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On October 15 2011 05:08 Carmac wrote:
My statement for the situation with TT1 and DRG.
A referee has made a terrible mistake. We cannot undo that - an undeserving player is in a situation which should not have happened.
Gatored got wrongly seeded into the tournament bracket as the #1 seed instead of DRG who received the #2 player's seed in the bracket. As a result, the two players were placed in the wrong part of the bracket and TT1 played a player he was not supposed to. Unfortunately the error was discovered during the match and not before. The result cannot stand.
I deeply regret that such a mistake happened at such a time, but we cannot undo it. We canceled the match and fixed the bracket layout. Nothing else could be done.
All I can do right now on my behalf and on behalf of the referee is apologise to the players involved in the match, their teams and the fans that followed the match. This should not have happened and I will do everything for this to never happen again.
I regret this has happened and I apologise.
Michał "Carmac" Blicharz
Stuff happens, it was unfortunate, but the way you guys handled it was great. Much respect and <3 to you, IEM.
PS. when is the next match then? according to schedule it is 1hr from now, but will it be moved up?
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I feel really sorry for TT1, IEM and specially the referee that did the misstake.
Kudos for Carmac handeling the situation the right way and also stepping up on stream and telling it.
Maybe this will bring a new coinflipp tourny.... 
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On October 15 2011 05:10 mitthrawn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 05:06 Kazang wrote:On October 15 2011 04:59 mitthrawn wrote:On October 15 2011 04:55 Xx26Vanek26xX wrote:On October 15 2011 04:45 Xeris wrote:On October 15 2011 04:44 mcc wrote:On October 15 2011 04:41 Xeris wrote:
Dude that's so fucked up... how can they cancel the result of a game that was played?
They should apologize to DRG for messing up and having him play the wrong opponent, not cancel the result of a game already played Why ? Is it more unfair then DRG having to play harder opponent when he ended up 1st in the group ? Sticking to system is better as one way or another you are being unfair to someone, so at least it is according to rules. Doesnt matter. The game was already played... IEM should apologize to DRG for fucking up, not cancel a legitimate game now they just apologize to TT1 for fucking up isn't doing the same thing and getting it right? what the hell is wrong with you guys? you just dont do that AFTER an official match has been played. Very bad move by IEM. Apparently IPL raised the bar of being professional way too high last week. IEM just bombed esports back into the stone age. TT1 essentially got a free win because of an error, and Top who legitimately owned his group would have had to play DRG. Top having to play DRG in the Ro8 would have been a joke. They are correcting their error, if they don't all the results are void because they are not legitimate. If you were Top or DRG who legitimately won their groups would you be happy that you got openly screwed? TT1 is not getting screwed, he has to play who he has to play according to the rules and how he played in the group. He's just not getting a free advantage from an error. Disappointing for him but taking advantage of the error would be both unsporting and call any results from the tournament into question. Transfer that into real sports like NFL, NBA or Champions League in Football. And tell me they would do the same thing IEM just did. :facepalm:
They absolutely would. In an extreme case that a mistake happens, the established organizations would enforce the written rules of the competition and not deviate an inch.
You can't honestly believe they would do anything different. A mistake hurts the organization, but deviating from competition rules ON PURPOSE destroys their credibility in the long run (possibly permanently).
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On October 15 2011 05:10 mitthrawn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 05:06 Kazang wrote:On October 15 2011 04:59 mitthrawn wrote:On October 15 2011 04:55 Xx26Vanek26xX wrote:On October 15 2011 04:45 Xeris wrote:On October 15 2011 04:44 mcc wrote:On October 15 2011 04:41 Xeris wrote:
Dude that's so fucked up... how can they cancel the result of a game that was played?
They should apologize to DRG for messing up and having him play the wrong opponent, not cancel the result of a game already played Why ? Is it more unfair then DRG having to play harder opponent when he ended up 1st in the group ? Sticking to system is better as one way or another you are being unfair to someone, so at least it is according to rules. Doesnt matter. The game was already played... IEM should apologize to DRG for fucking up, not cancel a legitimate game now they just apologize to TT1 for fucking up isn't doing the same thing and getting it right? what the hell is wrong with you guys? you just dont do that AFTER an official match has been played. Very bad move by IEM. Apparently IPL raised the bar of being professional way too high last week. IEM just bombed esports back into the stone age. TT1 essentially got a free win because of an error, and Top who legitimately owned his group would have had to play DRG. Top having to play DRG in the Ro8 would have been a joke. They are correcting their error, if they don't all the results are void because they are not legitimate. If you were Top or DRG who legitimately won their groups would you be happy that you got openly screwed? TT1 is not getting screwed, he has to play who he has to play according to the rules and how he played in the group. He's just not getting a free advantage from an error. Disappointing for him but taking advantage of the error would be both unsporting and call any results from the tournament into question. Transfer that into real sports like NFL, NBA or Champions League in Football. And tell me they would do the same thing IEM just did. :facepalm:
that's how I feel about it too...
if this ever happened in real sports, the tournament definitly will get sued all over, even if the mistake is "fixed"
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On October 15 2011 05:11 setzer wrote:
IEM really needs to host their events at venues exclusive to gaming. The crowds here compared to every other SC2 live event outside of Korea have just been embarrassing.
To be fair, trying this in New York is probably financially not viable for IEM.
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On October 15 2011 05:08 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 05:01 biamila wrote:On October 15 2011 04:53 Talin wrote:On October 15 2011 04:47 biamila wrote:On October 15 2011 04:42 Talin wrote:On October 15 2011 04:41 biamila wrote:
Man... I'm not a fan of TT1, but that's fucking rough.
Honestly, they played the game out already. Seeding error, sure, that sucks. But man up and accept YOUR error. Don't fuck the players over for it.
Yargh. Stupid IEM, now I HAVE to cheer for TT1, and I don't want to do that!!! They did accept their error though, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have to be fixed. It would've been rough on DRG that way. This way all players get the chance to play the right matchups. Yea, I understand that and I get their point of view. At the same time, TT1 is now at a disadvantage. He'll have had to win more games than anyone else to win the tournament. How? He's going to have to win the exact same number of games. If Gatored won this matchup, it would still not count, so he didn't have to win this. Yes, TT1 is obviously fucked by this decision, but it was the most fair resolution - no player is eliminated, everyone still gets to play the correct matchups. It's tough psychologically after you've just won a match, but the fact is that NO ONE is "punished" in terms of format and results. On the other hand, if they stuck to this, then players WOULD get directly punished by the tournament organization (DRG and TOP). There is only one fair way to resolve this, and they've had the guts to pick it. The easiest thing to do for IEM was to just go on with the tournament. Instead, they've picked the correct way to handle the situation even if it will get them a ton more hate. Mistakes suck, but we should respect IEM for making a tough but correct decision. I get your point, and I see it as well, but I just don't agree. I feel this is the type of mistake that the onus should fall on the tournament organizer for. THEY fucked up the seeding. TT1 accepted the hand dealt to him and won his series nicely. Is it an ideal situation? Of course not, but now TT1 is being forced to completely reset his psychological frame. I'd be ok with it if they'd noticed a game in, or when (hypothetically) it had ended up 1-1, or 2-1. But at a 3-0 sweep, it just seems like bullshit to me. And I understand that DRG and TOP are getting fucked by the brackets being dealt incorrectly as well. However, I feel TT1 is getting MORE screwed than them in this situation. Shitty place to be, so be it. <3 Go TT1? Feels weird typing that >.< I don't want to push this discussion since we can clearly agree to disagree and I'm fine with that as you have a reasonable attitude but I have to say this once again: The blame and consequences do fall on the tournament organizer. They still suffer all the consequences. They didn't "shift" any of the consequences on TT1. TT1 replaying the series won't make the organizers less responsible or make it hurt them less - in fact this decision hurts them more, as it's obviously very controversial. They accept the blame, consequences, and everything. The only question that remains is: 1. Do you correct the mistake in the tournament format and revert to the brackets that are fair for everyone, including TT1 (as he'll be playing the opponent he earned via his group rank). 2. Do you continue the tournament instead and simply ignore the mistake, making players play the wrong matchups possibly until the finals itself. In life, as in all things, when you see a mistake - you fix it. As painful as it sometimes is, it's the right thing to do IMO. Besides, what would happen to TT1 if they went along with this? Everyone would talk about how he only had a good run because IEM fucked up for months. Again, sorry for dragging this on, but I think I was a bit clearer this time.
That's part of why I like TL. Reasonable discussion <3
The thing is... part of me agrees with you. The cold, analytical part of my brain agrees. This is the reasonable way to deal with it, that affects the fewest people.
BUT... the other part of me. The competitive, passionate part that played sports and games growing up feels this is rough.
I understand they're not the exact same, but if I was told after a game of football that "whoops, it doesn't count. You were mis-seeded. Regame!" I'd be absolutely gutted. It just seems rough that TT1 will be forced to play additional games. I get that the games "didn't count" and are thus wiped clean, and that competitive SC2 isn't the same as other sports as far as fatigue. However, FOR TT1 and Gatored, those WERE pro games. They put the same amount of focus and concentration into them as they would into any other competitive, tournament elimination game.
For that reason, I feel it's better to live with the seeding error and just take the results. At the same time, I see why some people think the other way.
I guess it comes down to which part of the brain you choose to listen to.
Cheers!
Onward for more games!
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On October 15 2011 05:11 Chocolate wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 05:10 mitthrawn wrote:On October 15 2011 05:06 Kazang wrote:On October 15 2011 04:59 mitthrawn wrote:On October 15 2011 04:55 Xx26Vanek26xX wrote:On October 15 2011 04:45 Xeris wrote:On October 15 2011 04:44 mcc wrote:On October 15 2011 04:41 Xeris wrote:
Dude that's so fucked up... how can they cancel the result of a game that was played?
They should apologize to DRG for messing up and having him play the wrong opponent, not cancel the result of a game already played Why ? Is it more unfair then DRG having to play harder opponent when he ended up 1st in the group ? Sticking to system is better as one way or another you are being unfair to someone, so at least it is according to rules. Doesnt matter. The game was already played... IEM should apologize to DRG for fucking up, not cancel a legitimate game now they just apologize to TT1 for fucking up isn't doing the same thing and getting it right? what the hell is wrong with you guys? you just dont do that AFTER an official match has been played. Very bad move by IEM. Apparently IPL raised the bar of being professional way too high last week. IEM just bombed esports back into the stone age. TT1 essentially got a free win because of an error, and Top who legitimately owned his group would have had to play DRG. Top having to play DRG in the Ro8 would have been a joke. They are correcting their error, if they don't all the results are void because they are not legitimate. If you were Top or DRG who legitimately won their groups would you be happy that you got openly screwed? TT1 is not getting screwed, he has to play who he has to play according to the rules and how he played in the group. He's just not getting a free advantage from an error. Disappointing for him but taking advantage of the error would be both unsporting and call any results from the tournament into question. Transfer that into real sports like NFL, NBA or Champions League in Football. And tell me they would do the same thing IEM just did. :facepalm: Those games also take much longer and the matches are planned long beforehand.
Yet it wouldn't make the slightest difference. Still the same situation.
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This Phil commercial just went to whole new levels.
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On October 15 2011 05:13 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 05:10 mitthrawn wrote:On October 15 2011 05:06 Kazang wrote:On October 15 2011 04:59 mitthrawn wrote:On October 15 2011 04:55 Xx26Vanek26xX wrote:On October 15 2011 04:45 Xeris wrote:On October 15 2011 04:44 mcc wrote:On October 15 2011 04:41 Xeris wrote:
Dude that's so fucked up... how can they cancel the result of a game that was played?
They should apologize to DRG for messing up and having him play the wrong opponent, not cancel the result of a game already played Why ? Is it more unfair then DRG having to play harder opponent when he ended up 1st in the group ? Sticking to system is better as one way or another you are being unfair to someone, so at least it is according to rules. Doesnt matter. The game was already played... IEM should apologize to DRG for fucking up, not cancel a legitimate game now they just apologize to TT1 for fucking up isn't doing the same thing and getting it right? what the hell is wrong with you guys? you just dont do that AFTER an official match has been played. Very bad move by IEM. Apparently IPL raised the bar of being professional way too high last week. IEM just bombed esports back into the stone age. TT1 essentially got a free win because of an error, and Top who legitimately owned his group would have had to play DRG. Top having to play DRG in the Ro8 would have been a joke. They are correcting their error, if they don't all the results are void because they are not legitimate. If you were Top or DRG who legitimately won their groups would you be happy that you got openly screwed? TT1 is not getting screwed, he has to play who he has to play according to the rules and how he played in the group. He's just not getting a free advantage from an error. Disappointing for him but taking advantage of the error would be both unsporting and call any results from the tournament into question. Transfer that into real sports like NFL, NBA or Champions League in Football. And tell me they would do the same thing IEM just did. :facepalm: that's how I feel about it too... if this ever happened in real sports, the tournament definitly will get sued all over
What the fuck? No it wouldn't. If a legitimate mistake happened that screwed up the seeding of a major tournament i'm 100% sure the tournament organizers would follow their own rules (whatever they may be). If the rules stated that they would have to replay games in a mistake like this, then they would replay games and no one would get sued. sometimes my head hurts when i read shit like this.
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On October 15 2011 04:58 pred470r wrote:
I suppose that no matter happens from now on, this tourney will be remembered for having a ref that fucked up the quarter-finals.
And the tournament directors correcting the mistake in a very transparent and professional way.
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Regarding people claiming professional sports wouldn't do this... I know the NBA has replayed the last minute or so of several games over the last few years when later on they found it a mistake had been made (i remember one game Shaq was supposed to have fouled out or something but the ref missed it), so they rescheduled the last -1- minute of that game.
*edit* ok, so apparently it has only happened once since 1982, but here is the link:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3192421
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hello could anyone explain what happened? i dont understand it sorry
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Comparisons to NFL/MLB etc. are pointless. This would never happen in those leagues. No point of even considering the hypothetical.
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Fruitdealer is baller using Phone camera as if it's mirror 
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Last bo5 today? So we aint gonna see tt1 vs drg.... well. Hope for a nice series FD vs SangHo at least.
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On October 15 2011 05:10 mitthrawn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 05:06 Kazang wrote:On October 15 2011 04:59 mitthrawn wrote:On October 15 2011 04:55 Xx26Vanek26xX wrote:On October 15 2011 04:45 Xeris wrote:On October 15 2011 04:44 mcc wrote:On October 15 2011 04:41 Xeris wrote:
Dude that's so fucked up... how can they cancel the result of a game that was played?
They should apologize to DRG for messing up and having him play the wrong opponent, not cancel the result of a game already played Why ? Is it more unfair then DRG having to play harder opponent when he ended up 1st in the group ? Sticking to system is better as one way or another you are being unfair to someone, so at least it is according to rules. Doesnt matter. The game was already played... IEM should apologize to DRG for fucking up, not cancel a legitimate game now they just apologize to TT1 for fucking up isn't doing the same thing and getting it right? what the hell is wrong with you guys? you just dont do that AFTER an official match has been played. Very bad move by IEM. Apparently IPL raised the bar of being professional way too high last week. IEM just bombed esports back into the stone age. TT1 essentially got a free win because of an error, and Top who legitimately owned his group would have had to play DRG. Top having to play DRG in the Ro8 would have been a joke. They are correcting their error, if they don't all the results are void because they are not legitimate. If you were Top or DRG who legitimately won their groups would you be happy that you got openly screwed? TT1 is not getting screwed, he has to play who he has to play according to the rules and how he played in the group. He's just not getting a free advantage from an error. Disappointing for him but taking advantage of the error would be both unsporting and call any results from the tournament into question. Transfer that into real sports like NFL, NBA or Champions League in Football. And tell me they would do the same thing IEM just did. :facepalm:
Actually they would. All of the leagues have have a protest rule in place where games have to be replayed (see: Brett, George).
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On October 15 2011 05:16 MorroW wrote:
hello could anyone explain what happened? i dont understand it sorry
tt1 won 3:0 over gatored
unfortunately an iem refree made a mistake so the match doesnt count and tt1 has to play against drg.
very unfortunate, but hell.. mistakes happen and Iem did the best they could
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EPT
