|
Stop being so silly over women in esports. Rude comments will be banned for! (from page 78). Be sure to keep the topic excellent, please! |
wow Sen vs MC series was the best so far imo
|
On July 10 2011 13:17 Loki57 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 13:10 Ocedic wrote:On July 10 2011 13:06 Serpico wrote:On July 10 2011 13:04 InvalidID wrote:On July 10 2011 13:00 eYeball wrote:On July 10 2011 12:58 KimJongChill wrote:
Sen is clearly the best foreigner, and would probably be in the top 5 zergs in Korea as well. I really only see Nestea better than him, and maybe Losira and DRG. Wow, I'm a Sen fan now @_@"" I can see that. But Losira, DRG and Nestea are all better than sen. Clearly the best foreigner? Maybe the best foreign Zerg, but Huk has clearly established himself as the top foreigner at the moment. No, huk isn't the best foreigner at all. I'd take dimaga/throzain/sen/naniwa/idra before huk because they've been much more consistent. Idra consistent? Is that a joke? Huk won Dreamhack, HSC3 and is doing fantastic in Code S. Yeah, what a sloppy, inconsistent player. I'm going to try to stay away from fanboy-wars as possible, but winning the first MLG and then doing literally nothing until HSC3 and Dreamhack isn't particularly consistent. IdrA was in code S his entire time in Korea including during the open tournaments which you could argue were much more volatile and continued to place high/win events like MLG, IPL, etc. To say HuK has been more consistent is plain silly.
So your point is IdrA is consistent...ly mediocore?
|
On July 10 2011 13:15 Crisco wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 13:12 Sc2Null wrote:On July 10 2011 13:10 Crisco wrote:On July 10 2011 13:07 Utinni wrote:
Why do people say Huk is Korean. He is a foreigner who trains with Koreans... What is not to understand. If you are in the same environment you will adapt. He trains as hard as they do... that is why he can compete. foreigners are people who train outside of korea. and "Koreans" are people who train in Korea. Therefore, select is a "foreigner" and Huk is a "korean" Koreans are people who are born in Korea..sorry to burst your flawed logic lol. Well, then it is a no-brainer for foreigners to do well. Al lthey have to do, is go to Korea. In that case, there is no Korea vs World logic, cause all you ahve to do is go to Korea and train to be top tier.
Finally he gets it -.-'
Practising in a Korean prohouse is a HUGE advantage. Compare to say, Dimaga, who's sitting at hime, not really feeling to play and does something else.
In the practise house the same thing is happening to HuK, but then MC walks up to him and tells him to play some games with him. Plus they have laid out schedules pretty much. Atleast for the actual team members I'm pretty sure.
The thing is that it's a huge investment going there, and you'll be missing alot of tournaments in Eu and NA while being there, so on the short term it's bad. You will become a beast if you stay a while though.
Compare the Korean and foreigner BW scene. It wasn't even close.
|
On July 10 2011 13:15 Crisco wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 13:12 Sc2Null wrote:On July 10 2011 13:10 Crisco wrote:On July 10 2011 13:07 Utinni wrote:
Why do people say Huk is Korean. He is a foreigner who trains with Koreans... What is not to understand. If you are in the same environment you will adapt. He trains as hard as they do... that is why he can compete. foreigners are people who train outside of korea. and "Koreans" are people who train in Korea. Therefore, select is a "foreigner" and Huk is a "korean" Koreans are people who are born in Korea..sorry to burst your flawed logic lol. Well, then it is a no-brainer for foreigners to do well. Al lthey have to do, is go to Korea. In that case, there is no Korea vs World logic, cause all you ahve to do is go to Korea and train to be top tier. by implying that Huk is a foreigner and Select is a korean, you're basically stating that ethnicity is what makes a player dominant, which is about the furthest thing from true.
Well said. It's the training that makes them dominant, not their nationality.
|
On July 10 2011 13:18 Cryhavoc wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 13:18 openbox1 wrote:
well at least the final isn't a pvp or tvt. Thank god for that. or zvz
It will never be ZvZ. Zergs aren't consistent enough yet to have two get that far in one tournament.
|
On July 10 2011 13:16 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 13:15 jmbthirteen wrote:On July 10 2011 13:10 Serpico wrote:On July 10 2011 13:08 jmbthirteen wrote:On July 10 2011 13:06 Serpico wrote:On July 10 2011 13:04 InvalidID wrote:On July 10 2011 13:00 eYeball wrote:On July 10 2011 12:58 KimJongChill wrote:
Sen is clearly the best foreigner, and would probably be in the top 5 zergs in Korea as well. I really only see Nestea better than him, and maybe Losira and DRG. Wow, I'm a Sen fan now @_@"" I can see that. But Losira, DRG and Nestea are all better than sen. Clearly the best foreigner? Maybe the best foreign Zerg, but Huk has clearly established himself as the top foreigner at the moment. No, huk isn't the best foreigner at all. I'd take dimaga/throzain/sen/naniwa/idra before huk because they've been much more consistent. Really? How so? Because results over a long period of time is what separates you in starcraft....it's a marathon not a sprint. It's more like tennis or golf because there's so many events and few players can win consistently. He just isn't in as many as those guys. Thorzain won TSL but hasn't made much noise in anything else. What the hell has Dimaga done lately? Idra hasn't been tearing it up much either. He's posted decent results, but DH and HSC3 weren't too good. Sen does always do well, but so does Huk. Naniwa seems more consistent because he is in more events, but I don't think he is better than Huk considering Huk just won two tournaments Naniwa was in. Huk just won two rather large tournaments. Thats more than what those guys can say. Huk just doesn't play in as many as them so he seems like he isn't as consistent. If you dont play in more and he's only now won games in code S how are people supposed to give him the benefit of the doubt before he started winning?
But we are talking about Code S. Something none of those guys are in. One game in code S is harder than the finals in MLG before Koreans were invited. And he did fight his way up from Code A too. Thats not easy. He did decent at assembly, decent at MLG Dallas, was advancing up in GSL and then won DH, HSC3 and now in round of 16 in Code S. He has done far more than Dimaga/Idra/Naniwa/Thorzain/Sen this year.
|
On July 10 2011 13:17 Turbo.Tactics wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 13:12 Dommk wrote:On July 10 2011 13:04 Turbo.Tactics wrote:On July 10 2011 13:01 Condor Hero wrote:On July 10 2011 13:00 Turbo.Tactics wrote:
Can't believe I actually rely on a Terran whiping MC's butt... sad day for Zerg -.- dude if anyone can take out mc there its a korean terran. korean terrans are just scary as shit in general. Yeah sure but the fact that I have to trust on Koriterrans because Zergs aren't able to handle it is a disgrace... You have the best Protoss in the world arguable facing a good Zerg but who isn't the same skill level as him, but MC still had some tough games and should have lost if Sen didn't make so many Broods, yet you passively cry about balance? Imagine if that was NesTea or DRG playing, MC would have got rolled. ZvP feels like its favored towards Zerg, the best Toss right now shouldn't be sweating it against anyone other than the best Zergs really Don't be silly. Sen is one of the best Zergs out there and had it in him to take games off MC in a solid manner. Perhaps not on the same skill level as MC but I don't dare to compare their skilllvl based on the requirements of Zergs vs Tossers in general.
But the fact of the matter is, he ISN'T the best, NesTea and DRG are easily a LOT better than him and MC was barely eeking out wins. He should have lost in reality but Sen snarfed it by making too many Broodlords.
Just imagine DRG or NesTea playing, MC doesn't look like he can even stand a chance.
|
Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 13:17 Serpico wrote:
Lol "all he had to his name was MLG", what about the big fat "Code S". Until another foreigner can prove that they can compete on the GSL Code S level, then Huk will remain, in my eyes at least, the top foreign player. Jinro was for awhile, but he has since sadly fallen off. If just being good enough for code S means you're the best foreigner...I think you simply overestimate code S by leap and bounds or think huk is superman. I wouldn't take him in a bo7 against sen/dimaga/naniwa/thorzain.
Thats why he beat Naniwa in a Bo7 with a -1 game, 4-2, 4-1 in actual games played.  I think you really underestimate how strong code S players are, did you not see how code A/S players wiped the floor this weekend, and at dreamhack, and at MLG.
|
On July 10 2011 13:18 Cryhavoc wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 13:18 openbox1 wrote:
well at least the final isn't a pvp or tvt. Thank god for that. or zvz
or RvR
|
On July 10 2011 13:16 Dommk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 13:13 Turbo.Tactics wrote:On July 10 2011 13:10 flowSthead wrote:On July 10 2011 13:04 Turbo.Tactics wrote:On July 10 2011 13:01 Condor Hero wrote:On July 10 2011 13:00 Turbo.Tactics wrote:
Can't believe I actually rely on a Terran whiping MC's butt... sad day for Zerg -.- dude if anyone can take out mc there its a korean terran. korean terrans are just scary as shit in general. Yeah sure but the fact that I have to trust on Koriterrans because Zergs aren't able to handle it is a disgrace... So Losira at MLG doesn't count for anything? Or the fact that MC is actually really good and the majority of the 16 spots were Zergs? Makes it even worst tbh. The Zergs that know lategame compositions get cheesed early, the ones that know macro style multiple harrass midgame antics get to lategame and throw it away. It's just frustrating to watch and read about how great MC plays... I am not saying he is getting free wins...all I'm saying is he shouldn't win 3 v 5 base against any Zerg that knows how to play lategame Zerg. God, you are arrogant. He is the _best_ Protoss int he world right now. It is ridiculous that you are stipulating that Zerg should just get an auto win because they manage to get 5bases.
And you are a fanboy if you say MC should've won it because he is the best Tosser. He was behind tremendously and got a freewin because Sen didn't care about his armycomp. It was his game to lose and he did.
|
On July 10 2011 13:18 djcube wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 13:12 Sc2Null wrote:On July 10 2011 13:10 Crisco wrote:On July 10 2011 13:07 Utinni wrote:
Why do people say Huk is Korean. He is a foreigner who trains with Koreans... What is not to understand. If you are in the same environment you will adapt. He trains as hard as they do... that is why he can compete. foreigners are people who train outside of korea. and "Koreans" are people who train in Korea. Therefore, select is a "foreigner" and Huk is a "korean" Koreans are people who are born in Korea..sorry to burst your flawed logic lol. Why are people denying this? Did you guys not notice how he put the two terms in quotes? It's been like this since bw and carried over.
Carried over?..by whom? forum trolls?
|
On July 10 2011 13:14 drew-chan wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 13:12 Ocedic wrote:On July 10 2011 13:10 deadjawa wrote:On July 10 2011 13:08 Ocedic wrote:On July 10 2011 13:06 Euronyme wrote:On July 10 2011 13:04 Moonwrath wrote:On July 10 2011 13:02 Shellshock1122 wrote:On July 10 2011 13:01 Medrea wrote:
I understood every word MC said and every point he was trying to get across.
I can't even say that for a LOT of inner city Americans. His english is really improving. I like that he is making the effort to do it on his own, just like how Jinro learned Korean. I guess Huk said he is trying to learn Korean too, but he's not very good at it or something It's an incredibly difficult language for native English speakers. It's SO different. Wouldn't it be just as hard for Swedish people? Asian languages are not as hard as people make them out to be. The truth is that ALL languages are hard to learn. Asian languages might be slightly different, but like all other languages it's a matter of practice and application. Category III: Languages which are quite difficult for native English speakers88 weeks (2200 class hours)(about half that time preferably spent studying in-country)Arabic Cantonese Japanese KoreanMandarin Mongolian Taiwanese (Hokkien Min Nan) Wu Did I say it was easy? If you think learning any foreign language you have zero exposure to is easy, then by all means go pick up German, Italian, Latin, whatever and see how 'easy' it is. I said all languages are tough and take time. I speak 4 from that list, not counting 2 more... But I would say that the hardest to learn would be Mandarin from those that I speak.
just because it's easy for you doesn't make it easy. Most people are not linguistically "talented" and having learning any language, regardless. My MCAT scores are in the 99.1 percentile but despite studying spanish for 5 years, I still have trouble putting it into use.
|
On July 10 2011 13:16 ZergBonjwa wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 13:12 Medrea wrote:On July 10 2011 13:10 deadjawa wrote:On July 10 2011 13:08 Ocedic wrote:On July 10 2011 13:06 Euronyme wrote:On July 10 2011 13:04 Moonwrath wrote:On July 10 2011 13:02 Shellshock1122 wrote:On July 10 2011 13:01 Medrea wrote:
I understood every word MC said and every point he was trying to get across.
I can't even say that for a LOT of inner city Americans. His english is really improving. I like that he is making the effort to do it on his own, just like how Jinro learned Korean. I guess Huk said he is trying to learn Korean too, but he's not very good at it or something It's an incredibly difficult language for native English speakers. It's SO different. Wouldn't it be just as hard for Swedish people? Asian languages are not as hard as people make them out to be. The truth is that ALL languages are hard to learn. Asian languages might be slightly different, but like all other languages it's a matter of practice and application. Category III: Languages which are quite difficult for native English speakers88 weeks (2200 class hours)(about half that time preferably spent studying in-country)Arabic Cantonese Japanese KoreanMandarin Mongolian Taiwanese (Hokkien Min Nan) Wu You know Ive seen this elsewhere but I know Japanese is not very hard to learn. The entire language rests on what? 43 syllables was it? English alphabet alone is 26. Im told once all 43 syllables are learned its just a memory game. Writing it though? Forget it, Asian literacy for there own languages is terrible so I have no chance on earth. yea and about 2000 modern kanji GL.
Fuck Kanji. That's written form. Not even the natives use Kanji outside of fairly formal writing. The literacy rates of Kanji is awful and if you watch any anime they poke fun at how not understandable it is all the time. I dont know outside of Japan but inside of it Hirigana and Katakana I think are like the only two written forms that are particularly used.
Furigana is a new form which I think is Kanji with those small Hirigana characters describing the ambiguities between the Kanji.
I should prob double check on wiki though. Thank god we live in this time.
|
On July 10 2011 13:12 Ocedic wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 13:12 puzzl wrote:On July 10 2011 13:08 Ocedic wrote:On July 10 2011 13:06 Euronyme wrote:On July 10 2011 13:04 Moonwrath wrote:On July 10 2011 13:02 Shellshock1122 wrote:On July 10 2011 13:01 Medrea wrote:
I understood every word MC said and every point he was trying to get across.
I can't even say that for a LOT of inner city Americans. His english is really improving. I like that he is making the effort to do it on his own, just like how Jinro learned Korean. I guess Huk said he is trying to learn Korean too, but he's not very good at it or something It's an incredibly difficult language for native English speakers. It's SO different. Wouldn't it be just as hard for Swedish people? Asian languages are not as hard as people make them out to be. The truth is that ALL languages are hard to learn. Asian languages might be slightly different, but like all other languages it's a matter of practice and application. Spoken like someone who has zero knowledge of linguistics. I speak Chinese, Japanese, Spanish, English and some German. You're an idiot.
I believe you because I believe anything that anyone ever says, always.
|
On July 10 2011 13:16 Indrium wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 13:11 NotSorry wrote:On July 10 2011 13:11 EndOfTime88 wrote:On July 10 2011 13:10 Ocedic wrote:On July 10 2011 13:06 Serpico wrote:On July 10 2011 13:04 InvalidID wrote:On July 10 2011 13:00 eYeball wrote:On July 10 2011 12:58 KimJongChill wrote:
Sen is clearly the best foreigner, and would probably be in the top 5 zergs in Korea as well. I really only see Nestea better than him, and maybe Losira and DRG. Wow, I'm a Sen fan now @_@"" I can see that. But Losira, DRG and Nestea are all better than sen. Clearly the best foreigner? Maybe the best foreign Zerg, but Huk has clearly established himself as the top foreigner at the moment. No, huk isn't the best foreigner at all. I'd take dimaga/throzain/sen/naniwa/idra before huk because they've been much more consistent. Idra consistent? Is that a joke? Huk won Dreamhack, HSC3 and is doing fantastic in Code S. Yeah, what a sloppy, inconsistent player. I'd consider Idra the most consistent of that group. If by consistent you mean consistently failing before the top I feel like this is a product of the stigma where "if you don't win anything you aren't good," which is complete nonsense. Sen hasn't won a gold since the beta, yet he just stood toe to toe with MC, which makes him pretty damn good. To condemn people because they aren't winning golds regularly is pretty shortsighted.
Unfortunately that's what the majority of people do on this site... puke up results and acting like they prove a point instead of looking at gameplay
|
On July 10 2011 13:17 BryanSC wrote:
Consistency, linguistics, and how people view the term "korean" will dominate the next 50 pages of this thread.
Quite indeed, sir.
|
On July 10 2011 13:14 oriox wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 13:12 Sc2Null wrote:On July 10 2011 13:10 Crisco wrote:On July 10 2011 13:07 Utinni wrote:
Why do people say Huk is Korean. He is a foreigner who trains with Koreans... What is not to understand. If you are in the same environment you will adapt. He trains as hard as they do... that is why he can compete. foreigners are people who train outside of korea. and "Koreans" are people who train in Korea. Therefore, select is a "foreigner" and Huk is a "korean" Koreans are people who are born in Korea..sorry to burst your flawed logic lol. it's quite obvious he is referring to a term "Korean" as used in Starcraft to associate skill and experience levels, not national origin.
The term is silly. You can say he is Korean trained... It still doesn't change the fact he is a foreigner. Like someone was saying earlier. You have soccer players playing in different countries... are they spanish since they play in barcelona? No they are a foreigner to that country no matter what.
Calling them a term they are not does not make it so.
Huk is American/Canadian starcraft 2 player training in Korea.
|
huk is the best foreigner.
when you look at his gsl preformance yeah he hasent done well but look who he played.
he lost in code A in the ro8 to losira who went on to win it and has really good ZvP
he lost wc to MVP who went on to win it, lost 2-1 btw.
he lost to inca and july in may gsl. inca has one of the best PvP in the world, and losing to july is respectable.
he lost to polt in the super tournament who went on to win it.
any protoss besides Mc and maybe Alicia would have these exact same results.
plus he won dream hack.
|
On July 10 2011 13:14 Noocta wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 13:12 Dommk wrote:On July 10 2011 13:04 Turbo.Tactics wrote:On July 10 2011 13:01 Condor Hero wrote:On July 10 2011 13:00 Turbo.Tactics wrote:
Can't believe I actually rely on a Terran whiping MC's butt... sad day for Zerg -.- dude if anyone can take out mc there its a korean terran. korean terrans are just scary as shit in general. Yeah sure but the fact that I have to trust on Koriterrans because Zergs aren't able to handle it is a disgrace... You have the best Protoss in the world arguable facing a good Zerg but who isn't the same skill level as him, but MC still had some tough games and should have lost if Sen didn't make so many Broods, yet you passively cry about balance? Imagine if that was NesTea or DRG playing, MC would have got rolled. ZvP feels like its favored towards Zerg, the best Toss right now shouldn't be sweating it against anyone other than the best Zergs really Can you seriously say that the level of SEn play today wasn't in the same boat than Losira or Nestea ZvP ? These games were insane.
Sen kinda cheesed every game. Hidden expansions, taking super risky gold expos, etc. He took a risk in every game that he played and got awesome advantages through them. I wouldnt say he outplayed MC at all but rather he just had a great game plan coming in. You saw how MC eventually adjusted to that in the final game by taking a fast 3rd instead of continued aggression with stargate units. Its clear when all things equal, MC dominated. You never saw him lose actual battle engagements and his micro was clearly superior and to a lesser extent macro as well.
|
On July 10 2011 13:18 Cryhavoc wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 13:18 openbox1 wrote:
well at least the final isn't a pvp or tvt. Thank god for that. or zvz
NO one ever even think that could one day happen ;-)
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
