so they can attempt to QUALIFY for the lowest league is ridiculous and would make it basically impossible for most foreigners (read: the good ones) to compete in the GSL.

Seeds are fine as a one time thing (as in they don't get re-seeded after getting smashed) as they get a chance to either prove they deserve the seed or bomb out quickly if they don't deserve it.


In the past GSL was a lot worse in terms of player quality so your argument is invalid. Everyone has gotten a lot better, even the mainstays of Code S.

Sen has never made it into Code S.


Well, you'd presume Sen has also gotten better in the meantime, but even so, it doesn't really matter. At worst this gives the 3 other players in groups with a foreigner seed an easier time of advancing to the Ro16 AND the games are atrociously one-sided (and boring). Sen showed some flair in his games and, while he got 2-0'd twice he didn't look hopeless. If Sen bombs out of Code A too, that's the end of him in GSL (for at least a while), with next season a different foreigner to get his chance. Maybe Naniwa will get his spot after all... or Stephano, Nerchio, WhiteRa, Thorzain, Naama or some other foreigner who has been making a splash. At worst many foreigners will buy subscriptions just to watch their favourite player compete in the most prestigious league in the world.

And maybe, just maybe, one of those seeded foreigners will surprise everybody and make a deep run into Code S! Nobody was expecting Jinro to do it in 2010 and nobody really credited HuK with any staying power either. Who's to say some other foreigner can't take the fight to Korea too?


Actually you have to prove Sen gotten better in the meantime.

It annoys me because there are a lot of unknown Korean players who have to go through both Code A qualifiers and Code A to reach Code S, players who would undoubtedly be top-tier if they played in foreigner tournaments. Remember that Code B terran who got second at HSCIV, or that Code B terran who took 3rd place at MLG Orlando from the Open Bracket? How are they any less deserving than Sen or Idra?

I understand that it is good business sense, but it destroys the reputation of Code S as a position you need to earn (hence the constant bitching about Ensnare, Virus, Inca, and every mediocre Korean who managed to retain their spots before the bracket changes) when you are giving out invites based on popularity.
WriterWovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man schweigen.
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