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On February 12 2011 04:16 Asha` wrote:
I think I'm forced to conclude that Sjow tanked this because he's now going to qualify for TSL 3 tomorrow instead, and he's thinking long term about the considerably larger prize pool on offer there.
yeaaahhh...
>_>
Yeah that's probably it! 
Lets just focus on the tournament now, I feel like we have established what is what regarding Sjow.
Looking forward to seeing Ret play, it feels like it's been forever.
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On February 12 2011 04:08 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2011 04:00 kyla wrote:On February 12 2011 03:55 Asha` wrote:On February 12 2011 03:45 kyla wrote:On February 12 2011 03:41 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:On February 12 2011 03:36 ChickenLips wrote:On February 12 2011 03:31 Enervate wrote:On February 12 2011 03:23 butch wrote:
That's just the state of the game (pun intended), everyone can win a big tournament, upsets are bound to happen, it all depends on who has a good/bad day.
ul for sjow, hopefully he can turn it around @ IEM I'm actually surprised and glad at how few upsets there have been. The only ones really are Sjow and Darkforce. Well, they might've been upsets to the public eye but IMO, both players have pretty huge flaws in their gameplay and I'm not surprised that they got booted in the groupstage. Darkforce I just think is a plain bad player, which is not a problem in and of itself but the fact that he plays Zerg, almost guarantees that he won't reach top4 of any given tournament. Sjow, I think is a great guy but his approach to scouting and adapting to his opponent is a big gaping hole in his gameplay. Zealot backdoor rush you can scout and adapt to very easily, and im not even talking about the whole SCV scout thing, he generally prefers to do his thing instead of checking out what his opponent does and then abusing that. Ok Nostradamus the best tournament player in Europe losing to two lesser known players is not a surprise to you. He is the most consistent player there is based on results. His style and skill have proven to be more consistent than any other player in Europe.Anyone can lose. Play some poker and you'll understand this concept better. the best tournament player in europe XD o-kay Highest earning foreign player kind of shows how consistent he is, not to mention I believe he still has the best win ratio in finals. are you the most consistent player for winning the most money because of the IEM or are you rather consistent because you win most tourneys? by the way.Naama,earned more because of DH so hes the most consistent player now? hmmm. whatever.lets stop that and lets just watch the upcoming matches  SjoW has over 2 pages of top 3 finishes in TLPD http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/1777_SjoWKas has a little over 1 http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/1693_Kas#tblt-1655-1-1-DESCWhite-Ra has less than 1 full page http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/1148_White-RaSo, yeah, SjoW is the most consistent. SjoW is also above them all in tournament winnings: http://ehcg.djgamblore.com./index.php
Not that I really want to argue about it that much, but wouldn't better metric be number of tournament wins/tournament participations.
EDIT: Or weighted by the placement.
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Sjow just has alot of really, really safe builds. Like in TvT, when he does a hellion drop. He will make a turret at around 6:45. With no scouting information. Yes he has low APM. But his army movements in like TvT are usually brilliant. He just thinks alot more ingame. I wonder how good he would be if he could be in a progaming house.
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Cool Qxc interview.
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I hate it, when my internet goes to super slow mode every day at about 8 pm. Hope its faster again, when the stream continues.
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On February 12 2011 04:11 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2011 03:58 ParasitJonte wrote:
You're almost as consistent in your defense of SjoW. Everytime someone talks down on him you smack them in the face :D. You must've really been impressed by some of his games or something >_<.
I agree with you of course, just think it's kind of funny. I can't help that Sjow gets so much shit despite winning this many tournaments. I think it's more of a situation where Sjow has a lot of haters no reason at all that are all bringing up the most ridiculous stuff. You don't see people posting like this about White-Ra, Kas or Morrow and if they did you'd see me responding the same way. People can't just go around and make shit up in order to discredit a player you dislike. People need a little less hate and a little more love. I've never talked to the guy fwiw nor does he particularly impress me more than other top players.
Certainly most people around here aren't justifying their dislike of Sjow very well, but there is a valid reason for disliking him as a player. That is to say, his play style, which shouldn't be as successful as it is given the mechanics he has to back it up. It speaks poorly of the game, in my opinion and the sooner he is forced to adapt and work on his mechanics, the better. Goody's success if even more disappointing. The players you named have better mechanics or are more creative and interesting. I suppose you can argue his decision making is just so good, but as a spectator his games aren't fun to watch.
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make sure ret knows he has to finish first to skip huk
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On February 12 2011 04:18 mcc wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2011 04:08 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On February 12 2011 04:00 kyla wrote:On February 12 2011 03:55 Asha` wrote:On February 12 2011 03:45 kyla wrote:On February 12 2011 03:41 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:On February 12 2011 03:36 ChickenLips wrote:On February 12 2011 03:31 Enervate wrote:On February 12 2011 03:23 butch wrote:
That's just the state of the game (pun intended), everyone can win a big tournament, upsets are bound to happen, it all depends on who has a good/bad day.
ul for sjow, hopefully he can turn it around @ IEM I'm actually surprised and glad at how few upsets there have been. The only ones really are Sjow and Darkforce. Well, they might've been upsets to the public eye but IMO, both players have pretty huge flaws in their gameplay and I'm not surprised that they got booted in the groupstage. Darkforce I just think is a plain bad player, which is not a problem in and of itself but the fact that he plays Zerg, almost guarantees that he won't reach top4 of any given tournament. Sjow, I think is a great guy but his approach to scouting and adapting to his opponent is a big gaping hole in his gameplay. Zealot backdoor rush you can scout and adapt to very easily, and im not even talking about the whole SCV scout thing, he generally prefers to do his thing instead of checking out what his opponent does and then abusing that. Ok Nostradamus the best tournament player in Europe losing to two lesser known players is not a surprise to you. He is the most consistent player there is based on results. His style and skill have proven to be more consistent than any other player in Europe.Anyone can lose. Play some poker and you'll understand this concept better. the best tournament player in europe XD o-kay Highest earning foreign player kind of shows how consistent he is, not to mention I believe he still has the best win ratio in finals. are you the most consistent player for winning the most money because of the IEM or are you rather consistent because you win most tourneys? by the way.Naama,earned more because of DH so hes the most consistent player now? hmmm. whatever.lets stop that and lets just watch the upcoming matches SjoW has over 2 pages of top 3 finishes in TLPD http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/1777_SjoWKas has a little over 1 http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/1693_Kas#tblt-1655-1-1-DESCWhite-Ra has less than 1 full page http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/1148_White-RaSo, yeah, SjoW is the most consistent. SjoW is also above them all in tournament winnings: http://ehcg.djgamblore.com./index.php Not that I really want to argue about it that much, but wouldn't better metric be number of tournament wins/tournament participations.
No. You could have one player showing at 3 tournaments and wining all 3. And then have a second guy who plays 40 tournaments, and wins 15 of them. I would still think the second one is kinda better player.
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Shoutout to Ret from Melbourne, Australia. I got up at 6am to watch you roll these guys good luck mate :D
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Qxc is his own favourite player. Badass. ^__^
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Russian Federation20 Posts
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On February 12 2011 04:22 Zholistic wrote:
Shoutout to Ret from Melbourne, Australia. I got up at 6am to watch you roll these guys good luck mate :D
Shout out from Adelaide..... Stayed up all night! :D
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On February 12 2011 04:11 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2011 03:58 ParasitJonte wrote:
You're almost as consistent in your defense of SjoW. Everytime someone talks down on him you smack them in the face :D. You must've really been impressed by some of his games or something >_<.
I agree with you of course, just think it's kind of funny. I can't help that Sjow gets so much shit despite winning this many tournaments. I think it's more of a situation where Sjow has a lot of haters no reason at all that are all bringing up the most ridiculous stuff. You don't see people posting like this about White-Ra, Kas or Morrow and if they did you'd see me responding the same way. People can't just go around and make shit up in order to discredit a player you dislike. People need a little less hate and a little more love. I've never talked to the guy fwiw nor does he particularly impress me more than other top players.
Well, I wouldn't say for no reason. First thing that I recall which put him off for me was that stupid bit of collusion that he was planning with Morrow for that tournament series, and his arrogant rationalization of it. Then recently there was that whole business with the pokeridol finals, which I didn't personally care that much about, but apparently pissed off a lot of other spectators. He may have a very solid playstyle, but there's just something about him that I can't find myself wanting to cheer for him at all.
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When people in Spain play basketball, do they call the net the "net" or do they use the Spanish word? I would bet they use the Spanish word... and I'm not sure why sc2 is different.
There was a time when german unit names were used in the german scbw scene (e.g. Schleicher for lurker), it pretty much stopped when the scene got more international.[/QUOTE]
I agree on the unit names that sound awkward in german. But Khaldor always tries to use englich terms when there is a perfectly good german word, for example for
fight-kampf
game-spiel
income-einkommen
usw.
He probably think he sounds more cool that way.
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Nice to see that Seinis took Sjow out. =) Btw, you all know he's Naama's brother, right? I'd imagine he has had some nice practice against Terran.
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On February 12 2011 04:21 Odoakar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2011 04:18 mcc wrote:On February 12 2011 04:08 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On February 12 2011 04:00 kyla wrote:On February 12 2011 03:55 Asha` wrote:On February 12 2011 03:45 kyla wrote:On February 12 2011 03:41 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:On February 12 2011 03:36 ChickenLips wrote:On February 12 2011 03:31 Enervate wrote:On February 12 2011 03:23 butch wrote:
That's just the state of the game (pun intended), everyone can win a big tournament, upsets are bound to happen, it all depends on who has a good/bad day.
ul for sjow, hopefully he can turn it around @ IEM I'm actually surprised and glad at how few upsets there have been. The only ones really are Sjow and Darkforce. Well, they might've been upsets to the public eye but IMO, both players have pretty huge flaws in their gameplay and I'm not surprised that they got booted in the groupstage. Darkforce I just think is a plain bad player, which is not a problem in and of itself but the fact that he plays Zerg, almost guarantees that he won't reach top4 of any given tournament. Sjow, I think is a great guy but his approach to scouting and adapting to his opponent is a big gaping hole in his gameplay. Zealot backdoor rush you can scout and adapt to very easily, and im not even talking about the whole SCV scout thing, he generally prefers to do his thing instead of checking out what his opponent does and then abusing that. Ok Nostradamus the best tournament player in Europe losing to two lesser known players is not a surprise to you. He is the most consistent player there is based on results. His style and skill have proven to be more consistent than any other player in Europe.Anyone can lose. Play some poker and you'll understand this concept better. the best tournament player in europe XD o-kay Highest earning foreign player kind of shows how consistent he is, not to mention I believe he still has the best win ratio in finals. are you the most consistent player for winning the most money because of the IEM or are you rather consistent because you win most tourneys? by the way.Naama,earned more because of DH so hes the most consistent player now? hmmm. whatever.lets stop that and lets just watch the upcoming matches SjoW has over 2 pages of top 3 finishes in TLPD http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/1777_SjoWKas has a little over 1 http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/1693_Kas#tblt-1655-1-1-DESCWhite-Ra has less than 1 full page http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/1148_White-RaSo, yeah, SjoW is the most consistent. SjoW is also above them all in tournament winnings: http://ehcg.djgamblore.com./index.php Not that I really want to argue about it that much, but wouldn't better metric be number of tournament wins/tournament participations. No. You could have one player showing at 3 tournaments and wining all 3. And then have a second guy who plays 40 tournaments, and wins 15 of them. I would still think the second one is kinda better player.
Why ? Also what if those 3 are GSL, MLG nationals, IEM global. And those 15 are some small cups.
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On February 12 2011 04:24 Astans wrote:Show nested quote +
When people in Spain play basketball, do they call the net the "net" or do they use the Spanish word? I would bet they use the Spanish word... and I'm not sure why sc2 is different.
There was a time when german unit names were used in the german scbw scene (e.g. Schleicher for lurker), it pretty much stopped when the scene got more international. I agree on the unit names that sound awkward in german. But Khaldor always tries to use englich terms when there is a perfectly good german word, for example for fight-kampf game-spiel income-einkommen usw. He probably think he sounds more cool that way.
The bonus is that it makes his casting way more accessible to anyone that doesn't speak German, and therefore gets more viewers (at least for today). I know enough to understand these small things but it's still way easier to understand when he uses so many English words because I don't have to overload my brain with unnecessary translation work. 
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On February 12 2011 04:25 Shikyo wrote:
Nice to see that Seinis took Sjow out. =) Btw, you all know he's Naama's brother, right? I'd imagine he has had some nice practice against Terran.
Who is funkay then?
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On February 12 2011 04:18 nam nam wrote:Yeah that's probably it! Lets just focus on the tournament now, I feel like we have established what is what regarding Sjow. Looking forward to seeing Ret play, it feels like it's been forever.
yeah i cant wait to see ret !!!! hopefully he gets 1st in his group to avoid huk =)
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On February 12 2011 04:21 syllogism wrote:
Certainly most people around here aren't justifying their dislike of Sjow very well, but there is a valid reason for disliking him as a player. That is to say, his play style, which shouldn't be as successful as it is given the mechanics he has to back it up. It speaks poorly of the game, in my opinion and the sooner he is forced to adapt and work on his mechanics, the better. Goody's success if even more disappointing. The players you named have better mechanics or are more creative and interesting.
You don't have to like the guy. But saying he shouldn't be successful, like you determine the formula to success?
RTS is a mix of strategy micro and macro. If you feel his macro is bad then that means he is doing better than others at strategy and micro. Saying he shouldn't be successful is exactly what is wrong with all the hate. Some players will be better at micro/macro (Huk), others at strategy (TLO). Sjow being good at micro/strategy and less at macro doesn't mean he shouldn't be successful.
It doesn't speak poorly of the game either. BW has always been like this in the past 10 years. It means player styles will have more personality.
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EPT
