Liquid'Tyler vs. IdrA Gosucoaching.com Showmatch - Page 40

On November 03 2010 21:35 Highways wrote:
Time to move out of EG?

He could've joined virtually any team and choose EG?? I do not understand.

Well, with the irreparable rift he's drawn with oGs due to his BM on Korean Ladder, TL is probably not an option for him anymore.

On November 03 2010 21:49 syllogism wrote:
I love how many morons draw conclusions based on one match while conveniently disregarding others. Apparently as soon as someone loses once he is overrated.

On November 03 2010 21:35 Highways wrote:
Time to move out of EG?

He could've joined virtually any team and choose EG?? I do not understand.

On November 03 2010 21:49 syllogism wrote:


Haha right

On November 03 2010 21:51 Kraznaya wrote:


Ironic then that Idra's most ardent defenders and fanboys are the newest crop of posters on TL, of the SC2 generation

On November 03 2010 21:54 syllogism wrote:

I care very little about Idra, I'm simply against moronic arguments. Nice nonsensical statement by the way, as if regdate had anything to do with anything and even if it did, it's in no way "ironic".

On November 03 2010 21:57 Kraznaya wrote:


I was implying how Idra's fanboys tend to judge him on a smaller body of work than his detractors, and therefore it's ironic how his fanboys are now complaining how his detractors are only judging him by one game, when clearly they're not

On November 03 2010 22:00 syllogism wrote:
Regardless, his success or lack of it in BW isn't really that useful data point at this time as most current "top" korean players weren't succesful either.

On November 03 2010 19:39 Doraemon.doraemon wrote:


if the most accomplished foreigner is overrated then who isn't sigh... such harsh judgment from 1 showmatch lol... even the fruitdealer lost like a newb cuz he didn't make units in time... people are so mean

On November 03 2010 19:42 Laggy wrote:


Have you seen IdrA's U.S ladder results? He has like 60 losses and 160 or so wins. I highly doubt he is Overrated. Quite frankly I think that you just don't like him or how he BMs players so you call him overrated. Ro34 in GSL1 16 in GSL2 winner of KoTB MLG 1st place. I don't know man but I wouldn't call that overrated, there are times when players have bad days. Also he is playing with a huge amount of lag I bet he lives in korea playing games on the other side of the earth.

On November 03 2010 21:11 Brutus wrote:


Clueless guy is clueless.
Tunneling and burrow is a big investment. 350/350, just when lair finishes is HUGE, considering a roach is just 25 gas. Also, they take very long to complete. You need speed for your roaches to be able to attack. Roaches with speed are faster than stalkers, and can kite zlots all day. That is the first upgrade you need. You can't research tunneling claws while upgrading speed.

Considering the attack begins when lair just completes, you can't support, and most importantly, you don't have the time.

On November 03 2010 19:55 Kraznaya wrote:


Idra was playing in America, as he's here now for MLG Dallas. The sheer number of Idra fans blaming nonexistant lag for his piss poor performance is quite hilarious, though.

Anyway... are you seriously trying to use ladder results to prove that someone is or isn't overrated? That's the most laughable concept I've entertained in a while, and I frequent forums with Idra fans.

Idra is overrated; just look at the polls for this match or the TL poll on the right sidebar showing that the majority of users on this forum believe him to be a better player than he truly is. Statistically and by tournament performance, Idra may be the King of Foreigners, but in the wider scope of the Starcraft scene, it means absolutely nothing. Idra is a mechanical player without any natural talent or gamesense who thrives in lesser environments by the practice he puts in. To hype him to any level beyond that is a complete mischaracterization caused by undue fanboyism.

This is bullshit. Why is Idra overrated? Just because he hasn't won the GSL twice?

First let me get this straight, Idra is very good. Everyone that denies that has the be a hater. He has won almost every foreigner tournament, so it's stupid to even begin about ladder. He is also the only foreigner to actually do something in the GSL.

Yeah sure, he didn't win the GSL, but he is one of the few top players that participated in both tournaments, and advanced a few rounds. Even the Fruitdealer went out early, tester didn't qualify, ogstop, clide, maka, there are so many upsets. These things happen. And let's not forget how we went out.

To say he means nothing in the starcraft, just because he lost 1 showmatch to another extremelty talented player is stupid. You shouldn't use 1 showmatch to determine if Idra is good. Get that list of the things he participated in and how far he went in them, that will assure you that Idra is a damn good player.

On November 03 2010 21:25 Kraznaya wrote:


Yes, he's rated higher than he should be by the foreigner community here, which apparently expected him to be better than BoxeR and Nada. Rating Idra higher than BoxeR or Nada is overrating him in ridiculous terms, I don't see how this point is debatable at all.

Sure, Idra has sustained himself to mediocre showings in both GSL tournaments because of his efficient macro style backed by his solid handling of mechanics, but that doesn't mean Idra will ever amount of anything. Idra isn't a "damn good player" unless you're judging him on relative terms, against people who practice much less than him and who have dedicated much less time than him.

Today, Nony showed us again that Idra severely lacks talent and game sense, and what he makes up for in talent with raw mechanical dedication can't sustain him forever. I expect his finish in this past GSL to be his high water mark; soon, Idra will be competing against Koreans who will finally have put as much time into the game as him (keep in mind he's one of the few competing in the GSL who has played since beta started), who will be able to match his mindless dedication to practice and mechanics (which foreigners like Nony cannot keep up with) with actual talent, which Idra has painfully reminded us he lacks over the course of his Starcraft career.

And at that point, I expect hilarity to ensue.

It's a shame that actually talented foreigners who can think like Nony and White-Ra have lives outside Starcraft and are unwilling to dedicate themselves fully to the just playing the game, but maybe that's just a side effect of having a brain. Having a life.

On November 03 2010 22:06 Kraznaya wrote:


Do you honestly believe this will remain true over the coming months? The current flurries of former BW pro success (Cool, ITR, mvp, Boxer, Nada) will only grow and overshadow the remaining players over the next year as more players begin to come out of the woodwork. And that's not even considering the impact of current A-teamers ostensibly in "peak form" possibly switching, which Idra will have to match - he's currently playing in what is the equivalent of a 45+ tournament in regular sports

On November 03 2010 22:14 syllogism wrote:

Obviously that's possible, or even very likely, but once again you could say the same about many other current "top" players. It's pretty pointless to speculate like that or at least use that as evidence someone is overrated. Indeed, players are always rated based on their present condition in relation to competition.

On November 03 2010 21:25 Kraznaya wrote:


Yes, he's rated higher than he should be by the foreigner community here, which apparently expected him to be better than BoxeR and Nada. Rating Idra higher than BoxeR or Nada is overrating him in ridiculous terms, I don't see how this point is debatable at all.

Sure, Idra has sustained himself to mediocre showings in both GSL tournaments because of his efficient macro style backed by his solid handling of mechanics, but that doesn't mean Idra will ever amount of anything. Idra isn't a "damn good player" unless you're judging him on relative terms, against people who practice much less than him and who have dedicated much less time than him.

Today, Nony showed us again that Idra severely lacks talent and game sense, and what he makes up for in talent with raw mechanical dedication can't sustain him forever. I expect his finish in this past GSL to be his high water mark; soon, Idra will be competing against Koreans who will finally have put as much time into the game as him (keep in mind he's one of the few competing in the GSL who has played since beta started), who will be able to match his mindless dedication to practice and mechanics (which foreigners like Nony cannot keep up with) with actual talent, which Idra has painfully reminded us he lacks over the course of his Starcraft career.

And at that point, I expect hilarity to ensue.

It's a shame that actually talented foreigners who can think like Nony and White-Ra have lives outside Starcraft and are unwilling to dedicate themselves fully to the just playing the game, but maybe that's just a side effect of having a brain. Having a life.

On November 03 2010 22:20 Kraznaya wrote:


Even on relative terms he's not exactly deserving of the hyperbole his fanboys give him of best in the world

I don't think any serious analyst actually thought Idra winning a GSL was a plausible outcome, and he hasn't really come that close

On November 03 2010 22:00 syllogism wrote:

It's entirely reasonable to consider him overrated, and he likely is to some extent, but people tend to not support these statements very well and as such they tend to be just meaningless drivel. Regardless, his success or lack of it in BW isn't really that useful data point at this time as most current "top" korean players weren't succesful either.

Moreover, I was specifically referring to people who used these games as evidence Idra's ZvP is trash.